Why are people mormon considering it is obvioulsy fabricated?

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Religio71 said:
No it doesn’t. and here is why:

Can. 1364 §1. Without prejudice to the prescript of ⇒ can. 194, §1, n. 2, an apostate from the faith, a heretic, or a schismatic incurs a latae sententiae excommunication; in addition, a cleric can be punished with the penalties mentioned in ⇒ can. 1336, §1, nn. 1, 2, and 3.

By being baptized into the LDS faith, or any other non-Catholic or Orthodox faith, you are now excommunicated latae sententiae. But of course, if you don’t believe in the totality of Catholicism, which is apparent that you don’t, this is ok with you. Because if you believe you’re a Catholic, or an apostle, or a prophet, that’s all that matters, not what the actual Truth that our faiths teach says.
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You are right on target.👍
 
why_me said:
True and the ones that are not tend to be the most vocal and judgemental of mormonism. It is quite a contradiction since those that are intolerent do not live their catholic faith and should go to confession for their harsh words.
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God gave me a brain and it is reasonable to assume that God does not give things to us and expect us to do nothing with them. While I am entirely supportive of being unfailingly polite and tolerant to all PEOPLE (and do my best to make amends when I fall down) there is absolutely no requirement for me to be tolerant of something, trotted out as truth, that has been proven beyond a shadow of any reasonable doubt to be a complete sham.

The Book of Mormon story is clearly a sham, the evidence for this is overwhelming and well documented, and has been discussed on this forum routinely, there is no need to repeat the evidence endlessly, it can be easily researched. This is not “anti-Mormon” propaganda, no matter how much any Mormon might want to believe it it, it’s FACTS. Confronted with the facts, many Mormons still cling to their faith, and that’s fine if they want to do that. Some are even on record in this forum as saying, in so many words, that even if THEY THEMSELVES knew the Book of Mormon was false, that they would still believe. That’s their choice.

Many Mormons pointing the accusatory finger of “intolerance” appear to be unable to distinguish between tolerance of persons and tolerance of a belief system. I have many many Mormon friends, some of whom I have been friends with for over 40 years. I am not intolerant of Mormons as people. Further, I would expect to be gracious and tolerant towards any person, even a stranger.

That does not mean that I am obligated to be tolerant of a faith based on a fraud. The Book of Mormon is clearly a fraud. The fact that many Mormons are very nice people does not lend any legitimacy to the book, it does not change the facts.

If someone is unwilling or unable to distinguish between tolerance of people and tolerance of ideology, they own that problem and they are the ones that need to find a way to resolve it within themselves. They have no right or legitimacy to run around accusing anyone of intolerance. If I am intolerant, it would be of that sort of behavior ~ the kind that runs around and accuses people of all sorts of bad behavior without any basis to do so.
 
ParkerD said:
This is the kind of post I had talked about early on in this thread, about a religious belief based on fear. The New Testament teaches of religion based on faith, not fear. Joseph Smith sought and received true religion based on faith, not fear. Truth is empowered by faith, not fear. As one receives the fruits of the Spirit and feels the power of change and sanctification working in their own life, they have a knowledge that can’t be influenced by the kind of fear-based “warning” that comes from those who have been brought up to fear God’s wrath rather than to rejoice in God’s love for all humankind, and His loving tenderness toward their progress in life and their attempts to live their lives with love in their hearts for everyone they meet. I love the phrase, “brethren, adieu.” I think it evokes love and tenderness and a fond farewell better than any other word that could have been used in that phrase.
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While nice and all, it is not reflective of your church’s teachings.
 
wademann said:
I am married to a non-mormon, when I told my bishop that paying my tithing was causing friction in my marriage, he said that it was OK to not pay.
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That is certainly not the official LDS Church position. Tithing is not optional for LDS. But it does show the wide latitude these unpaid (and untrained) local volunteer bishops have to make judgment calls and affect people’s lives. He could just have easily told you that you, as the priesthood holder in the home, must set the righteous example for your wife by paying a full tithe.
 
why_me said:
I have said over and over again that no church is perfect since they are made up human beings who can be quite imperfect. Now can one be catholic and lds? Why not. I was born catholic and christened in the catholic church at birth. I made my communion and confirmation. I was baptised into the mormon faith at 18. That makes me both mormon and catholic. Am I right?
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Nope. For Jesus said:

No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon (Matthew 6:24, KJV)
 
Religio71 said:
No one said that Mormons are “under the influence of satan” :rolleyes:

:rolleyes:
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What about this post on the same thread?

robert7685
New Member Join Date: June 29, 2008
Posts: 5
Religion: catholic

Re: Why are people mormon considering it is obvioulsy fabricated?
Quote:

The Devil created what appears
to be good. To illustrate my point, I refer you to the story of Eve being tempted in the Garden of Eden. If you are familiar with it, you will know that the serpent mixed truth in with lies. In doing so he made the trap all the more insideous and effective. He promised that they would not die (lie) and that they would be as gods, knowing good and evil (truth). Let’s examine your list.
1.Pray to heavenly father often. The LDS concept of God is incorrect. Rather than teaching of the trinity they teach of multiple gods when the Bible makes it clear that there is only one God.
2. Remain chaste That is truth, mixed in to help create confusion.
3. Obey the commandments Also truth.
4. Read the Scriptures. Correction. Read what the LDS view as scripture, which can include the Book Of Mormon, the Doctrine & Covenants, the Pearl Of Great Price, and words spoken by Church Leaders. Of course the bible is included in the list, but with footnotes leading to a “Joseph Smith Translation” that adds verses and even whole passages. These notes also reordered other verses. All of this was done to back up LDS teachings which otherwise would appear to be incorrect.(i.e. "In my Father’s house there are many mansions was changed via footnote to say “there are many kingdoms,” undoubtedly to lend credibility to the teaching about different heavens.

you must have missed this one. He also claimed the same thing earlier.
 
cthulhubryan said:
Nope. For Jesus said:

No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon (Matthew 6:24, KJV)
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Since mormons and catholics have the same master, god, your post does not comply. Two masters: god or the things of the world would be more to the point.
 
PaulDupre said:
That is certainly not the official LDS Church position. Tithing is not optional for LDS. But it does show the wide latitude these unpaid (and untrained) local volunteer bishops have to make judgment calls and affect people’s lives. He could just have easily told you that you, as the priesthood holder in the home, must set the righteous example for your wife by paying a full tithe.
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Much does depend on the lds bishop. But that is the way it usually is. I know catholics who like certain priests because they are easier in confession. And they try to avoid the more beat you over the head priest. But for mormons, they only have one bishop in their ward and so, they are stuck with the personality for better or worse.
 
why_me said:
Since mormons and catholics have the same master, god, your post does not comply. Two masters: god or the things of the world would be more to the point.
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That would be correct if not for the King Follet discourse and the idea that Jesus and God are separate deities.
 
RebeccaJ said:
While nice and all, it is not reflective of your church’s teachings.
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Difficult to say. I think that fear is playing less of a role. But it is still there among a certain mindset. My daughters have no fear. They understand god’s mercy. But they are a new generation. I am sure that it is the same in the catholic faith. Many recovering catholics left because of guilt and fear, especially of my generation. And when the sex and abuse scandal broke they saw some vindication since it were the priests and nuns instilling fear when they were young.

But now I think that times have changed. I see no fear being instilled in the catholic faith. I do see much about god’s mercy.
 
cthulhubryan said:
That would be correct if not for the King Follet discourse and the idea that Jesus and God are separate deities.
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In the whole scheme of things I don’t think that god minds the Follet sermons. The world is so full of evil these days that god most likely doesn’t care about who thinks what about the trinity. Now if Joseph Smith were a fraudster he got his when he faced God along with his accomplices. But for the rest of the believing mormons, god does not mind at all as long as mormons lead good lives and attempt to live holy lives obeying his commandments. Of course, that is only my opinion.
 
why_me said:
Since mormons and catholics have the same master, god, your post does not comply. Two masters: god or the things of the world would be more to the point.
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We actually believe in different Gods, sorry. That’s like saying Hindus believe in the same God as Catholics.
 
MelanieAnne said:
God gave me a brain and it is reasonable to assume that God does not give things to us and expect us to do nothing with them. While I am entirely supportive of being unfailingly polite and tolerant to all PEOPLE (and do my best to make amends when I fall down) there is absolutely no requirement for me to be tolerant of something, trotted out as truth, that has been proven beyond a shadow of any reasonable doubt to be a complete sham.

