Why are people so against life teen mass?

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Cat said:
You’re making a lot of assumptions.
So are you
You might not want to hear this, but I don’t think many more people would fit in our very large nave during our Life Teen Mass. It’s completely packed, with standing room only, and many in the congregation are teenagers, several hundred of them. This is one of the largest youth groups in the city, even bigger than some of the evangelical Protestant youth groups. And it’s very active in the parish and in the community. This youth group actually attracts Protestant teenagers.Of course I want to hear that… boy you misunderstand and assume a lot yourself:( Good for your parish.

I don’t know if the teenagers help select the music or not. I’m pretty certain they they do, because of the way the Life Teen program is set up in our parish–there are three “levels” of involvment, and one of the levels is “Youth Leaders.” They perform the music themselves; it’s not done by professionals or by adults, with the exception of the youth minister (who is a young man in his 30s, and he’s married, BTW.). He sings lead. But all the other musicians are the teenagers. perhaps you should know.

I do know several of the teens personally, and yes, they like the music at Life Teen. They really really like it. They aren’t just pretending to like it. They aren’t just going along with their peers to fit in. They aren’t rebelling against their parents or against the Church. They are not pining for “traditional” music. If they did, they would be at one of the OTHER eight Masses at our parish, where traditional music is the norm, and some of the teenagers ARE involved in these Masses, either as members of the congregation or as cantors and instrumentalists. (I know the teenagers because I have played piano for them in various musical venues in the city.) They have a choice at our parish and in our city.Several?!?! Good for you. you know several, I know 65. Most of our kids would like to be at other masses but confirmation and youth group requires this one. Again, it may be different where you are.

In our city we have a TLM every Sunday (actually 2 TLMs on Sunday), and a daily TLM within a few miles of our parish. The choir (Latin, chant, etc.) is open to everyone who is interested, including teenagers. This Mass and the choir are NOT packed with teenagers. In fact, the TLM and choir aren’t packed with grownups, either.My guess is and believe me this is a big assumption here… Traditional masses tend to be “unfreindly” in some areas… it may not be that the teens dont want it but that they dont feel welcome (hello TC forum)😉

So in our city anyway, when given the CHOICE, the teenagers (and many grownups) choose the Life Teen Mass. We do not have that choice. But good for you.

Our city has a population of around 150,000, and we are very close to Chicago, and have a very large Catholic population. In fact, I would say that Catholicism is probably the number one religion in our city in terms of numbers, followed by evangelical Protestantism. (Around 10,000 people a week attend the non-denominational megachurch in our city.) The mainlines are a distant third in terms of numbers.
Mormon is numero uno here. By a huge percentage. Probably followed by evangelical, non denom and then Catholic.
Life Teen has been around in our city for at least 15 years, and it shows no signs of losing popularity. Quite the contrary.

TLM has been around in our city since the mid-1980s (and of course, before Vatican II). Still waiting for the crowds to show up. Hardly a fair comparison because in most circles and at least in popular thought TLM was abandoned.

And our diocese has a surplus of vocations and apparently has HAD a surplus for many years. There has not been a decrease in vocations since Life Teen Masses started, if that’s what you’re thinking. I’m not saying that Life Teen is the reason that there are young men who are entering the priesthood or young women are entering religious life. I have read some of the testimonies in our diocescan newspaper, and several of the young people do give the credit to Life Teen for keeping them interested in their faith and getting them involved with their parish. But others come out of more traditional parishes and never attend Life Teen Masses. I think it’s the Holy Spirit who calls young people into vocations, not music and not Life Teen Mass and not TLM. There is no such thing as a surplus of vocations…anywhere. Vocations are a whole different thread:p but since lifteen was introduced by it’s founer vocations have plumited nationaly…cause and effect(I dont think so) but definately not supportive of lifeteen.

