Why are muslims so violent?

[cthulhubryan]

Hi

Sorry, you are giving a wrong piece of advice to a peaceful Muslims, in my opinion. A peaceful man would always adopt peaceful methods. The politicians are being looked after by the politicians of the West.

Thanks

In that case they should at least be denouncing them.

 

[Sam_777]

No matter where in the world you look, wherever muslims are gathered in great numbers (Middle East, eastern Europe, India, Indoneisia, Burma, Phillipines, southern Russia, western China) they are constantly engaged in violent conflicts with their neighbors. Why do members of this religion so often engage in violence with their neighbors? Will they ever change or will they will Islam always be intrinsically violent?

The answer is simply in the Bible:

(Genesis 16:11-12):
“The angel of the LORD also said to her: "You are now with child and you will have a son. You shall name him Ishmael, for the LORD has heard of your misery. He will be a wild donkey of a man; his hand will be against everyone and everyone’s hand against him, and he will live in hostility toward all his brothers.”

 

[R_not]

The answer is simply in the Bible:

(Genesis 16:11-12):
“The angel of the LORD also said to her: "You are now with child and you will have a son. You shall name him Ishmael, for the LORD has heard of your misery. He will be a wild donkey of a man; his hand will be against everyone and everyone’s hand against him, and he will live in hostility toward all his brothers.”

Some of the problem that I have with this passage is that in the Middle East most of those muslims used to be Jews and Christians. Some religions were completely wiped out by the muslims - eg: Zorastrians. They converted out of force in order to live without the terror of daily living under muslim rule. Many were from slaves after mohammed, and his followers, killed so many. The slaveholders were encouraged to rape their slaves and have babies by them. And many converted for the same reasons the ones who accepted subjugation, at first, who realized living in those conditions was hell on earth.

There are books on jihad, but a free site that has some history on jihad against so many is on this site on the history of jihad.

yes, part of this verse is true, but part is not. What we see even in many converts from Europe and our own lands is their eagerness to go wage jihad. There are many ‘Johnny Walkers’ that train in the Middle East.

 

[Shai22]

I’m not Muslim. I’m a child of GOD who has learned to discern who comes from GOD and who doesn’t. I can tell you that as long as you harbour hatred within your heart, you are living against GOD.

These people that you hate so much, also have the opportunity of being 'forgiven by GOD", which is something you cannot judge,nor change. It’s out of your control.

GOD and Jesus teaches to hate the behavior never the person. “Love your enemies as you love yourself”.

 

[R_not]

I’m not Muslim. I’m a child of GOD who has learned to discern who comes from GOD and who doesn’t. I can tell you that as long as you harbour hatred within your heart, you are living against GOD.

These people that you hate so much, also have the opportunity of being 'forgiven by GOD", which is something you cannot judge,nor change. It’s out of your control.

GOD and Jesus teaches to hate the behavior never the person. “Love your enemies as you love yourself”.

How do you know I hate them? Just because I said they used to be a majority of Jews and Christians? Why don’t you crack open a koran, or study the jihads that have gone on since mohammed’s time. You might find that it is a terrible history and what I said was true - most used to be Jews and Christians, and also pagans, Zorastrians, Hindus, etc. Yes, many were from Ishmael, but many were not.

I think that your diatribe made you feel better and I think that setting yourself up as a judge is rather funny, or maybe ironic is a better word.

did that make you feel better?

Here do some reading on the history of jihad.

And make sure to crack open a koran and you might think that book might not be what you should be defending.

Centrality of jihad in islam

When/if you read the above article keep in mind that 97% of all jihad preached in the koran is the violent kind. Yes, that ‘inner struggle’ is among the other 3% that is mentioned but was not considered the holiest of jihads that all muslims are to wage.

 

[R_not]

In the history of jihads site that I gave to you - maybe check out the jihads in India. The muslims declared another jihad in late 2007 and this is why so much violence there.

Well, currently they are trying to make war between Pakistan and India so the Paki soldiers take their attention off of the Taliban/Al Qaeda in Afghanistan so they can focus more on their violence over there in Afghanistan.

