Why are heaven and hell the only two options?

[Los_Angeles]

Greetings, I have not posted on CAF for quite awhile now and I am back to ask this question that has been nagging me for quite some time because nobody I have asked can give a good answer for it.

According to the Catholic Church, I will ulitmately end up for all eternity in one of two places: Heaven or Hell.

Why aren’t there more than two options?

Based on knowing that my very existence carries with it the possibility of eternal damnation, my reason concluded that I should have the choice to be able to choose to have not been created in the first place if a bad decision on my part could lead to eternal damnation.

If what Catholic Church says is true, then there was no option to not have been created in the first place, thus life carries with it the possiblity of going to Heaven or Hell.

According to Catholic doctrine I could make a bad choice and commit a mortal sin and loose my salvation then if I were to die in that state I would go to hell.

Here is another way to put it: (it is not a perfect analogy so please dont take it too far)

One person decides to gamble their money at a casino and can either win money or loose money.

Another person decides not to gamble their money at a casino therefore they cannot win or loose their money at the casino by choice.

Conclusion: Life allows people to choose to not gamble or play the game in the first place.

*Footnote - Once Saved Always Saved is not a solution becuase I ruled out Protestant/Evangelical Chrisitanity a long time ago.

If anything I have said is against the Catholic Church, let it be anthema.

 

[meltzerboy]

Greetings, I have not posted on CAF for quite awhile now and I am back to ask this question that has been nagging me for quite some time because nobody I have asked can give a good answer for it.

According to the Catholic Church, I will ulitmately end up for all eternity in one of two places: Heaven or Hell.

Why aren’t there more than two options?

Based on knowing that my very existence carries with it the possibility of eternal damnation, my reason concluded that I should have the choice to be able to choose to have not been created in the first place if a bad decision on my part could lead to eternal damnation.

If what Catholic Church says is true, then there was no option to not have been created in the first place, thus life carries with it the possiblity of going to Heaven or Hell.

According to Catholic doctrine I could make a bad choice and commit a mortal sin and loose my salvation then if I were to die in that state I would go to hell.

Here is another way to put it: (it is not a perfect analogy so please dont take it too far)

One person decides to gamble their money at a casino and can either win money or loose money.

Another person decides not to gamble their money at a casino therefore they cannot win or loose their money at the casino by choice.

Conclusion: Life allows people to choose to not gamble or play the game in the first place.

*Footnote - Once Saved Always Saved is not a solution becuase I ruled out Protestant/Evangelical Chrisitanity a long time ago.

If anything I have said is against the Catholic Church, let it be anthema.

The possibility of eternal damnation is your own choice based on your free will. It is not G-d’s choice or desire, and, in fact, He continuously encourages you to make the right choice, holding the door open, without, however, directly interfering. Sincere repentance even at the moment of death can absolve you of your mortal sins and have G-d bestow His mercy on your soul. It might, however, be better to partake of the Sacraments before that time and practice faith and charity according to the teachings of the Church. There are no guarantees in life, though, regarding salvation. All are saved through G-d’s grace and mercy.

How’s that for a non-Catholic? Please correct any errors.

 

[SteveGC]

The possibility of eternal damnation is your own choice based on your free will. It is not G-d’s choice or desire, and, in fact, He continuously encourages you to make the right choice, holding the door open, without, however, directly interfering. Sincere repentance even at the moment of death can absolve you of your mortal sins and have G-d bestow His mercy on your soul. It might, however, be better to partake of the Sacraments before that time and practice faith and charity according to the teachings of the Church. There are no guarantees in life, though, regarding salvation. All are saved through G-d’s grace and mercy.

How’s that for a non-Catholic? Please correct any errors.

Pretty darn good

so, we’ll see ya in RCIA?

 

[Little_One0307]

The possibility of eternal damnation is your own choice based on your free will. It is not G-d’s choice or desire, and, in fact, He continuously encourages you to make the right choice, holding the door open, without, however, directly interfering. Sincere repentance even at the moment of death can absolve you of your mortal sins and have G-d bestow His mercy on your soul. It might, however, be better to partake of the Sacraments before that time and practice faith and charity according to the teachings of the Church. There are no guarantees in life, though, regarding salvation. All are saved through G-d’s grace and mercy.

How’s that for a non-Catholic? Please correct any errors.

Wow no mistakes in there. That’s really good. :tiphat: I could not have said it any better.

God bless.

 

[NHInsider]

Greetings, I have not posted on CAF for quite awhile now and I am back to ask this question that has been nagging me for quite some time because nobody I have asked can give a good answer for it.