I’m sorry that your experience with Life Teen Mass and the Life Teen program has been so negative. But you cannot assume from your experiences that ALL Life Teen Masses and programs are bad.
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Nor do I but I have much more experience with LT than you, my opinion does hold weight. So does yours, actually, I AM happy to hear about your parish.
 
cat said:
more wrong assumptions.
I see kids from our life teen program at adoration all the time. (we have a 24/7 adoration chapel.) in fact, i see as many teenagers as i see grownups. They get plenty of opportunity for reverent quietness, and they use that opportunity to adore our lord.
good, we have 24/1 adoration on thurs, no teens but when we do public adoration and worship they love it. Perhaps it is because they are not recieving it in mass, and yes, that is our fault as leaders and spiritual directors.
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Cat, to go on your symphony analogy, I play in the orchestra because they need me, I don’t like the way we sound But I do it for the love of others… for teens (music) For God, would I like to spend sunday nights with my own 2 kids and wife… yes but this is my place, I am not paid. (monitarily) But I am paid. (get it) And I am glad for you and your parish, I really am, but don’t ever assume that there aren’t those who don’t have it so nice. And from my travels I have seen LT fail in a lot of areas. I think we are more aligned on this than it might seem.

But Cat, this isn’t the TC forum, put the claws away:D. K. Or as our LT music group leader would say… Chill out man, why be so heavy, G. Sup wid dat?
 
Cat said:
OK, I will take it back because I’ve read your original post and yes, it appears that you were speaking of your own parish.

But I would say that’s even worse. You claim to be someone who cares for the youth in your church and that you participate and try to help out.

But you call their music “dog doo.”
AAHHHH! again go back and read it I didn’t call it that. perhaps on the third pass you will get it. But so what if I did. It is!(there are you happy now) but it isn’t the teens fault it is “our”(my parish, not yours) fault for this format in the mass.
Have you told them this to their faces? If not, you should, rather than speaking ill of them behind their backs.No, Cat. They tell ME THEY DONT LIKE THE MUSIC!

When you DO tell them to their faces that the Life Teen music is “dog doo,” how will it help strengthen their faith and reinforce their commitment to the Church? Do you have a better alternative for the Life Teen music? Are you ready to implement that alternative (have trained musicians lined up who will select music and train the teens to sing it, have the copies of the music available, have the appropriate instruments ready and the musicians who can play them and the MONEY to pay them, etc.)? I am speaking english right? Why am I not connecting with you. Is it me or is it you?

Based on your experience with youth groups, do you truly believe that the “non-dog-doo” music of your preference would fill the Mass with teenagers and attract back teenagers who have fallen away from the Church? I’ve read the posts of some musicians on CAF who claim that this is exactly what happened; when they started up the schola or the classical choir or the chant training, the youth flocked in and the youth group actually grew. Good for them!-that’s wonderful! Do you think this would happen at your parish with the “right kind of Catholic music?” If so, then why aren’t you taking some action instead of just insulting and name-calling the work of others who are doing the best they can? Sadly, what fills the mass with teens at our parish is the parents that force them to go so they can be confirmed, recieve tuition discounts and so they don’t have to teach the faith at home. An exaggeration to be sure but it is true sometimes.

It’s easy to talk. It’s a lot harder to go down in the trenches and do the fighting. Maybe it’s trench-time in your parish.
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I talk and do. I am in the trenches, are you in the LT trenches? you ever housed a runaway from your parish, picked a girl up at the abortion clinic, or just plain babysat LT lifenights? I have. I do. BTW One year we tried a different format, called DTS or Dead theologions Society. It actually was better, very saint focused and the kids seemed to like it. Perhaps we can do it again…
 
Matt33

If the Mormons are big in your area, you definitely have a different battle than we do. A very difficult battle indeed.

I apologize for implying that you are doing your work for money. That’s not what I meant to say, but it came out that way in the writing. I really didn’t mean to imply that you are working with the youth for money. Forgive me for not wording it better.

I do not apologize for asking whether you are right for your work, though. It really sounded to me like you don’t like it. And I…I say this with fear and trembling, but I’m questioning whether it is wise to encourage the youth in their hatred of the music and the Life Teen program. It just doesn’t sound like a wise way to approach youth. It sounds to me…deep breath…like you are undermining the authority (the priest?) in your parish and feeding a negative atmosphere, and that is a very bad idea around youth. I know you think you’re helping them and communicating with them, but…deep breath…I think you would do better to encourage them to be docile and submit to their priest and to seek the positives in the Mass. OR work to help them make changes in their youth group that might not benefit them, but would help youth-yet-to-come.

