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The_Theotokos
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JPUSC
Guest
In those I have talked to, most of those who disapprove of the LifeTeen (LT) Mass are generally over the age of 50. Not all, but most. They are the same people who dislike guitar music during Mass (vs. organ music) and really dislike the use of more contemporary music. Perhaps they feel it is not “Catholic” music? They tend to prefer the old ways…traditional, reverent (a.k.a. slow) music that they can keep up with. What these people do not realize, or perhaps they just don’t want to admit it, is that some of the contemporary music follows Catholic teaching quite well, and the more upbeat rhythms draw in our youth today. This does not make it any less reverent, just different.
As for making time for a “special” Mass, I believe this is a smart investment in the future growth of our Catholic churches. To make the youth feel good about their faith, to learn more about it, and to keep them involved is key. There are so many free-thinking churches out there drawing in the under 30 crowd with their “different” upbeat music, their lack of structure (sacraments, fasting, etc), and other such things that we have to make any additional effort to educate our youth before Confirmation so they are better prepared for the world after they graduate high school. Not all parishes do this the same, but we should encourage those who are trying. Encourage by volunteering, offer friendly advice (vs. negative criticism), ask questions (politely, of course), etc. Communcation is the key, and it’s one too sparsely used. We should try to use it more.**
Most of the people I’ve met who dislike the LifeTeen Mass are under the age of 25.
The ones who do like the LifeTeen Mass are the trendy types who have no idea why they’re really going to Mass. It can be a great place to meet dates.
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Shannon9791
Guest
My home parish instituted a Life Teen program when I was making the transition from teenager to young adult. I was heavily involved in the parish as a teenager and even after I went to college and seminary, but once they started the LT program, I had to bow out of being involved. Everything about it seemed…manufactured…would be the best word. From the cheesy skits performed during mass to inviting kids on the altar (I protested that this was not right to the Youth Director and the priest but because it was getting butts in seats fell on deaf ears), to some of the music involved, it didn’t feel like a “real” mass, but just a parody of what mass was. I was also told by one of the musicians that the entire focus of a Life Teen mass was the music. When I argued that the entire focus of any mass is the Eucharist, he laughed and told me that I had it all wrong, and that it’s the music that draws the kids in.
I think those types of attitudes prevail when you’re dealing with Life Teen. I believe that a general outreach to the youth would be more beneficial in the long run too. You can have the skits and praise and worship music outside of mass, that’s fine, but during mass is a little much.
One final beef with Life Teen is that it put too much emphasis on the feel good stuff. I didn’t see that it had enough substance, just the shiny happy people mantra that seems to permeate certain areas of Christianity today. A lot of times, once the feel good wears off, and the hoki-ness of the skits shows through, kids would quit going.
I think those types of attitudes prevail when you’re dealing with Life Teen. I believe that a general outreach to the youth would be more beneficial in the long run too. You can have the skits and praise and worship music outside of mass, that’s fine, but during mass is a little much.
One final beef with Life Teen is that it put too much emphasis on the feel good stuff. I didn’t see that it had enough substance, just the shiny happy people mantra that seems to permeate certain areas of Christianity today. A lot of times, once the feel good wears off, and the hoki-ness of the skits shows through, kids would quit going.
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Sarabande
Guest
This is what I constantly hear and experienced myself. I had hoped it changed since I had my experience with LT as a teenager. I’m just wondering if LT needs to do an entire revamp of their program. Whether or not LT is endorsing some of these things, there is an obvious disconnect between parishes and the LT organization which needs to be addressed. It is really giving them a bad reputation. The more I keep reading about or hearing about other people’s experiences, the more I think there truly does need to be some kind remodeling of their program. I’m not saying that all LT programs are like this, but there seems to be enough bad ones going on in individual parishes that warrant at least an audit or monitoring of any parish which take on the LT name and program. And the thing is, I’m not hearing this just from older people. This is coming from people of my generation and younger - those who experienced it first hand as teens.
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VociMike
Guest
We went to a LifeTeen Mass a couple of years ago (it was late Sunday and we needed to go to Mass) and I was amazed at the age of the attendees. I looked around fairly carefully and estimated the average age to be about 55.
