Why are priests called Father?

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Hello my friends. I am not a Catholic, but I would like to learn your ways. This is my first post. I will ask very simple questions. I hope for simple answers.

Priests are called “Father” and the Pope is called the “Holy Father.” Why do you call them father? Does this not go against Christ’s teaching (Matt 23:9)?
 
from dust, what do you call your father? if you call him Father, if you got him a “Father’s Day” card, does that not go against Matthew’s 23:9?

Or perhaps it goes against a false interpretation. Priests have a spiritual fatherhood, just as men with children have a fatherhood.

The more and more I read objection’s to the Church’s teaching, the more argument that I see for a need for the Magisterium of the Church.
 
From_Dust said:
Hello my friends. I am not a Catholic, but I would like to learn your ways. This is my first post. I will ask very simple questions. I hope for simple answers.

Priests are called “Father” and the Pope is called the “Holy Father.” Why do you call them father? Does this not go against Christ’s teaching (Matt 23:9)?
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Hello and welcome to CAF.

Would Christ have gone against His own teachings? Didn’t He call Abraham their father?

Mat 3:9 And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham for our father. For I tell you that God is able of these stones to raise up children to Abraham.

Christ often taught using hyperboles.

Mat 5:29 And if thy right eye scandalize thee, pluck it out and cast it from thee. For it is expedient for thee that one of thy members should perish, rather than thy whole body be cast into hell.
Mat 5:30 And if thy right hand scandalize thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is expedient for thee that one of thy members should perish, rather than that thy whole body go into hell.

Do we take the above teaching of Christ to be literal?

St. Luke and St. Paul certainly referred to “fathers”.

**Act 7:2 Who said: Ye men, brethren and fathers, hear. The God of glory appeared to our father Abraham, when he was in Mesopotamia, before he dwelt in Charan.

Act 21:40 And when he had given him leave, Paul standing on the stairs, beckoned with his hand to the people. And a great silence being made, he spoke unto them in the Hebrew tongue, saying:
Act 22:1 Men, brethren and fathers, hear ye the account which I now give unto you.

Rom 4:16 Therefore is it of faith, that according to grace the promise might be firm to all the seed: not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all,
Rom 4:17 (As it is written: I have made thee a father of many nations), before God, whom he believed: who quickeneth the dead and calleth those things that are not, as those that are.**

St. Paul referred to his own “spiritual children”.

**1Co 4:14 I write not these things to confound you: but I admonish you as my dearest children.
1Co 4:15 For if you have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet not many fathers. For in Christ Jesus, by the gospel, I have begotten you.

1Ti 1:2 To Timothy, his beloved son in faith. Grace, mercy and peace, from God the Father and from Christ Jesus our Lord.

Tit 1:4 To Titus, my beloved son according to the common faith, grace and peace, from God the Father and from Christ Jesus our Saviour.**
 
scott1228 said:
from dust, what do you call your father? if you call him Father, if you got him a “Father’s Day” card, does that not go against Matthew’s 23:9?
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reminds me of a friend that posted on facebook yesterday something like “To all my protestant friends, today is just Sunday.” I LOLed.
 
I do not want to be repetitve as I think this question has been answered, but I do want to say welcome! And never be afraid to ask a question simple or complicated, I had many questions when I was starting to learn about catholicism and reading answers to questions on here helped a lot!
 
From_Dust said:
Priests are called “Father” and the Pope is called the “Holy Father.” Why do you call them father? Does this not go against Christ’s teaching (Matt 23:9)?
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This comes from a simple misunderstanding of scripture, and as noted by another poster, is a great reason why people NEED the magisterium (teaching authority) of the church to help them understand verses rather than trying to interpret them by themselves.

The verse you refer to states: Matt 23:9 – 9And call none your father upon earth; for one is your father, who is in heaven.

Okay, at first glance this looks like you’re correct, but there’s a problem… this verse is in ENGLISH, and the scriptures weren’t written in english. They’re a hybrid of hebrew, greek, and aramaic. In hebrew and aramaic, which would commonly have been the spoken language in Israel and was the language of the gospels. As such, THAT is what we need to consider.

In hebrew there are actually three words for “father”. There is Ab, which is the formal use of father, such as father’s day, or “hello, father.” There is also the word Abbi, which is an informal version of the same. While this word translates to “my father,” more accurately applied today it would mean Dad or Daddy.