I mean…golly, I hope I’m not just making you mad…when the teens say that their music is dog doo, I honestly, as a mom and a Christian, don’t think it is a wise idea to go along with that thinking. I think it would be better to try to bring them to a place where they are prepared to work towards changes rather than just calling names and being negative.

There’s a balance, and hopefully, you are striking the balance between listening to the teens and allowing them to indulge in self-centered, static thinking. After all, as many have said on this board–and I totally agree–the Mass is NOT all about our personal preferences and our likes in musical styles and performances.

Sigh…I hope I expressed that well and constructively. You may think I am giving you back-handed compliments, but that’s not the case at all. I’m 51 years old and have done a bit of youth work in my time. I’m just sharing my opinions with you, for what they’re worth and trying to give you some feedback that might be helpful. If it isn’t helpful, well, hopefully someone else can give you better help.

Yes, I think we are definitely on two different planets, and I thank God for my planet and I do not envy your planet. You have a very tough deal there between the Mormons and the geezer rockers and the priest and all the rest. It sounds like there is a ton of work to do.

I am incredibly lucky to have a parish with an excellent youth group and a great reverent Life Teen Mass, and I am lucky to live in a city that offers the TLM and other traditional Masses as well.

I honestly believe that a lot of anti-Life Teen Catholics would change their mind if they could serve at our Life Teen Mass and meet our youth and their sponsors. It CAN be done with excellence.

I’m not sure about your question about the rock concerts packing them in–not sure what you were asking. I can say this much–for the big concerts like Michael W. Smith, you’d better get there several hours in advance, and still plan on standing in a line. The concerts–get this–are FREE (free will offering), so they really pack out. And yes, many many teenagers attend concerts with the teen CCM artists. (And many geezers like me attend the concerts with older artists like Sandy Patti and Steve Green!)

In our area, there are several Christian coffeehouses, too, featuring local Christian artists. One of the local groups that my husband really loves is called “Silver”–we know a couple of the musicians. Here is a link: myspace.com/silvershows (I don’t especially like them, BTW.)

Another local group is Anavox–here’s a website: anavox.com/

Anyway, good luck with all that. You have a big task.
 
Speaking from a more traditionalistic point of view, I’d never even heard of lifeteen masses before I moves out here. When I did go, I was moritified. I understood the concept to get teens more interested in their faith, but I couldn’t understand is why change the mass to a more secular themed liturgy? It seems so irreverent to me.

The parish I originally went to had 4 or 5 masses on the weekend, and quite honeslty I couldn’t tell the lifeteen mass from the others, that’s how loud and rock-concert quality the liturgy was during every mass. I likened going to mass there to being in the audience of a variety show. Seriously. I moved to another parish farther away that was much better, but still had that type of influence. Over the years my parish has changed to a more traditional liturgy. The lifeteen mass I don’t think is there anymore, at least not the way it originally was. There is a young “choir” but no more guitars and amplifiers and clapping during songs. That horrified me, but so did a lot of other things too.

That said, once the lifeteen mass became more “normal”, a lot of people stopped going to it. That just verified to me anyway that people were interested in it for their own entertainment. That’s why I don’t like lifeteen masses. That, and of course because I didn’t grow up going to any type of lifeteen mass myself. Growing up, there were only two types of masses, one with your generic everyday Catholic songs and one with no songs at all, which was usually the early Sunday mass and was spoken mostly with chanting sparingly.

Just my take on things, anyway. Take it with a grain of salt. I’m the type of person that’s never been to a TLM but would love to go if I could find a nearby parish that has one. It just seems to me the more reverent the mass, the more pleasing to God.

Perhaps the last sentence explains best why those who don’t like lifeteen masses don’t.

Now teens, I would suppose, have a different take on it altogether… I honestly don’t know if I would have liked lifeteen masses when I was a teenager. Thinking honestly, I probably would have.

God Bless,
Snert
 
Orpheus2112 said:
I haven’t read through all of the posts here, but I did get the gist that most folks just don’t care for the music.

Same here. I’ll go to a Life Teen Mass and I don’t think that they should be forbidden; it’s nice to have that option for those who like it. But I really can’t stand that music, and I will only go to the Life Teen Mass if I’ve missed all other opportunities to attend Mass that day.

