Why Are So Many "Born Again" as Protestants?

[GregoryPalamas]

Brain:

At least for younger people, its more fun than a dreary catholic church. why chant when you can sing and sway? but that is just the young people, i hope.

We sing and sway while we chant. We aren’t Charismatic Roman Catholics. We are Byzantine Catholics. Well, maybe we don’t all sway, though I do. We do chant and sing…the entire liturgy. Perhaps it’s finally time to bring back the Gregorian Chant. Maybe its time to remove most of the pews and stand once again.

Dan L

 

[GregoryPalamas]

Sky,

Imagine that. You’ve been here longer than I have. Good to see you. I agree with your post. But I do think it makes a difference where those sacraments are received.

Nevertheless, it’s good to see you here.

Dan L

 

[Mickey]

GregoryPalamas:

We sing and sway while we chant. We aren’t Charismatic Roman Catholics. We are Byzantine Catholics. Well, maybe we don’t all sway, though I do. We do chant and sing…the entire liturgy. Perhaps it’s finally time to bring back the Gregorian Chant. Maybe its time to remove most of the pews and stand once again.

**AMEN! **

 

[UnworthySoul]

ChristFollower:

Exporter that was perhaps the most ignorant statement I have read in my entire online existence, as a 30 year old web designer that is saying a great deal.

To die unto yourself and be reborn in Christ is doing nothing more than following the Word of God as it addresses our salvation. The belief that you need to recieve sacrament from an RCC priest is a legalism of your faith, non-Biblical and by the way, completely dishonors the cross.

Hold your horses there bub. Non-Biblical? You must be new to this site. Ever heard of apostolic succession?

Can you honestly say that Jesus gave Peter the Keys to the Kingdom and the powers to bind and loose for the express purpose of having 31,000 splinter “churches” in the world? He gave Peter authority over the other apostles and authority over the Church. He proceeded to give the apostles the authority to forgive sins in His name. Why would Christ do something to “dishonor” His own Cross? Please. This is no “legalism” of our faith, it is a foundation of what Christ Himself established. To say less dishonors what Christ established.

The issue here is not one of Sacraments. It’s a matter of people thinking they know better than the line of succession Christ Himself established. And for people who refuse to submit to the authority of a Pope… well they do an awful good job of turning into a pope unto themselves.

You say that

 

[UnworthySoul]

GregoryPalamas:

We sing and sway while we chant. We aren’t Charismatic Roman Catholics. We are Byzantine Catholics. Well, maybe we don’t all sway, though I do. We do chant and sing…the entire liturgy. Perhaps it’s finally time to bring back the Gregorian Chant. Maybe its time to remove most of the pews and stand once again.

Dan L

Give me Gregorian Chant over annoying folksy guitar Mass or ultra-annoying “baptist choir music” any day of the week.

 

[On_my_way]

I think the question should have been, Why are there so many “Born Again and again and again and again” as Protestants. Thats what it should have been. With the Catholic Church and Infant Baptism you are only born once. When people say they are “Born Again” what they are saying is that they finally found Jesus. Catholics cannot be born again because with Infant Baptism we receive the Holy Spirit, but as we grow older we have to be able to let the Holy Spirit that is inside of us as Infants, come out.

I have so many friends that say they have been “Born Again” but I ask them how many times are you going to be “Born Again?”

 

[Lillith]

Why do protestants get more converts? Because…it’s way more simple to be a born again Evangelical, You invite Jesus into your heart…and if he wasn’t already there it is a really amazing experience. Catholicism takes more study and contemplation.

I actually had that experience, from a television evangelist(of all things). If you are an Athiest, like I was, and Jesus wasn’t anywhere near, The moment you pray for the first time in your life…you feel G-d’s presence for the very first time it is life altering. Anyone can have that experience BTW. I have heard my protestants husbands family complaining that such and such person has been saved over and over again, and that they hope this time it “sticks”…well, I always think that is so sad, because what they don’t understand is that this person is just feeling G-d’s presence really strongly…and that CAN happen over and over again.

I chose Catholicism because I felt Christ’s presence really strongly there, I felt at home.

 

[Gene_C]

Hi all,

Ponder these quotes from the Catechism before making broad statements about what is or is not a genuine conversion experience. And remember that people can respond to the Word of God in conversion even in “ecclesial communities derived from the Reformation and separated from the Catholic Church.” Of course, the Holy Spirit will draw them to the Church that our Lord founded on St. Peter and it is up to us to facilitate that journey.

1430 Jesus’ call to conversion and penance, like that of the prophets before him, does not aim first at outward works, “sackcloth and ashes,” fasting and mortification, but at the conversion of the heart, interior conversion. Without this, such penances remain sterile and false; however, interior conversion urges expression in visible signs, gestures and works of penance.

