Why Are Protestants Here?

[Exporter]

Ahimsa:

I’m not a Catholic, and, according to many, not even a Christian, but I come here because (1) the threads are often of better quality than that found on beliefnet’s Catholic or Christian threads; and (2) I’m trying to understand my fascination with the Catholic faith. Regarding number 2, I’ve always felt that I was probably Catholic or Orthodox in a past life, and I admire the Catholic mystical and contemplative traditions. I don’t agree with much of Catholic dogma, so joining the Church is out of the question, but I am sympathetic to Catholicism, and I see it as one of the more comprehensive and rich spiritual traditions of the world.

---

I can respect what you wrote. You’re trying to understand Catholic faith is comendable. But you said that you can NEVER become Catholic because of Catholic Dogma.

Will you please list one or two Catholic Dogmas that absolutely prevent your becoming Catholic? Do you actually know how many Catholic Dogmas there are? (There are not many!) I am interested to know what it is that facinates you yet repels you.

 

[4_marks]

Exporter:

I found Catholic Answers because I am Catholic abd was looking for a Catholic Forum. I have been here 4 to 5 months.

I have noticed a number of Protestants and yes, even atheists are frequent posters. A few of them pose as Catholics for a while, that is until their emotions cause them to reveal themselves.

Is CA the best Catholic/Christian forum? What is the motive of a Protestant to come here and belittle Catholocism? I do not believe that a nonCatholic comes here to gain knowledge, but rather it is the reverse.

I generally agree with what you have posted. I used to frequent an evangelical fundamentalist sponsored Catholic forum known as CARM. I left because I was sick and tired of having to respond to insults charged against Catholics and the Church in general. The moderators of the group were vehemently anti-Catholic and be-littling toward Catholic posters. When this was pointed out to them by any Catholic, they gang piled upon that person with hostile responses. I couldn’t take the nonsense any longer.

 

[Curious]

That caught my attention Curious!
From my own personal experience this is a sure sign God is working with you.
It’s a wild ride.

In reponse to Exporter’s original question, “Why are Protestants here?”. I cannot answer for all Protestants, only myself.

I am here to learn, to have my questions answered straight from the horse’s mouth (but first I try to look them up myself most of the time), and maybe even to gasp make a few cyber-friends, and to whine around about how I like Catholicism but I’m in a pyscho limbo about my beliefs.

 

[Stingray]

4 marks:

I generally agree with what you have posted. I used to frequent an evangelical fundamentalist sponsored Catholic forum known as CARM. I left because I was sick and tired of having to respond to insults charged against Catholics and the Church in general. The moderators of the group were vehemently anti-Catholic and be-littling toward Catholic posters. When this was pointed out to them by any Catholic, they gang piled upon that person with hostile responses. I couldn’t take the nonsense any longer.

Of course, there are two sides to every story. Anyone interested in getting the whole story can go over to CARM and view the interactions you had there for themselves.

God bless,
Stingray

 

[Scott_Lafrance]

Protestants are here to protest, and to ensure that their flawed, erroneous theology is accurately portrayed.

Exporter:

I found Catholic Answers because I am Catholic abd was looking for a Catholic Forum. I have been here 4 to 5 months.

I have noticed a number of Protestants and yes, even atheists are frequent posters. A few of them pose as Catholics for a while, that is until their emotions cause them to reveal themselves.

Is CA the best Catholic/Christian forum? What is the motive of a Protestant to come here and belittle Catholocism? I do not believe that a nonCatholic comes here to gain knowledge, but rather it is the reverse.

 

[bajolyn]

I am a protestant. You’ve asked why I am here. I would like to tell you why I have been here, and why I am not likely to post here again.

I came here because this site is called “Catholic Answers,” and I was looking for answers to my questions about Catholicism.

I have posted a couple of questions here, and I will admit that they have been things that have probably previously been answered all over the web. The thing is, that the answers generally refer to the *most common *protestant objections to things, and not to my own particular objection. I tried to show my thinking so that you guys could help me understand things from a Catholic perspective. I made it clear in my signature that I was not here to debate, but I have nevertheless gotten slammed for asking questions - and more than once. It was assumed that I was here to debate or inflame (I was not), that I was not sincere (I was), and that I had not done my homework (I have and am still doing it).