I also really cannot stand how certain parts of the Mass are lengthened because a song is inserted where normally there is simply a repeated phrase.

If someone digs it, that’s cool. If someone prefers a regular NO Mass then that’s cool too.

I just don’t dig it.:yawn:
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This part is most troubling. No one has the freedom to insert things into the Mass and substitute them for the prayers. A song should not replace the respponsorial psalm. Evidently, from what you described, what is happening there is not licit.

The problem with these Masses is that they do go for the “cool” factor. The promoters of these kind of services do not seem to take into account that an awesome, sacred mystery unfolds before the eyes of the faithful during every Mass. It is not about being cool, it is about being reverential and offering God the worship that is fit for His divine Majesty.
 
Cat said:
Matt33

I do not apologize for asking whether you are right for your work, though. It really sounded to me like you don’t like it. And I…I say this with fear and trembling, but I’m questioning whether it is wise to encourage the youth in their hatred of the music and the Life Teen program. It just doesn’t sound like a wise way to approach youth. It sounds to me…deep breath…like you are undermining the authority (the priest?) in your parish and feeding a negative atmosphere, and that is a very bad idea around youth. I know you think you’re helping them and communicating with them, but…deep breath…I think you would do better to encourage them to be docile and submit to their priest and to seek the positives in the Mass. OR work to help them make changes in their youth group that might not benefit them, but would help youth-yet-to-come.

I mean…golly, I hope I’m not just making you mad…when the teens say that their music is dog doo, I honestly, as a mom and a Christian, don’t think it is a wise idea to go along with that thinking. I think it would be better to try to bring them to a place where they are prepared to work towards changes rather than just calling names and being negative.

.
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I will focus on this part because I think the rest is periphrial. that is what we do. You seem to have a real negative idea about me so I think that I will just move on. Bottom line is You have no idea about what is said and what is submittet to by our teens in our parish, and my personal opinion is you don’t know much about yours either. You are ignorant and prideful in this reply. Please, if you can’t “Catholic up” and apologize for questioning my passion, then just leave it. You win. I’ll just go on working with the youth, and you can go o defending a point of view that is unrealistic in my opinion. Bye Cat. I am truely sorry that this has hppened. And I am sorry for my part in it. Hopefuly you can see past my faults and assumptions and forgive.
 
A couple of years, the Cathedral had the Altar Server appreciation Mass. The former director of youth ministry planned the Mass and choice “youth-oriented music” for the liturgy. She has no formal training in liturgy other than the fact that her husband is the deacon for the Cathedral. Nor did she have any interest in learning about the liturgy. My father was in charge of the altar servers at his former parish, but, he was not able to attend the Mass. I did not want to go because I had a gut feeling that things were going to be awry.

Later on that evening, we met up with our parish’s altar servers. I asked them how it went. The kids did not like the music. One of the older ones, LifeTeen’s target audience, told me that she did not even feel like she was at the Mass. It was more like a rock concert. She said that it just did not feel like the Mass, period. The other kids said the same thing. They wanted to have real Church music, not what they heard earlier that day.

The director for youth ministry is no longer there and, from what I understand, the Mass took on a more traditional tone.

The Mass is not some sort of Michael W. Smith concert. It’s not a hand-waving, clapping and toe-tapping experience. If the kids and the adults, for that matter, are therer just for that then they have missed the point. If the actual witnessing of the Passion, Death and Resurrection of Jesus Christ is not enough for them, then there are serious problems. If they need cool music to attract them and hold their attention, then, we have failed miserably and have turned the Mass into something that it should not be.
 
I had two kids at a life night a couple of weeks ago who when I asked them what they gave up for lent and how it was going, one said smoking dope and the other said masturbation…:eek: LOL I was sure caught off gaurd, I was at a loss for about 30 seconds then I gathered my wits and said well… ok… and how is it going for you. the one who stopped pot said that it was going good, the one who stopped masturbating said that the first week was hard but it is ok now.
When I discussed this with our priest and leaders we all came to the conclusion that “at least they were attempting self denial”😉 Anyway it is a tough culture out there, and I am not sure life teen is the weapon needed here.
 
