Why Are Seminaries Afraid of the Extraordinary Form?

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In trying to answer the title question, “Why Are Seminaries Afraid of the Extraordinary Form?”, the simplest answer is that change is often resisted, and the liberalization of the EF is a change.
Now - I do not mean that as a “charge” against those who run the seminaries. I mean it simply as a fact of life.

I spoke briefly with someone at our local seminary and, while I cannot share the precise exchange, the gist of his response to my query was two-fold. 1) The seminary (and seminaries in general) had some questions regarding the Pope’s letter asking that the EF be taught, and 2) That the seminarians schedule of study was already full and it would be difficult to work in something that would be (in his view) sufficient.

As an individual being treated as some sort of outsider, or subversive or whatever…I’d simply chalk it up to individual sin.

Peace
James
 
I found the blogpost really interesting. What never ceases to amaze me is the opposition towards our liturgical heritage. It is truly terrifying how radically things can change in a very short period of time. I wonder what the next pope will do about this question.
I would say that part of the problem is ther term “liturgical heritage”. Everyone who is well educated in Church History and the history of liturgy knows that the mass of 1962 is not the “form of the ages.” There is a difference betweent he mass of the ages and the form of the ages. I think the “mass of the ages” gets a knee-jerk reaction from scholars. That’s why the Vatican steers clear of such a term. I’m not sure who started using that phrase, but it’s wrong. The mass of the ages is the same as we find in the OF, EF, and the different forms in the Latin Church, as well as the different rites in the Universal Church. It is the proclamation of the Gospel, the offering of the sacrifice and the communion of the Church. These three elements make up the mass and they have never changed.

My advice to laymen and women is to monitor their language and to use the language of the Church. For example, when someone says to me, “The Traditional Latin Mass” my initial reaction is ask, “Which one?” We’ve had many forms in Latin. As student of theology and a professor of the same, that experssion does not quite say it, because there are many Latin Masses and many have been abrogated. If someone says, “The Tridentine Form of 1962”, now you’re being very precise. The listener who knows something about theology and history has no reason for a knee-jerk reaction, because you don’t come across as some pious person who doesn’t now the language of the Church. Or simply use the language of the Holy Father, “The Extraordinary Form.”
How do you know so much? Every time you speak it’s history lesson 101! 😛
I don’t know. I’m old? I have been a theology professor for 35 years. Maybe that’s it. 🤷
Sp you look like the monks in this film at 0:42? Well, close enough :p?
youtube.com/watch?v=azvANfe_vEk
I couldn’t see the video. It says that it is blocked in the USA for copyright infringement. We dress like the Franciscans of the Renewal, but we wear a Tau and our cowl is short, whereas they wear the Capuchin cowl, which is long.
 
In trying to answer the title question, “Why Are Seminaries Afraid of the Extraordinary Form?”, the simplest answer is that change is often resisted, and the liberalization of the EF is a change.
Now - I do not mean that as a “charge” against those who run the seminaries. I mean it simply as a fact of life.

I spoke briefly with someone at our local seminary and, while I cannot share the precise exchange, the gist of his response to my query was two-fold. 1) The seminary (and seminaries in general) had some questions regarding the Pope’s letter asking that the EF be taught, and 2) That the seminarians schedule of study was already full and it would be difficult to work in something that would be (in his view) sufficient.

As an individual being treated as some sort of outsider, or subversive or whatever…I’d simply chalk it up to individual sin.

Peace
James
I wouldn’t be too quick to jump on the sin wagon. There were some very legitimate questions asked by bishops and major superiors of religious. UE tried to answer them. It did not cover then all, but it’s a start.

One important question was the issue of degrees and credits. The Holy See requires that priests receive a four-year Master’s Degree in Ministry or a Master’s in Theology. They’re not the same degree. The program of studies has overlaps, but they are different. The M.Div is a pastoral degree. The MA is an academic degree. The accrediting institutions have criteria that the schools of theology must meet in order to confer the degree. There was a question about what to do when they could not find a place in the program to put the study of the EF. One question was, “If we offer the course as an elective, so as not to dabble with the core curriculum which is required for the degree, must everyone who is studying to be a priest take this course?”