For example, I was told I should do my homework instead of coming here to ask questions. The thing is, I am doing my homework. I am reading the Catechism, Eusebius’ History of the Church, some early church fathers, a history of theology, a history of the church, and the Bible. I came here to ask questions because you are a knowledgable and, for the most part, kind and patient group of people, and your answers have often helped me look at things in a way I had not seen them before. Reading apologetics material is wonderful, but sometimes God gives an individual the grace to say something in a way that will really speak to the individual asking the question. To me, that’s one of the beauties of His Body - we are each unique and necessary. That goodness God didn’t just send down a shower of tracts from heaven and say “There, just read those!!!”

Though I am genuinely considering conversion, I don’t think I will be asking more questions on this site. I’ll probably still come here to read, but I doubt if I will post again. There are some truly helpful and lovely people here, and for that, I am thankful. I want to thank each and every one of you who has tried to help me. And I want you to know that I realize that it is only a small minority of people on this site who make people like me feel unwelcome here. The vast majority of you have been helpful and kind. The reason I no longer want to post is that the whole process of considereing conversion is quite wrenching. I definitely don’t need the added stress of being being “flamed.”

I know that some of the things I am saying in this post are similar to things I said in another thread. This thread just seemed to be the right place for them, and I wanted to let you know why I won’t be posting anymore.

By the way, on behalf of every protestant who has ever come here to harass, flame, and otherwise irritate you, please accept my sincere and humble apologies. To do so is wrong and sinful, and I hope you will forgive us.

In Christ,
bajolyn

 

[4_marks]

Stingray:

Of course, there are two sides to every story. Anyone interested in getting the whole story can go over to CARM and view the interactions you had there for themselves.

God bless,
Stingray

Why, so they can have Diane Sellner or Denise or Tom L. or some other anti-Catholic bigot trash the true faith?

Give it up, Stingray. Evangelical fundamentalism is not orthodox Christianity.

 

[Stingray]

4 marks:

Why, so they can have Diane Sellner or Denise or Tom L. or some other anti-Catholic bigot trash the true faith?

Give it up, Stingray. Evangelical fundamentalism is not orthodox Christianity.

No, so they don’t have to take your word for it. However, your comments above really say it all.

God bless,
Stingray

 

[Exporter]

Bajolyn,

You wrote that there happens to be an extremely small number of posters who have made you feel like you don’t want to post here any more. You actually said you came here to ask questions about the Catholic faith, that is a good reason to post here why not contenue and ignore the extremely few who are out of line?

Just a thought. When you get to Purgatory among so many strangers - what are you going to do, go sit in a corner? Come on.

I have been a Roman Catholic for 49 years and 10 months, and I was a convert. I will answer your questions if I know the answers. So I have given you an invitation. I guess us Catholics are outspoken, huh? Use PM if you will.

 

[bajolyn]

Exporter:

I do not believe that a nonCatholic comes here to gain knowledge, but rather it is the reverse.

Dear Exporter,

Thank you for your offer of help, but the line above (from the post with which you began this thread) is one of the types of things that has made me feel unwelcome. It seems that there is a presumption among at least some people on this forum that protestants are only here to cause trouble.

As for me avoiding things, I’ll say this: if every time you walked into a certain room you were immediately hit over the head with a shovel (by even a single individual), you would probably stop going into that room - no matter how many other nice people were in there. Call me a wimp, that’s okay. I just don’t need the extra stress at this time in my life. I think I’ll just stick to reading for now.

In Christ,
bajolyn

 

[4_marks]

Stingray:

No, so they don’t have to take your word for it. However, your comments above really say it all.

God bless,
Stingray

Compelled by my obligation as a Catholic to demonstrate a living sense of the Spiritual Works of Mercy, let me reiterate the wise counsel Lisa4Catholics offered to you in a reply on another thread:

"I would suggest you find out about what we believe and forget what you have been taught we believe."http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon7.gif

 

[Little_Mary]

Stingray:

Of course, there are two sides to every story. Anyone interested in getting the whole story can go over to CARM and view the interactions you had there for themselves.

God bless,
Stingray

Stingray

Do you honestly believe that the moderators here are as anti- protestant as the moderators there are anti-Catholic?

I have frequented the CARM forums myself and based on my experience, my firm opinion is that they - posters and moderators alike- are incredibly biased. The moderators are active in the threads and even start threads -some with an anti-Catholic slant. I said as much in a post there and was immediately suspended (literally - within seconds of posting. My impression was that once they saw that I was Catholic they waited and were ready to pounce - and they did)

You won’t see our moderators here doing that.

Hey CA moderators - thank you for NOT being like the CARM moderators.

