Why are many protestants opposed to honoring the Blessed Virgin Mary?

[Hesychios]

Why are many protestants opposed to honoring the Blessed Virgin Mary?

Perhaps some Christians have witnessed excesses and abuses, and are afraid to fall into the same trap.

Of course they might be overreacting.

 

[HelenRose]

Which just proves evangelicals are dumber than a door knob when it comes to the Trinity. Oh they will SAY the believe the F,S, AND HS are one yet bring up “MOG” and I’ve heard “Jesus is not god, he is son of god”…boggles the brain!

There is no point in being insulting.

 

[robwar]

Which just proves evangelicals are dumber than a door knob when it comes to the Trinity. Oh they will SAY the believe the F,S, AND HS are one yet bring up “MOG” and I’ve heard “Jesus is not god, he is son of god”…boggles the brain!

I think that calling evangelicals names does not advance the thought here and for many that are on CAF and seaking answers or to convert, calling them stupid really does not help in outreach and sets up road blocks. We attrack others to the Catholic church by kindness and not names. Sadly, there is much confusion out there about Theotokos and the trinity but calling them idiots doesn’t help educate and clear up the confusion.

 

[PaladinSword]

If it wasn’t for the Blessed Virgin Mary dragging me kicking a screaming back to Jesus I probably wouldn’t be a Christian at all. Her Intercession got me to return to the church through a dream and the rosary. I was totally lost in my life and she helped me so much. I’ve heard it said before that a tainted image of the BVM is a tainted image of Christ himself. They are too united to separate.

Another reason protestants seem to reject her is because they follow their private interpretation of scripture and have no sacred tradition.

The Assumption and Coronation are not in the Bible. They are only in sacred tradition.

But they don’t know the early Christians didn’t have the Bible they only had sacred tradition!

 

[AnneElizabeth]

Perhaps some Christians have witnessed excesses and abuses, and are afraid to fall into the same trap.

Of course they might be overreacting.

^THIS^

I think this is the crux of the matter.

People are afraid of excess and abuses… and I think they should be. This is the number one reason obedience is so important. However, not everyone knows exactly Who to be obedient to and in what way. That’s why it seems to me the apostles in the epistles retorted all to follow The Faith handed down to them. There is such a thing as heresy then and there is now too.

Are we supposed to just give ourselves to anyone who comes along? Even if they do state they are authority? Martin Luther left over abuses in the Catholic Church. I think it was the sale of indulgences if I remember correctly. No one would deny his concern, but Catholics do state that the way in which he sought to remedy the problem was erroneous. Ever since then, its been splits-ville for everyone when there is a disagreement. Yet, where does (or where should) obedience to God and obedience to the Church separate?

That too, seems like the crux of the matter.

Fear of God is the beginning of wisdom.

The church does teach that it is all a matter of conscience now, right? What constitutes “overreacting” and true fear of God, that is, of sinning against Him? How can anyone say to another, “Your fear is silly!”?

 

[AnneElizabeth]

Which just proves evangelicals are dumber than a door knob when it comes to the Trinity. Oh they will SAY the believe the F,S, AND HS are one yet bring up “MOG” and I’ve heard “Jesus is not god, he is son of god”…boggles the brain!

Hi just came back,

I’m just wondering, what do you mean by “MOG”? I’ve not hear of that before. Can you fill me in?

EDIT: OK, nevermind! Now I get it… “Mother of God” , right?

(Sorry, It is early in the morning for me!)

 

[aicirt]

From what I’ve read about Luther, he had a private devotion to Mary. I think this was changed by the Calvinists.

Protestants say they follow the Bible, and they do have Luke 1,48 in the KJB which quotes Mary saying, “Behold, from now on will all ages call me blessed.” Yet, they don’t and we do.

 

[JRKH]

Which just proves evangelicals are dumber than a door knob when it comes to the Trinity. Oh they will SAY the believe the F,S, AND HS are one yet bring up “MOG” and I’ve heard “Jesus is not god, he is son of god”…boggles the brain!

There is no point in being insulting.