The major superiors of men asked, “If our constitutions do not allow the celebration of the EF, must we demand that our religious study it?” Another question from the religious superiors was, “We have a religious order where everyone must achieve a theology or ministry degree, but not everyone will be ordained. If we insist that those who are going to be ordained take these classes and those who are not going to be ordained do not have to take them, we are clericalizing our religious community. How do we deal with this, without going back to the days when we had clericalization?” Religious superiors also asked, “What happens when you have religious in one house where some may prefer the EF and others do not. Do we impose the EF on the house? Do we have two community masses and if so, how do we preserve the unity of the fraternity while having separate masses? Is the unity of the fraternity not of importance to the Church.?” Bishops of countries that don’t have a European culture had questions about imposing the EF on their seminarians.

The Holy See has answered some of these questions in the UE, but there are still letters out there waiting for a response. The religious were told that they do not have impose the EF on their community and the superior has to give permission to celebrate it in public, including in parishes and the laity is asked to be faithful and supportive to those religious who run their parishes. In other words, be supportive of their tradition, because their religious tradition enriches the parish. The other option is for them to leave and most bishops can’t staff these parishes. This would force a closure or merger that people don’t like. The bishops of those countries that are not of European acestry are allowed to incorporate local cultural elements into the Ordinary Form of the mass, so that the local priests do not feel that they are being forced to become European. They can choose the OF or EF, with the EF being more European and the OF allowing for certain local customs.

As I said, many questions are still pending. MY TAKE, do not take this to the bank, is that this is not a number one priority for the Holy See. It’s priority right now is elsewhere. Eventually, they will get to these questions.

I hope that helps.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
I wouldn’t be too quick to jump on the sin wagon. There were some very legitimate questions asked by bishops and major superiors of religious. UE tried to answer them. It did not cover then all, but it’s a start.
(Snip)
Sorry - didn’t mean to toss darts. My reference to individual sin had to do with references in the OP of the seminarian being made to feel like an outsider by others for liking the EF.

As to the rest of your fine post. I appreciate the additional information. The references to religious priest situations makes sense. Still the person I was talking to was at a diocesan seminary and obviously diocesan priests are allowed to, and even encouraged to, say the EF or at least be prepared to.

Ah well - all in due time I guess…🤷

Peace
James
 
As I said at the beginning, I think the article is very well written. I regret that I did not notice the date of the article. Obviously, the situation is not too current, because the writer is ordained.

As I said in one of my previous posts, one of the problems that I see diocesan seminaries facing is an identity problem. For a very long time, secular seminaries operated like novitiates, with much stress on community. To preserve community, they incorporated many of the practices of religious houses of formation; one of those was the uniform community mass.

The Church certainly wants her priests to deal, work and pray with a fraternal spirit; but it’s a different type of fraternity than that found in a religious house. In the religious house, everything is adjusted to support the fraternal life, as it should be. They are religious to be religious, even if they are clerics. If you lose sight of your religious charism, you’re just diocesan priests in vows.

In the secular seminary, they have not yet found a balance. Some are very much like novitiates. Others are like any other college for young men, which is obviously secular, but often lacking in the spiritual life. My personal feeling is that the formation teams must strike that balance that creates a spiritual fraternity, without locking the men into a paradigm that is more appropriate for religious. This degree of uniformity and conformity is unnecessary for the secular priest, be he going to a diocese as a diocesan priest or to a society as part of a fraternity of priests. I think that the faithful were not aware of this concern until SP and UE. In the mind of most lay people, “A priest is a priest” or “All priests are formed the same way. After all, it’s only one Catholic Church.” Well that’s quite the way it works.

It is one priesthood, the priesthood of Jesus Christ, but all priests are not formed the same way. The environment in which they are formed must fit their state in life, that is either secular or consecrated. This, along with the fact that there is some real prejudice against the EF, complicates the matter.

Do not always think that an resistance to the EF is a rejection of the EF. It can be. I would never say that it’s not. But there is this other element that most people don’t know about, the desire of formation teams to maintain cohesive communities by maintaining strict uniformity. The latter has to be reviewd. It may to too much uniformity for diocesan priests.

Having said that, allow me speak as one who comes at this issue from the perspective of a religious who belongs to a family of religious who has some priests. Not all male religious are priests. Each religious community needs to recover its original charism in order to go forward. Sometimes, I feel that the lay faithful do not take seriously the needs of these men and the parameters with which these men operate.

Some lay people make pronouncements about the EF, for or against, as if every ordained man is the same. To the religious, this often causes a great deal of pain, be the comment from the extreme right or extreme left. Religious men feel that they are part of the Church and that they have given much to the Church and have much more to give. They often feel ignored in this discussion, because they are the minority.

