Why are Protestant Ministers who are well educated in the faith Joining the Catholic Church?

[Polaris]

**How so? **
**Am I to understand that you don’t **believe that the Catholic Church was the only Church established by Jesus? If not, why do you identify yourself as Catholic.

PLEASE enlighten me.
This ought to be interesting, since you were obviously there when we grew up.

I was saying that because of the tone of your written word along with the highlights with red, and the bold font which usually denotes aggression. Even if you were there you do not know what is in a persons heart and and what graces they were given, that is the point I was trying to make with theWe all fall into the same mistakes comment. You were given the grace to stay catholic maybe they were not but were given the grace to see him in another church. Finding Him there in the Protestant church they wanted to share Him with you. If you look at it from that approach it is quite sweet and not anti-catholic.

As for myself I am still a catholic until I enter into the Orthodox church probably next year or the year after however long it takes for me to absorb 2000 years of theology from an Eastern standpoint. I believe that God is leading me there and my questions that the Augustine based theology of the west could not answer with it plethora of “developmental” doctrines are being answered by the east and my way of thinking is slowly changing making me more like Jesus which I think is the point. I believe history and God are on the side of the Orthodox church and that it was founded by Jesus and the Catholic church is just a prodigal son with much of the truth found in its original family but not all of it just like the protestants are children of the catholic church and have some of the truth but not as much as the Catholic church.

 

[tobinatorstark]

Heretic!! Modernist!! O ye of little faith!!

And now begins the mud slinging…

I have held it in all I could. Contrary to the post I made in KJV and Catholics. You are very ignorant. You make me sick to my stomach in condemning Christians in the way you have. We are members of God’s church and body. One more post like this and I will be a whistle blower, if you do know what that is(which I highly doubt it.)

 

[JonNC]

An interesting question and one that deserves a lot of thought and a reluctance to jump in with a quick answer.

At the same time, one could very well ask the reverse which applies to far more people – why are Protestant Ministers who are well educated in the faith not joining the Catholic Church? This, too, defies a quick and easy answer.

As a Lutheran, I am most interested in the stories of Lutherans who choose to convert. There are some high-profile ones, at least in Lutheran circles – Fr. Richard John Neuhaus and Fr. Leonard Klein – to name a couple. There are a number of others, some of whom had to give up their calling as pastors for the simple reason that they were female. For those who haven’t read it, I suggest There We Stood, Here We Stand: 11 Lutherans Rediscover their Catholic Roots by Timothy Drake. Not all eleven were pastors but those who were have very interesting conversion stories.

I confess that I do not feel called to follow in the footsteps of those Lutherans who have converted. I have read extensively about Catholicism – portions of the Catechism of the Catholic Church, works by Chesterton, Scott Hahn, George Wiegel, Stephen Ray, Fr. Benedict Groeschel, and others. Yet, I still find myself committed to the Lutheran understanding of Christ and his church. In many ways, it is congruent with Catholicism. In other ways we are apart and I have not been able to bridge that gap. I do pray that the Holy Spirit will lead me, and all of us, in the quest for unity.

Just a few thoughts for now.

Thanks, Pastor.
My dad was well educated, including a doctorate of Sacred Theology. To my knowledge he was never moved to convert.

I think the HS moves people for different reasons. Regardless of what we think the errors in other traditions might be, the HOly SPirit makes use of all His people, regardless of the church they belong to, or are moving to.

Jon

 

[ralphinal]

IN the end, conversion is an individual decision based on a perceived need to change. THere is no reason one person should convert just because someone else did. Each person must feel the call for themselves.

 

[elvisman]

I was saying that because of the tone of your written word along with the highlights with red, and the bold font which usually denotes aggression. Even if you were there you do not know what is in a persons heart and and what graces they were given, that is the point I was trying to make with theWe all fall into the same mistakes comment. You were given the grace to stay catholic maybe they were not but were given the grace to see him in another church. Finding Him there in the Protestant church they wanted to share Him with you. If you look at it from that approach it is quite sweet and not anti-catholic.

As for myself I am still a catholic until I enter into the Orthodox church probably next year or the year after however long it takes for me to absorb 2000 years of theology from an Eastern standpoint. I believe that God is leading me there and my questions that the Augustine based theology of the west could not answer with it plethora of “developmental” doctrines are being answered by the east and my way of thinking is slowly changing making me more like Jesus which I think is the point. I believe history and God are on the side of the Orthodox church and that it was founded by Jesus and the Catholic church is just a prodigal son with much of the truth found in its original family but not all of it just like the protestants are children of the catholic church and have some of the truth but not as much as the Catholic church.

**Apparently, you haven’t seen my posts on this forum because I use color and bold lettering ALL the time. It has nothing to do with anger. When I’m angry, I use exclamation points. And you talk about me judging what’s in a person’s heart. **

As for my siblings, you cannot possibly know what their motive was but I CAN. I was there and I know them intimately - you don’t. I know how they act and react - you don’t. I know what they said about the Eucharist, the Blessed Mother, the Mass and a host of other topics - you don**'t.**

If you want to leave the Catholic Church - then go. I hope that someday you will see that you left the fullness of truth and return - but that’s a topic for another thread.

