Why are so many Catholics attending non-denominational services?

[Diana_Catherine]

I attend both a local non-denominational church and the Catholic church that I grew up in. It’s hard to p(name removed by moderator)oint when I started having difficulties with our local church but definitely after I was married. My husband isn’t Catholic but was very willing to support me going to church but, in his own words, didn’t get anything out of mass and was only going to make me happy. That made me pause and think of what I really wanted for our family. I still don’t know the answer.

What I do know is that out of the three priests that belong to our church one I cannot understand (in fact many cannot understand and petitions have been written to the Bishop of our Diocese to move him to a Vietnamese speaking community as he would flourish there), one I can understand half of the time (he is from the Philippines only as an older adult did he move to the US, and the third is easily understood but 70+ (I think 76) years old and doesn’t have the energy that he once had. As a mother of a young child I cannot attend the bible studies as no childcare is offered and there is no mothers group like MOPS even offered. I tried participating in the Mass as much as possible but with a very active 2 year old and a husband who only attends sporadically I was basically spending the mass trying to contain my child and wasn’t getting any message out church. Yes, I’d receive the Eucharist but when it was after a 50 minute struggle to keep Abby quiet, still, and contained any grace I might have gotten was overcome by frustration and just wanting Mass to end so I could get out of there and get home so Abby could get her wiggles out. There is no childcare available and Sunday school doesn’t start until the child is 3.

At the non-denominational church I miss the hymns, the traditional worship, and the reverence. I do enjoy being able to understand everything that is being said and find myself really interested in the sermon since it’s basically an hour long bible study with real life application. Abby goes into the children’s program for Sunday school where she colors Bible pictures, sings Bible songs, and watches a Bible movie (such as Veggie Tales). I get my faith bucket filled for the week and find myself more apt to spread the message of God to Abby since I come away with some new nugget from the sermon.

Our local parish has stepped up for teens and kids attending the parish school. However, it still is a parish with a low-energy Priest, with unintelligible Priests, without any mothering support, and with few family activities outside of Mass.

So in a long nutshell that’s why I’m a Catholic who occasionally attends a non-denomination church. Am I happy about it? No. Do I struggle with my decision? Yes. Do I want to come back to only going to Catholic Mass? Sometimes. Am I prayerfully continuing on my Faith journey in the hopes that whatever path I may take I come closer, and my family comes closer, to God? Yes.

I understand where you are coming from. That is kind of how we ended up leaving the Catholic faith many years ago, a decision I regret. I am a revert. Our son was little. I was a young inexperienced mother. It was hard at mass keeping him quiet as a baby and so I looked for a church that had a nursery or children’s church. I don’t know why at this time I didn’t just go to the cry room but I was very weak in my faith. I truly did not understand the mass, so as someone else suggested I think it is very important to understand what you would be leaving before you make such a decision. Especially, when years later you realize you did not provide the sacraments for your children and they may are older and not want to receive them or follow you back to the Catholic faith once you decide to come home. Fortunately for me God returned me to the Catholic faith before that was a problem but it was a hard regret, my son is in the church,.
Also, I think people understand more of what a mother is going through at mass trying to keep her children quiet than what most mothers realize. At our parish we have lots of noisy restless children, nobody seems to say anything.

I would study your faith and pray the rosary every day for God to lead you and your husband into knowing what is truly going on at mass because I think once you understand what is happening, the rest falls into place and you get out of mass what God intended for you to get.

 

[jjtc]

This thread reminded me of something I read just last night from one of the Doctors of the Church, St. Cyril of Jerusalem. Writing in the early 300s this Bishop of Jerusalem was instructing new converts on being careful when entering new cities;

If ever you sojourn in the cities, do not ask simply where the Lord’s house is (for the sects of the impious also dare to call their haunts houses of the Lord) nor merely where the Church is, but where the Catholic Church is. For this is the distinctive name of this Holy Church, the mother of us all, and the spouse of our Lord Jesus Christ, the only begotten Son of God (for it is written: “As Christ also loved the Church and delivered himself up for her”)…

Very interesting. He goes on to talk directly about the real presence and then even outlines the Mass which is exactly as it is celebrated today. The Early Church Fathers were distinctively Catholic; I pray we can all come together again as the One, True Body of Christ.

