Why are muslims so violent?

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Booklover said:
That depends on what you consider as “fighting”. Am I innocent when I denounce Islam? Am I not considered a kaffir and worthy of being killed for doing that?

Vickie
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Are you attacking Muslims or Islam?
 
Sister_Amy said:
Wow… do you mean… that… maybe even what you read in Holy Scripture shouldn’t necessarily be taken at face value?
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What hypocrisy! Haven’t you yourself stated that Muslims are not allowed to interpret their scriptures on their own? Haven’t you been saying that we need Islamic interpretations of violent verses. And you still have not answered what I asked you, but I won’t hold my breath!

Vickie
 
Booklover said:
What hypocrisy! Haven’t you yourself stated that Muslims are not allowed to interpret their scriptures on their own? Haven’t you been saying that we need Islamic interpretations of violent verses. And you still have not answered what I asked you, but I won’t hold my breath!

Vickie
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Hypocrisy? What hypocrise. Muslims ARE NOT allowed to interpret the Qur’an on their own, not without training.

So why then should non-Muslims be able to interpret the Qur’an? That would be a double standard, right? So I suggested you needed an interpretation. (And by the way I did answer on the last page or two pages.)

You are saying the same thing, that Christians shouldn’t take the Bible at face value–they should read the footnotes, according to you, to find the valid interpretation.

I am essentially asking you to read the “footnotes” on the Qur’an–to seek out the context and meaning of the verses instead of just taking them at face value. Exactly the same advice you just gave to the other poster.

That’s quite the opposite of hypocrisy. 🙂
 
Booklover said:
What hypocrisy! Haven’t you yourself stated that Muslims are not allowed to interpret their scriptures on their own? Haven’t you been saying that we need Islamic interpretations of violent verses. And you still have not answered what I asked you, but I won’t hold my breath!

Vickie
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How about interpreting violent versus in the holy bible?
 
Sister_Amy said:
Hypocrisy? What hypocrise. Muslims ARE NOT allowed to interpret the Qur’an on their own, not without training.

So why then should non-Muslims be able to interpret the Qur’an? That would be a double standard, right? So I suggested you needed an interpretation. (And by the way I did answer on the last page or two pages.)

You are saying the same thing, that Christians shouldn’t take the Bible at face value–they should read the footnotes, according to you, to find the valid interpretation.

I am essentially asking you to read the “footnotes” on the Qur’an–to seek out the context and meaning of the verses instead of just taking them at face value. Exactly the same advice you just gave to the other poster.

That’s quite the opposite of hypocrisy. 🙂
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Where are the footnotes of the Quran?

Vickie
 
tomarin said:
Well we agree about the latter part, but do you understand why it’s problematic for someone who doesn’t practice a religion to know better than the practitioner what it’s about?
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Why? Someone cannot study a religion and know it? sister amy is a convert to it and doesn’t even know - or won’t admit - to many of the koran’s teachigs, mohammed’s history or that of his followers, the violence of jihad against others, and admit that the surahs that she posted time and again were abrogated. Basically that is just a partial list of what she won’t deal with.

Now, what we have are people being converted and not being told about many of these things. They are not even supposed to question all of these things - and too often they are reprimanded, or in countries where sharia laws are intact - they are tortured and/or killed for questioning their own religion. And that is for muslims - they do worse to non-muslims! Most of their indignation over our knowledge is that they are told us infidels/kufir are not supposed to question, discuss, or anything such as that about islam.

I don’t have to be a Zorastrian to know Zorastrianism.

I also realize there are different sorts of muslims with the term ‘moderate’ being a Western term - a wish. I have listened to a talk given by two muslims - one a so called ‘moderate’ and another a ‘reformist’. Now, it is the reformist that I give creedence to as to being truthful - she was the only one able to admit what islam was and what she would wish it to be. She minced no words, and even said the silence of ‘moderates’ is what emboldens the ‘radicals’. (keep in mind these are our terms - not a muslim’s terms or definitions.)

I am giving you things to read and listen to - I would advise to read and listen to them.

Here is an interesting video about ‘who speaks for islam’

Read post 817 and 818 in Ask about Islam 2. That has many things to read and listen to as to what is going on with so called ‘moderates’.
 
**There are good or bad ppl in every community. It just that Muslims get more media attention.

I would just ask christians here to plz read the hisotry of christians, christianity, Crusades etc.**
 
Part of the issues that I have stem from Submission. I am fine with a submission to God. I cannot see how it is not also a submission to man when there are taxes required of non-Muslims, execution for apostates, no public worship allowed for non-Muslims, no building of churches, requirements to follow Shiara laws, food restrictions, clothing restriction, etc, all the while saying that there is no compulsion in religion.

I am just confused.
 