1431 Interior repentance is a radical reorientation of our whole life, a return, a conversion to God with all our heart, an end of sin, a turning away from evil, with repugnance toward the evil actions we have committed. At the same time it entails the desire and resolution to change one’s life, with hope in God’s mercy and trust in the help of his grace. This conversion of heart is accompanied by a salutary pain and sadness which the Fathers called animi cruciatus (affliction of spirit) and compunctio cordis (repentance of heart).

1432 The human heart is heavy and hardened. God must give man a new heart. Conversion is first of all a work of the grace of God who makes our hearts return to him: “Restore us to thyself, O LORD, that we may be restored!” God gives us the strength to begin anew. It is in discovering the greatness of God’s love that our heart is shaken by the horror and weight of sin and begins to fear offending God by sin and being separated from him. The human heart is converted by looking upon him whom our sins have pierced:

Grace and peace,
Gene

 

[kp1]

Because it is easy! Yes I said Easy! Why do you think there are so many “Born Aagin” convicts in prison. Just think of it, all you have to do is “Welcome God into your Heart and accept him as your “Personal Savior””. You do not have to confess or admit you have created any sins (mortal or venial) and you are assured of your salvation. You do not have to be accountible for anything and still be “saved”.

Well, just becuase you forgave your neighbor’s son for breaking your window, someone still has to pay for it. I think a lot of “Born Again” Christians are going to be pretty suprised to find themselves in Purgatory.

Now with that said, I can go on. The Catholic faith is difficult to live by, but is God’s will every easy? God does not do things for the fun of it, he started the Papacy to keep us from misinterpretting God’s laws. Man, in the general term, is weak and would rather do what is easy or comfortable. Remember the seven deadly sins, how many of them do we do each and every day for our own selfish needs? I am not perfect, and everyday I struggle to overcome these temptations too. I am continually working towards my salvation and do think I am responsible for my actions (free will).

 

[Shlemele]

I’m sorry but I don’t know of one church that encourages one to be “Born-Again” more than once. Do people do it, yes but the non Catholics in no way are the only ones who don’t do things exactly as their church instructs. I know pleanty of Catholics who practice birth control for non-medical reasons, only go to mass on days of obligation, and believe church is more of a burden than a blessing. Let’s take a time out before we start plucking specks out of others eyes, the 2x4’s tend to get in the way…

 

[GregoryPalamas]

Shlemele:

I’m sorry but I don’t know of one church that encourages one to be “Born-Again” more than once. Do people do it, yes but the non Catholics in no way are the only ones who don’t do things exactly as their church instructs. I know pleanty of Catholics who practice birth control for non-medical reasons, only go to mass on days of obligation, and believe church is more of a burden than a blessing. Let’s take a time out before we start plucking specks out of others eyes, the 2x4’s tend to get in the way…

Point taken.

Dan L

 

[EA_Man]

kp1:

Because it is easy! Yes I said Easy! Why do you think there are so many “Born Aagin” convicts in prison. Just think of it, all you have to do is “Welcome God into your Heart and accept him as your “Personal Savior””. You do not have to confess or admit you have created any sins (mortal or venial) and you are assured of your salvation. You do not have to be accountible for anything and still be “saved”.

Wow, talk about misrepresenting being “born again”!

You would think that people recognizing that they were sinners and turning to Jesus for forgiveness would be a cause for celebration.

Peace

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

Steve-o:

It’s something I’ve often wondered about. Whenever I speak with someone who talks about faith, they always talk about being “Christian”, yet when I ask what denomination, the answer is invariably non-demoninational or some Protestant branch. What gives? Are there many people who find God via the Catholic Church? I’ve even met people who one might assume is catholic (assuming always a dangerous thing, I know), especially if they are hispanic or of Italian descent. I know part of it may be my own personal prejudice in assuming things, but more times than not, Born Again Christians are some sort of Protestant/Non-Denominational sect. Perhaps it’s the evangelical and proselytizing manner by which the Protestants gain their membership.

I realize there are many here who are converts to Catholicism, but the Protestant monopoly on Born Agains is a mystery to me.

It helps that Catholicism tends to emphasise outward conformity rather than inward experience - with Evangelicals, there is usually a very strong stress on conversion to Christ, which is often missing in Catholicism, which is liable to emphasise routine instead - two great Catholic temptations, are legalism & Pelagianism: and they are often not countered by an experience of God’s saving grace: an experience, that is, by which one realises that “Christ died for me” in particular; and not just for the Church-as-a-whole, in general. It’s easier AFAIK to get along without any heartfelt religious commitment as a Catholic, than as an Evangelical. But Christian living should be the living-out of such a commitment - otherwise it risks being a mere external religion without a heart: the sort of religion it is easy to lose.​

Obviously, Evangelicalism has its temptations - including legalism. Evangelicals are to some extent protected against legalism by their stress on personal knowledge of Christ.