 

[Diana_Catherine]

This thread reminded me of something I read just last night from one of the Doctors of the Church, St. Cyril of Jerusalem. Writing in the early 300s this Bishop of Jerusalem was instructing new converts on being careful when entering new cities;

If ever you sojourn in the cities, do not ask simply where the Lord’s house is (for the sects of the impious also dare to call their haunts houses of the Lord) nor merely where the Church is, but where the Catholic Church is. For this is the distinctive name of this Holy Church, the mother of us all, and the spouse of our Lord Jesus Christ, the only begotten Son of God (for it is written: “As Christ also loved the Church and delivered himself up for her”)…

Very interesting. He goes on to talk directly about the real presence and then even outlines the Mass which is exactly as it is celebrated today. The Early Church Fathers were distinctively Catholic; I pray we can all come together again as the One, True Body of Christ.

Wow, thank you for that quote. As John Henry Newman said, “to be deep in history is to cease to be protestant.” That is how it worked for me. I pray it will for others. God has given us so many ways to study history today.

 

[EasterJoy]

…As for homilies, I’d suggest signing up to be on the e-mail list for the abbot’s homily from the Benedictine Monastery of Christ in the Desert, in New Mexico (christdesert.org/). It comes into your e-mail box a few days early, so you can prepare for Sunday. You can find the readings for each day at the USCCB web site…

The Abbot’s homily comes on Wednesday or Thursday with the readings included for the coming Sunday. The USCCB site is good for everyday readings, though, or for checking backwards and forwards for how the Sunday readings connect from week to week thoughout the year.

 

[AnneTeresa]

I was one of those who left (I’ve since come back). Here are some of the reasons:

To hear about Jesus–people openly talked about Jesus at ND church, wanted to be with people who “got” it
To get good Biblical teaching
Kids programs are better
Teen programs are better
Small group model gave me a community of people to grow with, share life with
Grew up with liturgy, wanted something more relaxed
Guess it comes down to I’d never met a catholic who really lived for Jesus and so I went elsewhere and I wasn’t being fed once I did meet Jesus myself

And yes, I didn’t understand the catholic teaching on Eucharist at the time. Didn’t understand mass, didn’t understand catholic church period.

PS I should note that this was a long time ago. But I think some of these reasons are still true today.

 

[Seeker1961]

I was one of those who left (I’ve since come back). Here are some of the reasons:

To hear about Jesus–people openly talked about Jesus at ND church, wanted to be with people who “got” it
To get good Biblical teaching
Kids programs are better
Teen programs are better
Small group model gave me a community of people to grow with, share life with
Grew up with liturgy, wanted something more relaxed
Guess it comes down to I’d never met a catholic who really lived for Jesus and so I went elsewhere and I wasn’t being fed once I did meet Jesus myself

And yes, I didn’t understand the catholic teaching on Eucharist at the time. Didn’t understand mass, didn’t understand catholic church period.

The small group models that ND churches uses are very good. These large churches realized that they needed a way to keep people connected and growing and it works. I still have friends that I made during my 2 year stint at the ND church. You have people there for you, to listen and to hold you accountable. You pray together, you read Scripture together and you do life together. I can tell them anything and they can share anything with them.

I tried talking to our Pastor about developing similar programs in our parish-even volunteered to organize and manage the process-but he wasn’t interested in supporting it in any way. I was told that there were Bible Studies, Rosary Society and the Knights and people should join those to get connected. I tried…but it was not the same. Nobody was talking about Jesus or how they were doing spiritually. Sure, they were doing great things for the community-but you need both. You need outreach groups and groups that get people connected to one another spiritually.

I’ve never met Catholics who live for Jesus like the people at my ND church did. I’ve met wonderful Priests and Sisters, and good Catholic lay people-but that kind of radical, total surrender, sold out for Jesus ordinary people-not at any Catholic Church I’ve ever attended.

If we could combine that kind of sold out faith with the Catholic Church…we’d really change the world.

 

[Diana_Catherine]

The small group models that ND churches uses are very good. These large churches realized that they needed a way to keep people connected and growing and it works. I still have friends that I made during my 2 year stint at the ND church. You have people there for you, to listen and to hold you accountable. You pray together, you read Scripture together and you do life together. I can tell them anything and they can share anything with them.