Why is there so much violence in islam? Why don’t you try asking that of yourself instead of telling me that I hate. I really don’t hate them.

 

[Valke2]

I actually wondered why the Israelis didn’t stop the flow of water sooner. Let me see - they lob bombs at schools, and blow up buses, and other places where children go and they are supported by israeli’s flow of water?

I won’t post anymore about Israel but I do ask that you look more into the problem over there. The pals have wasted so much time and money on bombs - training their kids to be jihadists from kindergarten on up and celebrate when they die (they know they will get a paycheck for giving their kids to that cause) that it is rather sick overall.

the israelis only stopped the flow of water AFTER the pals continued to bomb them AFTER I don’t know how many peace treaties and AFTER turning the land over to them. They even left their agricultural buildings that the pals didn’t have a clue to use and instead of getting trained on that - they chose the route of jihad and killing while wailing and whining they are the victims.

They are in a fight for their very existence and their lives. And they have the world against them due to the muslim’s propaganda being much better and the usual anti-semitism from Europe, our left and the muslims here.

So the question seems to be is collective punishment under these circumstances justified. And if it is, does that mean that it cannot be a human rights violation?

I’m a big supporter of Israel. I hesitate to say that it does not engage in actions that can be viewed as violating human rights. I don’t see how a nation avoids this when it is engaged in a war.

 

[Jay53]

Just curious, why in the world is “Paki” offensive? I took it to be a shortened form of Pakistani? Maybe I’m just naive and don’t understand the history/connotation of the word? (Sorry if I offended anyone by asking! )

 

[Lainey63]

I find this offensive and Untrue. I have a Muslim friend and he’s overly nice. He’d never hurt a fly. I think you’re not mentioning the very LARGE Muslim population of Africa. No one mentions them because they never do anything News worthy. They just worship, work, eat sleep and play. Maybe that’s just Asia and Europe’s problem. The wars waged in Africa have to do with European established country borderls and almost never faith. Asia and Europe have had its long standing issues with Invasian and trying to maintain ethinic homogeneity. It’s Why people in France try to ban religious or ethnic paraphenilia of any kind. They want everyone to be the same. Otherness can be scary. Let us not forget that Christians in America are often equated with violence too. So don’t worry about Muhommed is doing. Keep yourself in check. The world is watching you too. Everyday someone in the paper is talikng about how crazy christians are. Guys actually use Christianity as an insult to mean uptight, prudish, and psychotic. Thanks to certain public figures that aren’t good models for christianity.

So what about those Islam who are kidnapping Catholic and christians in various African countries keeping them as slaves raping the young teenage girls…Oh because they (we) are infidels therefore according to the law of Islam that Al-Quada follows it is just & right to do these things in the name of God. I too have seen the news reports of large groups of men coming out of the Mosques after their prayers violently chanting, etc…Even here on the streets of NY & Boston they have gathered chanting violently against Americans & Christians. All in the name of free speech…

 

[ChristianKnight]

Hi

A “Muslim” can never be violent; he only becomes violent when he becomes a “Jew”, in my opinion.

I love Buddha and Krishna as I do love Jesus and Mary.

Thanks

No offense, but thats a completely retarded ideology. I mean, if thats how you see it, then your religion is safe from being accussed of violence, cause anyone who does it isn’t a muslim?

I really hope thats not what Islam teaches, but umk.

 

[Jay53]

Thanks for the info! I’ve never heard the term “Taig” either! Must be my sheltered life over here! But at least now I have a heads up on what not to say! - or what to say if I want to tick someone off!!

 

[cathopologist]

Just curious, why in the world is “Paki” offensive? I took it to be a shortened form of Pakistani? Maybe I’m just naive and don’t understand the history/connotation of the word? (Sorry if I offended anyone by asking! )

Its just like in some parts of the world, “Fag” means cigarette/smoke. To others, it means you’re calling him a queer.