FWIW, the average age at the Ordinary Form Latin Mass I attended today was about 35.
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Matariel
Guest
Why are people so against “Lifeteen” Masses?
- Because they violate the GIRM. As such, it is a form of rebellion against the Church’s guidelines for liturgy.
- Because it is against Rome’s and the Holy Father’s intentions for Masses.
- Because of their invention by a questionable priest who has been excommunicated/is being investigated for excommunication now.
- Because they are hokey and in bad taste, and make Catholicism appear on par with Protestantism-- competing to be the premiere “feel-good consumer Christianity”, which is an invention of men and is opposed to true Apostolic Christianity.
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DanteAlighieri
Guest
By all means, feel free to make a “joyful noise” by writing and performing Praise 'n Worship music – but, with all due respect, please don’t do it during Mass, which is supposed to be a unified exercise of solemn but joyful worship. It’s not a “Me 'n Jesus” party.
Telling people to “lighten up” does two things: it dismisses their concerns as insignificant, and it ignores the fact that this issue is not merely a matter of personal haughtiness. It’s about whether our desire to play the music we enjoy in Mass should outweigh our duty to be reverent.
Solemnity does not preclude joy; it focuses it and gives it context. Without solemnity, the Mass does not convey the proper character – in other words, we are not showing the reverence that is owed to the God whose sacrifice we are celebrating.
Peace,
Dante
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benedictgal
Guest
Amen to that! I happened to be at a quasi-LifeTeen (acoustic) Mass at the local community college. All of our diocesan priests were out on retreat this past week and the local monastery is in charge of campus ministry at the college. The music was bad. The guitar strumming rivaled that of the guy from Led Zepplin. It’s as though these folks do not read the documents regarding the kind and tone of music for Lent. I told one of the brothers that this was not at all appropriate.
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Tezza
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I’m just curious…has anyone attended Mass in Africa? You should hear those drums!!! Talk about praising Jesus! Or a Vietnamese Mass? I didn’t particularly care for there music, either. Of course, we could argue it is a cultural thing and should not be compared to the western form.
I live in central TX where they have a Mariachi Mass. I think some might find the guitars/trumpet distatesful as well. There was also a polka Mass in a Polish community north of Austin.
Is it possible that youth have their own culture that needs recognition?
I served as a youth minister for four years, not LT though because I didn’t need a cookie-cutter curriculum. I taught from the Catechism. I used high energy tactics that “speak” to youth. I also had quiet times for Adoration. I taught them that Jesus is truly present in the Eucharist. We had Reconcilation services so the kids would go to Confession. I taught them how to pray the Rosary and Divine Chaplet. I taught them about Indulgences. I taught them Theology of the Body (and we still had pregnant teens
). I lectured them that Mass was not there to entertain them and it didn’t matter how bad the traditional music was (our cantor was not pleasant to listen to) or how boring the homily. It was about being there for Jesus.
And yes, we had a monthly “teen” Mass where teens served as lectors, ushers, brought up gifts, and sang in the choir. It was my hope that the homily would be geared to issues these kids were facing, but that usually didn’t happen.
Not all youth ministry is watered-down Catholicism. You will find kids excited about their faith, a joy which some find refreshing.
Just my 2 cents
I live in central TX where they have a Mariachi Mass. I think some might find the guitars/trumpet distatesful as well. There was also a polka Mass in a Polish community north of Austin.
Is it possible that youth have their own culture that needs recognition?
I served as a youth minister for four years, not LT though because I didn’t need a cookie-cutter curriculum. I taught from the Catechism. I used high energy tactics that “speak” to youth. I also had quiet times for Adoration. I taught them that Jesus is truly present in the Eucharist. We had Reconcilation services so the kids would go to Confession. I taught them how to pray the Rosary and Divine Chaplet. I taught them about Indulgences. I taught them Theology of the Body (and we still had pregnant teens
). I lectured them that Mass was not there to entertain them and it didn’t matter how bad the traditional music was (our cantor was not pleasant to listen to) or how boring the homily. It was about being there for Jesus.And yes, we had a monthly “teen” Mass where teens served as lectors, ushers, brought up gifts, and sang in the choir. It was my hope that the homily would be geared to issues these kids were facing, but that usually didn’t happen.