A little friendly advice:
**Speak not of what you know not of. **
Wanna have dialogue? - Let’s.
**Wanna judge my motives? You don’t even know me. **

 

[Polaris]

**Apparently, you haven’t **seen my posts on this forum because I use color and bold lettering ALL the time. It has nothing to do with anger. When I’m angry, I use exclamation points. And you talk about me judging what’s in a person’s heart.

As for my siblings, you cannot possibly know what their motive was but I CAN. I was there and I know them intimately - you don’t. I know how they act and react - you don’t. I know what they said about the Eucharist, the Blessed Mother, the Mass and a host of other topics - you don**'t**.

If you want to leave the Catholic Church - then go. I hope that someday you will see that you left the fullness of truth and return - but that’s a topic for another thread.

A little friendly advice:
Speak not of what you know not of.
Wanna have dialogue? - Let’s.
**Wanna judge my motives? You don’t **even know me.

You claim to know what is in peoples hearts by relation. I was raised with my family but I do not claim to know what is in there hearts. I cant know what is in a persons heart and I dont know what graces god shared with them, no one can only God can.

 

[Ceil-1]

Oh, I don’t know, my brother left the Church and he and his wife are pretty arrogant about it. They admit they can’t find a church that meets their belief system, and pooh-pooh these non-denominational churches for being worldly. They, of course, have it right, everyone else has it wrong.

 

[CWBetts]

Oh, I don’t know, my brother left the Church and he and his wife are pretty arrogant about it. They admit they can’t find a church that meets their belief system, and pooh-pooh these non-denominational churches for being worldly. They, of course, have it right, everyone else has it wrong.

This is pretty common in nendemominational churches I have encounterd. I cant remember who said it : “In Ameica, there is a shortage of vocations tot he priesthood, but not to the papacy” Everyone wants to be their own pope.

 

[elvisman]

You claim to know what is in peoples hearts by relation. I was raised with my family but I do not claim to know what is in there hearts. I cant know what is in a persons heart and I dont know what graces god shared with them, no one can only God can.

Nope - I never judge a person’s heart. I judge their words and actions as we are called to do:
By their fruits you shall know them. (Matt. 7:16)

Stop judging by appearances, but judge justly." (John 7:24)

**I, for my part, although absent in body but present in spirit, have already, as if present, pronounced judgment on the one who has committed this deed, ****in the name of (our) Lord Jesus . . ." (1 Cor. 5:3-4)

If you have trouble discerning people’s words and actions - in other words, their fruits - might I suggest a little catechesis on the matter?

 

[Polaris]

This is pretty common in nendemominational churches I have encounterd. I cant remember who said it : “In Ameica, there is a shortage of vocations tot he priesthood, but not to the papacy” Everyone wants to be their own pope.

Well what makes you think that you are not your own pope? You have chosen to be Catholic. Have you not? You choose to believe this belief system. You have decided it is true. You have chosen your doctrines. No one else can do that.

If someone disagrees with the Catholic church and claims that they have found the truth, do you claim not to have chosen to be Catholic but just submitted because you were born into it and its presumptuous to question?  No or I hope not.  :p   But you question and you choose to submitbecause you believe it to be true. Yet it does not mean that you do not have the ultimate power.

Ultimately many of us decide decide to “pick our truth” to the fullest of our ability given by God.

 

[CWBetts]

But I have chosen to accept someone else’s authority. The Holy Scriptures are complex, too complex for me to decipher on my own, so I rely on the infallibility of the Church, the only Church that can trace Apostolic Authority all the way back to Jesus Christ.

 

[Polaris]

Nope - I never judge a person’s heart. I judge their words and actions as we are called to do:
By their fruits you shall know them. (Matt. 7:16)

Stop judging by appearances, but judge justly." (John 7:24)

I, for my part, although absent in body but present in spirit, have already, as if present, pronounced judgment on the one who has committed this deed, ***in the name of (our) Lord Jesus . . ." ***(1 Cor. 5:3-4)

If you have trouble discerning people’s words and actions - in other words, their fruits - might I suggest a little catechesis on the matter?

Maybe this will help. I have a choice before me a beautiful large red apple, and an apple with brown spots. I take a bite of the red apple. it is tasteless, and dry. I take a bite of the small apple with brown spots it is the sweetest juiciest I have ever tasted.

The same is true with many things. Like you may perceive a family member attacking you. You may think that the are producing bad fruit but they are actually trying to help you a sweet fruit.

We never know for sure the actions that drive a person.

So always believe in the best, especially with Family because they love you.

 

[Chancellare]

You say you have to abandon something or give up a large chunk but you forget you also have to accept or take in a large chunk of something. If you now no longer believe in a legalistic confession you have to accept the belief in forgiveness of sin without it. What does this mean? How does it affect your theology and its implications. Many protestant churches have done this with a well developed theology that you have to study to understand and accept. I would not say you are loosing anything just exchanging. Now who has the right understanding of God you can argue about. I have my best guess , Hisalone has his and you have yours.

