Why are homosexuality threads so popular?

[burnside]

Correct. And society has decided gays are not a danger.

No,it was a bunch of politicians who decided that.It didn’t come as a result of a referendum.The politicians kept a low profile over quite a few issues and only opened up when they felt there was no risk to their career.Now they are reaping the benefit of political apathy,which they usually moan about when that same apathy stops people from voting and they lose their political power.

 

[Bennie_P]

Some people probably are faking acceptance, but the demographics are all on the side of the gays. The younger the demographic, the higher the acceptance of gays. The kids just don’t see it as an issue.

Innocent students shouldn’t really care what the nudgers and winkers think. Most don’t.

When I was young and a pothead, I thought just about everyone else was one too, boy was I wrong. Your perception may just be due to the company you keep.

****He that walketh with the wise, shall be wise: a friend of fools shall become like to them.Proverbs 13:20

 

[Jay2]

Because people will not accept a simple “YES” or “NO” answer any longer… there has to be a clause/exemption to a rule.

There’s always a “loophole”… or someone trying to find one, or justifying one…

There’s the definition of the act/behavior. Cut & dried.
Then there’s the populous trying to find “exemptions”.

(Same thing can be said about about the 1000’s of masterbation threads… if you do it, at least learn how to spell it!)

 

[FishMonger]

Many Popes spoke out against slavery and people rejected it.In
present day India,catholic clergy are facing resistance from their
own parishioners when they try to object to the Caste System.
They have become Christians,but they seem to want to cling to this Caste System.Should the Church just dump Her teachings because people choose to reject them?They rejected Jesus 2000 years ago as well.

I don’t care what the church does with its teachings. It can dump them, change them, or keep them. It’s all OK with me.

However, slavery and the caste system are different from the birth control and homosexuality issues in one important aspect.

The people had embraced slavery and the caste system prior to the introduction of church teachings. So, the Church is struggling against a traditional value.

With birth control and homosexuality, the people had traditionally been on the Church’s side. Then they rejected those teachings.

In one case the church is trying to overturn tradition. In the other it is trying to reimpose tradition. Those are two very different things.

 

[FishMonger]

Fishermonger,

I’m 31 and my brother is 29. Both of us have changed our opinions from for ABC to against ABC after learning what the church really teaches and why it teaches what it teaches. Please realize there are is a counter-culture of young Catholics who want real Spritual Food, not relativist gobbeldy-gook.

For the record, I thought the church’s ban on ABC was complete horse-poop until I actually read Humanae Vitae and prayed on it.

I don’t doubt your story. However, there is no evidence that the attitude of the people is changing. The young people accepting contraception as normal greatly outnumber the older people who reverse their opinions. This can be seen by loking at the demographics of polls.

And in terms of homosexuality, there is good evidence that increasing numbers of Catholics are accepting homosexuality as normal. Again, a great deal of this increase comes in the young. The just don’t care. It’s a non-issue for them.

 

[FishMonger]

No,it was a bunch of politicians who decided that.It didn’t come as a result of a referendum.The politicians kept a low profile over quite a few issues and only opened up when they felt there was no risk to their career.Now they are reaping the benefit of political apathy,which they usually moan about when that same apathy stops people from voting and they lose their political power.

Very few things come as a result of a referendum. The Comstock laws sure weren’t a referendum. Nor were the laws struck down in Lawrence vs Texas. Were they just the low profile chianery by pols?

However, the politicians are elected and are responsive to the voters. They are enacting laws both favorable and unfavorable to gays. It’s a two-way street. Look at all the state legislatures that approved constitutional amendment votes. Also look at the fact that none have enacted gay marriage. All against gay wishes.

On the other hand, anti-discrimination laws are being extended to cover gays just as they now cover Catholics and Wiccans. these are pro-gay.

Beyond the politicians we see private companies enacting policies they see as the most bemeficial for themselves. Partner benefits are a big one here. The companies are doing it without any help from politicians.

