Why are so many catholics anti-2nd amendment?

[down_under]

I see your point about criminals=criminals thats why most of my suggestions revolve around making it harder for guns to end up in criminal hands not banning them outright. I would support mandatory gun safety training along the lines of what I got as a scout or in hunter safety training. I like trigger locks and the Norwegian laws requiring lock boxes to be bolted to the house so the guns are much harder to steal.

As far as the suicide stuff goes 90% or so of people that attempt suicide and fail dont attempt again, so if you can make that first attempt less lethal or even more painful like a knife vs a gun you have a good chance of preventing the suicide. Thats why in the US while more women attempt suicide more men “succeed” men tend to use guns.

I agree this has been interesting, and with the exception of one poster we have all been polite and refrained from questioning each others willingness to submit to the teachings of the Church.

okay here is an interesting bit. In Australia we lock our guns in safes by law when they are not in use. I don’t really agree with a lot of the other laws on the books, or the stated purpose for this law, but I have it from a man who works security for banks and small to large business security. The law was great in stopping the 6-12 year old from (pardon the pharse) blowing themselves into Gods presence. It was great for that one purpose. It did nothing to deter crime however. Interesting I thought it did, but I have it from a man who responds to the break ins. Basically the $250 safes the average joe buys at the department store stops the average criminal for about 3 seconds, the upgraded model will slow him down for about 3 minutes. His words not my idea. According to the security industry if you want to stop your safe from being stolen (happens no matter how heavy) you have to recess it into the wall/floor. Bolting just does not stop the crowbar. I watched a 2 ton safe get delivered by 2 guys with 16inch conduit so weight is not a deterrent. The owners that were smarter have there safe doors defeated often with the very tools left unlocked in the victims house. Some of those safes are defeat-able, in less time then it took me to write this sentence, without tools, by the bump method. Upgraded models get the angle grinder and a pocket full of disks used on them. High end stuff has oxy used on it. (bump method - It involves the way the manufacturer lined up the solenoid inside that keeps pressure on the lock.)
With the suicide thing though unless you make kitchen knives, pocket knives and the like illegal (along with broken glass), you are really not stopping the offense your just changing the method. He is thinking about death, weather he is staring down the barrel of a gun making up his mind or down at the water under the bridge making up his mind he is still thinking about death not the method. Besides I don’t see a shortage of tall building. So no I just don’t see that as a legit argument. That is it has holes in it when it comes to gun control.

 

[Dan202]

okay here is an interesting bit. In Australia we lock our guns in safes by law when they are not in use. I don’t really agree with a lot of the other laws on the books, or the stated purpose for this law, but I have it from a man who works security for banks and small to large business security. The law was great in stopping the 6-12 year old from (pardon the pharse) blowing themselves into Gods presence. It was great for that one purpose. It did nothing to deter crime however. Interesting I thought it did, but I have it from a man who responds to the break ins. Basically the $250 safes the average joe buys at the department store stops the average criminal for about 3 seconds, the upgraded model will slow him down for about 3 minutes. His words not my idea. According to the security industry if you want to stop you safe from being stolen (happens no matter how heavy) you have to recess it into the wall/floor. Bolting just does not stop the crowbar. I watched a 2 ton safe get delivered by 2 guys with 16inch conduit so weight is not a deterrent. The ones that were smarter have there doors defeated often with the very tools left unlocked in the victims house. Some of those safes are defeat-able, in less time then it took me to write this sentence, without tools by the bump method. It involves the way the manufacturer lined up the solenoid inside that keeps pressure on the lock.
With the suicide thing though unless you make kitchen knives, pocket knives and the like illegal (along with broken glass), you are really not stopping the offense your just changing the method. He is thinking about death, weather he is staring down the barrel of a gun making up his mind or down at the water under the bridge making up his mind he is still thinking about death not the method. Besides I don’t see a shortage of tall building. So no I just don’t see that as a legit argument. That is it has holes in it when it comes to gun control.

Interesting, in the US most states dont require and specific storage or even trigger locks to keep kids from shooting themselves or friends.

I still disagree about the suicide thing, most people are only actively suicidal for a brief period and then it subsides. Remember that for most folks they have slowed thinking and impaired judgement to go with the suicidal ideation they tend to go for whatever is easiest. Pills, knives etc provide more opportunity for rescue, this is from research and personal experience as a Psych Nurse. Of course some people will make multiple attempts but 90% of people only make one so if they survive they can get treatment, not many people survive a gun.

 

[surritter]

…its the ones the size of the palm of your hand, the little ones, that might kill you before you dial poison control.

Yikes! Australians think that a spider the size of a hand’s palm is a small spider?

