Why are people leaving the church

[Black_Knight_MI]

Then why does your public profile say “christian”???

Yeah, Jesuits are some of the most educated of our clergy, so I can’t see one not having the sense to properly capitalize the name “Christian”. Am I the only one that thinks that something just isn’t right with this poster?

I have to agree with Church Militant. "Priest, act like a priest!"
Blackie

 

[MyPhilomena]

Do something about it then. Get into the faith formation dept in your parish. Then share your faith with anyone who’ll listen.
God bless!

 

[InLight247]

Then don’t post like an anti-Catholic.
…

P.S. St. Ignatius Loyola is one of my heroes of faith and his Anima Christi, one of my most beloved prayers.

I have to agree with the above quote.
Please, let all of us try our best to be part of the solution, not re-emphasize the problem to become part of the problem.

Lord have mercy on us!

 

[JLM316]

I do not care what protestants do or Baptists or whatever…If they believe in God, they are brothers and sisters in Christ. I pray for them because they are missing the real truth.

whenever you use words like “real truth” just remember this is what non-Catholic Christians are saying about Catholics. They are praying for us to find the real truth, and we are praying for them to have the real truth. And God is up there listening to all this - thinking - you both have the truth - and keep misunderstanding each other. The protestants take away alot of what catholics believe because they don’t understand it, but we catholics also take stuff away from what they believe as well - there a lot of misunderstanding on both sides - and then are those of us who don’t engage in it because we know there is one LORD - read St. John 17. He desired that we all join with Him, and the Father through the Holy Spirit into a Holy union which is so mysterous that we cannot comprehend it. so we look on the surface only - and argue about the details on the surface when in fact what lies beneath - true faith - is the same for both of us. don’t engage in “real truth” arguments - its all on the surface - the real truth is in our hearts - and we share it with our protestant brothers and sisters.
Above all else - Guard your Heart, because it is the well spring of life - proverbs 4:23

 

[santaro75]

Got statistics and facts to back that up? I don’t think you do, which makes it anything but a fact. I have known many priests over the course of my life and not one…not one was gay. I think this is rhetorical equine fertilizer. I sure haven’t seen it.
Pax Domini sit semper vobiscum,

whatever. it is plain to see. I am not saying that a gay priest is a bad thing. celibacy is celibacy. But there are a lot of gay priests

 

[santaro75]

If I don’t arrive on time, you can bet I won’t get a parking. I don’t believe that nonsense about those leaving due to the reasons stated above…show proof!

you’re right. we are all just making it up

 

[solacristos]

There is a high percentage of Gay catholic priests. I know this for a fact and was surprised by this when i came back.
What gives?

Because they are Gay! It does not require divine revelation to see that. I know this from the inside being a jesuit.

 

[SteakNPotatoes]

Well, I can only speak for myself here.

I left Catholicism during the priest sex scandal. The last time I went to Mass, the homily was centered on why we should keep giving money despite this “challenge”. That was it for me and my wife. We left and did not return. That was 3+ years ago.

To be honest, it wasn’t the priests who sinned that prompted my leaving - it was the bureaucratic a**-covering that followed. I have no respect for and will not submit myself to the authority of men whose desire for power and authority overrides their commitment to the ideals they are supposed to uphold. The bishops came face to face with evil and chose to hide it and/or ignore it in the interest of maintaining their power. That, to me, is unpardonable.

Of course, there were other issues that had been building within which made leaving all the more easy, but the catalyst was the bureacratic bungling in this issue.

Of course, here at the Catholic Forum, I don’t expect to hear “Amen, Brother” for the above viewpoint, but I offer it nevertheless.

 

[santaro75]

Because they are Gay! It does not require divine revelation to see that. I know this from the inside being a jesuit.

It is true. And people take notice. Some people are so blind to the obvious. like mothers are sometimes blind to their children.

 

[santaro75]

Well, I can only speak for myself here.

I left Catholicism during the priest sex scandal. The last time I went to Mass, the homily was centered on why we should keep giving money despite this “challenge”. That was it for me and my wife. We left and did not return. That was 3+ years ago.

To be honest, it wasn’t the priests who sinned that prompted my leaving - it was the bureaucratic a**-covering that followed. I have no respect for and will not submit myself to the authority of men whose desire for power and authority overrides their commitment to the ideals they are supposed to uphold. The bishops came face to face with evil and chose to hide it and/or ignore it in the interest of maintaining their power. That, to me, is unpardonable.