According to the Catholic Church, I will ulitmately end up for all eternity in one of two places: Heaven or Hell.

Why aren’t there more than two options?

Based on knowing that my very existence carries with it the possibility of eternal damnation, my reason concluded that I should have the choice to be able to choose to have not been created in the first place if a bad decision on my part could lead to eternal damnation.

Hmm. The logical fallacy here is that had you not been created, you would not have existed to make a choice (to be or not be created). Hence, once you have been created, you choose to accept or reject God the Creator’s authority, to live eternally in His Presence or apart from Him.

 

[midori]

If you consider it from the standpoint that heaven is the presence of God, and hell is the absence of God, there’s not really a third option.

 

[Los_Angeles]

The possibility of eternal damnation is your own choice based on your free will. It is not G-d’s choice or desire, and, in fact, He continuously encourages you to make the right choice, holding the door open, without, however, directly interfering. Sincere repentance even at the moment of death can absolve you of your mortal sins and have G-d bestow His mercy on your soul. It might, however, be better to partake of the Sacraments before that time and practice faith and charity according to the teachings of the Church. There are no guarantees in life, though, regarding salvation. All are saved through G-d’s grace and mercy.

How’s that for a non-Catholic? Please correct any errors.

Thank you for your response, and I apologize for the late reply.

However what you stated does not answer the question that I was attempting to get an answer to.

The reason is this: What choice is it if I have only two choices? Why would God create me and put me in that situation in the first place? Why not just not create me in the first place? Some people may believe that the reward for going to heaven is not worth the risk of going to hell.

If anything I have said is against the Catholic Church, let it be anthema.

 

[meltzerboy]

Thank you for your response, and I apologize for the late reply.

However what you stated does not answer the question that I was attempting to get an answer to.

The reason is this: What choice is it if I have only two choices? Why would God create me and put me in that situation in the first place? Why not just not create me in the first place? Some people may believe that the reward for going to heaven is not worth the risk of going to hell.

If anything I have said is against the Catholic Church, let it be anthema.

If you were not created, YOU WOULD NOT HAVE THE OPTION to believe that the reward for going to heaven is not worth the risk of going to hell. In fact, you would not have the option to believe anything; to experience anything, including love, joy, pleasure, pain, sadness, anger, fear; to perceive or learn anything about the earth, the Universe, people, animals, religion, and G-d. You would not have tasted life at all. Life is not something we deserve; it is a gift from G-d, which comes with certain responsibilities, a journey of discovery, and something we should be grateful for. Why wouldn’t anyone want at least the opportunity to experience life? The experience itself can be enjoyed, despite its share of suffering, and is worth it, I think, apart from what may follow. Besides, you are given MORE THAN TWO CHOICES. As I pointed out previously, G-d is always holding the door open for you, giving you the opportunity to pass through. Even if you have failed many times in the past, there is always the chance to atone and do better the next time.

 

[Los_Angeles]

Hmm. The logical fallacy here is that had you not been created, you would not have existed to make a choice (to be or not be created). Hence, once you have been created, you choose to accept or reject God the Creator’s authority, to live eternally in His Presence or apart from Him.

That would be true, but that is not what I am trying to get an answer to.

As far as I am aware, God not allow the possibilty of asking Him to “un-create” yourself after having created you. That was not an option before or after original sin. That option would bypass the possibility of going to heaven or hell at all. You are created whether you like it or not and its either heaven or hell after death.

If anything I have said is against the Catholic Church, let it be anthema.

 

[Los_Angeles]

If you consider it from the standpoint that heaven is the presence of God, and hell is the absence of God, there’s not really a third option.

So before I was born and knew not my existience, you are saying I was in hell?

If anything I have said is against the Catholic Church, let it be anthema.

 

[Los_Angeles]

If you were not created, YOU WOULD NOT HAVE THE OPTION to believe that the reward for going to heaven is not worth the risk of going to hell.

Please see post #9,

If anything I have said is against the Catholic Church, let it be anthema.

 

[Jim_Roberts]

Heaven, Purgatory, and Hell are youir options.

God has given us something to follow, and if you follow the 10 Commandments, this sums up your entire sins.

Bad confessions and going to communion can be invalid and illicit. If you are withholding amortal sin, then, it is your fault.

God doesn’t chose heaven or hell, we have the rules to follow, and if we can’t follow these rules, it is you, yourself that will take you to Heaven or Hell.

We have what is called an Examination of Sins and in this examination every posible sin is mentioned. If you have a taxing device with going to cconfession, see if you can find an Examination of Conscience and go through each area of designated concern, and write down your sins; ahain, we send ourselves to heaven or hell because we have guideline to follow,

–Jim Roberts

 

[Los_Angeles]

Heaven, Purgatory, and Hell are youir options.