When people talk about introducing the EF into seminary formation, how often do they stop to think that most priests in religious orders have never set foot in a seminary. This is a very new thing. For centuries, we were deliberately kept apart to avoid contamination. The secular clergy did not want to be consecrated religious and the religious did not want to be secular clerics.

After Vatican II, some religious began to send their men to study at seminaries. However, not every religious community does so. Most religious communities send their men to study at universities or at colleges of theology that are exclusively for religious. Even those religious communities that send their men to study theology at a diocesan seminary do not allow much interaction. I remember one seminary where there were Capuchin Franciscans. They had their own recreation area, at one table apart from the diocesan seminary and lived in a separate wing. At another diocesan seminary, there are Franciscans of the Eternal Word. They attend classes with the diocesan seminarians, but they live in a separate house. At Catholic University, where I trained, we attended classes with diocesans, but we did not interact. We were friendly. We talked only to religious, played basketball only with religious, prayed only with religious and usually did not hang around the campus. We were friendly, but conscious that we lived in different worlds.

This became very evident at WYD. The organizing committee, which is predominantly lay, planned a mass for seminarians. The only religious who were included were religious who study at seminaries. There were about 4,500 men at this mass and about 200 of them were from religious communities. We know that there are over 2,000 religious studying to be priests and many of these young men went to Madrid. They are theology students, not seminarians, so they were not included.

When they are excluded from activities or not taken into account in these conersations, we run the risk of following the pattern of society. We ignore the minority. When you ignore a minority, you encourage heterodoxy. We need to be careful in our understanding and applications of these documents.

Our expectation regarding the formation of these men must be consistent with their state in life. A secular seminarian should have a diverse experience of liturgy, while a religious should have an experience that is consistent with the charism of his community. The lay faithful should welcome both, because each brings gifts that the other cannot bring.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
*I would say that part of the problem is ther term “liturgical heritage”. *
OK, I accept that the terminology is perhaps not the best one, and thank you for the clarification, but the point I was trying to make is about hostility towards pre-V2 liturgy. You cannot deny that this is a huge problem. What I don’t understand is how a Catholic can be hostile to* anything *that is legitimately and profoundly Catholic as a Mass, regardless of its form. For example, I do not particularly enjoy the NO but am not hostile towards it. The author of the article experienced intimidation and prejudice. I have heard the same thing from a number of priests who had to hide their interest in traditional liturgy, both in seminary and after. I don’t think this can be justified in any way and am very curious how this anti-tradition ideology will be explained and justified in a few decades. It just doesn’t make sense.
 
OK, I accept that the terminology is perhaps not the best one, and thank you for the clarification, but the point I was trying to make is about hostility towards pre-V2 liturgy. You cannot deny that this is a huge problem. What I don’t understand is how a Catholic can be hostile to* anything *that is legitimately and profoundly Catholic as a Mass, regardless of its form. For example, I do not particularly enjoy the NO but am not hostile towards it. The author of the article experienced intimidation and prejudice. I have heard the same thing from a number of priests who had to hide their interest in traditional liturgy, both in seminary and after. **I don’t think this can be justified in any way and am very curious how this anti-tradition ideology will be explained and justified in a few decades. **It just doesn’t make sense.
The first part of your sentence responds to the second part of your sentence. You cannot justify bullying of any kind or for any reason.

I was simply trying to explain that some of the responses were not rooted in a “hatred” for the EF, but for an “unnatural” attachment to monastic practices. Heck, if you read the posts in this form, many of our lay people have an “unnatural attachment” to monastic practices.

What often happens when we develop unnatural attachments is that we become rigd. Rigid people can easily become bullies. This is only an explanation, not a justification.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
It’s a beautiful mass. By the way, was it you who asked me what Franciscan chant sounded like? If you just heard the Alleluia and the Gospel chant, that’s Franciscan chant. It’s much simpler than Gregorian chant. It can be chanted with an organ or without it. It’s very popular, because very few people have the voice to do Gregorian Chant. This is much simpler and more austere.

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
Lol Br JR it was me lol. Sorry I have not had a chance to respond to your email, but I did get it and I appreciate your responce, thank you. I am still looking around for Franciscan chant 😃
But I don’t want to derail the thread.
 
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