Of course, there were other issues that had been building within which made leaving all the more easy, but the catalyst was the bureacratic bungling in this issue.

Of course, here at the Catholic Forum, I don’t expect to hear “Amen, Brother” for the above viewpoint, but I offer it nevertheless.

Amen brother! These people belong in prison. they can be forgiven by GOD but must pay the societal price for their crimes of sexual abuse and of hiding and protecting criminals. I think it was handled so poorly and I will never fully trust a bishop again.

i just can’t believe that the same guy who has the power to excommunicate you thus sending you to hell would abuse his office like that.

The mass however is beyond all this filth so you should come back.

 

[ComradeAndrei]

Of course, it’s not more important. But there’s nothing wrong with wanting to go to Sunday brunch, either. Indeed, it is yet another way of honoring the Lord’s Day. So if the Church can accomodate that for people, why is doing so a bad thing?

It is late breakfast with mellon-whoopdie do. The day should revolve around Mass-if brunch would conflict with Mass then one should not try to make Mass accomodate brunch.

Besides, everywhere I’ve ever been there are plenty of Mass times that a person could assist at and there really is no excuse on account of tee times, kickoffs, brunch, hunting, etc. etc. ad nauseam.

 

[gell]

Here is a good clue to the answer to question 1.

Role-playing gamers and the fall of the church
republic-news.org/archive/92-repub/92_nenonen.htm

And a partial answer to question 2?

Roll your sleeves up and stop “multiculturalism” and the unlimited immigration policy that brings in millions of non_Catholic unassimilables into the Western countries, causing them to be swamped with a confusing schwarmerei of competing “organizing fantasy” options.

“A role-playing game, or RPG, is a form of interactive storytelling. One player assumes the role of storyteller, and is responsible for designing the imaginary environment in which the game will be played. The kinds of environments storytellers create follow the categories of pulp fiction: fantasy, science-fiction, horror, and so on. The other players create characters suitable for the environment chosen.”

That is not an RPG. In fact, I don’t know a single game like that… and I’m a gamer.

So really, the author of that article was just dribbling **** with his seemingly profound analysis.

 

[Black_Knight_MI]

whatever. it is plain to see. I am not saying that a gay priest is a bad thing. celibacy is celibacy. But there are a lot of gay priests

Without proof this is just an ill-informed opinion.

I disagree…it’s not “plain to see”, these are the words of rash generalization…just like “everybody knows”…and other such phrases.
Blackie

 

[InLight247]

It is hurtful to see scandals. However, please remember Catholic Church is the Apostolic Church, the Church came from our Lord Jesus, this is the Church has the Eucharist, the Sacraments. Would we deny our parents and change our last name because there are family members misbehaved?

As long as there are people, there are problems. We are all sinners, fallen creatures. That is not to say we can find excuses to sin, but it is to say we don’t desert our faith due to human sinfulness of certain clergies. Jesus told us to forgive seventy times seven times.

Can we stop scandalizing the unfortunate incidents? In my prayers.

 

[Black_Knight_MI]

Because they are Gay! It does not require divine revelation to see that. I know this from the inside being a jesuit.

Here’s another case of assertion without any proof.

Personally, I have to question the veracity of your statements.
Blackie

 

[santaro75]

Without proof this is just an ill-informed opinion.

I disagree…it’s not “plain to see”, these are the words of rash generalization…just like “everybody knows”…and other such phrases.
Blackie

Well, all i can say is that after spending a few years working almost exclusively around all gay men, I can usually with about 95% accuracy tell if a guy is gay or not within a short amount of time. Most who I have talked to who have had this experience would say the same thing. you learn to pick up on it really easily.

I have also talked to ex priests where i worked (before i came back to the church) and they said that it is a very gay insititution I don’t necessarily believe them because I figured there are reasons they are ex priests.

 

[solacristos]

Lots of homo priests out there for sure! God help us!

 

[Cat]

Why are people leaving the Church?

Here are my ideas. (I am a former Evangelical Protestant who was received into the Catholic Church in 2004.)