You missed the magnitude of the larger chunk of Belief that Reformation asked your church to disregard for doctrnial reasons.

For starters, Luther removed seven books from the Old Testament: 1 and 2 Maccabees, Sirach, Wisdom, Baruch, Tobit, and Judith, and parts of two others, Daniel and Esther.
How this affect your theology and its implication requires a ‘Large Chunk’ indeed.

Not to mention Holy Tradition that are all reflected from the Bible and that were painstakingly developed by Early Fathers but tossed out by Reformers simply because they did not like the Pope then.

Not to mention the Synods and Church Councils, Papal Encyclicals, etc

There is a preponderance of things that you guys missed, courtesy of Luther and his reformers. So please be careful when you say ‘Large chunk’.

Haven’t you heard Jesus speak to you at night?: “Why hast thou maketh my teachings unto a Cafeteria?”

 

[Polaris]

But I have chosen to accept someone else’s authority. The Holy Scriptures are complex, too complex for me to decipher on my own, so I rely on the infallibility of the Church, the only Church that can trace Apostolic Authority all the way back to Jesus Christ.

So you have chosen who will decipher it for you. So you want to be catholic so you do not have to think? hehehe Now I know that is not true, or I should say believe, but you have decided to submit to that authority. Those in church have decided to submit too and those looking have decided to submit to Christ but are trying to find who on earth who to submit to that best fits there understanding of Christ. If I understan Christ one way, how he revealed himself to you that is what anyone would look for too. I do not consider them arrogant, I consider them honest.

One more thing about the Apostolic succession. Not true. So can the Orthodox including the Seat of Peter .

 

[Metamorphoo]

I think the HS moves people for different reasons. Regardless of what we think the errors in other traditions might be, the HOly SPirit makes use of all His people, regardless of the church they belong to, or are moving to.

Jon

Amen!

 

[Polaris]

You missed the magnitude of the larger chunk of Belief that Reformation asked your church to disregard for doctrnial reasons.

For starters, Luther removed seven books from the Old Testament: 1 and 2 Maccabees, Sirach, Wisdom, Baruch, Tobit, and Judith, and parts of two others, Daniel and Esther.
How this affect your theology and its implication requires a ‘Large Chunk’ indeed.

Not to mention Holy Tradition that are all reflected from the Bible and that were painstakingly developed by Early Fathers but tossed out by Reformers simply because they did not like the Pope then.

Not to mention the Synods and Church Councils, Papal Encyclicals, etc

There is a preponderance of things that you guys missed, courtesy of Luther and his reformers. So please be careful when you say ‘Large chunk’.

Haven’t you heard Jesus speak to you at night?: “Why hast thou maketh my teachings unto a Cafeteria?”

I do not think you understand.

I’m not a protestant but I defend them like I defend Catholics.

Yes they abandoned a large part but they filled it with new doctrines and concepts that fit there understandings that they believe to be historical. Some of it is done well. If you have a belief, you can make the bible support it. Many of them even refer to the church fathers. So when you change from catholic to protestant you are exchanging because a whole new understanding is there along with a tradition.
Also I think you have to review the reasons for the Reformation. It was not just because they did not like a Pope. It had a lot of reasons both religious and political.

Also I think you should read more. Im not a Protestant, I’m a Catholic that’s converting to Orthodox. I heard the voice of Jesus and he told me the Catholic church is a good start but the full truth is over there.

 

[elvisman]

Maybe this will help. I have a choice before me a beautiful large red apple, and an apple with brown spots. I take a bite of the red apple. it is tasteless, and dry. I take a bite of the small apple with brown spots it is the sweetest juiciest I have ever tasted.

The same is true with many things. Like you may perceive a family member attacking you. You may think that the are producing bad fruit but they are actually trying to help you a sweet fruit.

We never know for sure the actions that drive a person.

So always believe in the best, especially with Family because they love you.

Ummmm - never mind.
You obviously have nothing to say but you enjoy reading your own posts - no matter how irrelevant.

You don’t know my siblings or my relationship with them - I do. You came out of the gate accusing me of judging their hearts. Where you got that I have no idea.

Anyway, it’s probably best that you don’t post accusations unless you know what you’re talking about.

 

[Polaris]

Amen!

I second the motion.

 

[Polaris]

Ummmm - never mind.
You obviously have nothing to say but you enjoy reading your own posts - no matter how irrelevant.

**You don’t **know my siblings or my relationship with them - I do. You came out of the gate accusing me of judging their hearts. Where you got that I have no idea.

Anyway, it’s probably best that you don’t post accusations unless you know what you’re talking about.

I think I will just pray for you and for healing in your family. I always feel sorry for a broken family. It makes me think how I have been blessed.

 

[mark_a]

I know I’m late to the party, but it seems to me that the converts to Catholicism, especially the ones in Catholic media, generally are grateful to and have a positive view of their former protestant authorities.

And the converts from Catholicism generally have an ax to grind.

These observations helped lead me back into the Catholic Church.