I tried talking to our Pastor about developing similar programs in our parish-even volunteered to organize and manage the process-but he wasn’t interested in supporting it in any way. I was told that there were Bible Studies, Rosary Society and the Knights and people should join those to get connected. I tried…but it was not the same. Nobody was talking about Jesus or how they were doing spiritually. Sure, they were doing great things for the community-but you need both. You need outreach groups and groups that get people connected to one another spiritually. .

May I suggest you try looking into a Cursillo weekend if there is one near you or not too far away. These weekends are great and help you to meet people and after your weekend a group is usually organized and meets frequently to keep each other connected and accountable and living for Jesus.

There are also many lay organizations, such as Opus Dei, the Discalced Carmelites, the
Franciscans, lay Dominicans, and many more if you search them out. If you are a woman there are many parishes that offer Rosary societies, Bible studies, they need assistants in the schools, the Catholic hospitals are always looking for volunteers and you meet a lot of Catholics on fire for Christ there. There are many opportunities if they are prayed over and sought out. Check out your diocese to see what parishes offer what. Also, you don’t have to wait for your parish to start a Bible study, some women I know started one that meets once a month and the women all belong to different parishes, they just found they had friends in common on FB.

I’ve never met Catholics who live for Jesus like the people at my ND church did. I’ve met wonderful Priests and Sisters, and good Catholic lay people-but that kind of radical, total surrender, sold out for Jesus ordinary people-not at any Catholic Church I’ve ever attended.

If we could combine that kind of sold out faith with the Catholic Church…we’d really change the world.

I’m sorry I guess I find that a little offensive. I have family members who have lived for Jesus very strongly and lived for the Catholic faith and I see people every day living for the Lord and are Catholic. I believe a lot of the people on this forum who are on fire for the Lord would be a little offended also. There are young moms who work very hard making their homes a Catholic place lived for Jesus and fathers going off to work every day to provide for their family and raise large families because they love and obey the Lord. There are teachers and volunteers at hospitals and clinics and missionaries and more. There are so many Catholics out there living for God. True there are those that don’t but that is in all denominations.

I have been in both types of churches and people are people and there are people on fire for the Lord in both and lukewarm people in both. I have heard people talk of horrible things in the ND churches and be for the Lord only on the weekends only for the music and then there are those who love the Lord every day and do their best to live for him daily but you find the exact same thing in the Catholic faith, the Methodist faith, the Lutheran faith and the other denominations. There are people who are ready to step out and live for him every day and then there are those that are weekend Christians and you find that everywhere. There are many great Catholics out there living for their faith. Look at all the shows on EWTN, this forum, the blogs, the websites, the soup kitchens. I’m sorry I could just go on and on because that is exactly what brought me back to the Catholic faith. There wasn’t anything going on in the ND churches. No accountability. Groups falling apart. Our group leader skipped town and never returned after giving all the husbands a lecture on making sure you don’t miss a meeting.

The difference is in our Catholic faith we have the true and full presence of Christ that can give us more help, more guidance, more of whatever we need than can be found in any other denomination and we have Mary our Mother to give us graces and pray for us and the saints to pray for us. They were pretty on fire Catholics.

We have the Eucharist.

God bless and I pray for you on your seeking.

 

[Seeker1961]

May I suggest you try looking into a Cursillo weekend if there is one near you or not too far away. These weekends are great and help you to meet people and after your weekend a group is usually organized and meets frequently to keep each other connected and accountable and living for Jesus.

There are also many lay organizations, such as Opus Dei, the Discalced Carmelites, the
Franciscans, lay Dominicans, and many more if you search them out. If you are a woman there are many parishes that offer Rosary societies, Bible studies, they need assistants in the schools, the Catholic hospitals are always looking for volunteers and you meet a lot of Catholics on fire for Christ there. There are many opportunities if they are prayed over and sought out. Check out your diocese to see what parishes offer what. Also, you don’t have to wait for your parish to start a Bible study, some women I know started one that meets once a month and the women all belong to different parishes, they just found they had friends in common on FB.