Finally, there is Abba. The -a is an aramaic suffix which by the time of Christ had come to be used in the hebrew langauge. The root is an honorific. It turns the general noun into a singular proper noun (essentially, a name). It’s also a way of making a word into an honorable title. In other words, Abba is not just “father” or “my father”, it is translated most appropriately as The Father (capitolized because it is a proper name) and could only ever be applied to God.

As such, the verse in Matthew 23:9 states the following (I’ve placed the original hebrew in place of the deceptive use of the word “father” here): 9And call none your ABBA upon earth; for one is your ABBA, who is in heaven.

Priests and the Pope actually would be addressed as Ab, and never as Abba, ergo, the commandment of Christ not to call anyone The Father (aka, call no one on earth your GOD) does not apply to priests who are addressed by an entirely different word.
 
Welcome to CAF.

We call priest’ father as a matter of respect and as a matter of tradition. The early Church since apostolic times called the apostles and their disciples (bishops and priests) “father”. Catholics are proud of our biblical traditions and early Church traditions that give us a “bond” of continuity all the way back to our brethren in the early church. So we like to keep this tradition of respect going.

Here is a quick few verses that will prove to you that the term “father” was used in the early Church.

1 Cor. 4:15 - Paul writes, “I became your father in Christ Jesus.”

Phil. 2:22 - Paul calls Timothy’s service to him as a son serves a “father.”

1 Thess. 2:11- Paul compares the Church elders’ ministry to the people like a father with his children.

1 Tim. 1:2,18; 2 Tim. 1:2-3 - Paul calls Timothy his true “child” in the faith and his son.

Philemon 10 - Paul says he has become the “father” of Onesimus.

1 Peter 5:13 - Peter refers to himself as father by calling Mark his “son.”

1 John 2:1,13,14 - John calls the elders of the Church “fathers.”

1 John 2:1,18,28; 3:18; 5:21; 3 John 4 - John calls members of the Church “children.”

1 Macc. 2:65 - Mattathias the priest tells his sons that Simeon will be their “father.”

Matt. 3:9; Luke 3:8 - Jesus refers to Abraham as our “father.”

Mark 11:10 - the people cried out blessed is the kingdom of our “father” David that is coming!

Luke 1:32 - God’s angel says Jesus will be great and be given the throne of his “father” David.

Luke 1:55 - Mary says that He spoke to our “fathers,” to Abraham and to his posterity for ever.

Luke 1:73 - Zechariah says the oath which he swore to our “father” Abraham.

Luke 16:24,30 - Jesus, in His parable about the rich man, says our “father” Abraham.
There is no contradiction with that one verse of scripture you reference if you understand the context of that discourse. That “call no man father verse” was made about Jews who were over zealous in thinking that their bloodline and linkage to “father” Abraham or a particular following of a rabbi (called father) was going to save them irrespective of their behaviors. It is sort of like the bad OSAS idea floating around today among some protestants - where behavior does not matter if one sins as long as one believes all the more.

Anyway - if you want a great scripture-only rebuttal of this whole “call no man father” false teaching check out this link:
scripturecatholic.com/the_priesthood.html

God Bless

James
 
promethius said:
This comes from a simple misunderstanding of scripture, and as noted by another poster, is a great reason why people NEED the magisterium (teaching authority) of the church to help them understand verses rather than trying to interpret them by themselves.

The verse you refer to states: Matt 23:9 – 9And call none your father upon earth; for one is your father, who is in heaven.

Okay, at first glance this looks like you’re correct, but there’s a problem… this verse is in ENGLISH, and the scriptures weren’t written in english. They’re a hybrid of hebrew, greek, and aramaic. In hebrew and aramaic, which would commonly have been the spoken language in Israel and was the language of the gospels. As such, THAT is what we need to consider.

In hebrew there are actually three words for “father”. There is Ab, which is the formal use of father, such as father’s day, or “hello, father.” There is also the word Abbi, which is an informal version of the same. While this word translates to “my father,” more accurately applied today it would mean Dad or Daddy.

Finally, there is Abba. The -a is an aramaic suffix which by the time of Christ had come to be used in the hebrew langauge. The root is an honorific. It turns the general noun into a singular proper noun (essentially, a name). It’s also a way of making a word into an honorable title. In other words, Abba is not just “father” or “my father”, it is translated most appropriately as The Father (capitolized because it is a proper name) and could only ever be applied to God.

