Why are people upset about this?

[convert999]

We have a new priest, and many people have left our parish. The reasons they give don’t make sense to me, and I suspect it’s because I don’t understand the symbolism of some things. Here’s what people object to: 1. He has a row of candles on the altar, in the front, which people say is wrong. 2. He does the Kyrie in Greek. 3. He often chants the prayers. 4. He restarted the practice of lighting candles for prayer intentions. 5. He won’t do face-to-face confession; he always uses the little rooms.

Many people are saying all these things are wrong. I actually like a lot of them, except for the tiny confessionals. (I’m a little claustrophobic.) I don’t understand why people feel so strongly about them. Can you clarify?

 

[japhy]

Here’s what people object to: 1. He has a row of candles on the altar, in the front, which people say is wrong. 2. He does the Kyrie in Greek. 3. He often chants the prayers. 4. He restarted the practice of lighting candles for prayer intentions. 5. He won’t do face-to-face confession; he always uses the little rooms.

1. That’s not wrong. Candles are allowed to be on the altar, even on the front of the altar.
2. That’s not wrong. It’s actually quite interesting that when Mass is prayed in Latin, the Kyrie is still prayed in Greek.
3. That’s not wrong. In fact, sung liturgy is the ideal.
4. That’s not wrong. Why was the practice of lighting candles for prayer intentions stopped? (Clarification: is this something he does during Mass?)
5. The Canon Law of the Church requires that a confession-screen always be available. The priest may not be comfortable with (or like at all) face-to-face confession, but I would say that it is more pastoral to hear confessions face-to-face for a person who requests it.

 

[puzzleannie]

those who say these practices are wrong are simply ignorant but it is not their own fault. Don’t know about the candles, but doubt anyone has left because of that. They have not heard the Mass chanted properly, have never had the option of anonymous confession and so forth, so they think if they have never seen it, it must therefore be wrong.

if they are leaving the Church because of this, they are making excuses. those are not reasons. Nobody who loves Christ and believes he is in the Eucharist leaves the Catholic Church over personal issues.

 

[the_phoenix]

Sounds to me like I would really like your parish, convert999.

 

[tee_eff_em]

1. The Canon Law of the Church requires that a confession-screen always be available. The priest may not be comfortable with (or like at all) face-to-face confession, but I would say that it is more pastoral to hear confessions face-to-face for a person who requests it.

But to be clear: A priest is within his rights to insist on a screened confession. (That is: A penitent may choose a face-to-face confession only if the priest first offers that option)

tee

 

[Marie5890]

Sounds to me like I would really like your parish, convert999.

Me too!! Infact my priest pretty much is just like your new priest.

 

[JRKH]

But to be clear: A priest is within his rights to insist on a screened confession. (That is: A penitent may choose a face-to-face confession only if the priest first offers that option)

tee

Could you provide a source for this? Not doubting you but just curious…

Peace
James

 

[laszlo]

We have a new priest, and many people have left our parish. The reasons they give don’t make sense to me, and I suspect it’s because I don’t understand the symbolism of some things. Here’s what people object to: 1. He has a row of candles on the altar, in the front, which people say is wrong. 2. He does the Kyrie in Greek. 3. He often chants the prayers. 4. He restarted the practice of lighting candles for prayer intentions. 5. He won’t do face-to-face confession; he always uses the little rooms.

Many people are saying all these things are wrong. I actually like a lot of them, except for the tiny confessionals. (I’m a little claustrophobic.) I don’t understand why people feel so strongly about them. Can you clarify?

All these thins are licit.

The essence of being Catholic is to accept the authority of the Church. Some people do not like is, and from both side want to force their will on others even on the priest.

1 Pet 5:8-9 Brothers: Be sober and watch: because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, goeth about seeking whom he may devour. Whom resist ye, strong in faith:

 

[jwinch2]

if they are leaving the Church because of this, they are making excuses. those are not reasons. Nobody who loves Christ and believes he is in the Eucharist leaves the Catholic Church over personal issues.

As a point of clarification, the OP suggested that people have chosen to leave the parish, not the church itself. It may be that they simply went to a different parish where they felt more comfortable, not left the faith entirely. Perhaps the OP will clarify.