I’m sorry I guess I find that a little offensive. I have family members who have lived for Jesus very strongly and lived for the Catholic faith and I see people every day living for the Lord and are Catholic. I believe a lot of the people on this forum who are on fire for the Lord would be a little offended also. There are young moms who work very hard making their homes a Catholic place lived for Jesus and fathers going off to work every day to provide for their family and raise large families because they love and obey the Lord. There are teachers and volunteers at hospitals and clinics and missionaries and more. There are so many Catholics out there living for God. True there are those that don’t but that is in all denominations.

I have been in both types of churches and people are people and there are people on fire for the Lord in both and lukewarm people in both. I have heard people talk of horrible things in the ND churches and be for the Lord only on the weekends only for the music and then there are those who love the Lord every day and do their best to live for him daily but you find the exact same thing in the Catholic faith, the Methodist faith, the Lutheran faith and the other denominations. There are people who are ready to step out and live for him every day and then there are those that are weekend Christians and you find that everywhere. There are many great Catholics out there living for their faith. Look at all the shows on EWTN, this forum, the blogs, the websites, the soup kitchens. I’m sorry I could just go on and on because that is exactly what brought me back to the Catholic faith. There wasn’t anything going on in the ND churches. No accountability. Groups falling apart. Our group leader skipped town and never returned after giving all the husbands a lecture on making sure you don’t miss a meeting.

The difference is in our Catholic faith we have the true and full presence of Christ that can give us more help, more guidance, more of whatever we need than can be found in any other denomination and we have Mary our Mother to give us graces and pray for us and the saints to pray for us. They were pretty on fire Catholics.

We have the Eucharist.

God bless and I pray for you on your seeking.

I’m glad you’ve met these folks on your journey. I have not. I’ve tried MANY groups at Catholic Churches in two different states over my lifetime and I’ve met some very nice folks. I guess you skipped the part of my post where I TRIED to start snd run small groups in my parish and was told “no thank you”. I’ve done Bible studies, religious education, food pantry, groups to help people who needed to get jobs and done retreats. The people were all really nice and really committed to the work they were doing. Don’t get me wrong, I admire a great many of the folks I’ve met and they’ve helped me on my journey. I would not still be Catholic without the influence of the Priests, Sisters and good Catholic lay people who have been examples of Jesus love to me.

But, the folks I met at the ND church were just different. There was a level of connection to God with them that was all consuming. I can’t really define it, but I’ve never seen the same thing in the Catholic Churches I’ve attended. I’m not saying they don’t exist, I just haven’t met them.

 

[EasterJoy]

…the folks I met at the ND church were just different. There was a level of connection to God with them that was all consuming. I can’t really define it, but I’ve never seen the same thing in the Catholic Churches I’ve attended…

In my limited experience, I wouldn’t call it a level of connection. It was more that they* talked *about having a connection with God all the time. There were reports that implied a sort of a continuous interior conversation with God going on, but some of the conversations related didn’t necessarily indicate that an interior conversion was what was being looked for. Even with the most extreme example, the ones the other call the “name it and claim it” types, the ones who basically believe that belief in God–if you believe really *really *hard!-- is like having a pre-paid subscription the world’s most awesome mail-order catalog, there is a lot of talking about God being everywhere in everything. That’s good as far as it goes, but it can include some serious self-absorption and self-deception, if one is not careful. You’re right though: Catholics are fairly reticent about looking for and related instances of God’s hand in their lives. It’s kind of two ends of the extreme.

It reminds me of a comedian who complained about the women in his church doing “testimonies”. He wasn’t against the concept, but he related how irritated he got when one of them tried to turn her success at returning a pair of shoes–with a receipt and within the store’s rules, a very straight-forward return–into evidence that God had been particularly active in her life that week. He said it was if there was some kind of competition going on between the old ladies at his church as to whom God was paying the most attention to the troubles and struggles of her life.

 

[Seeker1961]

In my limited experience, I wouldn’t call it a level of connection. It was more that they* talked *about having a connection with God all the time. There were reports that implied a sort of a continuous interior conversation with God going on, but some of the conversations related didn’t necessarily indicate that an interior conversion was what was being looked for. Even with the most extreme example, the ones the other call the “name it and claim it” types, the ones who basically believe that belief in God–if you believe really *really *hard!-- is like having a pre-paid subscription the world’s most awesome mail-order catalog, there is a lot of talking about God being everywhere in everything. That’s good as far as it goes, but it can include some serious self-absorption and self-deception, if one is not careful. You’re right though: Catholics are fairly reticent about looking for and related instances of God’s hand in their lives. It’s kind of two ends of the extreme.