Not all youth ministry is watered-down Catholicism. You will find kids excited about their faith, a joy which some find refreshing.
Just my 2 cents
J
JPUSC
Guest
I’ve seen videos of African Masses and yes they are indeed beautiful.I’m just curious…has anyone attended Mass in Africa? You should hear those drums!!! Talk about praising Jesus! Or a Vietnamese Mass? I didn’t particularly care for there music, either. Of course, we could argue it is a cultural thing and should not be compared to the western form.
I live in central TX where they have a Mariachi Mass. I think some might find the guitars/trumpet distatesful as well. There was also a polka Mass in a Polish community north of Austin.
Is it possible that youth have their own culture that needs recognition?
I served as a youth minister for four years, not LT though because I didn’t need a cookie-cutter curriculum. I taught from the Catechism. I used high energy tactics that “speak” to youth. I also had quiet times for Adoration. I taught them that Jesus is truly present in the Eucharist. We had Reconcilation services so the kids would go to Confession. I taught them how to pray the Rosary and Divine Chaplet. I taught them about Indulgences. I taught them Theology of the Body (and we still had pregnant teens
And yes, we had a monthly “teen” Mass where teens served as lectors, ushers, brought up gifts, and sang in the choir. It was my hope that the homily would be geared to issues these kids were facing, but that usually didn’t happen.
Not all youth ministry is watered-down Catholicism. You will find kids excited about their faith, a joy which some find refreshing.
Just my 2 cents
Teenagers don’t have a seperate culture. The Church only allows music important to a cultural heritage to be used in the liturgy.
While we’re on the subject, what makes LifeTeen think that all teenagers like pop-rock music? That’s not fair that they don’t include hip-hop, heavy metal and techno. Maybe we can have a Reggaeton Mass so I can get my groove on.
And, there is no uniformity in “youth culture”. Most of them just copy what their friends like and do.
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Dicerning
Guest
BINGO we have a winner!!!
If we are going to have a lifeteen Mass then We need to have a Lawrence Welk Mass for the 75 and up year olds WE need to have simon and Garfunkel Masses (oh wait thats the novus ordo in some places) for the early boomers. We need to have Bee Gees masses for the late boomers…REM Masses for the Gen Xers. Nirvana Masses for the Gen Yers and etc. etc. etc.
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benedictgal
Guest
As a previous poster indicated, there is no such thing as a “youth culture” as noted by the definition of inculturation as the Church sees it. The example you gave regarding Africa fits within the Church’s scope because it is still very much a missionary territory.I’m just curious…has anyone attended Mass in Africa? You should hear those drums!!! Talk about praising Jesus! Or a Vietnamese Mass? I didn’t particularly care for there music, either. Of course, we could argue it is a cultural thing and should not be compared to the western form.
I live in central TX where they have a Mariachi Mass. I think some might find the guitars/trumpet distatesful as well. There was also a polka Mass in a Polish community north of Austin.
Is it possible that youth have their own culture that needs recognition?
I served as a youth minister for four years, not LT though because I didn’t need a cookie-cutter curriculum. I taught from the Catechism. I used high energy tactics that “speak” to youth. I also had quiet times for Adoration. I taught them that Jesus is truly present in the Eucharist. We had Reconcilation services so the kids would go to Confession. I taught them how to pray the Rosary and Divine Chaplet. I taught them about Indulgences. I taught them Theology of the Body (and we still had pregnant teens
And yes, we had a monthly “teen” Mass where teens served as lectors, ushers, brought up gifts, and sang in the choir. It was my hope that the homily would be geared to issues these kids were facing, but that usually didn’t happen.
Not all youth ministry is watered-down Catholicism. You will find kids excited about their faith, a joy which some find refreshing.