I think that calling evangelicals names does not advance the thought here and for many that are on CAF and seaking answers or to convert, calling them stupid really does not help in outreach and sets up road blocks. We attrack others to the Catholic church by kindness and not names. Sadly, there is much confusion out there about Theotokos and the trinity but calling them idiots doesn’t help educate and clear up the confusion.

Agree with Helen and robar…calling an entire group of Christian brothers and sisters “stupid” is simply not acceptable.

Peace
James

 

[JRKH]

Many protestants ask a very simple question - a question that does not attack Mary or Catholicism - or even accuse anyone of improper worship…

They ask “Why”…
Why Mary as intercessor?
Why anyone between us and Christ?

These are very good questions and some of the perceived “excesses and abuses” that Hesychios mentioned earlier only add to their wondering and their confusion.

To the Protestant mind, the goal is God through Christ. This is, and has always been sufficient - enshrined in Holy Scripture. We Catholics believe this too.
Yet some Catholics wish to say that the best way to Jesus is through Mary…but their devotion in this way is so great and in their zeal to express this, it comes off sounding like you must go through Mary to get to Jesus. I’ve experienced this personally.

JonNC earlier said that we must do a better job of explaining and the Non-Catholic needs to do a better job of listening. Well - I can’t make them listen better, but I can work on explaining better.
To this end, when I am talking to a non-Catholic or a recent convert who is having trouble coming to grips with Marion devotion, I have found it best to stay away from any “flowery adjectives”, or recommending books on deep Marion devotions (like de-Montfort) etc.
Instead, I try to express to them that we love Mary in the same way that any child will love a mother who loves them with all their heart. That they can do not better than to develop that same sort of love for her. This is how she loves us, this is how Jesus loves her, and in that love is an understanding of how interconnected we all are.

And when someone expresses to me a feeling of discomfort about praying to Mary for intercession instead of praying directly to Jesus, I tell them that they should pray in the manner that is most comfortable to them. Because Mary could hardly be jealous or upset with us for praying directly to the one she wishes to lead us to. Her Love is too great for that.

Just some thoughts.

Peace
James

 

[Aeden]

Many seem to be under the impression that we worship her as a goddess. We don’t, she’s like God’s secretary, it’s easier to reach her sometimes than the Big Man.

 

[plainatheart71]

Excellent explanation James.
I am still struggling somewhat with the devotion to Mary. I don’t know a lot about Catholicism yet but I am studying and learning.
I know that by the time my husband and I came to Catholicism we were both so beaten down, broken and hurting and had been hurt by ourselves in religion that we were scared to death of falling back into idolatry and believing heretical teachings.
We weren’t ever going back to another church unless we knew for sure the Lord was telling us to when our friend invited us to Mass. The rest is history.
Now growing up Protestant I never heard anything about Mary except at Christmas and Easter. We always did the Nativity play at Christmas.
I didn’t really start questioning why there wasn’t a female “mother” with God the Father and God the Son until after my mother passed away and I no longer had her. And I wasn’t even aware that I was questioning this until we were attending Mass and then it dawned on me.
I do believe we should love Mary and honor her as Jesus’ mother. I check myself when I pray the rosary and the Lord knows that I don’t want to commit idolatry again. But each and every time I pray the rosary it centers me and calms me. By the time I am done praying it I feel so much better and if I’ve been angry or upset or something that goes away.

 

[JRKH]

Many seem to be under the impression that we worship her as a goddess. We don’t, she’s like God’s secretary, it’s easier to reach her sometimes than the Big Man.

Never heard it expressed that way before…

I don’t necessarily agree with it:shrug:…but I like it anyway…

Peace
James

 

[JRKH]

Excellent explanation James.

Thank you.

I am still struggling somewhat with the devotion to Mary. I don’t know a lot about Catholicism yet but I am studying and learning.

I’m still studying too. I’m not a complicated person (I think) and like to keep things as simple as possible. We are all children of the Father, Jesus in this sense is our brother as well as our king. Mary is our mother - and all of this is tied together by “agape” Love. So I seek to Love them all as best as my feeble efforts and weak character allow.
That’s my very simplistic take on the matter.