As such, the verse in Matthew 23:9 states the following (I’ve placed the original hebrew in place of the deceptive use of the word “father” here): 9And call none your ABBA upon earth; for one is your ABBA, who is in heaven.

Priests and the Pope actually would be addressed as Ab, and never as Abba, ergo, the commandment of Christ not to call anyone The Father (aka, call no one on earth your GOD) does not apply to priests who are addressed by an entirely different word.
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Thanks! I have been looking for an explaintion like this for a while.

Peace
Fermat
 
fermat said:
Thanks! I have been looking for an explaintion like this for a while.

Peace
Fermat
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No worries, Fermat! I think it’s good to show that the original poster’s interpretation would create all sorts of contradictions in the scripture, but that never seems to actually address WHY the interpretation is incorrect or what about it needs to be understood to reason why there is no contradiction. Understanding the original language is key in this area.

Sorry for not proof-reading better though. Looking back through my post I may as well have written that in hebrew for all the grammar and composition errors it had…
 
Very interesting. Thank you so very much for your replies. While many of you make good arguements for the case, I would like to address the “need for a teaching authority.” In the same passage it states that you have one teacher which is Christ and no other. The Apostles were guided with the Holy Spirit to expound on these teachings. There are none with the Holy Spirit today so there cannot be any who may assume a similar position as the apostles. All those of the one true faith are brethren.

The arguement that this word for Father is Abba is in err. We have no Hebrew manuscripts of the New Testament. The Greek manuscript translates this word in the form of pater, meaning male ancestor. It is used here and all the other verses translated father as listed on this thread. It may be the case that you are correct, but you cannot make that assertion.

The one thing many of you are missing unfortunately is the why - why you do not call any one father, or teacher, or master. The word pater is used for Abraham, because the Jews are decended from Abraham. Paul refers himself as a father in a spiritual sense because he brought forth these people living in darkness to a rebirth in the Truth of the Gospel. This perhaps would be your greatest arguement for the case that priests are “spiritual fathers,” but it does not support the case that they should actually be called “fathers.”

Jesus Christ’s point is to let no man exalt himself above another within the church. You all have one Father, one Teacher, and one Master. To call a man you are not born from father is to put him in a position of reverence when he is but a man. The hierarchy of the church places man above man and goes against this fundamental principal that the followers of the one true faith are “all brethren” and thus all equal in regard to position. To allow followers to elevate you with these titles is to allow yourself to be exalted above them. You shall be humbled as it says.
 
You are clearly not here to learn, but to proselytize. I am sorry that you had to create an account on here only to deceive. Catholics are quite aware of scripture, as they provided it to you. We’re not going to be surprised after 2000 years about what the Bible says. Thanks for playing.
 
From_Dust said:
Very interesting. Thank you so very much for your replies. While many of you make good arguements for the case, I would like to address the “need for a teaching authority.” In the same passage it states that you have one teacher which is Christ and no other. The Apostles were guided with the Holy Spirit to expound on these teachings. There are none with the Holy Spirit today so there cannot be any who may assume a similar position as the apostles. All those of the one true faith are brethren.

The arguement that this word for Father is Abba is in err. We have no Hebrew manuscripts of the New Testament. The Greek manuscript translates this word in the form of pater, meaning male ancestor. It is used here and all the other verses translated father as listed on this thread. It may be the case that you are correct, but you cannot make that assertion.

The one thing many of you are missing unfortunately is the why - why you do not call any one father, or teacher, or master. The word pater is used for Abraham, because the Jews are decended from Abraham. Paul refers himself as a father in a spiritual sense because he brought forth these people living in darkness to a rebirth in the Truth of the Gospel. This perhaps would be your greatest arguement for the case that priests are “spiritual fathers,” but it does not support the case that they should actually be called “fathers.”

Jesus Christ’s point is to let no man exalt himself above another within the church. You all have one Father, one Teacher, and one Master. To call a man you are not born from father is to put him in a position of reverence when he is but a man. The hierarchy of the church places man above man and goes against this fundamental principal that the followers of the one true faith are “all brethren” and thus all equal in regard to position. To allow followers to elevate you with these titles is to allow yourself to be exalted above them. You shall be humbled as it says.
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The fundamental problem with your statement is ‘The hierarchy of the church places man above man and goes against this fundamental principal that the followers of the one true faith are “all brethren” and thus all equal in regard to position.’