Just my 2 cents
I am concerned that you would find traditional music boring. This is the music that the Church has had for centuries. In fact, these hymns have a better sense of the Faith than most of anything out today. The homily, first and foremost, shoudl explain the Gospel and the readings. That is the main focus. Yes, it is important that the teens get something out of it and that the homilist could and should address some issues, but, the homily is not about them.
As Redemptionis Sacramentum notes:
Regarding the Mariachi Mass, that is not inculturation at all. Mariachi Masses date back maybe 30 years, 40 at best. Mexico had already been practicing the faith for nearly 500 years or so when this “innovation” came up. The Matachines, the Aztec dancers, are a legitimate use of inculturation because they date back to the time when the Spaniards came to Mexico. In fact, the Matachines performed sacred dances in front of the Tilma of Our Lady of Guadalupe immediately after the miracle.
But, let’s go back to the Mariachis. The music is not at all fitting for the Mass. In fact, when my parochial vicar served as our Cathedral’s first rector, he got rid of them. The Mariachis certainly are not suitable during Lent, when the music should be even more solemn and sober. Furthermore, a lot of the songs played at the Mariachi Masses are not suitable for the liturgy. Incidentally, the Mass at the Basilica of Our Lady of Guadalupe in Mexico City features a full-blown choir complete with an organ and a classical orchestra for the Solemnity of Our Lady of Guadalupe (it’s a holy day of obligation over there). No Mariachis are playing, and, that is Mexico City, mind you.
I, too, lived in Austin, having gone to the parish that sits off the Drag. While the religious order staffing it was rather liberal, the music, surprisingly enough, was very Traditional. I learned to love genuinely sacred liturgy from this order, although their theology was somewhat at odds.
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brotherhrolf
Guest
I’d like to point out that there are many examples of Mexican and Cuban polyphony from the 16th, 17th, and 18th centuries. I’d also like to point out that there is no Missa “Chank-a-chank” or Missa “Two-step”. The Cajuns have kept their musical heritage at home and in the dance halls.
The very first mariachi Mass I heard was for my younger brother’s graduation from a Catholic boy’s high school in New Orleans. There was no Hispanic population attending the school so the question remains why? My answer is novelty - the reason why I had to endure my classmates in 1969 at my graduation Mass playing Simon and Garfunkle.
There was a Mass composed for New Orleans immediately after Katrina which used all of the musical idoms of NO - Dixieland Jazz, ragtime, and the second liners. It was filmed in St. Louis Cathedral with all three archbishops present. But, it was a concert performance. The sight of second liners dancing up the main aisle with umbrellas open (inside no less) was shocking enough in a concert performance.
I guess what I am trying to say is that I’ve seen enough jazz funerals of black jazzmen. The jazz stopped at the doors of the church. The line was drawn.
I wish the line had been drawn back in 1969.
The very first mariachi Mass I heard was for my younger brother’s graduation from a Catholic boy’s high school in New Orleans. There was no Hispanic population attending the school so the question remains why? My answer is novelty - the reason why I had to endure my classmates in 1969 at my graduation Mass playing Simon and Garfunkle.
There was a Mass composed for New Orleans immediately after Katrina which used all of the musical idoms of NO - Dixieland Jazz, ragtime, and the second liners. It was filmed in St. Louis Cathedral with all three archbishops present. But, it was a concert performance. The sight of second liners dancing up the main aisle with umbrellas open (inside no less) was shocking enough in a concert performance.
I guess what I am trying to say is that I’ve seen enough jazz funerals of black jazzmen. The jazz stopped at the doors of the church. The line was drawn.
I wish the line had been drawn back in 1969.
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japhy
Guest
To quote an address of Pope Paul VI from 1969:
DOL 246:
DOL 246:
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adowcday
Guest
I for one think that Gregorian music is quite beautiful. But I have no desire to have Gregorian music at worship (or, for that matter, to have the mass said in Latin). We have elevated European culture of centuries ago as the supposedly universal standard. I’m pretty sure that if Jesus had stepped into a Gregorian mass in first century Israel, he would have thought, “What the heck was that? Pretty, but not authentic worship.” I see no need to embalm the Mass. Let Africans worship as Africans, American teens as American teens.