R_not said:
Why? Someone cannot study a religion and know it? sister amy is a convert to it and doesn’t even know - or won’t admit - to many of the koran’s teachigs, mohammed’s history or that of his followers, the violence of jihad against others, and admit that the surahs that she posted time and again were abrogated.
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You don’t need to be a Zoroastrian to know about Zoroastrianism. But when a Zoroastrian and a non-Zoroastrian disagree about what the religion teaches, it’s only common sense that the Zoroastrian’s opinion holds more weight.

That’s why I brought up the Mary worship issue. If you’re right then it is entirely possibly for a Protestant to have the final word on whether we “worship” her or not (patently ridiculous as that obviously is).

As for Amy, I think she seems very well informed about Islam, far better than you are. The posts of yours I have read are so one-sided and emotional that I don’t trust you to make a fair assessment of it.
 
Catholics, Muslim quoting versus in their respective books of the holy, trying to prove and interpret violent meanings in each for what? This is a bad game of one up-man-ship. It seems the goal is to demean and level the other so whoever you are, you may look down from on high and somehow claim the higher ground. It’s more like a race for last place?😊
 
ralphinal said:
Part of the issues that I have stem from Submission. I am fine with a submission to God. I cannot see how it is not also a submission to man when there are taxes required of non-Muslims, execution for apostates, no public worship allowed for non-Muslims, no building of churches, requirements to follow Shiara laws, food restrictions, clothing restriction, etc, all the while saying that there is no compulsion in religion.

I am just confused.
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With all respect, Ralph, many of these things you’ve listed aren’t even true.

Taxes required of non-Muslims? Yes. Instead of Muslims? No. Muslims have to pay taxes anyway and fulfill other obligations to a Muslim government–the only thing non-Muslims have to do is pay this tax. And if I may give an example–when the rulers of Jerusalem were not able to defend the city’s Jews against an attacking army, the tax funds were returned to the Jews! It is money with a specific purpose.

And remember that we all pay taxes anyway, right?

Non-Muslims are allowed to worship in public, and build houses of worship (Look at Egypt, for instance, and the construction of churches there.). Non-Muslims certainly don’t have to follow Shari’ah law–they’re encouraged to implement their own court systems.
 
Sister_Amy said:
With all respect, Ralph, many of these things you’ve listed aren’t even true.

Taxes required of non-Muslims? Yes. Instead of Muslims? No. Muslims have to pay taxes anyway and fulfill other obligations to a Muslim government–the only thing non-Muslims have to do is pay this tax. And if I may give an example–when the rulers of Jerusalem were not able to defend the city’s Jews against an attacking army, the tax funds were returned to the Jews! It is money with a specific purpose.

And remember that we all pay taxes anyway, right?

Non-Muslims are allowed to worship in public, and build houses of worship (Look at Egypt, for instance, and the construction of churches there.). Non-Muslims certainly don’t have to follow Shari’ah law–they’re encouraged to implement their own court systems.
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I did not mean to imply that non-Muslims were the only ones taxed. Sorry about that. However, is it fair to tax someone for their religious choice when there is no compulsion in religion?

AS for the other things, why is it for each example you can give, we can give others to counter it? I know that it is because of sinful man corrupting God’s words, but why can they follow the no alcohol or covering of women so well but not allow for freedom of worship?
 
ralphinal said:
I did not mean to imply that non-Muslims were the only ones taxed. Sorry about that. However, is it fair to tax someone for their religious choice when there is no compulsion in religion?

AS for the other things, why is it for each example you can give, we can give others to counter it? I know that it is because of sinful man corrupting God’s words, but why can they follow the no alcohol or covering of women so well but not allow for freedom of worship?
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Raphinal:

Taxing was in same way u pay taxes in any country,
Infact Muslims were taxed more than non muslim.

So as It will be Islamic Goverment the Tax laws were drived frm Islam simple. Like u live in any country it has its laws.

and non muslim tax was less and that would also means that they wont had to take part along with muslim in case there is war time situation Muslims were resposible to protect non-muslim.

www.thetruecall.com
www.youtube.com/islamandfriends
 
Xiaahmad said:
Raphinal:

Taxing was in same way u pay taxes in any country,
Infact Muslims were taxed more than non muslim.

So as It will be Islamic Goverment the Tax laws were drived frm Islam simple. Like u live in any country it has its laws.

and non muslim tax was less and that would also means that they wont had to take part along with muslim in case there is war time situation Muslims were resposible to protect non-muslim.

www.thetruecall.com
www.youtube.com/islamandfriends
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If I am forced to pay one cent because I am Christian, then that is, in and of itself, a form of compulsion. Even if my taxes or responsibilities are less, it is not fair or ethical. How is this tax collected? Is it done in a humain and kind way or is it treated like a means of humiliation?
 
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