Heaven and Hell are eternal. Purgatory is not eternal.

Bad confessions and going to communion can be invalid and illicit. If you are withholding amortal sin, then, it is your fault.

God doesn’t chose heaven or hell, we have the rules to follow, and if we can’t follow these rules, it is you, yourself that will take you to Heaven or Hell.

We have what is called an Examination of Sins and in this examination every posible sin is mentioned. If you have a taxing device with going to cconfession, see if you can find an Examination of Conscience and go through each area of designated concern, and write down your sins; ahain, we send ourselves to heaven or hell because we have guideline to follow,

–Jim Roberts

The rest of this post appears to be completely off topic to the question I was asking.

If anything I have said is against the Catholic Church, let it be anathema.

 

[SteveGC]

Why aren’t there more than two options?

What third or fourth option would you like, and why?

 

[TimothyH]

So before I was born and knew not my existience, you are saying I was in hell?

You cannot be absent anything if you don’t exist.

-Tim-

 

[Trevor_Stamm]

Greetings, I have not posted on CAF for quite awhile now and I am back to ask this question that has been nagging me for quite some time because nobody I have asked can give a good answer for it.

According to the Catholic Church, I will ulitmately end up for all eternity in one of two places: Heaven or Hell.

Why aren’t there more than two options?

Based on knowing that my very existence carries with it the possibility of eternal damnation, my reason concluded that I should have the choice to be able to choose to have not been created in the first place if a bad decision on my part could lead to eternal damnation.

If what Catholic Church says is true, then there was no option to not have been created in the first place, thus life carries with it the possiblity of going to Heaven or Hell.

According to Catholic doctrine I could make a bad choice and commit a mortal sin and loose my salvation then if I were to die in that state I would go to hell.

Here is another way to put it: (it is not a perfect analogy so please dont take it too far)

One person decides to gamble their money at a casino and can either win money or loose money.

Another person decides not to gamble their money at a casino therefore they cannot win or loose their money at the casino by choice.

Conclusion: Life allows people to choose to not gamble or play the game in the first place.

*Footnote - Once Saved Always Saved is not a solution becuase I ruled out Protestant/Evangelical Chrisitanity a long time ago.

If anything I have said is against the Catholic Church, let it be anthema.

Hello Los Angeles,

Let me start off by saying I was asking the very same question before accepting Catholicism late last year. So I know exactly where you are.

I would get into debates with my brother, who is converting as well, saying why is there only the two choices of existence, good or evil? Heaven or Hell? Isn’t this a form of indirect coercion into choosing good after knowing the penalties of evil? I would always ask, if a person knows full well the benefits of choosing good and the rammifications of choosing evil, a sound sane person will always choose good as if there wasn’t a real choice to begin with. I would even get into asking the cause of existence and draw up conclusions of nessesary existence or boarderline pantheism, very heretical stuff when I look at it now. But what ultimately drew me away from that thinking and solved the question of why do we only have Heaven or Hell to choose is love. Love is the only logical and full mystical meaning of why we are here and why God wants to love us as we want to love him in Heaven.

Think of Heaven as the ultimate goal and completion of our creation and unconditional sacrafical Love as the conduit to Heaven.

This is why we call Hell, eternal regret.

I can’t put it any better then the doctors of the Church in the past, so I suggest writings of St. Thomas Aquinas with philosophical questions and St. Teresa of Avila with mysticism.

 

[Los_Angeles]

I think I can see my error in thinking now. Thank you everyone for your responses. Please keep me in your prayers.

If anything I have said is against the Catholic Church, let it be anathema.

 

[Phyllo]

Hi,
One of the poster here said that at the moment of death we still have the chance to repent of our mortal sins and go to heaven.

Is this in scripture or is it a Tradition, is it stated by a Church Father? Can any one point me in a direction to find this out?
Thanks

 

[Little_One0307]

Hi,
One of the poster here said that at the moment of death we still have the chance to repent of our mortal sins and go to heaven.

Is this in scripture or is it a Tradition, is it stated by a Church Father? Can any one point me in a direction to find this out?
Thanks

Succintly putting it, it’s affirmed by all three. As to sources, start off with the Catechism. If I have time later today, I will go combing for some sources, but I just wanted to answer the question.

God bless.

 

[Phyllo]

Succintly putting it, it’s affirmed by all three. As to sources, start off with the Catechism. If I have time later today, I will go combing for some sources, but I just wanted to answer the question.

God bless.

Thanks. Maybe I’ll look in the CC under death?