Why are Roman Catholics afraid to admit to being the first Protestants?

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Sixtus

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Largely through the influence of Protestants on this forum, the facts about the Holy Apostolic Orthodox Catholic Church, I have come to realise that Roman Catholics are in fact the first protestants.

So why condemn luther’s followers when you taught them how to be protestants 😃
 
The Orthodox protested the authority of the Bishop of Rome, mainly under the influence of a secualr ruler–just like Protestants did under the influence of secular governments. Catholics didn’t protest anything except the Orthodox and Protestants leaving the visible unity of the one fold.
 
Sixtus said:
Largely through the influence of Protestants on this forum, the facts about the Holy Apostolic Orthodox Catholic Church, I have come to realise that Roman Catholics are in fact the first protestants.

So why condemn luther’s followers when you taught them how to be protestants 😃
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It was the Orthodox who left. Both parties are at fault, but Orthodox split from us.
 
This of course raises the question, how does one determine who left who, especially if, say, both preserved the faith intact? How is schism defined in EO theology? For example, ROs think ROCORs are schismatic, but GOs don’t. Who’s right? Who has authority to excommunicate who if all bishops are of equal authority?

For Catholics, the Bishop of Rome is the source of episcopal unity–that Church is the standard bearer. To depart from commion with the chair of Peter is to depart from the Church.
 
It was the Orthodox who left. Both parties are at fault, but Orthodox split from us.
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…or at least that is what we want the world to believe 😛

St John Paul II pray for us
 
Respectfully, I disagree that **Latin Rite **Catholics are the first protestants. The Catholic Church did not schism from the Orthodox, it is the other way around. First of all, I have the highest respect for the Orthodox, but I firmly believe in the primacy and the authority of the See of Peter and I believe scripture and history backs that up. Furthermore, as the scripture in my signature indicates, the fish (the nations of believers) are indeed gathered by the Apostles (not all, but some). But it is Peter who turns the fish over to Our Lord at the Lord’s request. Though the net Peter carried was so full, it did not tear. Peter’s net is without tear. Interestingly, according to Stephen Ray, the Greek word used for tear is also the root of the word “schism”. So, Peter’s net (Church) is *without *schism. I respect your right to disagree about my interpretation of this scripture, of course. But I find it extremely interesting… remember most of what John had to say had more than one meaning.

The Orthodox present a compelling argument about who is in schism but I remain unconvinced. Other factors come into play as well, such as a lack of universality of the Orthodox Church (Russian, Greek, etc seems much less universal than Latin (west) and Eastern Catholic).

I continue to hope that the Church will heal this breach at some point in the future. Jesus prayed that we might be one and I think it is only fitting that we pray for the same thing.
 
Sixtus said:
Largely through the influence of Protestants on this forum, the facts about the Holy Apostolic Orthodox Catholic Church, I have come to realise that Roman Catholics are in fact the first protestants.

So why condemn luther’s followers when you taught them how to be protestants 😃
Click to expand...
Correction, its the other way around. The Eastern Patriarchs broke with the Holy Father and became the first protestants.

Sorry, but Christ founded the Church on St. Peter, who was the first Bishop of Rome; not on the patsy to the Emperor of Byzantium.
 
Prayer Warrior…

Your sig line has always fascinated me, since I
learned of it some years back…:cool:

I see this episode as a contrast to the earlier
fishing story when the disciples didn’t know
Jesus very well. In that instance they lost many
fish and the boats were almost swamped.

In John’s account, in chap 21, the disciples,
including Peter, followed the Lord’s command
without question and had a very successful
catch, without tearing the nets. (Unity with the
Father through Christ).

Also, of interest, the number of fish is actually
included… 153. That number was of great
interest to me, and still is for that matter!! I have
heard a few things about the 153… that it could
mean there were 153 Roman provinces at that
time… or… there were 153 known species of
fish at this time of history. Ideally it seems to
mean that the “fish” which were to be brought
into the boat, (the church), were to be from
every nation, ethnicity and tongue (the universal,
catholic church).

This church, built upon the foundation of the
Rock, Jesus Christ, had as its first builders the
apostles and prophets who built its first layer.
All those who followed from that time on have
done so with the inspiriation of the Holy Spirit,
who leads us into all truth.

Paul, who identified himelf as the apostle to the
Gentiles, is actually the one to whom God
revealed the mystery of the church. His writings
are replete with references to this mystery of
Christ and the church, the Bride.

It is my belief that all Christian religions, who
profess Christ, who baptize in His name and who
are filled with the Holy Spirit, regardless of their
denominational “tag,” are fellow laborers in God’s
vineyard, building up the body of Christ.