As for the points brought up by the OP as reasons people are leaving:

1.* He has a row of candles on the altar, in the front, which people say is wrong*.
- We have candles on our altar, they move there following the liturgy of the word.
2. He does the Kyrie in Greek.
- We do this once and a while and it doesn’t really bug me. I prefer it in English as I find that I am able to focus on the meaning of the words more effectively and it become more of an actual prayer on my part rather than just singing along. If it was in Greek all the time, perhaps I would get past it or perhaps it would just become annoying. I’m not sure.
3.* He often chants the prayers.*
- I like some chant in my Mass. I don’t think I would want to have the whole thing chanted but I do enjoy some chanting, particularly during the consecration.
4. He restarted the practice of lighting candles for prayer intentions.
- I have no idea why this would bother anyone unless he is requiring people to do it.
5. He won’t do face-to-face confession; he always uses the little rooms.
- This one would actually bug me. The only reason I can think of is that the priest may fear he is unable to separate what he hears in the confessional from his interactions with his parishioners if he does face to face confession. To me that is a problem. Spiritual direction is an important aspect of the sacrament in reconciliation to me. I have a couple of priests who have heard several confessions from me. This gives me comfort as I do not have to go over “old ground” with them and they can help me to spot trends and issues in my life that I might not see. Furthermore, the the sacrament becomes more than just confessing and assigning of penance, it becomes spiritual direction, which to me is extremely important. If I had a priest who was unwilling to do face to face confession, I probably would seek somewhere else to do my confessions or, perhaps find another parish. This one is the only legitimate reason for concern that from my own perspective. Of course, others have differing views and they are free to go to another parish should they desire to do so. I cannot say they are wrong for doing so as I do not know their heart.

 

[the_phoenix]

Me too!! Infact my priest pretty much is just like your new priest.

Great to hear, Marie!

I like attending both my English-language and Latin-language parishes (the English-language one being my official home parish) … There are some really good parishes out here in Ohio.

 

[Stylites]

if they are leaving the Church because of this, they are making excuses. those are not reasons. Nobody who loves Christ and believes he is in the Eucharist leaves the Catholic Church over personal issues.

That makes much more sense. I have to doubt that the OP is a mind-reader or is privy to other’s discussions or motivations, and at any rate these other people are probably not present here to speak for themselves.

 

[convert999]

They are not leaving the Church; they are going to another parish.

These changes are a huge topic of discussion at Prayer Shawl meetings. (You hear a lot of strange stuff while you’re sitting there knitting.) When I ask them why those things are wrong they say,“You wouldn’t understand because you weren’t raised Catholic.” I don’t know what that has to do with it.

The whole thing seems like a tempest in a teapot to me. I didn’t care for some of the things our old priest did, but I didn’t leave the parish over them.

I actually feel sorry for our new priest. He is very young (just turned 30), has two parishes to manage, and I get the impression that social skills don’t come easily to him. I imagine that before there was a priest shortage such young men would be assistants (or whatever they’re called) before taking on such a heavy load.

Parish life would be so much more Christ-like if people would sit around discussing how to make the new priest’s life easier, rather than harder.

 

[Phemie]

Could you provide a source for this? Not doubting you but just curious…

Peace
James

Can. 964 §1. The proper place to hear sacramental confessions is a church or oratory.
§2. The conference of bishops is to establish norms regarding the confessional; it is to take care, however, that there are always confessionals with a fixed grate between the penitent and the confessor in an open place so that the faithful who wish to can use them freely.
§3. Confessions are not to be heard outside a confessional without a just cause.

Note that there is no requirement for a ‘Reconciliation Room’.

In our diocese we were informed at a meeting that reconciliation rooms with glass doors were going to be set up so that the priest would never be alone, unseen, with a penitent. When I questioned this, in front of the Bishop, citing canon law, I was told it was more important that everyone be ‘safe’ than ‘anonymous’.

The traditional confessional was safe, as far as physical contact is concerned, but nobody seems to want those in churches any more. Our Reconciliation Room does give one a choice to enter and kneel in front of a curtain to maintain anonymity but there is no fixed grill in sight.

 

[MissRose73]

1. He has a row of candles on the altar, in the front, which people say is wrong. 2. He does the Kyrie in Greek. 3. He often chants the prayers. 4. He restarted the practice of lighting candles for prayer intentions. 5. He won’t do face-to-face confession; he always uses the little rooms.