 

[cathopologist]

Poor things must be wondering which of the two they should be doing. LOL

 

[Sagefrakrobatik]

Yea Pakistan and Jamiaica are the two largest immigrant groups but I read that like 4 years ago so i dont know if the demographics have changed.

Anyways For those who think the Muslims are the only ones starting trouble what about the destruction of the Rodyha mosque in India and this;

Lt Colonel Shrikant Purohit— arrested for his suspected role in the Malegaon blasts of September 29 — had procured 60 kg of RDX from J&K in 2006, a part of which is suspected to have been used in the Samjautha Express train explosion and Malegaon blasts, Maharashtra police told a Nashik court on Saturday.

This is the latest in a series of recent revelations linking the Malegaon blasts to Hindu extremist groups. The findings are prompting a new line of investigations in four unresolved terrorist strikes that targeted primarily Muslim localities. These attacks occurred over 21 months and killed 75.

The police had said Islamist groups had carried out these strikes, and claimed that they targeted Muslims to create communal tension. That theory has all but collapsed. The Central Bureau of Investigation (CBI) and investigators from Haryana, Rajasthan, Gujarat and Maharashtra are now exchanging notes to broaden the scope of investigation and probe Hindu extremists.

In many cases, there now seems to be no hard evidence to nail Muslims arrested on the suspicion of having carried out terror attacks. A Hyderabad court last week acquitted four Muslim young men after investigators who were probing them for having had a role in the Mecca mosque blasts found nothing incriminating.

Probes of the blasts on the Samjhauta Express near Panipat in February 2007 and at the Sufi Khwaja Moinuddin Chishti dargah in Ajmer in October 2007 have hit dead ends. Sixty-six people, including Pakistani Muslims, had died in the Samjhauta blast. The Ajmer blast had killed three.

The net is now widening. “We are conducting a thorough probe into the Mecca mosque blast and are looking into all angles,” said a CBI spokesperson.

Rajasthan Additional Director General of Police, Arvind Kumar Jain, told HT: “The Ajmer blast probe has thrown up no clue yet. We are waiting for a signal from the Maharashtra police on if the Malegaon accused had a role here.”

Those accused of the Malegaon blast seem to be at the centre of the new line of investigation.

“We have investigators who were probing the Samjhauta Express blasts to Mumbai to grill the Malegaon accused,” said Haryana’s Director General of Police, RS Dalal.

Ten people — including a Hindu priestess, Sadhvi Pragyasingh Thakur, and serving and retired army officials who had allegedly trained Hindu extremists from 2003 — have been arrested in connection with the Malegaon blasts.

On Saturday, investigators in Mumbai arrested a man who is now being thought of as the mentor of Sadhvi and Lt Colonel Purohit. “Senior officials will decide when to communicate details to other agencies,” said ATS spokesperson, Dinesh Aggarwal. “The focus is on investigating the Malegaon blast case from all possible angles.”

 

[Sagefrakrobatik]

Also there are Muslims who have spoken outwardly against terrorism

Wathiqat Tarshid Al-‘Aml Al-Jihadi fi Misr w’Al-‘Alam
(Document to Rationalizing Jihadi Action in Egypt and the World)
By Sayyed Imam al-Sharif
Kuwait City: Al-Jarida, Cairo:
Al-Masri Al-Yawm, 2007 (in Arabic)

In 1988, the war being waged by the mujahideen against invading Soviet forces in Afghanistan was at its peak. Looking for inspiration for their struggle, the Muslim fighters needed an intellectual foundation and a practical guide for their endeavor. So 38-year-old Egyptian doctor Sayyed Imam al-Sharif filled the void, publishing his first book, The Faithful Guide for Preparation. As head of Egyptian Jihad, a group that had been distinguished by militant jihadi thought and tactical violence since its inception, al-Sharif was concerned with the proper philosophical and religious underpinnings for conducting holy war. And he was well placed to offer advice: Among the jihadists in Afghanistan and Pakistan at the time, he was the most deeply versed in Islamic law and theology. The book became the first of its kind to lay a systematic foundation, with roots in Islamic law, for the work in which the mujahideen were engaged. Its impact was huge: Even today, it remains a seminal text for new recruits to various jihadi groups around the world, including al Qaeda. The book cemented al-Sharif’s status as one of the most prominent ideologues of the global jihadi movement.