It reminds me of a comedian who complained about the women in his church doing “testimonies”. He wasn’t against the concept, but he related how irritated he got when one of them tried to turn her success at returning a pair of shoes–with a receipt and within the store’s rules, a very straight-forward return–into evidence that God had been particularly active in her life that week. He said it was if there was some kind of competition going on between the old ladies at his church as to whom God was paying the most attention to the troubles and struggles of her life.

Well, I’m certainly not going to make a judgement on the level of people’s connection with God. Not my area.

In my experience with them, I’ve never heard any of these folks talk about God like a magic genie who finds them parking places and bargains. What I’ve perceived in them is an attitude of grace-a deeper knowledge that they have received an unmerited blessing and that nothing in life can compare to it. And nothing in life can derail them because of their awareness than they have been saved from an unimaginable future without God. No matter what life hands them, it doesn’t compare with the idea that they will spend eternity with a God that they are convinced loves them beyond measure.

I think sometimes in our zeal to defend our own faith, we feel have to find negatives/deficiencies in the beliefs of others-that’s certainly not exclusive to Catholics-but I think it’s an unfortunate habit no matter who does it.

 

[Diana_Catherine]

Well, I’m certainly not going to make a judgement on the level of people’s connection with God. Not my area.

In my experience with them, I’ve never heard any of these folks talk about God like a magic genie who finds them parking places and bargains. What I’ve perceived in them is an attitude of grace-a deeper knowledge that they have received an unmerited blessing and that nothing in life can compare to it. And nothing in life can derail them because of their awareness than they have been saved from an unimaginable future without God. No matter what life hands them, it doesn’t compare with the idea that they will spend eternity with a God that they are convinced loves them beyond measure.

I think sometimes in our zeal to defend our own faith, we feel have to find negatives/deficiencies in the beliefs of others-that’s certainly not exclusive to Catholics-but I think it’s an unfortunate habit no matter who does it.

Maybe what you are seeing is part of the deception. You are seeing a happiness in people, a gratefulness in people for something that they have been deceived into believing they have and that is that they are saved and so because they feel that they are positively now on their way to heaven without any chance of ever losing that salvation, no matter what they do (and I have heard one person talk of how she could commit murder and still go to heaven) that you are seeing their joy.

Unfortunately it is a joy in something that they have been deceived into believing they have so I will agree that you are seeing something different. When you walk into a ND church they do have a different attitude because they are not out to please God or obey God or feel sorry for their sins because their purpose is to show their gratitude for once saved, always saved. That is why they tell you the louder you sing, the louder you show your love for Christ and your gratitude for being saved.

Catholics don’t believe in once saved, always saved so that could be why you are not seeing that. We know we must be about our Father’s business and that we are not saved by faith alone or once saved, always saved.

 

[Seeker1961]

Maybe what you are seeing is part of the deception. You are seeing a happiness in people, a gratefulness in people for something that they have been deceived into believing they have and that is that they are saved and so because they feel that they are positively now on their way to heaven without any chance of ever losing that salvation, no matter what they do (and I have heard one person talk of how she could commit murder and still go to heaven) that you are seeing their joy.

Unfortunately it is a joy in something that they have been deceived into believing they have so I will agree that you are seeing something different. When you walk into a ND church they do have a different attitude because they are not out to please God or obey God or feel sorry for their sins because their purpose is to show their gratitude for once saved, always saved. That is why they tell you the louder you sing, the louder you show your love for Christ and your gratitude for being saved.

Catholics don’t believe in once saved, always saved so that could be why you are not seeing that. We know we must be about our Father’s business and that we are not saved by faith alone or once saved, always saved.

I really just can’t get my mind around your need to find something “wrong” with these people who I have observed doing NOTHING but love and serve God to the best of their knowledge and ability.

Anyway…I’m done here. I think the OP’s question has been answered quite effectively.