 

[Church_Militant]

Stingray:

No, so they don’t have to take your word for it. However, your comments above really say it all.

God bless,
Stingray

Frankly…I’ve seen just this very thing on other fora and been subjected to it as well. I’ve heard this same thing about CARM from other Catholics, so it’s not just 4 Marks…
I have to tell ya Marks that it hadda take some serious fortitude to go in there…but I sure as Vitam Aeternam wouldn’t have. This is targeted A/C literature and as usual I have to wonder why. Since we do not go around targeting Prots and other n-C Christians for evangelism and we do not preach against them from our pulpits, I wonder why they cannot saeem to preach their gospel message without bashing and attacking other belief systems. We don’t do that…we answer when asked…which is scriptural according to 1st Peter 3:15 " But sanctify the Lord Christ in your hearts, being ready always to satisfy every one that asketh you a reason of that hope which is in you." Won’t their gospel stand on it’s own merit? Ours does…

From the CARM website as to “WHAT’S NEW?”
The article site carm.org/catholic/transubstantiation.htm

Transubstantiation
also, known as the Real Presence
Transubstantiation (also known as the real presence) is the Roman Catholic teaching that during the Mass the elements of the Eucharist, the Bread and the Wine, are transformed into the actual Body and Blood of Christ. The Mass contains a series of rituals leading up to the Lord’s Supper. This also contains a reenactment of the sacrifice of Christ. Furthermore, transubstantiation (or the doctrine of the real presence) states that the substance of the elements are miraculously changed, even though their appearance is not. In other words, the bread and wine will appear as bread and wine under close scientific examination, but the true substance is mystically the Body and Blood of Christ. Again, this is also called the doctrine of the Real Presence, since it maintains that the Body and Blood of Christ are really present in the elements. Roman Catholicism states that the incarnation of Christ itself where Jesus was a man, but contained an invisible divine nature, is analogous to the the doctrine of the real presence.
Some of the verses used to substantiate this teaching are the following:

* Matt. 26:28, "for this is My blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for forgiveness of sins."
* John 6:52-53, "The Jews therefore began to argue with one another, saying, “How can this man give us His flesh to eat?” 53 Jesus therefore said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in yourselves"
*      1 Cor. 11:27, " Therefore whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner, shall be guilty of the body and the blood of the Lord."

  Can we conclude from the above verses that the Communion Supper actually involves the change of the elements into the mystical Body and Blood of Christ?

Let’s take a look.

First - there is no indication that the words were meant to be literal

 No where in scripture do we find this teaching.

Based on the way many (not all! Thanks Be To God!) n-Cs post when they come in here to a Catholic site and disparage the Catholic faith, I wouldn’t waste my time with CARM and scarcely post on the 2 n-C fora that I have bookmarked and managed to join. If I wanted to get bashed real good, I’d just go up to the highway and stand in the middle of traffic. It would be A LOT more fun…
Pax vobiscum,

P.S. Why ARE you here Stingray? To find out what we REALLY teach and believe…Or is it to take your personal shot at showing us all the “Errors of our ways?”

 

[Church_Militant]

Please note that this article immediately sets up straw man arguments about John 6 and pulls one verse there out of context instead of honestly examining the entire bread of life discourse which puts much more emphasis on the literalness of Jesus’ remarks. I have found that this is a very common stunt used by those who wish to attack a Catholic belief.

Is it fair and accurate? NO
Is it a fact that they did so in this article? YEP.
Just one example among a lifetime’s worth…
Pax vobiscum,

 

[Stingray]

Little Mary:

Stingray

Do you honestly believe that the moderators here are as anti- protestant as the moderators there are anti-Catholic?

I have frequented the CARM forums myself and based on my experience, my firm opinion is that they - posters and moderators alike- are incredibly biased. The moderators are active in the threads and even start threads -some with an anti-Catholic slant. I said as much in a post there and was immediately suspended (literally - within seconds of posting. My impression was that once they saw that I was Catholic they waited and were ready to pounce - and they did)

You won’t see our moderators here doing that.

Hey CA moderators - thank you for NOT being like the CARM moderators.