I know that by the time my husband and I came to Catholicism we were both so beaten down, broken and hurting and had been hurt by ourselves in religion that we were scared to death of falling back into idolatry and believing heretical teachings.

Understood.

We weren’t ever going back to another church unless we knew for sure the Lord was telling us to when our friend invited us to Mass. The rest is history.

Praise God.

Now growing up Protestant I never heard anything about Mary except at Christmas and Easter. We always did the Nativity play at Christmas.
I didn’t really start questioning why there wasn’t a female “mother” with God the Father and God the Son until after my mother passed away and I no longer had her. And I wasn’t even aware that I was questioning this until we were attending Mass and then it dawned on me.

Here you make the very point that I try to make with others. Each must come to understanding in their own time and way. When that moment comes, when it “dawns” on them, it will make so much more sense.

I do believe we should love Mary and honor her as Jesus’ mother. I check myself when I pray the rosary and the Lord knows that I don’t want to commit idolatry again. But each and every time I pray the rosary it centers me and calms me. By the time I am done praying it I feel so much better and if I’ve been angry or upset or something that goes away.

Amen to this. And the Rosary is so Christ and bible centered. The only thing we ask specifically of Mary is to pray for us.

Peace
James

 

[GaryTaylor]

Here’s a brief from Wiki-pedia.

google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=web&cd=3&ved=0CFYQFjAC&url=http%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FPerpetual_virginity_of_Mary&ei=C375T7TnKeWn6AG2prz0Bg&usg=AFQjCNH6-q-tZRICJRPSIvchbnx8JJm8_Q&sig2=GkJwxd7yqPjeOu5d2Ea5RA

Problem with the article is its focus on Doctrine, not how the churchs worshipped in regards to Mary in the Liturgy etc. When you research the early church’s you see the idea of Immaculate, no spot or stain and ever virgin basically from the conception of the Church.

Same with the Trinity for example. We do not see the Doctine of the Trinity or the devolopement of Theophilus of Antioch writings till the late second century either. However this also doesn’t indicate what the Churchs indeed believed from the time of the Apostles either. Doctrine developes in reaction to heresy, Adoptionism, Sabellianism, and Arianism etc. Same is true for the early Creeds which develope as a result or we could conclude there would be no need for them.

The same issue occurs today. From Mary to how we as individuals should understand our relationship to the Holy Family and then to the Divine Master Jesus.

In many ways the Icon heresy is still promoted today by fringe Protestant groups. Fringe Protestant groups also read 2-Peter to believe they are God. Isn’t this also a very early heresy? Every heresy the West/East has struggled through is still promoted in some way to some degree. The Holy war with Islam has continued since 700-AD. There is nothing new under the sun. Goddess addressed very early in the church, Joseph and Children, Mary and Children not new.

In many ways I see a similar Church today as with the early centuries. We have an opportunity to promote a Christian lifestyle in unity, exactly as it was before Temporal Rulers put there hands in the pot. Certainly we are better off today than a period of the Roman Circus. Today the temporal rule only goes as far with involvement as it benifits their cause. Yet the window of opportunity is open now to speak for the only way Christianity will overcome, which is through Orthodoxy and Communion. Once this can begin to happen then everything opposed falls like a house of cards, at the same time the cycle of temporal rule once again will become an issue.

 

[bevsue]

As someone who was a cradle Catholic and has returned to the faith after nearly 20 years as an evangelical I thought I’d add my two cents here.

First of all, for the most part this has been a pretty interesting and accurate thread from “both sides of the aisle” so to speak. I also have to agree that hostility is NOT the way to go even when frustrated with a fellow Christian. Though there can be plenty of vehemence on either side at times, it is the listening, as mentioned, and the steady course of confidence in the truth with LOVE, that shows people the love of God and the steadfast purpose He put forth in establishing the Catholic Church from the very beginning.

A number of people have mentioned things that I struggled with about Mary in returning to the Church and which my evangelical friends still do object to. It is encouraging to me, as some here have stated, it can often just be misinformation about what exactly the Church does officially teach vs. what their dear Aunt Millie told them about something which is off-the-wall-and-who-knows-where-she-got-that-idea. Apart from the usual things folks addressed here - and quite well I think - there is another problem.