 

[Diana_Catherine]

I really just can’t get my mind around your need to find something “wrong” with these people who I have observed doing NOTHING but love and serve God to the best of their knowledge and ability.

Anyway…I’m done here. I think the OP’s question has been answered quite effectively.

I am not saying there is something wrong with these people. **I was one of these people for 12 years. **** and during that time I couldn’t understand it when people told me either but after seeking our God, I came to realize the Catholic church is the fullness of the faith and while in the ND church I was being deceived with a very weak faith.

They are good people, wonderful people, doing their best to be the kind of Christians they believe God wants them to be. The problem is not with the people, it is with what the people believe and it is not the fullness of truth and when you don’t have the fullness of truth you end up being deceived. As Catholics we should be doing our best to bring them to the fullness of Christ.**

 

[EasterJoy]

Well, I’m certainly not going to make a judgement on the level of people’s connection with God. Not my area.

In my experience with them, I’ve never heard any of these folks talk about God like a magic genie who finds them parking places and bargains. What I’ve perceived in them is an attitude of grace-a deeper knowledge that they have received an unmerited blessing and that nothing in life can compare to it. And nothing in life can derail them because of their awareness than they have been saved from an unimaginable future without God. No matter what life hands them, it doesn’t compare with the idea that they will spend eternity with a God that they are convinced loves them beyond measure.

I think sometimes in our zeal to defend our own faith, we feel have to find negatives/deficiencies in the beliefs of others-that’s certainly not exclusive to Catholics-but I think it’s an unfortunate habit no matter who does it.

No, that is just it…not that we can judge that people at ND have no connection or less connection–save that they say things that are well-believed but misguided and untrue–but that there is often a judgment made that people who wave their hands and shout at a ND church and talk all the time about what God is doing in their lives have a deeper connection to God than people who are not so demonstrative in their liturgies or their public piety. Well, that is fine until they start talking and you realize that their understanding of God is not based on the truth. You can’t judge their souls, but you can judge that they don’t have their facts straight. Now, the Christians at a ND church may not be culpable, they may suffer from invincible ignorance, but if a Catholic abandons what they know to be true in favor of what they take more pleasure in experiencing, that Catholic is in a different situation!

For instance, how many times have you heard a Catholic parish judged as lacking zeal because “its just a bunch of old people”? Those old ladies are spending hours in prayer each day for their children and their grandchildren and the poor souls who have no one to pray for them, but because they recite the Rosary instead of waving their hands around and shouting encouragement during the homily, they are judged to have no connection, to not have their lives entirely centered on God. Nothing could be farther from the truth! So which is wrong–to judge the old ladies as having an inferior piety, or to judge the people at the ND church as having an inferior grasp on the truth?

*Faith is not more real because it is talked about all the time–that is my point! *A person is not more connected with God simply because he or she believes it, and if what they say they believe is not true, then it must be concluded that what they actually believe is not true. If they believe as best as they have the grace to believe, that is one thing, but if they resist what is true because they have a prejudice against joining the Catholic Church, that is something else again. I’m not saying this to judge any particular person, but to be clear about what the principles are by which we have been told we are to be judged. We can each examine ourselves. If I were to start going to a ND church and hang out with the believers there as if that church and what it teachers are no different than the Catholic Church, I would be liable to judgment for that.

A person does not have a place with the Lord simply because they believe they belong, that is all that I am saying. This has to be true, because otherwise how could the Lord have said, "Strive to enter through the narrow gate, for many, I tell you, will attempt to enter but will not be strong enough. After the master of the house has arisen and locked the door, then will you stand outside knocking and saying, ‘Lord, open the door for us.’ He will say to you in reply, ‘I do not know where you are from.’ And you will say, ‘We ate and drank in your company and you taught in our streets.’ Then he will say to you, ‘I do not know where (you) are from. Depart from me, all you evildoers!’ Luke 13:24-27 If we know the narrow way that is the true way, we are bound to try to strive to enter there, and not by another one that seems more attractive.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Around here, anyway, non-denoms vary enormously. People often go from one to another until they find the one they like best, for whatever reason. I have known of two people from my parish who joined the Assemblies of God, but that’s not really non-denom. When it comes to true non-denom, I don’t know a single Catholic who joined one. Around here, the non-denoms have a pretty heavy Fundamentalist overlay, and that might account for someone going to, say, the AG rather than to one of those. AG has a LOT of entertainment, but they also expect heavy giving too, and you’ll be questioned if you don’t. I have been told by some former AG people that they get asked to leave if their giving isn’t sufficient. But I don’t know that for a fact.