Five years later, al-Sharif followed it up with The Compendium in Pursuit of Noble Knowledge—a massive, 1,100-page work that reflected the author’s militancy and zealotry. It is no exaggeration to say that it established the theoretical, doctrinal, and legal foundation of the jihadi movement, not only in Egypt but everywhere. The book was a product of its time and the author’s own circumstances. The war in Afghanistan had ended with the defeat and withdrawal of the Soviets, and the time was ripe to develop a comprehensive theoretical basis for jihadi action in the future. By then, the author had left Egyptian Jihad as both commander and member, having accused his brethren of failures of leadership following the arrests of hundreds of members in Egypt. He was replaced by his comrade Ayman al-Zawahiri and became free to devote himself entirely to his scholarly theological work. He made his way to Yemen, where he lived freely until October 2001, when the Yemeni authorities arrested him following the September 11 attacks. Then—perhaps because of his arrest, perhaps because of the ferocity of the attacks themselves—al-Sharif apparently began to see things differently. In several statements following 9/11, he declared that the attacks were extremely damaging to Muslim interests, and he held Osama bin Laden and Zawahiri responsible. Already, the Egyptian authorities had tried al-Sharif in absentia in 1999 and sentenced him to life imprisonment. In 2004, the Yemeni authorities turned him over to Egypt to serve out his sentence.

But, rather than quietly fade away and allow his former followers to remember him as a captured martyr, al-Sharif (also known as Dr. Fadl) stunned the jihadi world in November with the publication of the slim Wathiqat Tarshid Al-‘Aml Al-Jihadi fi Misr w’Al-‘Alam (Document to Rationalizing Jihadi Action in Egypt and the World), in which he revises—indeed, reverses—many of the legal judgments he laid out in his two previous books. This book comes at a time when major jihadi religious groups are already engaging in a thorough reconsideration of their philosophy and violent pasts. Al-Sharif’s new work is forcing the overwhelming majority of Egyptian Jihad members to reckon with his new message. Given al-Sharif’s reputation and the influence Egyptian Jihad has exercised over the international jihadi movement, the work will likely resonate far beyond Egypt’s borders.

Like his previous two books, the Document to Rationalizing Jihadi Action is the product of both personal and public circumstances. Since Sept. 11, 2001, violent clashes between jihadi groups and the authorities have become a marked feature of our world. For al-Sharif, these clashes have been accompanied by violations of the legal Islamic concept of jihad that have harmed both Islam and its adherents—and about which he could not remain silent. With this text, al-Sharif draws on the experience and insight of a practiced sheikh to review his long history in the jihadi world. With the approval and support of his colleagues in Egyptian Jihad—the majority of whom support his new stance—he wrote the document to “rationalize” or “guide” the practice of jihad, whose correct meaning many of them have spent their lives searching for.

 

[Valke2]

{quote] A"Muslim" can never be violent; he only becomes violent when he becomes a “Jew”, in my opinion.

I never realized how many muslims have converted to Judaism!

 

[Sagefrakrobatik]

Published from jail and serialized as 15 parts in two major Arab newspapers, Al-Jarida and Al-Masri Al-Yawm, al-Sharif’s book repudiates what he calls “grave violations of Islamic law” that accompanied several Islamist movements’ forms of jihad. These acts include murder based on one’s nationality, the color of one’s skin, or one’s religious beliefs, and the wrongful destruction of property. The author explicitly states that such violations are “cause for disappointment in this world and shame and censure in the next,” because “nothing incurs the wrath and rancor of the Lord like the unjust shedding of blood and destruction of wealth.” Al-Sharif forbids attacks of any kind on tourists or foreign residents in Muslim countries, arguing that tourism is a legitimate act in Islam. In contrast to al Qaeda, al-Sharif forbids Muslims from engaging in any acts of violence in the foreign countries in which they live or visit, ruling that it would be a betrayal of the permission given to them by these governments in the form of a visa. Indeed, al-Sharif even forbids Muslims in foreign countries from breaking any national laws. Through such judgments, the author redefines the relationship between the West and resident Muslims in terms that differ radically from those of contemporary jihadists. In more than one section, he also stresses the absolute prohibition on the attack and murder of civilians, whether in Muslim or non-Muslim countries, and even in cases of war.