 

[FishMonger]

When I was young and a pothead, I thought just about everyone else was one too, boy was I wrong. Your perception may just be due to the company you keep.

****He that walketh with the wise, shall be wise: a friend of fools shall become like to them.Proverbs 13:20

It’s a partial function of the company I keep. But, most of it is drawn from studying national polls and the demographic breakdown. I wouldn’t advise anyone to draw their opinions about an entire population exclusively from ther own network of acquaintances.

 

[Bennie_P]

I don’t care what the church does with its teachings. It can dump them, change them, or keep them. It’s all OK with me.

However, slavery and the caste system are different from the birth control and homosexuality issues in one important aspect.

The people had embraced slavery and the caste system prior to the introduction of church teachings. So, the Church is struggling against a traditional value.

With birth control and homosexuality, the people had traditionally been on the Church’s side. Then they rejected those teachings.

In one case the church is trying to overturn tradition.** In the other it is trying to reimpose tradition.** Those are two very different things.

Not correct, with homosexuality it is a minority of society that wants the Church to change its teaching concerning sexuality, which it cannot, because the Church cannot change the truth. And It is the “gay” agenda trying to convience society that the Church is trying reimpose that teaching, when in fact it has never changed. If you think there is evidence that the Catholics are accepting homosexuality as normal please present that evidence. In light of the priest scandal homosexuality has taken a hit within the Church for it is evident that the majority of the abuse cases are homosexual in nature. there is a renewed orthodoxy within the Church and it is coming from the youth of the Church, converts from non-Catholic Churchs and middle-age reverts.

 

[FishMonger]

Because people will not accept a simple “YES” or “NO” answer any longer… there has to be a clause/exemption to a rule.

There’s always a “loophole”… or someone trying to find one, or justifying one…

There’s the definition of the act/behavior. Cut & dried.
Then there’s the populous trying to find “exemptions”.

(Same thing can be said about about the 1000’s of masterbation threads… if you do it, at least learn how to spell it!)

People don’t accept yes/no answers anymore because they are better educated and informed, and have learned to think for themselves. They no longer simply take the word of people who claim to be authorities. They question. They investigate. They challenge.

 

[Bennie_P]

People don’t accept yes/no answers anymore because they are better educated and informed, and have learned to think for themselves. They no longer simply take the word of people who claim to be authorities. They question. They investigate. They challenge.

Ha, sounds like what the serpent told Eve. “For God doth know that in what day soever you shall eat thereof, your eyes shall be opened: and you shall be as Gods, knowing good and evil.”

In reality they are being spoon feed by the media and popular culture and eating it up, not thinking about consequences of their very poor choices.

 

[FishMonger]

Not correct, with homosexuality it is a minority of society that wants the Church to change its teaching concerning sexuality, which it cannot, because the Church cannot change the truth. And It is the “gay” agenda trying to convience society that the Church is trying reimpose, when in fact it has never changed. If think there is evidence that the Catholics are accepting homosexuality as normal please present that evidence. In light of the priest scandal homosexuality has taken a hit within the Church for it is evident that the majority of the abuse cases are homosexual in nature.

I have no opinion on who wants to change Church teachings. I don’t know anything about that. I don’t know if it’s a minority or majority.

I do observe that people don’t accept those teachings regarding contraception and homosexuality (to a lesser extent). Maybe they want them changed; maybe they don’t. I don’t now.

I agree Church teaching have not changed. But the acceptance by Church members has changed. It is that acceptance of unchanged teachings that the Church is trying to reimpose.

As you requested, here’s an interesting Pew Poll. Catholics are broken out in several results boxes. For example:

In Feb 2004 35% Catholics strongly opposed gay marriage. In Mar 2006 that figure fell to 19%.