There’s a good reason why Arius and Luther gained such a following: they both wrote great contemporary music. Heck, they were singing Arius’ heretical songs on the docks in Alexandria.
There’s a good reason why Arius and Luther gained such a following: they both wrote great contemporary music. Heck, they were singing Arius’ heretical songs on the docks in Alexandria.
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The_Theotokos
Guest
Well, while some people like Arius and Luther were concerned with increasing numbers in order to accomplish their diabolical inspirations that resulted in shattering the Church, others are concerned with consistency and solidarity. Gregorian Chant has always been music of the Church. Rock, on the other hand, has always reflected the profane and thus is not appropriate to be used during Liturgy. What we want to hear at Mass, as individuals, is irrelevant.
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Tezza
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“I am concerned that you would find traditional music boring. This is the music that the Church has had for centuries. In fact, these hymns have a better sense of the Faith than most of anything out today. The homily, first and foremost, shoudl explain the Gospel and the readings. That is the main focus. Yes, it is important that the teens get something out of it and that the homilist could and should address some issues, but, the homily is not about them.”
I don’t find traditional music boring. I said no matter how bad it is. At our parish, the woman who cantors the “traditional” music has a shrill, grating voice. Any music, no matter what style, can be bad if not done well.
As far as the homily goes, again, I lectured kids about what the Mass was really about. Not the homilies (though it is a shame when the priests gives 25 minute weekly lectures as if teaching a 3rd year seminary theology course that was over the heads of many of those present) or the music. It would’ve been my hope that the Gospel was presented to the youth as well (and the rest of us for that matter). I love all priests and pray daily for them just so no one gets the impression that I’m priest bashing.
Peace.
I don’t find traditional music boring. I said no matter how bad it is. At our parish, the woman who cantors the “traditional” music has a shrill, grating voice. Any music, no matter what style, can be bad if not done well.
As far as the homily goes, again, I lectured kids about what the Mass was really about. Not the homilies (though it is a shame when the priests gives 25 minute weekly lectures as if teaching a 3rd year seminary theology course that was over the heads of many of those present) or the music. It would’ve been my hope that the Gospel was presented to the youth as well (and the rest of us for that matter). I love all priests and pray daily for them just so no one gets the impression that I’m priest bashing.
Peace.
J
JPUSC
Guest
LOL, I’m sorry.
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benedictgal
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Have you discussed this matter with your pastor as far as the homily is concerned? Such feedback might help him. Even the Holy Father, who is a renowned theologian, does not speak over the heads of the faithful.
I was involved in the Youth Cursillo for a good while. During the Ultreyas (meetings), I had to clean up a lot of misconceptions regarding what the Mass was, especially when the kids said that it was about the “sermon”. I had to take the mike (during the open sharing session) and do liturgical damage control. What I wound up doing was having the next ultreya dedicated solely to the Mass and what goes on during the Holy Sacrifice. The kids had not heard of the phrase “Holy Sacrifice”.
Unfortunately, the problem is two-fold. The parents bear a lot of the blame because they are supposed to be the first catechists. They need to live up to their baptismal responsibilities. The second side of the coin is the catechesis the kids are receiving the moment they enter the CCD program as young children. As you have noted, it is watered down and with very little substance. I have seen some of the books and they don’t quite match up to what I had (and I still have my books). When I was growing up in the 70s-80s, I was blessed to go to a Salesian school where we were taught sound catechesis. Unfortunately, in the years since my graduation, the program has gone down hill and the Mass has been reduced to something that not even Don Bosco would recognize (and would soundly deplore). Unfortunately, these services include LifeTeen Music and dancing. Not a few priests are leery about going to the school.
My old parish in Austin, for all of its theological foibles, at least had the good sense to teach the kids traditional hymns. It was a strange dichotomy, but, had it not been for that parish just across from UT, I would not have learned about the liturgy (good and bad) and to really appreciate sound, Traditional, genuinely Sacred music. Since I’ve come home, they have gone through a couple of different administrations. I do not know if anything remains the same, but, I am grateful to them for what I learned.
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