But particularly notable for a man whose thinking laid the groundwork for a radical Islamist uprising in Egypt, the author forbids taking up arms against Muslim rulers. He cites the heavy losses his own group inflicted on Egypt’s society, state, and jihadi groups themselves. The sheikh completes his rejection and his critique of the ideas and practices of al Qaeda and similar groups with the declaration of a general rule: “Those who identify themselves as Muslims cannot be harmed because of sectarian differences.” Here he has in mind the murder of Shiites, which represents a fundamental break with the practices and thought of al Qaeda, especially in Iraq. In several sections, al-Sharif launches a stringent attack on groups in the orbit of al Qaeda for deviating from the correct rules for jihad, accusing them of exploiting the enthusiasm of Muslim youth and sending them to their graves or prisons by convincing them to engage in acts that fall beyond a reasonable interpretation of religion.

In the end, al-Sharif reveals his newly redefined conception of jihad, which he still believes is one of the most noble practices in Islam. Yet, he sees it as defensive rather than offensive; every community has a right “to defend itself against aggressors. If this is a natural right upon which everyone has agreed, for Muslims it is a religious duty.”

Of course, it was to be expected that some jihadi circles would raise objections because the author and his supporters among Egyptian Jihad are in prison. Zawahiri himself accused al-Sharif of being coerced into changing his ideas. Al-Sharif, however, claims his new thinking is his own, and he issued a statement last year that cited important historical examples of prominent Muslim scholars and clerics who had written their major works while in prison. In December, Zawahiri again released a speech discussing al-Sharif’s new work, promising that al Qaeda would soon issue a “detailed response.”

Internal squabbles aside, this book should matter to those who long to understand the roots and nuances of jihadi thought—and how to curb it. In all likelihood, it will prompt a state of unprecedented confusion within the ranks of the international jihadi movement, starting with al Qaeda. In fact, it is more likely that al-Sharif’s views will have a greater impact within al Qaeda than on the newer jihadi groups: Members of the former are more familiar with al-Sharif’s work and have already been influenced by him, whereas the newer groups follow the thought of other contemporary ideologues more closely. Whether such splintering ultimately makes the world more dangerous remains an open question. One thing is certain, though: Having such an important leader so publicly diverge from this violent movement and its vision can only be a victory for the civilized world

 

[R_not]

I didn’t realize that. As I have noted before I have never used ‘mo’, or ‘big mo’, but always mohammed. I used Paki because of typing and for no other reason. Since I have been called a kafir by planten - name calling is an ok thing if they do it! Although I do wear that name with pride since it just confirms that I will not be one of its apologists.

 

[Sam_777]

yes, part of this verse is true, but part is not. What we see even in many converts from Europe and our own lands is their eagerness to go wage jihad. There are many ‘Johnny Walkers’ that train in the Middle East.

Remember that was more than 3000 years back, plus Islam allows unlimited polygamy and unlimited right-hand posses, and don’t forget the Islamic conquests in the west, from those early days till now surely Ishmael descendants genetics have altered many people (Arabs and non Arabs).

 

[Valke2]

It’s all part of the world Zionist conspiracy - you were supposed to helping us ot on another thread by telling us about Judaism and you don’t even know about the special rays Jews are shining on Muslims to convert them!!! I hear they use the seeds of these trees they hide behind to provide the fuel for the rays…

We would never waste such precious seeds. We don’t want to run out of hiding places.