In 1999, 49% of Catholics favored gay adoption and 50% opposed it. In 2006, 55% of Catholics favored it and 37% opposed it.

people-press.org/reports/display.php3?ReportID=273

 

[FishMonger]

Ha, sounds like what the serpent told Eve. “For God doth know that in what day soever you shall eat thereof, your eyes shall be opened: and you shall be as Gods, knowing good and evil.”

In reality they are being spoon feed by the media and popular culture and eating it up, not thinking about consequences of their very poor choices.

I disagree. I think they are contrasting what religious leaders tell them with what they actually observe with their own eyes. For example, few have observed the destruction of the family in Massachusetts because it hasn’t happened. When the teaching predictions are contrary to their observation, they go with their own observation and their observation of reports from other places.

 

[Bennie_P]

I have no opinion on who wants to change Church teachings. I don’t know anything about that. I don’t know if it’s a minority or majority.

I do observe that people don’t accept those teachings regarding contraception and homosexuality (to a lesser extent). Maybe they want them changed; maybe they don’t. I don’t now.

I agree Church teaching have not changed. But the acceptance by Church members has changed. It is that acceptance of unchanged teachings that the Church is trying to reimpose.

Here’s an interesting Pew Poll. Catholics are broken out in several results boxes. For example:

In Feb 2004 35% Catholics strongly opposed gay marriage. In Mar 2006 that figure fell to 19%.

In 1999, 49% of Catholics favored gay adoption and 50% opposed it. In 2006, 55% of Catholics favored it and 37% opposed it.

source?

 

[FishMonger]

source?

Sorry. I just added the source link to the post.
people-press.org/reports/display.php3?ReportID=273

 

[burnside]

I don’t doubt your story. However, there is no evidence that the attitude of the people is changing. The young people accepting contraception as normal greatly outnumber the older people who reverse their opinions. This can be seen by loking at the demographics of polls.

And in terms of homosexuality, there is good evidence that increasing numbers of Catholics are accepting homosexuality as normal. Again, a great deal of this increase comes in the young. The just don’t care. It’s a non-issue for them.

Where do your statistics come from?Have you been going round asking people or just plagiarising the figures from someone else which happen to suit what you wish to believe?I know from your profile that you are no friend of the Catholic Church and you confirm that by your remark about the Church dumping Her Teachings.
The catholics i know who are soft on homosexuality are the ones who no longer believe in anything.I also know unbelievers who are not at all tolerant of homosexuality and the victim mentality we get from Gays seems to bear that out.
On the question of slavery,was slavery ok till the Church spoke against:it?The Church has been teaching for 2000 years.Slavery really only became an industry as a result of sea exploration discovering other lands.
Re.the Caste system in India.It is not a catholic country,but we are looking to the Catholic Church to speak out against it.That’s really something considering it is supposed to be a democracy.

 

[Bennie_P]

I have no opinion on who wants to change Church teachings. I don’t know anything about that. I don’t know if it’s a minority or majority.

I do observe that people don’t accept those teachings regarding contraception and homosexuality (to a lesser extent). Maybe they want them changed; maybe they don’t. I don’t now.

I agree Church teaching have not changed. But the acceptance by Church members has changed. It is that acceptance of unchanged teachings that the Church is trying to reimpose.

As you requested, here’s an interesting Pew Poll. Catholics are broken out in several results boxes. For example:

In Feb 2004 35% Catholics strongly opposed gay marriage. In Mar 2006 that figure fell to 19%.

In 1999, 49% of Catholics favored gay adoption and 50% opposed it. In 2006, 55% of Catholics favored it and 37% opposed it.

people-press.org/reports/display.php3?ReportID=273

So you think a poll of 1405 adults gives us a fair sampling of how 300,000,000 Americans think?

Results for this survey are based on telephone interviews conducted under the direction of Princeton Survey Research Associates International among a nationwide sample of 1,405 adults, 18 years of age or older, from March 8-12, 2006. For results based on the total sample

Like I said - In reality they are being spoon feed by the media and popular culture and eating it up, not thinking about consequences of their very poor choices.