Sometimes, people come alive as Christians after leaving the CC because they are in a setting more conducive to their being able to realise that Christian living is a personal thing - not an unfocussed, generalised, something to do to be saved. Catholic teaching can be very impersonal - as though Catholicism were a religion of nothing but rules. And rules, are not life; nor can they give life. ##

 

[ComradeAndrei]

Sometimes, people come alive as Christians after leaving the CC because they are in a setting more conducive to their being able to realise that Christian living is a personal thing - not an unfocussed, generalised, something to do to be saved.

Or they never bothered to crack open any good apologetics books and read up on the Faith. At one point, I was a somewhat legalistic and lukewarm Catholic-then I started reading. I read about everything Catholic I can get my hands on-and talk about gaining a more personal relationship with Christ Jesus and His Holy Catholic Church! It is most certainly NOT an “unfocussed, generalized, something to do to be saved” sort of thing.

Catholic teaching can be very impersonal - as though Catholicism were a religion of nothing but rules. And rules, are not life; nor can they give life. ##

That is because you must make that decision to follow the Church that Christ set up-or fall victim to the glamour and glitz offered by other religions or secularism. Sure, protestantism can seem more “appealing” because they have all these fellowship get to gethers and more emphasis on “personal” issues but the Catholic Church requires that people do something even more personal.

In Catholicism, it is YOU that has to get up in the morning and go to Mass. It is YOU that has to admit that you committed such and such sins (if you did) and go to Confession. It is YOU that has to live the Faith handed down to us from the Apostles-no one is there holding your hand and leading you around-you have to make the first step. It also doesn’t rely on personal feelings, the grace confered by the Sacraments works whether you “feel” it or not. The Catholic Church can seem cold to non-Catholics but Sacraments, the full Deposit of the Faith and the all-encompasing Truth that the Church offers more than makes up for all the other stuff that protestantism has to offer.

 

[EA_Man]

ComradeAndrei:

That is because you must make that decision to follow the Church that Christ set up-or fall victim to the glamour and glitz offered by other religions or secularism. Sure, protestantism can seem more “appealing” because they have all these fellowship get to gethers and more emphasis on “personal” issues but the Catholic Church requires that people do something even more personal.

In Catholicism, it is YOU that has to get up in the morning and go to Mass. It is YOU that has to admit that you committed such and such sins (if you did) and go to Confession. It is YOU that has to live the Faith handed down to us from the Apostles-no one is there holding your hand and leading you around-you have to make the first step. It also doesn’t rely on personal feelings, the grace confered by the Sacraments works whether you “feel” it or not. The Catholic Church can seem cold to non-Catholics but Sacraments, the full Deposit of the Faith and the all-encompasing Truth that the Church offers more than makes up for all the other stuff that protestantism has to offer.

This reply demonstrates why many Protestants claim that Catholicism is legalism. Legalism seeks to justify the individual before God.

Legalism is a deception. If I am walking in legalism, I THINK I am keeping myself right with God by my works or by my spiritual accomplishments. But I am NOT. Why? Because If I am in Christ, I am already right with God because of Christ. Thus, I am living a lie to walk otherwise. I am trying to do what for myself what Jesus has already done. That is why Paul is able to tell the Galatians:

Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; you are fallen from grace. (Gal. 5:4)

Christ has become of “no effect” for them because they are not relying upon Him. They are relying upon themselves – their works.

Peace

 

[buffalo]

Catch the part here about Practical Protestantism from This Rock Magazine

Making Converts of Cradle Catholics

Practical Protestantism

A practical atheist claims to believe in God but lives like an unbeliever; a practical Protestant professes to be Catholic but practices his religion like a Protestant.

Remember that the essence of being converted to Catholicism is recognizing the teaching voice of the Church as the teaching voice of Christ. Everything else will follow. But suppose we do not? Whose voice do we substitute for the voice of the Church? Who speaks for Christ?

Protestants claim it is “Scripture alone,” but this assertion does not get to the heart of the matter. To derive Scripture’s meaning, one must interpret it. And each individual must decide for himself which interpretation to accept. In the end, Protestantism comes down to a private judgment: what I think the Bible says. Ultimately, there is no authoritative voice that one can be sure echoes the voice of Christ.