 

[ManyBlessings6]

As a former member of the AG church I agree there is alot of entertainment. And the one attended there was a huge amount of pressure to get both time and money. The more you gave of each the more you were included and welcomed. Lots of sermons on how we needed to give, give. Music was great, lots of programs and people were friendly until you said no or that you couldn’t contribute. And when time and time again when people burned out or left in search of something deeper they were basically shunned. There is a huge amount of pressure to avoid contact with anyone who leaves from the leadership.

 

[Chris_Patterson]

THANK YOU!

All I’m trying to say is that we cannot sit idly by and point fingers at those who leave and not take a look at what we might have done or not done to make it easier for them to go.

We can’t just call them “children” or “ignorant” or “lazy” and puff up with pride that we are “mature”, “intelligent” and “disciplined” in comparison.

Amen! And, my experience with Catholics who have left the Chruch is quite the opposite. Most are thougtful, intelligent, and are seeking after Jesus. Many really didn’t understand the kerygma - the basic good news of Jesus - while at the Catholic Church. I’m not saying their priest or Catholic friends never presented it to them. They may have. But I’m saying that often the kerygma, and faith in Jesus, finally “clicked” for them at a Protestant church or event. In these cases, I’m glad they came to faith in Christ, but very, very sad that they left the Catholic Church. Are they mistaken in leaving the Catholic Chruch. Absolutely! But…

… the question “Why are so many Catholics going to nondenominational churches?” is valuable only if we are prepared to look at the reasons, explain where we can, and change when we should.

And I’m not talking about changing doctrine, dogma, form of the mass, etc. What I am saying is that those who leave are not connecting with the basic value and beauty of the sacraments and of magisterial teaching. They are finding it easier/“better” to connect with Jesus through longer Bible teaching, worship through song, small-group dynamics, better local youth program, etc. Instead of saying, “You dummy, why don’t you get the value of the Eucharist?”, we need to find ways to help them discover its beauty and necessity. We need to share the kerygma – to share the Gospel. We need to figure out how to address problems before they leave and reconnect after they leave. (If they come back, a big reason for it will be the loving connections they have maintained with folks remaining in full communion with the Church. If our parishes need to grow in any of these areas, then our job is to help them grow. If our friends need to be challenged, then our job is to help challenge them. I And we’d better be loving them while we do all of this.

I guess that’s the challenge of the New Evangelization.

A good book to read on this subject is "Forming Intentional Disciples" by Sherry Weddell. She calls a spade a spade, and the book does a good job of starting us thinking of solutions. It has been very helpful for our Adult Faith Formation team to read.

 

[EasterJoy]

Amen! And, my experience with Catholics who have left the Chruch is quite the opposite. Most are thougtful, intelligent, and are seeking after Jesus. Many really didn’t understand the kerygma - the basic good news of Jesus - while at the Catholic Church. I’m not saying their priest or Catholic friends never presented it to them. They may have. But I’m saying that often the kerygma, and faith in Jesus, finally “clicked” for them at a Protestant church or event. In these cases, I’m glad they came to faith in Christ, but very, very sad that they left the Catholic Church. Are they mistaken in leaving the Catholic Chruch. Absolutely! But…

… the question “Why are so many Catholics going to nondenominational churches?” is valuable only if we are prepared to look at the reasons, explain where we can, and change when we should.

And I’m not talking about changing doctrine, dogma, form of the mass, etc. What I am saying is that those who leave are not connecting with the basic value and beauty of the sacraments and of magisterial teaching. They are finding it easier/“better” to connect with Jesus through longer Bible teaching, worship through song, small-group dynamics, better local youth program, etc. Instead of saying, “You dummy, why don’t you get the value of the Eucharist?”, we need to find ways to help them discover its beauty and necessity. We need to share the kerygma – to share the Gospel. We need to figure out how to address problems before they leave and reconnect after they leave. (If they come back, a big reason for it will be the loving connections they have maintained with folks remaining in full communion with the Church. If our parishes need to grow in any of these areas, then our job is to help them grow. If our friends need to be challenged, then our job is to help challenge them. I And we’d better be loving them while we do all of this.