All of these people are included in the 153 fish,
found in the net. It takes the eyes of faith to
actually see them, not just geneologies of popes,
patriarches, tenets and biblical translations.

As St. John plainly states… “Where loves is,
God is.” 😃

I can’t pretend to have a simplistic answer to what
the “church” really is… I couldn’t adequately
describe what the full meaning of the Eucharist
is either. Some things are too big to wrap our
inadequate minds around. “God’s ways are not
the ways of man.” “Who can know the mind of
God?” 😉

Blessings on you and all other readers that
happen by…

Cactus Jack 🙂
 
Pope John Paul II worked to bring about reunion with the East. He says, “The Catholic Church and the Orthodox Church are two lungs within the same Body.” …and how “we must learn to breathe with both lungs.” He also declares that “ignorance of the Eastern Rite is ignorance of the Church.”

It is interesting that folk claim that 'catholicism is based on the Roman see of Peter 😃

What is not being said is that ‘catholicism’ you speak of is in fact 'Roman Catholicism as it that were ‘the only catholicism’. What about all the other catholicisms? 😛

We cannot substantiate and evidence our unity by pretending those not in union do not exist 😛
 
originally posted by Sixtus
Pope John Paul II worked to bring about reunion with the East. He says, “The Catholic Church and the Orthodox Church are two lungs within the same Body
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And who was it that refused to even discuss the reunion?
There’s your answer as to who was the 1st Church.
 
Which Orthodox church is the first Church? There are so many to chose from. Could you please clarify which of the Orthodox churches is the original church?
 
catsrus said:
And who was it that refused to even discuss the reunion?
There’s your answer as to who was the 1st Church.
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Forgive my ignorance. I do not see how this gives an answer to who was the first church.
 
originally posted by Sixtus
Pope John Paul II worked to bring about reunion with the East. He says, “The Catholic Church and the Orthodox Church are two lungs within the same Body
Click to expand...
And who was it that refused to even discuss the reunion?
There’s your answer as to who was the 1st Church.
Click to expand...
I am lost!!!

Let me see, er I have a whole cake. I cut it into three pieces, I hide two then I make one fragment into crumbs. Now, I only have one piece of cake [since I have hidden the other two pieces]. SEE THERE IS THE ANSWER WHICH WAS THE 1ST PIECE OF CAKE 😛
 
Which Orthodox church is the first Church? There are so many to chose from. Could you please clarify which of the Orthodox churches is the original church?
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I would hazard a guess and say Antioch.

There were many churches in the very beginning. There was the church of Corinth, Antioch, Jerusalem etc etc

T
 
Sixtus said:
Largely through the influence of Protestants on this forum, the facts about the Holy Apostolic Orthodox Catholic Church, I have come to realise that Roman Catholics are in fact the first protestants.
Click to expand...
Sorry to disapoint you, but Jesus said "Thou are Peter(Cephas, Rock) and upon this Rock I will build my Church. It is the Orthodox who separated from the See of Peter, the Catholic Church. Not all of the eastern Churches fell out of Communion with the See of Peter. The Malankar, Maronite, Coptic, Antiocene, Ukranian and other eastern Catholic Churches are part of the communion which is the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church.

God bless.
 
I think the Pope wants us to try to be friends guys. This is an arguement perpetuated by anger and ignorance. First, everyone’s angry and I’m ignorant.😃

Give facts and try to talk about the stuff we have in common a bit too. I’m still studying Orthodox History to try to see for myself what happened. But culturally, I’m Latin. But I am absolutely facinated with the Orthodox History. Don’t get me wrong on this, I’m not siding with the Orthodox because I have seen the facts yet. I personally believe that catholicism is suffering because of untransformed clergy with selfish and prideful agendas. We all know that culture is a large part of the problem. I think that we need ot figure this thing out as best we can and work towards unity. Hope there are Orthodox out there that feel the same way.
 
Sixtus said:
Pope John Paul II worked to bring about reunion with the East. He says, “The Catholic Church and the Orthodox Church are two lungs within the same Body.” …and how “we must learn to breathe with both lungs.” He also declares that “ignorance of the Eastern Rite is ignorance of the Church.”

It is interesting that folk claim that 'catholicism is based on the Roman see of Peter 😃

What is not being said is that ‘catholicism’ you speak of is in fact 'Roman Catholicism as it that were ‘the only catholicism’. What about all the other catholicisms? 😛

We cannot substantiate and evidence our unity by pretending those not in union do not exist 😛
Click to expand...
All those Eastern rites you speak of are in Communion with the Pope, as they can recognise the fact that Jesus built his Church on Peter. Are you sure the “two lungs” you speak of was Catholicism and Orthodoxy? Maybe it was East and West, as in Eastern and Latin rite Catholics?
 
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