So many Catholics really NEED to know their own faith and Church teachings better. How do we do this? Adult education seems like a foreign concept to many Catholics, and yet sermons on Sunday are only 10-20 minutes long and focus on the readings of the day, (which is as it should be - Church doctrine comes from the Word of God). But not all of Church history and teaching is covered or addressed in that time frame. I think we lose people all the time because they don’t know and understand what riches they really have in the Church, or where practices came from, or for example, that the Eucharist was ALWAYS considered to be the actual Body and Blood of Jesus from the very beginning of the Church, not something thought up in 300 AD, etc. If we don’t know and understand these things ourselves, how can we possibily explain them to someone else when they ask out of genuine curiosity, or to show us “the error of our ways”? I’ve heard supposed Catholic teachings about Mary you wouldn’t believe, and many from “former” Catholics who didn’t know themselves because they weren’t ever really taught what the official teaching was - this includes some folks with Catholic education. I’m not trying to be critical, I just wish there was a solution.

My husband and I are blessed to be in a pro-Pope, pro-Magisterium, pro-Church doctrine parish with a wonderful priest and very active lay ministries including prayer, service, Bible and Catechism studies. But even so, this involves about 1/4 of the parish, and still it is light years ahead of many other places. It is sad because I see good folks who I know would be crushed if their kids left the Church, yet if those same kids asked them a few direct questions about some things, these parents wouldn’t know how to answer. Is this a correctable problem?

 

[JRKH]

As someone who was a cradle Catholic and has returned to the faith after nearly 20 years as an evangelical I thought I’d add my two cents here.

First of all, for the most part this has been a pretty interesting and accurate thread from “both sides of the aisle” so to speak. I also have to agree that hostility is NOT the way to go even when frustrated with a fellow Christian. Though there can be plenty of vehemence on either side at times, it is the listening, as mentioned, and the steady course of confidence in the truth with LOVE, that shows people the love of God and the steadfast purpose He put forth in establishing the Catholic Church from the very beginning.

A number of people have mentioned things that I struggled with about Mary in returning to the Church and which my evangelical friends still do object to. It is encouraging to me, as some here have stated, it can often just be misinformation about what exactly the Church does officially teach vs. what their dear Aunt Millie told them about something which is off-the-wall-and-who-knows-where-she-got-that-idea. Apart from the usual things folks addressed here - and quite well I think - there is another problem.

So many Catholics really NEED to know their own faith and Church teachings better. How do we do this? Adult education seems like a foreign concept to many Catholics, and yet sermons on Sunday are only 10-20 minutes long and focus on the readings of the day, (which is as it should be - Church doctrine comes from the Word of God). But not all of Church history and teaching is covered or addressed in that time frame. I think we lose people all the time because they don’t know and understand what riches they really have in the Church, or where practices came from, or for example, that the Eucharist was ALWAYS considered to be the actual Body and Blood of Jesus from the very beginning of the Church, not something thought up in 300 AD, etc. If we don’t know and understand these things ourselves, how can we possibily explain them to someone else when they ask out of genuine curiosity, or to show us “the error of our ways”? I’ve heard supposed Catholic teachings about Mary you wouldn’t believe, and many from “former” Catholics who didn’t know themselves because they weren’t ever really taught what the official teaching was - this includes some folks with Catholic education. I’m not trying to be critical, I just wish there was a solution.

Thanks for joining the conversation. Just the sort of (name removed by moderator)ut that we need.

My husband and I are blessed to be in a pro-Pope, pro-Magisterium, pro-Church doctrine parish with a wonderful priest and very active lay ministries including prayer, service, Bible and Catechism studies. But even so, this involves about 1/4 of the parish, and still it is light years ahead of many other places. It is sad because I see good folks who I know would be crushed if their kids left the Church, yet if those same kids asked them a few direct questions about some things, these parents wouldn’t know how to answer. Is this a correctable problem?

Boy this is a whole other thread…

Peace
James

 

[aicirt]

BEVSUE…I suggest the church bulletins be utilized better for the purpose of explaining different aspects of Catholicism. The more that is explained, the more interest.