Mary,

I’ve been posting on CARM for quite some time now and to be honest I have no idea what you’re talking about. Catholics and non-Catholics have the same kind of exchanges as they do here. Catholics are free to disagree with non-Catholics and are not discriminated against simply because they are Catholic. As far as being biased goes, of course they’re biased. This doesn’t mean they are unfair. They are open about their disagreements with Catholic teaching. The problem is when people take that personally. The rules at CARM prohibit personal attacks. I have seen both Catholics and non-Catholics suspended for such attacks. Since I started posting over here, I have seen many disparaging remarks made to and about non-Catholics. Although it bothers me that people make such remarks, I understand that this is a site made up of predominately Catholic posters. There are always going to be people on both sides who would rather attack the person rather than the position. Or, those who would rather attack a straw man than the position. These are going to be natural occurences in disussion forums like this. Both CARM and CA provide an excellent opportunity for people to discuss things that are honestly sometimes very difficult to discuss in other settings. So I give kudos to both CARM and CA for providing people with the opportunity to discuss these very important matters.

I don’t agree with much of what I see here, but I respect other’s right to have they’re own beliefs. I am interested in discussing both our similarities and our differences in a respectful manner. Like all people, I am not perfect and sometimes do or say things I shouldn’t. If I recognize I have made a mistake, I am willing to apologize and will try not to make it again.

The majority of the time I will be posting over on CARM, but I also plan on continuing posting here as well. Hopefully we will get a chance to talk some more in the future. Until then…

God bless,
Stingray

 

[Lisa4Catholics]

Stingray:

Mary,

I’ve been posting on CARM for quite some time now and to be honest I have no idea what you’re talking about. Catholics and non-Catholics have the same kind of exchanges as they do here. Catholics are free to disagree with non-Catholics and are not discriminated against simply because they are Catholic. As far as being biased goes, of course they’re biased. This doesn’t mean they are unfair. They are open about their disagreements with Catholic teaching. The problem is when people take that personally. The rules at CARM prohibit personal attacks. I have seen both Catholics and non-Catholics suspended for such attacks. Since I started posting over here, I have seen many disparaging remarks made to and about non-Catholics. Although it bothers me that people make such remarks, I understand that this is a site made up of predominately Catholic posters. There are always going to be people on both sides who would rather attack the person rather than the position. Or, those who would rather attack a straw man than the position. These are going to be natural occurences in disussion forums like this. Both CARM and CA provide an excellent opportunity for people to discuss things that are honestly sometimes very difficult to discuss in other settings. So I give kudos to both CARM and CA for providing people with the opportunity to discuss these very important matters.

I don’t agree with much of what I see here, but I respect other’s right to have they’re own beliefs. I am interested in discussing both our similarities and our differences in a respectful manner. Like all people, I am not perfect and sometimes do or say things I shouldn’t. If I recognize I have made a mistake, I am willing to apologize and will try not to make it again.

The majority of the time I will be posting over on CARM, but I also plan on continuing posting here as well. Hopefully we will get a chance to talk some more in the future. Until then…

God bless,
Stingray

Hello Stingray,I told you on another thread to learn more about us because you had expressed the desire to “witness” to Catholics,in the context which you said it,it was condescending and was insinuating that we were not Christians,I again ask you to learn more about us before you make anymore pre-concieved judgements.God Bless

 

[Stingray]

Church Militant:

Frankly…I’ve seen just this very thing on other fora and been subjected to it as well. I’ve heard this same thing about CARM from other Catholics, so it’s not just 4 Marks…
I have to tell ya Marks that it hadda take some serious fortitude to go in there…but I sure as Vitam Aeternam wouldn’t have. This is targeted A/C literature and as usual I have to wonder why. Since we do not go around targeting Prots and other n-C Christians for evangelism and we do not preach against them from our pulpits, I wonder why they cannot saeem to preach their gospel message without bashing and attacking other belief systems. We don’t do that…we answer when asked…which is scriptural according to 1st Peter 3:15 " But sanctify the Lord Christ in your hearts, being ready always to satisfy every one that asketh you a reason of that hope which is in you." Won’t their gospel stand on it’s own merit? Ours does…

From the CARM website as to “WHAT’S NEW?”
The article site carm.org/catholic/transubstantiation.htm

Based on the way many (not all! Thanks Be To God!) n-Cs post when they come in here to a Catholic site and disparage the Catholic faith, I wouldn’t waste my time with CARM and scarcely post on the 2 n-C fora that I have bookmarked and managed to join. If I wanted to get bashed real good, I’d just go up to the highway and stand in the middle of traffic. It would be A LOT more fun…
Pax vobiscum,

P.S. Why ARE you here Stingray? To find out what we REALLY teach and believe…Or is it to take your personal shot at showing us all the “Errors of our ways?”