** When a Catholic fails to accept the authority of the Church to teach in the name of Christ, he has in effect adopted the underlying rule of Protestantism as his divining rod: his own personal judgment. Rather than humbly accepting the truth—that deposit of faith entrusted to the Church—he makes himself the judge over truth: “I’ll accept this, but I won’t accept that.”**

How can we know if practical Protestantism is blocking someone’s conversion to belief in the Church? He may say, “I don’t see anything wrong with artificial contraception.” Or, “I don’t understand why the Church says it’s a sin to miss Mass on Sunday. What’s the big deal?” Or, “I don’t think the documents of Vatican II are valid.”

** He is actually saying: “If I don’t see it, understand it, agree with it—if it does not correspond with my personal views—then I don’t have to accept or obey the Church’s teaching.”**

You’ll notice that this affliction of practical Protestantism can swing either left or right. It makes itself evident whenever we think we know better than the Church. If we reject the teachings of an ecumenical council, if we refuse “religious submission of mind and will” (LG 25) to the Church’s magisterium—even its ordinary magisterium—or if we insist on remaining “loyal” to an alleged apparition after the Church has ruled that it is not worthy of belief, we have stepped outside the realm of Catholicism into practical Protestantism. For we are not merely rejecting a particular teaching of the Church; we are denying the Church’s divine prerogative to teach and govern authoritatively—that is, with the authority of Christ.

Even if we claim to be “more Catholic than the pope,” we have revealed that we have yet to be converted to a real understanding of what the Church is and what it means to be Catholic. We are forgetting that “the Church”—and not our idea of what Catholicism ought to be—is “the pillar and bulwark of the truth” (1 Tim. 3:15).

Highlighting this conflict between practical Protestantism and authentic Catholicism points out the need for Catholics to experience a deeper conversion to the Church. And this need must be acknowledged, because an individual will not seek to become Catholic at heart if he thinks he already is.

So what are the dispositions of heart and life-changing truths that helped bring so many into the Church and that, if fostered, may turn cradle Catholics into converts?

more…

 

[ComradeAndrei]

Because If I am in Christ, I am already right with God because of Christ.

God set up His Church (the Catholic Church) as necessary. You are not right with God if you are not right with His Church. People do not necessary need to be members of the Church in name (such as those baptized in blood or by desire) but outside of the Church there is no salvation.

Protestants may think Catholicism is legalism, but they are mistaken. Justification comes from faith AND works. Faith without works is dead.

 

[EA_Man]

ComradeAndrei:

God set up His Church (the Catholic Church) as necessary. You are not right with God if you are not right with His Church. People do not necessary need to be members of the Church in name (such as those baptized in blood or by desire) but outside of the Church there is no salvation.

Protestants may think Catholicism is legalism, but they are mistaken. Justification comes from faith AND works. Faith without works is dead.

To say that faith is insufficient for justification is to claim that act of Christ’s Sacrifice is insufficient in that something needs to be added to it.

What can be added to Christ’s sacrifice to justify someone (make them righteous) in God’s sight? What act can be performed that will make them righteous? The answer is none. If I’m wrong please provide the act or acts that accomplish the completion of our justification.

Peace

 

[Fiat]

EA_Man:

To say that faith is insufficient for justification is to claim that act of Christ’s Sacrifice is insufficient in that something needs to be added to it.

What can be added to Christ’s sacrifice to justify someone (make them righteous) in God’s sight? What act can be performed that will make them righteous? The answer is none. If I’m wrong please provide the act or acts that accomplish the completion of our justification.

Peace

EA_Man:

In response to whether or not an action can be performed that can make someone righteous, you should perhaps read your Bible a little more closely.

The first chapter and verse of the Book of Job from the King James Bible says this:

“There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; and that man was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil.”

Also, in Luke 1:5-6, St. Luke describes the parents of John the Baptist, saying in verse 6, “They were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.”

Peace
Fiat

 

[EA_Man]

Fiat:

EA_Man:

In response to whether or not an action can be performed that can make someone righteous, you should perhaps read your Bible a little more closely.

The first chapter and verse of the Book of Job from the King James Bible says this:

“There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; and that man was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil.”

Also, in Luke 1:5-6, St. Luke describes the parents of John the Baptist, saying in verse 6, “They were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.”

Peace
Fiat

Does that description by Luke exempt them from the need of a Savior? Or have “all sinned and fallen short”?

Paul also referred to himself as being “faultless” with respect to “legalistic righteousness”. (Philippians 3:6) But what does he say about the Law? Does he say that the Law can save? No.

Since Scripture cannot contradict itself, which is it? Can you avoid the Cross by adhereing to the Law?

Peace