P
PaulDupre
Guest
I’m very reverent, thank-you-very-much.
Seriously though, I have to get up for work in 6 hours. So I’ll post a reply tomorrow night.
Sleep well, all.
Why are people mormon considering it is obvioulsy fabricated?
- Status
Seriously though, I have to get up for work in 6 hours. So I’ll post a reply tomorrow night.
Sleep well, all.
D
Dee_Dee_King
Guest
great question. if you haven’t noticed, mormons tend to feel like they are being persecuted all the time and cry woes me when you point out how ridiculous their faith is. some catholics don’t like it either. i like arguing, i like challenging people’s beliefs and i enjoy listening to atheists.
what brought me back to my catholic faith was how it was so reasonable. I have a mostly secular education and work as a physical scientist so i tend to look at it very critically. we are catholic because we believe in Jesus’s resurrection proving the he was God. the new testament can be viewed as a generally accurate historical account. i have no reason to think it’s made up because historians at the time of Jesus verify much in there. then you have to ask yourself why did all of the apostles die for Jesus if he wasn’t resurrected. islam conquered people into their bogus faith, not so with early christianity. and there is the witness of the saints and the miracles attributed to them. together with legitimate cases of demonic possession and haunting makes the catholic church entirely reasonable. basically approach the new testament as an accurate historical document and you can easily show how the catholic faith is the one true faith.
as for debunking things in the bible i’m not sure what you mean. some of the old testament is obviously not to be taken literally, but the new testament are first hand accounts of Jesus and the early church. i don’t see much in there that makes me think it has been debunked, unlike the BOM.
Trust me, I’ll be the first one to walk away from my faith if the new testament is shown to be an unreliably account of Jesus. We have manuscripts from the 2nd century or even earlier from all over the world in different languages and they all agree with one another.
D
dianaiad
Guest
Yes, I did. see post #1010; it was actually the first verse/incident mentioned.
Yes.
The Lamanite could have developed and domesticated corn because somebody did.
Sorry, there simply wasn’t enough time for the Lamanites to find the wild plant from which maize was developed, and to develop it into what it ultimately became. Not to mention that maize was domesticated and used in the Americas for nearly 8000 years.
Which sorta lets us know that someone else developed it.
Or, Joseph Smith translated the Book of Mormon, and some of his opinions about what it actually said are in error, because he didn’t, y’know, WRITE it. He translated it.
D
dianaiad
Guest
Oh, I deserved that !!!I’m very reverent, thank-you-very-much.
Seriously though, I have to get up for work in 6 hours. So I’ll post a reply tomorrow night.
Sleep well, all.
That’ll teach me to post under the influence of no sleep–and to trust the spell checker!
Have a very reverent evening, Paul…
Oh, and 'call for references, please" she asks, with all due reverence…
D
Dee_Dee_King
Guest
this reminds me of dumb and dumber. just substitute the chance of the BOM being true instead of Lloyd and Mary being together.
this kind of logic is great to laugh at but it’s not good to defend you faith with.
D
dianaiad
Guest
Well, it’s rather rude, not to mention extremely counterproductive, to tell a true believer that his or her faith is ‘ridiculous.’
Counterproductive, too. Not to mention…well, dumb. I mean, why do you do that? Are you trying to do them a favor and get them to see the light or something?
Won’t work, y’know. Nobody EVER changed his religion because his own was sufficiently insulted.
Of course, if the purpose is to make you feel smarter than thou, or to crow over other people’s stupidity (and by doing so, ensure that they keep their opinions intact) I suppose you are going about it the right way.
D
Dee_Dee_King
Guest
it is ridiculous. i’m sorry that this hurts your feelings. mormonism taught that blacks were cursed by God and couldn’t be priests and it’s not ok to drink tea and coffee/hot beverages. this defines stupidity. i have dark skin, your faith insults me.
D
dianaiad
Guest
Well, Dee Dee, I married a man with dark skin, and my kids (though they can ‘pass’) can also check off the ‘African-American’ box if they are asked.
The day that the priesthood was extended to all worthy men (about, oh, thirty years ago), the change was greeted…not with fire hoses and marshals and riots, but with joy.
So an entire generation has been born and raised since that day in 1978, and are raising their own children. The only way THEY know to be racist is because people like you accuse them of it.
Grow up.
W
why_me
Guest
There are many african-americans in the lds faith and people with dark skin too. The US church and the latin american lds church have many members with dark skin. No problems at all.
I would agree that Brigham Young made mistakes with his opinions but he was also a man of his time and a human being. But the lds church would never deny an african american membership in its church and there were no segregated churches. And I am sure that when it came to racism, it was less prevalent in the lds churches among its members than many other churches.
It would also be important to get a mormon perspective on it. You may find that you have been misinformed. There is the fairlds.org site and on that site there is the fairwiki. I don’t think that perfection in any church can be found. We need to remember that many jews still feel negative toward the catholic church because of the holocaust. I don’t know if the Polish Catholic Church made much of an outcry about the jews heading off to camps. But like everything else in history facts can be debated.
But harshness toward mormons and the mormon church should not be permitted on catholic threads. Catholics should show mercy and understanding and have the spirit of god inside them when debating with someone of a different creed.