Hey Michael,

I’m glad you asked. It is because I enjoy discussing our differences in a respectful manner. I’ve been doing that over at CARM for quite some time now. I decided to check out the CA forums when the CARM forums, especially the Catholic board, were having technical difficulties. I have been aware of CA for a long time often visited the site (not the forums) in order to learn more about the Catholic perspective. After joining the forums I searched for a board where I could discuss our differences and I found this:

Non-Catholic Religions
Comparing and contrasting beliefs

Unless I misunderstood, I took this to mean that non-Catholics could come here and respectfully discuss our similarities and differences with Catholics. So, hopefully I’m in the right place for the right reasons.

God bless,
Stingray

 

[MGEISING]

4 marks:

"I would suggest you find out about what we believe and forget what you have been taught we believe."http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon7.gif

** A M E N **

It is amazing how many protestant preachers bash the Catholic Faith … and it isn’t anything that we are taught. I have been in two of my inlaws church … and heard these horrific untruths. It is horrible to be a witness to “christians” condeming another faith …

It is very scary for me … and we should pray constantly - that these men are silenced … since what spews forth from their mouth are lies … It is sobering to hear some of these protestant preachers … condemning practices that Catholics do, when we don’t. Why do Protestant’s preachers lie about our beliefs … to their congregation… ??? It is happening at a church near you, I can guarantee it!

The principalities are at work, 24/7 … and I pray Michael The Arch Angel Prayer often!

 

[Stingray]

Lisa4Catholics:

Hello Stingray,I told you on another thread to learn more about us because you had expressed the desire to “witness” to Catholics,in the context which you said it,it was condescending and was insinuating that we were not Christians,I again ask you to learn more about us before you make anymore pre-concieved judgements.God Bless

Actually Lisa I said “minister” to Catholics. Firstly, Christians can minister to one another. Secondly, I have made statements in other threads on this board that I believe anyone can be a Christian regardless of their denomination. No, I don’t believe all people who call themselves Catholic are Christians. However, I also don’t believe all people who call themselves “insert name here” are Christians. I feel that God has led me to minister to Catholics. If He wants me to minister to Catholics, I’m going to try to do everything possible to do the best job that I can. That’s why I am considering the classes. That is why I said what I said. I have no idea which Catholics are or are not Christians. My concern is to be able to minister to Catholics in the best way I can for His glory.

God bless,
Stingray

 

[Church_Militant]

Stingray:

Hey Michael,

I’m glad you asked. It is because I enjoy discussing our differences in a respectful manner. I’ve been doing that over at CARM for quite some time now. I decided to check out the CA forums when the CARM forums, especially the Catholic board, were having technical difficulties. I have been aware of CA for a long time often visited the site (not the forums) in order to learn more about the Catholic perspective. After joining the forums I searched for a board where I could discuss our differences and I found this:

Non-Catholic Religions
Comparing and contrasting beliefs

Unless I misunderstood, I took this to mean that non-Catholics could come here and respectfully discuss our similarities and differences with Catholics. So, hopefully I’m in the right place for the right reasons.

God bless,
Stingray

That’s the key word Stingray…

Who says that we NEED your ministry Stingray? Just what is it about Catholics that makes you feel like we might need a non-catholic to minister to us. That’s sounds suspiciously like bunk to me. It sounds more like you are someone who feels the need to help us poor misguided catholics find the light of religions outside of our faith. If so…Forget it. We have great priests and ministers of our own…thanks anyway…
But why? What do you care what we believe? We have clearly expressed our faith in Christ and that should be enough for the folks at CARM. What do they care about Transubstantiation or anything else we believe? Look…I WAS part of those churches for over 34 years and I KNOW what the score is…CARM and most of the rest are just trying to evangelize Catholics away from our faith…and don’t even say no…because I’ve SEEN it and heard it for years. That’s one thing that I especially love about CA…at long last Catholics can look Prots and all the rest dead in the eye and tell 'em concisely why we are Catholics and why we are NOT something else and why we aren’t interested in their evangelism.

Hey What IS your gospel that so many of you have to attack the beliefs of another Christian church in an effort to “win souls”? One thing that I have always respected about Rev Billy Graham is that I’ve never heard him say anything about Catholics…or anyone else…He has a message of good news and that’s it. He lays out just what he believes and lets the Holy Spirit do the rest. I can respect a man like that.

Apologetics is knowing why I believe what I believe, and soul winning is presenting the gospel to someone who doesn’t have a faith. They are two entirely different things. Apologetics I do for ME…evangelism…I do for the love of God and the other guy…
Pax vobiscum,