1. Lack of prayer. We need to pray that the Holy Spirit will lead His children home. Although many Catholic church-goers pray, many don’t.
2. Sin. People want to sin, and the Catholic Church teaches conviction, contrition, confession, penance, repentance (turning from sin). This isn’t what people want to hear. They want to hear that we are forgiven for all of our sins, past, present, and furture and that no sin will separate us from God and heaven. OR they want to hear that there is no such thing as sin.
3. Orthodoxy. The Catholic Church refuses to waver on orthodox teachings like abortion and homosexuality. People don’t agree with this, and so they leave rather than being hypocrites. I say Good for them. Better to leave than hang around and cause complain.
4. Lack of love. The Lord said that they’ll know we’re believers because of our love for each other. I recommend that the Church not only offer the improved catechesis, but also offer love, practical love that helps with chores, provides meals during sickness or a family crisis or the birth of a baby, invites people over for a meal or out for pizza, sends get well and happy birthday cards–there are hundreds of ways for parishioners to demonstrate practical LOVE to their own fellow parishioners. We shouldn’t stop feeding the hungry or clothing the poor, but we shouldn’t forget about our own church people either. We need to LOVE each other. THAT will bring people in, and keep people from leaving.
5. Personal conflicts. I talked to a Catholic woman yesterday who has two daughters who have left the Church. In both cases, it was personal. Someone got into it with them over who knows what, and they were offended to the point of leaving. We need to take seriously Matthew 18, and be reconciled to our brothers BEFORE we make our offering (take Communion). We shouldn’t let the sun go down on our anger. Ticking someone off can have devastating consequences. Yes, the “offended person” should just swallow it and come on back. But when you are hurt or have been beaten up by a fellow “Christian” in your own church, you really don’t have the strength to come on back and join in the “fellowship.” Fellowship–what a joke to someone who has been hurt! We need to seek healing for all the hurts we have caused deliberately or inadvertantly.
6. I don’t think it’s lack of tradition or too much tradition. A home is appealing not because of the decor (antique vs. modern) or the background music (classical vs. alternative rock) or the outfits that the hosts are wearing (formalwear vs. shorts and tank tops)–a home is appealing because the people in it love each other and practive hospitality, and because the home provides a haven for the weary.
7. Lack of connection. I started playing the piano in church when I was in 6th grade. I had a PLACE in my church, a responsibility. I was necessary to the church. I think that when people are plugged in and allowed to use their spiritual gifts and natural talents, they will feel like they belong and that if they leave, people will miss them. When someone has no “job” in the church, they walk away. I think this is especially true of teenagers–they need to be utilized as often as possible in the Church, not just as altar servers, but as helpers in children’s classes (VBS), prayer warriors, tutors, cantors, musicians, etc.

 

[Black_Knight_MI]

It is true. And people take notice. Some people are so blind to the obvious. like mothers are sometimes blind to their children.

Or people make unfounded assertions that are not in evidence.

Are there gay priests? Apparently there are. Are they as prevelent as you and our supposed Jesuit assert? I doubt it very seriously. Why? Because I have not seen anyone that makes me think they are gay.

Are there gay posters here on CAF? Probably. Some say they are. Are they prevelent here at CAF? Not that I can tell from interacting with other members here.

Are you and our supposed Jesuit gay? It’s possible I suppose, but I have no evidence to support that, and so I doubt it until you prove otherwise.

Did a sex abuse scandal occur? Yep! Did some bishops cover for them? Yep! Are they still in charge? Nope. Does any of this invalidate the truths of the Catholic faith? Nope.

Is this the only reason that people supposedly leave the faith? Hardly, though it may be one factor. I can’t help their weakness anymore than I can help the weakness of the men who fell into these sins. Is any of this a valid reason to depart from the Catholic faith? Absolutely not.

Are people wholesale fleeing the Catholic faith? Not that I have seen and in fact I see a lot more coming into the church than I see departing, and these new Catholics are coming into/returning to the church knowing all these things already, which should speak volumes to those who make the kind of remarks that you and the supposed Jesuit have made.
Blackie

 

[Saint_Michael]

I left the Church after reading this document posted on this forum. I had no idea the levels of deception those in charge of us will go to, to try and protect the Church from scandal, even making clergy be sworn to secrecy by an oath under threat of excomunication.

news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/bsp/hi/pdfs/28_09_06_Crimen_english.pdf

It’s a Vatican document, and I read all 39 pages of it, and my decision to leave was obvious to me. Turth is I’m still in a bit of shock from it and I don’t know where I go from here.