Matt33 said:
I had two kids at a life night a couple of weeks ago who when I asked them what they gave up for lent and how it was going, one said smoking dope and the other said masturbation…:eek: LOL I was sure caught off gaurd, I was at a loss for about 30 seconds then I gathered my wits and said well… ok… and how is it going for you. the one who stopped pot said that it was going good, the one who stopped masturbating said that the first week was hard but it is ok now.
When I discussed this with our priest and leaders we all came to the conclusion that “at least they were attempting self denial”😉 Anyway it is a tough culture out there, and I am not sure life teen is the weapon needed here.
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You make a good point, Jesus was not all about hearts and flowers. Unfortunately, we have turned Him into somesort of Hallmark caricature of Himself. Jesus said a lot of hard and difficult things. Yes, He spoke about love, but, love, as Jesus teaches us, is not about warm and fuzzy feelings. It is about making a choice to love the beloved. The beloved is God first and neighbor second. Of course, we need to love ourselves, as well. But, God comes first.

The Holy Father certainly pulled no punches while he was in Africa, especially when he made his remarks about condoms. We need to be countercultural.

I do not have kids, but, I have been one. Although I thank God for the love and support that my parents and my Church gave me, even back in th 1980s, when I was a teen, it was not easy. Peer pressure was just as strong then as it is now. What I craved was stability. We need to give that same stability to the kids. Jesus founded his Church on a solid Rock by the name of St. Peter. Unfortunately, what you described sounds more like the man who built his house on sand than on the Rock.

Kids need a strong counter-cultural message. As my parochial vicar noted in our St. Paul class, our society has been Oprah-fied. I suspect that the same holds true for LifeTeen. It should not be a feel good experience where we hold hands and sing Kumbaya. Jesus was not shy about condemning sexual sins, nor was St. Paul for that matter. Just read Galatians. He was very direct. We need to be direct with the kids and not simply coddle them.

My dad served as the CYO director for the deanery. He exposed the kids through positive influences like basketball games and dances, which my mother patrolled with the evil eye. I was a tiny tot, but, I remember them dragging me to nearly everything since we did not have a babysitter. But, he did make sure that those kids got to Mass and that they got the appropiate Catechesis. Many of them are now leaders in their parishes and have gone on to have successful careers. To this day, whenever my father runs into his old CYO kids, they still thank him for the examplel they set. And, this was before LifeTeen, mind you.
 
Here is a link to the Youth Ministry webpages from our parish, including the Life Teen program:

holyfamilylifeteen.com/index.html

I invite everyone to read through it. I think we have an awesome youth ministry in our parish. I realize, after reading Matt33s posts, that every city and town is different, and what works here might not work somewhere else.
 
JimG said:
I haven’t been to many LifeTeen Masses, but the few that I attended did not seem to be out of line. Last year I went to a LifeTeen Mass at my brother’s parish in Atlanta. It just happened to be the Sunday Mass that we went to. But it was so mild that I would never have realized it was a lifeteen Mass if he had not told me.

As far as music is concerned, we have several music groups and choirs at my parish, one of which is a youth group. They play upbeat music but it is not irreverent.
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It is the same at one church I go to. The teens take more participation in the Mass ie taking the collection and bringing up the gifts… the priest takes all the readings & gears his sermon toward the teens & adults alike. He always gives an awesome sermon he and he has a good repore with the teens. I’ve been to other teen Masses and the music is loud, old people are clapping and swaying to the music…it was real bad.
 
Earthen_Vessel said:
On the music point as to what’s appropriate for Mass, I don’t think the decision can be based on style. People’s preferences for musical styles is like their preference in colors or ice cream flavors. All musical styles can be worshipful and uplifting, and all musical styles can also be abused. The answer should be based on how that particular style of music is being used. Just sayin’.
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But not all musical styles can be reverent or solemn. In fact, some musical styles are very sensuous; others were created to inspire people to dance; others are intended for “moshing”; others evolved out of protest movements – and these are not appropriate for Mass.

My point is that if it’s appropriate to ban one form of music from Mass based on the impact it has or its origin/intent, then that standard applies to all music. Thus, some music is sufficiently reverent and others are not.