The Book of Mormon story is clearly a sham, the evidence for this is overwhelming and well documented, and has been discussed on this forum routinely, there is no need to repeat the evidence endlessly, it can be easily researched. .
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I think that you are wrong. No one has proved that Joseph Smith wrote the book of mormon. Not have they proven that someone else wrote the book. And the 11 witnesses to the book of mormon never denied their testimony of the book of mormon even on their deathbed many claimed it has the truth.

But lets explore the word sham. Is luthernism a sham? You will need to say yes. Is methodism a sham? You will also need to say yes. Are all the faiths within protestantism a sham? You will need to say yes. In fact, you will need to call all religion except the catholic faith a sham. Good luck in convincing people that are of different faiths that they are living a sham.

And correct me if I am wrong but were you not one of the more tolerant catholics toward the catholic faith awhile back? Maybe it was a different poster.
 
why_me said:
I think that you are wrong. No one has proved that Joseph Smith wrote the book of mormon. Not have they proven that someone else wrote the book. And the 11 witnesses to the book of mormon never denied their testimony of the book of mormon even on their deathbed many claimed it has the truth.

But lets explore the word sham. Is luthernism a sham? You will need to say yes. Is methodism a sham? You will also need to say yes. Are all the faiths within protestantism a sham? You will need to say yes. In fact, you will need to call all religion except the catholic faith a sham. Good luck in convincing people that are of different faiths that they are living a sham.

And correct me if I am wrong but were you not one of the more tolerant catholics toward the catholic faith awhile back? Maybe it was a different poster.
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:rolleyes: Of course we believe Protestantism is a sham and false! The Catholic Church is the one true Church.

So when Jesus said to go out and baptize people and preach the Gospel, he should have also said “good luck in convincing people that are of different faiths that they are living a sham”?
 
why_me said:
Difficult to say. I think that fear is playing less of a role. But it is still there among a certain mindset. My daughters have no fear. They understand god’s mercy. But they are a new generation. I am sure that it is the same in the catholic faith. Many recovering catholics left because of guilt and fear, especially of my generation. And when the sex and abuse scandal broke they saw some vindication since it were the priests and nuns instilling fear when they were young.

But now I think that times have changed. I see no fear being instilled in the catholic faith. I do see much about god’s mercy.
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Do you consider yourself a “recovering Catholic”?
 
why_me said:
I think that you are wrong. No one has proved that Joseph Smith wrote the book of mormon. Not have they proven that someone else wrote the book. And the 11 witnesses to the book of mormon never denied their testimony of the book of mormon even on their deathbed many claimed it has the truth.
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All this is moot, if you are Catholic.
 
why_me said:
I think that you are wrong. No one has proved that Joseph Smith wrote the book of mormon. Not have they proven that someone else wrote the book. And the 11 witnesses to the book of mormon never denied their testimony of the book of mormon even on their deathbed many claimed it has the truth.

But lets explore the word sham. Is luthernism a sham? You will need to say yes. Is methodism a sham? You will also need to say yes. Are all the faiths within protestantism a sham? You will need to say yes. In fact, you will need to call all religion except the catholic faith a sham. Good luck in convincing people that are of different faiths that they are living a sham.

And correct me if I am wrong but were you not one of the more tolerant catholics toward the catholic faith awhile back? Maybe it was a different poster.
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Re: Tolerant catholics toward the catholic faith ~ I have no idea what you’re talking about, you are apparently confusing me with someone else.

Having said that, since I am Catholic, I am tolerant of Catholics. 😃 I am also tolerant of people of other faiths. That doesn’t mean I like false faiths.

As for the Book of Mormon, it is interesting to see a Mormon hypothesize that Joseph Smith did not write the Book of Mormon. However, that is besides the point. The point is that the Mormon faith has, as its foundation, the Book of Mormon and related documents and the Book of Mormon has been shown to be demonstrably false for numerous reasons.

The same cannot be said for Christian faiths such as those you listed.
 
diggerdomer said:
I think the Church approaches it in a much better way see CCC 817 ff. scborromeo.org/ccc/p123a9p3.htm#I I don’t think the Church teaches anywhere that any Protestant denomination is a sham and simply false. If you know otherwise please enlighten us. Thanks.
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You do know that the Catholic Church is the true Church of Jesus Christ, with the fullness of Truth? Other groups have some truths, but the rest of it is false beliefs that don’t originate in God.

Do you believe that or not?
 
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