 

[down_under]

Interesting, in the US most states dont require and specific storage or even trigger locks to keep kids from shooting themselves or friends.

I still disagree about the suicide thing, most people are only actively suicidal for a brief period and then it subsides. Remember that for most folks they have slowed thinking and impaired judgement to go with the suicidal ideation they tend to go for whatever is easiest. Pills, knives etc provide more opportunity for rescue, this is from research and personal experience as a Psych Nurse. Of course some people will make multiple attempts but 90% of people only make one so if they survive they can get treatment, not many people survive a gun.

Ya the method tends to be man vs women thing though at least thats what I was taught. Guys tend to use violent means, the gun, the bridge, the knife.
women tend to use the pills, which tends to be more painful and take longer. don’t really know why that is. but it was in my pharmacy class on antipsychotics. terrible stuff that. I don’t know that the safe will stop someone in a temporary psychotic moment. He tends to already have the method. I can appreciate him not gaining access to dad’s pistol. The safe rules were one of the few rules that actually solved a real problem here. The safe did nothing to deter crime, but they did become a locked storage locker. Which was a win in those rare cases of the uninitiated gaining access. I value all lives I say rare in that people drown in 6 inches of water every year (600 or so), but its rare. horrible but rare.

 

[Dan202]

Ya the method tends to be man vs women thing though at least thats what I was taught. Guys tend to use violent means, the gun, the bridge, the knife.
women tend to use the pills, which tends to be more painful and take longer. don’t really know why that is. but it was in my pharmacy class on antipsychotics. terrible stuff that. I don’t know that the safe will stop someone in a temporary psychotic moment. He tends to already have the method. I can appreciate him not gaining access to dad’s pistol. The safe rules were one of the few rules that actually solved a real problem here. The safe did nothing to deter crime, but they did become a locked storage locker. Which was a win in those rare cases of the uninitiated gaining access. I value all lives I say rare in that people drown in 6 inches of water every year (600 or so), but its rare. horrible but rare.

Yeah some of those non-prescription meds are the worst. I have never seen one but from what I understand Asprin is one of the worst ways to go, high blood pressure, headache, tinnitus and then of course death.

As far as gender differences go I have heard/read some speculation that the difference in methods stem from differences in aggression and a desire to make cleanup easier or avoid disfigurement.

 

[LongingSoul]

The guy calling himself ‘downunder’ said he was a gun lover from Indiana who moved to Australia. Please don’t think he is representative of Australian feeling about guns.

People do seek out guns for suicide because they are the most guaranteed means to kill a human being. To apply for a gun license you have to meet a standard and the authorities are aware of the suicide motive. It doesn’t prevent all gun suicides but it does make it more difficult. Many people who don’t feel they have a surefire way of suicide like the gun… won’t try it.

The restrictions and requirements for safe storage convey the dangerous nature of the gun. Some people seem to mistake guns for toys or extentions of their own body… no more offensive than the right hook or a slap on the face. The fact is that they are a highly accurate and lethal weapon, made for the purpose of killing living things.

 

[down_under]

The guy calling himself ‘downunder’ said he was a gun lover from Indiana who moved to Australia. Please don’t think he is representative of Australian feeling about guns.

People do seek out guns for suicide because they are the most guaranteed means to kill a human being. To apply for a gun license you have to meet a standard and the authorities are aware of the suicide motive. It doesn’t prevent all gun suicides but it does make it more difficult. Many people who don’t feel they have a surefire way of suicide like the gun… won’t try it.

The restrictions and requirements for safe storage convey the dangerous nature of the gun. Some people seem to mistake guns for toys or extentions of their own body… no more offensive than the right hook or a slap on the face. The fact is that they are a highly accurate and lethal weapon, made for the purpose of killing living things.

well that was only semi accurate. I said I was from Indiana. I don’t ever recall calling myself a “gun Lover”.

guns are not and will never be “the most guaranteed means to kill a human being.” in fact it is usually very hard to hit anything with a gun if you don’t know what you are doing. I am not sure where your conjecture about what most people feel comes from please feel free to clarify a given source I’ll certainly listen.

The restrictions and requirements for storage convey the requirement for safe storage and that is about it. I don’t know how many people you know in the gun culture, but I have met a few thousand and I never met anyone here who that of a gun as a toy or extension of their body.
you seem to speak for a LOT of people. do you have a source for some of this, or is this your opinion. Its okay if its just your opinion. I would just like to clarify the difference.
As exmilitary I can say for certain that any given gun is only highly accurate and lethal weapon in a highly trained hand. In fact in most cases the automobile is more dangerous. So is the swimming pool for that matter.