I guess that’s the challenge of the New Evangelization.

A good book to read on this subject is "Forming Intentional Disciples" by Sherry Weddell. She calls a spade a spade, and the book does a good job of starting us thinking of solutions. It has been very helpful for our Adult Faith Formation team to read.

Yes. The question is, too, what the ways are for strengthening connections to each other and to the Sacraments, not just for those who are leaving but for those who have some interior desire for more but don’t know how to articulate it or even maybe hope for it. People don’t know how much of the Bible is built into the Mass, not just in the breadth of the Bible that it read over the course of three years, but in the rest of the liturgy.

For instance, you won’t find a church that is more profoundly Bible-based than the Catholic Church, but it isn’t immediately apparent to many people. They don’t have a background in Scriptures to inform them of the greater context of the readings each week.

So while there isn’t much to be done about those who leave for poor reasons–the people who want to be entertained or whatever–that does not mean that some people are not leaving because they are unaware of what they are leaving and don’t know because they didn’t even know the questions that they could be asking. It is one thing to not know, but it is worse to think you do know and to not like the answer because you have a false answer, and so to leave. A lot of people are throwing opinions around about what the Catholic Church is and what it teaches and does, but not enough of them are coming from people within the Church who actually know the correct answers.

This is, after all, why Catholic Answers exists–because there are things people need to know and people needed a place to find the answers.

 

[Chris_Patterson]

Yes. The question is, too, what the ways are for strengthening connections to each other and to the Sacraments, not just for those who are leaving but for those who have some interior desire for more but don’t know how to articulate it or even maybe hope for it.

This is KEY! If we do help them strengthen and deepen their connections to each other, the Church and the Sacraments, they are bound be become more excited about their faith. And excited people are exciting to be around! Their excitement (and our excitement) might just help others stay in the Church or come back to the Church.

On the other hand, if we don’t help those who have “an interior desire for more but don’t know how to articulate it or even maybe hope for it,” their likelihood of leaving greatly increases. Hungry people look to be fed. The Church has the full meal deal. But we may need to help them order.

 

[Diana_Catherine]

Yes. The question is, too, what the ways are for strengthening connections to each other and to the Sacraments, not just for those who are leaving but for those who have some interior desire for more but don’t know how to articulate it or even maybe hope for it. People don’t know how much of the Bible is built into the Mass, not just in the breadth of the Bible that it read over the course of three years, but in the rest of the liturgy.

For instance, you won’t find a church that is more profoundly Bible-based than the Catholic Church, but it isn’t immediately apparent to many people. They don’t have a background in Scriptures to inform them of the greater context of the readings each week.

So while there isn’t much to be done about those who leave for poor reasons–the people who want to be entertained or whatever–that does not mean that some people are not leaving because they are unaware of what they are leaving and don’t know because they didn’t even know the questions that they could be asking. It is one thing to not know, but it is worse to think you do know and to not like the answer because you have a false answer, and so to leave. A lot of people are throwing opinions around about what the Catholic Church is and what it teaches and does, but not enough of them are coming from people within the Church who actually know the correct answers.

This is, after all, why Catholic Answers exists–because there are things people need to know and people needed a place to find the answers.

Exactly. I think there are many reasons people leave. Some don’t know why they are leaving, they might be led astray, some as you say may just don’t like what the church teaches, others may leave just out of curiosity or for the entertainment and the fun, some may have heard a lot of false ideas about the church and believed them.

I think Catholic Answers is great and I have learned a lot, since my return, from coming here and people answering my questions. There are a lot of great Catholics here that will answer peoples questions. People are always searching for answers to their questions and we need to be ready to give an answer in a loving way, even though at times that answer may hurt.

Catholic Answers also has some great radio apologetic shows like Open Line and Right Here and Right Now, if anyone has them in their area.

One of the biggest keys I think is NEVER give up on your family member or friend who left and continue to pray for them, mostly the Mass and Rosary, and show Christ to them in a loving, warm way.