1. I have no issues with candles near the altar.
2. The Kyrie is translated from Greek to the vernacular language, nothing wrong with saying it in the language it was meant to be in. I remember having to look up the fact and show to her that the Kyrie is in Greek not in Latin as my mother believed it was in Latin, and she was raised as a kid and teen before Vatican II changes.
3. I’ve never been to a Mass where chanting was part of it. I would like to go to a Mass to see what it is like.
4. Candle lighting for prayer intentions - if its in a private chapel, no issues as I have gone to light candles in one of my favorite chapels that offers it. Not sure if he is doing it during Mass.
5. No face to face confession. I’ve done face to face in a private room and also where there has been a screen between the penitent and the priest in some type of room. Either is good for me, and the lack of one over the other isn’t gonna make me change parishes.

 

[JRKH]

They are not leaving the Church; they are going to another parish.

These changes are a huge topic of discussion at Prayer Shawl meetings. (You hear a lot of strange stuff while you’re sitting there knitting.) When I ask them why those things are wrong they say,“You wouldn’t understand because you weren’t raised Catholic.” I don’t know what that has to do with it.

What a patronizing answer…
But - to be charitable, simply respond, "OK - I wasn’t raise Catholic. Help me to understand why these things are wrong.

The whole thing seems like a tempest in a teapot to me. I didn’t care for some of the things our old priest did, but I didn’t leave the parish over them.

You are right. It is a tempest in a teapot. I suspect that as word gets out you might start seeing an increase as people come to your parish for the more beautiful and reverent liturgy.

I actually feel sorry for our new priest. He is very young (just turned 30), has two parishes to manage, and I get the impression that social skills don’t come easily to him. I imagine that before there was a priest shortage such young men would be assistants (or whatever they’re called) before taking on such a heavy load.

Yes - years ago young priests would have more time to ease in. Of course that doesn’t mean they would all turn out to be “Fr O’Malleys”…(Going my Way)
I suspect you priest is kept quite busy and is often tired. This can make “social skills” even more difficult. Make sure that you know how much you appreciate him and all that he does.

Parish life would be so much more Christ-like if people would sit around discussing how to make the new priest’s life easier, rather than harder.

Good place to take the lead.

Peace
James

 

[TheMc]

We have a new priest, and many people have left our parish. The reasons they give don’t make sense to me, and I suspect it’s because I don’t understand the symbolism of some things. Here’s what people object to: 1. He has a row of candles on the altar, in the front, which people say is wrong. 2. He does the Kyrie in Greek. 3. He often chants the prayers. 4. He restarted the practice of lighting candles for prayer intentions. 5. He won’t do face-to-face confession; he always uses the little rooms.

Many people are saying all these things are wrong. I actually like a lot of them, except for the tiny confessionals. (I’m a little claustrophobic.) I don’t understand why people feel so strongly about them. Can you clarify?

He is doing nothing wrong. Here’s some more info about each of of those things:

1:This is what the holy father does. It helps people to realize they are not talk to the priest, but praying with the priest.

2 and 4: Good for him.

3: AWESOME!! A sung liturgy is the ideal, and is better than saying the prayers, especially on Sundays.

5: Any priest may refuse to hear confessions face to face, if he wishes.

 

[SMHW]

Many people are saying all these things are wrong. I actually like a lot of them, except for the tiny confessionals. (I’m a little claustrophobic.) I don’t understand why people feel so strongly about them. Can you clarify?

Others have explained to you that there is nothing wrong (and even very right) with the practices your new priest is instituting.

I’m going to address the the feelings of the people who are upset.

I can think of several possible reasons. These are probably people who think that feelings are (or ought usually be) the final arbiter of what is right. Someone has led these people to believe that the former practices of your parish resulted in your parish members being more holy/more enlightened/friendlier/more Christian, etc, etc. than other Catholics. Chances are that many of these people were drawn to your parish from other neighboring parishes because of these parish practices.

People don’t like to hear that the things that make them feel good about themselves (or just plain feel good) don’t matter… or even worse, are wrong.

Whether out of convenience or conviction, your fellow parishioners don’t want to change.

 

[Oneofthewomen]

5: Any priest may refuse to hear confessions face to face, if he wishes.