But the pope is attempting to make amends and that is a good thing to do.
P
ParkerD
Guest
Dee Dee,
I guess you’re older than I had supposed. I can see why you would be offended by the LDS faith, having read something more about you.
I don’t know how familiar you are with the Old Testament and the prophecies about the house of Israel (maybe you don’t take them literally). The ten tribes were migratory. They left the Middle East en masse and also in smaller groups. They were gone from that area for the most part by about 580 BC, never to return so their DNA samples would just not be there in the Middle East today. No one is there who is their known descendant. (Nor would they know if they were.) The Jews are from the tribe of Judah. The Jews were scattered and the ten tribes were scattered even more than the Jews were scattered. Jesus was, of course, from the tribe of Judah, and the Jews described in His day in the area of Jerusalem were also from the tribe of Judah. The Jews know of their descent from the tribe of Judah, but modern-day descendants from the tribe of Manasseh wouldn’t know that they were. This is not complicated–it’s simple to understand.
W
why_me
Guest
Of course you are right. This is not a healthy place at all. In fact, it can be considered just the opposite. On these mormon threads I don’t expect to gain anything at all. The only thing that I can give the bashers is kindness and mercy. And I try to do this which of course only gets more abuse. And yes, it is a waste of emotional energy.
I left this forum for many months and came back again for some difference. Usually I am on the mormon related forums. But you are correct. All participants on the mormon threads should go away and enjoy life more…seek love of neighbor and begin to do more good in their life to make this life more like heaven.
Stephen168
New member
To summarize:
Nephites, listed by name, got in a boat and went to America (no reference)
Lamanites, listed by name, got in a boat and went to America(no reference)
The exact same list of Nephites and “those who would go with him” went off by themselves (2 Nehi 5:6)
The exact same list of Lamanites was left behind. (no reference)
The conclusion is, there were other people besides the Nephites and Lamanites
I’m still not seeing the references
It sorta lets me know the Book of Mormon is fiction.
The Pearl of Great Price is now the opinions of Joseph Smith? Cool!
Y
yankee_doodle
Guest
oooo … showing your intellectual prowess (wow I’m impressed).
D
dianaiad
Guest
If everybody who came on the boat was listed by name as to which side they went to (and they were) and it was thought necessary to add “and all those who would go with him” who went in addition to the folks who came on the boat (since they had already been, y’know, *named *and all) who the flip were those others who would go with him?
There were other people there. If there hadn’t been, there would have been no need to add that clause about, by the way, besides the people we listed (who came over with us) these other folk, who believed as we do, came with us.
This was not a simple throw away line. It was repeated. Here’s the entire verse:
"Wherefore, it came to pass that I, Nephi, did take my family, and also Zoram and his family, and Sam, mine elder brother and his family, and Jacob and Joseph, my younger brethren, and also my sisters, and all those who would go with me. And all those who would go with me were those who believed in the warnings and the revelations of God; wherefore, they did hearken unto my words. "
He mentioned the extra people twice.
E
Elric
Guest
It really goes from bad to worse.
Now someone couldnt even get right what was being dictated to him?
God really could have picked some better people to reveal the BoM to.
Stephen168
New member
Where is the list of people that came on the boat? In order to know if there were ‘other folk’ we would have to know the names of the original group, the group that stayed behind, and the group that left. Without that you have nothing.
“At a family reunion, my family, my sister’s family, my brother’s family, and some others all went swimming. All of us that went swimming knew how to swim.” You would conclude there are people there that are not related to me but I don’t see enough information to come to that conclusion.
And Joseph Smith said these people are THE source.
J
josie_L
Guest
Melanie Anne I’m pretty sure he knows how to write “ad hominen”, and furthermore you were not acting very Christ-like in your response to him. God bless.
D
dianaiad
Guest
Uh huh. I suppose in your view God only picked the perfect to be prophets?
D
dianaiad
Guest
Yes there is. Even in your example there is plenty of reason to assume that ‘some others’ did not include “my family,” "my sister’s family,’ or “my brother’s family,” if you are attempting to show that there were other people at the reunion than “my family, my sister’s family and my brother’s family.”
The thing is, Stephen, I don’t get your desperation in this. Really. the fact that there is evidence in the BoM that there were people other than the Nephites, Lamanites and Jaredites doesn’t prove that the book is scripture. Are you so afraid that the simple truth about the book, and the spirit of God, are not good enough to destroy it, that you have to cling to accusations and positions that don’t work, simply because they are derogatory? Even if they aren’t valid?
D
Dee_Dee_King
Guest
did you ever hear of the smurfs? there were other people who lived with the smurfs. so the smurfs existed in south jersey. i have these gold tablets that say so but an angel was upset at me and took them away. by the way, i’m looking to sleep with multiple women, and possibly a mother and daughter.
who wants to join my new religion? i will only ask to sleep with many women and that you treat me as a prophet. also, red haired people are obviously cursed. they can’t enter into the priesthood until a future prophet hears otherwise.
oh yeah, almost forgot: don’t drink hot beverages–coffee and tea–and eat vegetables in moderation.
- Status