Peace,
Dante
 
trokll said:
Hello all 😃

I have a question about why many people dislike life teen mass. I personal see no problem with it but I understand a lot of people on this forum are not found of it. This may be beacuse I am a acutly teenager but it has lead me to being trying to seek christ. I am not saying that my faith is toatly based on lifeteen, (I go to normal mass sometimes and still find it asome). But I really have to ask why do some people really disapporve of Lifeteen is there one thing in particluar or is more of how a particluar parish does it.

Any imput would be helpful
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This is indeed a hot button issue around here:bigyikes:. I can speak from my own experience and observations. Yes some teenagers detest the Life Teen mass, but others are Ok with it. Same rings true for middle-aged adults who attend Life Teen masses. I think it has more to do with background and upbringing than with personal taste.

I had attended a Life Teen-centered parish for 4 years, and I was never comfortable with it, Prior to that, my background has always been a more traditional setting. My previous parish was quite traditional, and before I converted from Protestantism I mainly attended traditional Protestant churches. Since I could not acclimate to the LifeTeen atmosphere after 4 years I decided that I had to return to my comfort zone.

That is just my own experience, and I am not going to delve into what is right or wrong with Life Teen.
 
I will simply say this:
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Why should there be separate masses for different age or other special interest groups?
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The Eucharist Sacrifice is supposed to draw us together.
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This is NOT to say there cannot be other kinds of age- and interest-appropriate activities and devotions.
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Its getting late and I’m coming in late with this post but I just wanted to express my concerns or thoughts. The above quote is true. The Eucharist Sacrifice is supposed to draw us together. Now I understand there is a liturgy for childrens mass but why make things so, so different in teen life mass. I went to one when I was asked by my godson to be his sponsor in confirmation. The music was way to jazzy, with drums (which is a no-no), the choir doing all movements with their hands and even the congregation doing hand movements. Before the Gospel and singing “alleluia” many in the congregation and actually it was mostly adults would do something like a cheerleader. They would place their hands in front of them, turn them round and round and then spread their hands to “a—le—lu----iah” on the “iah” they would swing out their arms out. I thought I was at some pep rally, or rock concert. The Choir actually had no teens, but they appeared to be in their late forties and early fifties and were up there “performing” and got a round of applause and cheers from the congregation. Choirs are never, never up there to perform but their purpose is to lead the congregation in singing and praising God. That can be done with selective songs, even traditional songs, and not jazzy type of music. They were moving back and forth like if they were in some rock concert. I was expecting at any moment one of them to start bashing and breaking their guitar and may even at the altar. It was that annoying.

Also I noticed there were many teens serving as EMHC (BTW they should not be called Eucharistic Ministers) giving blessings and laying their hands on childrens not old enough to receive communion or even adults who went up ther for a blessing. That also it NOT to be done. Only a priest or a deacon can to that and if I’m not mistaken that also should NOT be done during communion.

I told my godson (and he noticed) that the Bishop had three assistants with him that served as altar servers and they DID NOT HOLD HANDS DURING THE OUR FATHER. My nephew said he noticed that one of their servers reached out to hold hands with one of the Bishops assistants, and the assistant look back and him and shook his head saying no…

Just my thoughts.
 
To me, Lifeteen has dubious origins (a dissadent priest accused of child abuse) and also seeks to throw out anything Catholic and protestantize it. Many kinds of protestants love touchy-feely emotional outbursts and secularism in their services, and I see Lifeteen as trying to make Catholicism give up everything that makes it Catholic and make it touchy-feely.
 
Lifeteen Music Ministry Musician here…ahem…late.:o

Should the various stories told about LT Mass “abuses” and “compliance” with Rubrics here be true, they only prove how fallible and how faithful the people of the Church are and continue to be. Some things never change.

I am fortunate to have a liturgically sound Team leading our band and they maintain that through guidance weekly by our Clergy and youth minister/core team. The success of the LT program is primarily in the Youth Ministers hands.

Anything else I say would be mistaken for unecessary defensive posture.

P.S. We publish our LT Mass Music online as a draw and it works, whether it is trad, hymn, rock, solemn, accapella, etc.

If you are ever in the Tampa Bay area and want to check out what a successful and compliant LT Mass/Lifenight program is, we start @ 4pm.

Our Growing Library
 
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