I am not sure if this statement is correct. I believe, based on what I know about Canon Law, that the priest would be violating said law if he refused to hear a “face-to-face” confession.

This is the canon, my ephasis added,

Can. 964 §1. The proper place to hear sacramental confessions is a church or oratory.

§2. The conference of bishops is to establish norms regarding the confessional; it is to take care, however, that there are always confessionals with a fixed grate between the penitent and the confessor in an open place
so that the faithful who wish to can use them freely.

It does not say anywhere that a priest may refuse the sacrament if someone wishes to do so “face-to-face”, what it does say is that a penitent has the right to choose.

 

[Phemie]

I am not sure if this statement is correct. I believe, based on what I know about Canon Law, that the priest would be violating said law if he refused to hear a “face-to-face” confession.

This is the canon, my ephasis added,

Can. 964 §1. The proper place to hear sacramental confessions is a church or oratory.

§2. *The conference of bishops is to establish norms regarding the confessional; **it is to take care, however, that there are always confessionals with a fixed grate between the penitent and the confessor in an open place ***
so that the faithful who wish to can use them freely.

It does not say anywhere that a priest may refuse the sacrament if someone wishes to do so “face-to-face”, what it does say is that a penitent has the right to choose.

This is what the "APOSTOLIC LETTER IN THE FORM OF MOTU PROPRIO “MISERICORDIA DEI – ON CERTAIN ASPECTS OF THE CELEBRATION OF THE SACRAMENT OF PENANCE” says:

1. Concerning the place and confessional for the celebration of the Sacrament, it should be remembered that:
   a) “the proper place to hear sacramental confessions is a church or an oratory”,(26) though it remains clear that pastoral reasons can justify celebrating the Sacrament in other places.(27)
   b) confessionals are regulated by the norms issued by the respective Episcopal Conferences, who shall ensure that confessionals are located “in an open area” and have “a fixed grille”, so as to permit the faithful and confessors themselves who may wish to make use of them to do so freely.(28)

Footnote 28 refers to this:

** Pontifical Council for the Interpretation of Legislative Text**
Answer to query on Confessionals:Can the priest decide that sacramental confession is to be received in a confessional with a fixed grille?

The following notice was published, July 24, 1998 by the Vatican Information Service:

The Pontifical Council for the Interpretation of Legislative Texts, with the Holy Father’s approval, in a recently-published note, responded affirmatively to the following inquiry by several episcopal conferences regarding confessionals:

“If, according to Canon 964, paragraph 2, of the Code of Canon Law, the minister of the sacrament, for a just cause and excluding cases of necessity, can legitimately decide, even in the eventuality that the penitent ask for the contrary, that sacramental confession be received in a confessional with a fixed grille.”

Comment: This response of the PCILT (reported above) affirms that a priest who hears confessions has the right decide to hear only anonymous confessions (with the penitent behind a fixed grille), and may not be compelled to engage in the “face-to-face” form of administering the sacrament of penance.

Background to the question addressed to the PCILT is that some priests had expressed concern about the potential for abuse of the “face-to-face” form of confession, and a reluctance to be placed in a situation where there could be any possibility for inappropriate communication of any kind, either on the part of the priest or of the penitent. Some had held that only the penitent (not the priest-confessor) had the right to make a decision about whether to confess anonymously (within the fixed-grille confessional) or “face-to-face” in a “reconciliation room”.

 

[curlycool89]

I am not sure if this statement is correct. I believe, based on what I know about Canon Law, that the priest would be violating said law if he refused to hear a “face-to-face” confession.

This is the canon, my ephasis added,

Can. 964 §1. The proper place to hear sacramental confessions is a church or oratory.

§2. The conference of bishops is to establish norms regarding the confessional; it is to take care, however, that there are always confessionals with a fixed grate between the penitent and the confessor in an open place
so that the faithful who wish to can use them freely.

It does not say anywhere that a priest may refuse the sacrament if someone wishes to do so “face-to-face”, what it does say is that a penitent has the right to choose.

I think you’re reading way too much into that. Grammatically, “so that the faithful who wish to can use them freely” is referring to the “fixed grate between the penitent and the confessor”. What it’s saying is that there must be something like a confessional.

It is implicitly saying that there are other licit practices such as face-to-face, but these are not mandated by that cannon.