The purpose of the teaching authority of the church is to teach. Are we not here to learn? If we are here to learn, who will teach us? The Holy Spirit teaches, but it is plain to see that if there is no earthly guide, people can come up with some pretty crazy stuff that they believe the spirit led them to.

You also need to spend a great deal of time looking at the structure of the church if you are to understand it enough to make your statement. No priest is exaulted by what he does. Being a priest is a very hard and humbling job. We respect our priests, we give them deference, but we do not exault them.

We are always happy to help, but personally, I am not a big fan of the ‘wolf in sheep’s clothing’ bit. Honesty is a big deal for a Catholic.
 
The Holy Spirit does and continues to teach but not through man. The Holy Spirit teaches through the Word of the Bible.
 
From_Dust said:
Very interesting. Thank you so very much for your replies. While many of you make good arguements for the case, I would like to address the “need for a teaching authority.” In the same passage it states that you have one teacher which is Christ and no other. The Apostles were guided with the Holy Spirit to expound on these teachings. There are none with the Holy Spirit today so there cannot be any who may assume a similar position as the apostles. All those of the one true faith are brethren.
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Silly Wabbit. The magisterial teaching authority of the church IS the teaching authority of God. The church is the means by which the Holy Spirit guides the laity into truth.

Second, the idea that the apostles all died out and now there is no Holy Spirit is ridiculous, and the way that you have applied it here is blasphemous.
The arguement that this word for Father is Abba is in err. We have no Hebrew manuscripts of the New Testament. The Greek manuscript translates this word in the form of pater, meaning male ancestor. It is used here and all the other verses translated father as listed on this thread. It may be the case that you are correct, but you cannot make that assertion.
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Again, you really need the magisterial teaching authority to help you out here. The greek manuscript includes (in three places, exactly, this being one of them) the words “Abba Pater”, and Abba is used in this instance as well. The reasons given for this exact listing are varied, but they all agree that Abba is in the text used.

Jesus Christ’s point is to let no man exalt himself above another within the church. You all have one Father, one Teacher, and one Master. To call a man you are not born from father is to put him in a position of reverence when he is but a man. The hierarchy of the church places man above man and goes against this fundamental principal that the followers of the one true faith are “all brethren” and thus all equal in regard to position. To allow followers to elevate you with these titles is to allow yourself to be exalted above them. You shall be humbled as it says.

This is all your creation and your addition to scripture. What you have done here is to assert that you are somehow capable of dogmatic interpretation AND additional instruction which is extrascriptural. Because I do no accept your self appointed “magisterial” authority, I reject your changes to the scripture. The verse you referenced does not make exception for “biological fathers” vice priestly fatherhood. It doesn’t have to because, as stated, the idea of call no man father applies to a divine, singular proper noun of Father, namely Abba Pater, THE Father. Only in your twisted interpretation can you do the mental twists to arrive at your conclusion.

I thought you were here to discuss and learn. Apparently you are only here to teach your own twisted version of doctrine. No thanks.
 
“If we receive the testimony of men, the testimony of God is greater; for this is the testimony of God that he has borne witness to his Son.” (1 John 5:9).

“And we impart this in words not taught by human wisdom but taught by the spirit, interpreting spiritual truths to those who possess the spirit.” (1 Cor 2:13)

“Love never ends; as for prophecies, they will pass away; as for tongues, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will pass away.” (1 Cor 13:8)
 
From_Dust said:
The Holy Spirit does and continues to teach but not through man. The Holy Spirit teaches through the Word of the Bible.
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Incorrect. Again that is something you have created out of nowhere to suit your own ends. The bible states specifically that the Holy Spirit is given to guide the CHURCH into all truth. Not the bible and not individuals making up their own mumbo jumbo doctrine.
 
From_Dust said:
The Holy Spirit does and continues to teach but not through man. The Holy Spirit teaches through the Word of the Bible.
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Oh really. Did the Holy Spirit come to us through YOU to teach us this? The Holy Spirit tells me you are teaching man-made doctrines here…

I might believe you if you can point to a single verse in scripture where it says “the Holy Spirit teaches through the Word of the Bible”?

Can you?

:cricket_sounds:

No? 🤷

It sounds to me like you want us to listen to you as if you are Pope Dusty rather than listen to The Church which the bibles tells us quite plainly is “the pillar and foundation of truth”.

Maybe you would get more ear here if you can you tell us who ordained you into the apostolic priesthood to give you the pedigree and authority to be teaching “things hard to understand that lead the ignorant to their own destruction”? 😉

James
 
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