 

[burnside]

People don’t accept yes/no answers anymore because they are better educated and informed, and have learned to think for themselves. They no longer simply take the word of people who claim to be authorities. They question. They investigate. They challenge.

I used to help politicians to deliver their literature so you have just given me a good laugh with your remark that people have learned to think for themselves.It is all about soundbites and control freaks
Nowadays,many people go for the easy option.I worked for Government Departments and harmed my career prospects because i was not prepared to be one of these,“yes sir,no sir,3 bags full,sir” types.The modern young men had no problem sucking up.The U.S.is no different from the UK.

 

[FishMonger]

Where do your statistics come from?Have you been going round asking people or just plagiarising the figures from someone else which happen to suit what you wish to believe?I know from your profile that you are no friend of the Catholic Church and you confirm that by your remark about the Church dumping Her Teachings.
The catholics i know who are soft on homosexuality are the ones who no longer believe in anything.I also know unbelievers who are not at all tolerant of homosexuality and the victim mentality we get from Gays seems to bear that out.
On the question of slavery,was slavery ok till the Church spoke against:it?The Church has been teaching for 2000 years.Slavery really only became an industry as a result of sea exploration discovering other lands.
Re.the Caste system in India.It is not a catholic country,but we are looking to the Catholic Church to speak out against it.That’s really something considering it is supposed to be a democracy.

I do not conduct my own polls. I do get my stats from polls. I just posted the Pew poll at Benny’s request.

Do I plaigerise? No, because I don’t claim the work as my own. It’s true I don’t footnote everything I write, but this isn’t a peer reviewed journal, either. If we all footnoted everythng, there would be very little in this forum.

I didn’t know my profile mentioned the Catholic Church. What does it say about it?

I am content for the Church to dump its teachings, change the teachings, or keep the teachngs. I recognize that as an in-house function of the Church. It’s none of my business. I think Church doctrine puts that responsibility in the hands of the pope and the magesterium, not mine.

I accept you know the views of your Catholic and unbelieving acquaintances regarding homosexuality.

Slavery was an institution long before the Europeans put to sea. The Roman Empire in which the Church grew up condoned slavery.

I realize India is not a Catholic country. Neither is the USA. So what? I also realize the Indian government has been working against the caste system for fifty years. Affirmative action in this country pales when compared to the AA accorded the Dalits. Sometime I’ll write about my time in India. Great country. Goa rocks. Sri lanka, too.

 

[FishMonger]

So you think a poll of 1405 adults gives us a fair sampling of how 300,000,000 Americans think?

Like I said - In reality they are being spoon feed by the media and popular culture and eating it up, not thinking about consequences of their very poor choices.

Yes. At 95% confidence the margin of error of a 1,000 person sample is ±3.1%.

Note that in most national polls (Gallup, Pew, USNews, ABC, Zogby, etc) the sample size is between 900 and 1,000.

 

[FishMonger]

I used to help politicians to deliver their literature so you have just given me a good laugh with your remark that people have learned to think for themselves.It is all about soundbites and control freaks
Nowadays,many people go for the easy option.I worked for Government Departments and harmed my career prospects because i was not prepared to be one of these,“yes sir,no sir,3 bags full,sir” types.The modern young men had no problem sucking up.The U.S.is no different from the UK.

That is true about many people. In the past, it was true about almost everyone. Consider that for hundreds of years the Church in the West had a near monopoly on literacy. They ran the schools, let in whom they chose, and taught what they chose. Kings couldn’t read, and employed monks to read and write for them.

Times have certainly changed. Today I think it’s safe to say 75% of American adults are functionally literate. The rest are at least aware of many things from TV that their ancestors could never have accessed. And, it doesn’t take that many free thinkers to start the ball rolling. If just 10% of people are informed and think for themselves, their ideas easily spread to the other 90%.

So, I contrast very different situations.