Church is interested in promoting the Sacrament of Reconciliation. Why not add a flyer in the bulletin listing the 10 Commandments and what constitutes a sin against each?

There was nothing in my bulletin about the Religious Freedom rally, FOR THE GREATER GLORY, or any books, videors, or TV shows which would be of interest to the congregation.

 

[stevekehl]

Often they have struggle believing in her virginity, her purity, her sinlessness as the Mother of God. Why would I honor a woman, who is as sinful as myself? Pride comes and leads to ignorance.
Many protestants make their own doctrines about our Lady and deny her being the Mother of God, but rather just a Mother of a holy man. Why would I honor the mother of a holy man, when I think I am a holy man myself? Pride comes and leads to ignorance.
Protestants are protesting against the Sacredness of our faith purely out of pride, jealousy and greed. They often don’t respect their own soul and body as something so precious and vulnerable that is has to be carried through this world by a mother so tender and loving as our Lady of Medjugorje. Jesus gave us his own Mother in order to carry us in her spiritual womb. What is born of the flesh is flesh, of the spirit is spirit.

I was just going to leave a post about my personal beliefs about Mary, but after reading this I had to respond. You are WAY offff the mark, I didn’t mispell off, it needed 4 fs. Mary not a virgin, not the Mother of God, the mother of a holy man, don’t respect our souls?? Where do you get this stuff. Yes, most Protestants don’t believe in Mary’s sinless life or that she carries our soul through this world, those are God-like characteristics. Mary must have been an incredible woman, I would think that just because she accepted God’s will even though I’m sure she didn’t understand it. To be pregnant and unmarried back then was a scary proposition, if she told people she was pregnant by the power of God she probably would have been stoned. Surrender to God to that extent is awe inspiring. I think Protestants don’t give Mary enough credit, however I think Catholics give her too much. Scripture says the Zechariah, John the Baptists father, was blameless, was he sinless too. I don’t think so.
Also some Protestants do object to calling Mary the Mother of God. I think this is due to the perception that Mary is being called the mother of the Godhead (Father, Son and Holy Spirit). If more people understood that it recognizes Mary as Jesus mother, Jesus was God in the flesh, therefor Mary is the Mother of God it would be more accepted outside the CC.

Jesus called John the Baptist the greatest man born of woman, was John greater than Jesus

 

[AnneElizabeth]

I have a neighbor down the street, in which I met one day while taking a walk. She and I were talking at her house and I noticed in her window she had a lamp with images of The Blessed Mother on it. I asked her if she was Catholic, she said, 'no", but continued to tell me how beautiful she thought the Blessed Virgin is. (She wasn’t just talking about the specific image on the lamp either.)

So, I think it is really unfair to say that most or even a large majority of Protestants would not give her some sort of honor. I just think most of them are wary/cautious of the type of veneration that they see given to her by Catholics (or maybe even Orthodox too?).

I will have to admit that sometimes the way in which some Catholics go about honoring and praying to The Blessed Virgin kind of scare me too.   I don't know if this is because I was raised in a more Protestant area or what.  Sometimes I feel that I am not even sure what constitutes  as "Catholic", but I am thankful for my catechism.

I would agree with bevsue- I think there needs to be a real effort at educating adult Catholics. Even the catechism says that learning the faith is an ongoing thing. One should take the time to review too… its easy to forget a lot.

I love the idea that aicirt posted… Bulletins can be better utilized to teach as well. Brilliant!

 

[JRKH]

stevekehl,

The problem with trying to post anything in relation to what “protestants” think or believe is that there really is no commonality among them. Even in something as basic (to protestantism) as Sola Scriptura there is a wide variation on how that is defined/employed (from “Prima Scriptura” to "SolO Scriptura)…

So I hope you will forgive our tendency to sometimes inadvertent “lumping together” of “protestants”…and our perceived understandings based (usually - and I know in my case) largely on more “personal experience” than on a deep understanding of the many variations and flavors within the “protestant” world.

It’s good to see that you have a deep appreciation for Our Lady.

Peace
James