Why are so many Muslims violent?

[Iowa_Mike]

I hope you are kidding…you must be pulling our collective leg or are you just another Muslim extremist that believes the indiscrimiate killing of non-believers is justified?

Catholics believe you must love your enemies, apparently you believe you need to kill them.

God Bless,

Iowa Mike

 

[staffsgt7]

The present day Muslims are misguided. They are like the Jews of the time of Jesus. They are longing for a religious government of their own. Whereas the Jews have improved very much upon their national behaviour, the Muslims have been misled by their religious leaders.

The problem is that the Muslims as a nation were sleeping for many hundred years. They lost touch with the reality and with science. The muslim religious leaders and their kings and princes wasted away their time for the last 4 centuries while much research was done in mathematics, physics and chemistry in the western world.

At that time, the muslims were fast asleep. The result was that they became poor in wealth and knowledge. Ignorant Mullas became their leaders. The Muslims lost everything they had. The reason was their spiritual backwardness. They lost even the useless worldly Caliphate of Turkey. That should have been a lesson to them to become peaceful. But they did not.

Then there was good reason for them to shun all evil and to shun all desire to all wars against the west. There was no reason to fight the west with a pistol. Specially after knowing what happened to Hitler and his totalatarian regime. Hitler had much might. But because he was wrong, he went down badly. It was a lesson for every one who wanted to be a national leader. Peace was the only way and no confrontation.

But Muslim religious leaders, even in the years 1930 and 1960 A.D. gave lessons of Jihad to the poor Muslims. That was all wrong. The affects of that are still continuing.

I may summarise as follows:
There is not to be any religious war now, in these days. Love is the lesson. All Muslims who live in western countries must live very peacefully as humble faithful servants of those lands where they live. They are not to cause any trouble or discomfort in the host countries. It would be a crime to rouse trouble of any kind in those countries.

The politics is spoiling the Muslims everywhere. The violence they are committing is only political. It is not at all religious.Religion does not teach any harm to any other people or any other religion. The Muslims should be the custodians of peace for every religion and places of worship. But what are they doing? They are blowing up schools and temples and churches. That is all ir-religious.

The violence being perpetrated by Muslims is being caused by the violent muslim religious leaders sitting in various muslim countries, Egypt, Iran, Sudan and Pakistan, plus many more. They are every where. Those leaders are inciting the poor muslims that it is the duty of poor muslims to kill the non-believers (Kafirs). But they do not know the meaning of a kaafir.

The leaders have been teaching the poor Muslims that any one who has not recited the kalimah is a kafir. Any one who has not believed in Muhammad is a kafir. that was utterly wrong lesson and there are a few other major mistakes that are being taught to the muslims which are (wrong) very harmful for every one.

I do not know if I have described the situation correctly. In the end, I say that the prophet Muhammad had foretold all these things in his life time that the Muslims will be highly misled in the latter times. Forgive any mistake please…

This post is not very truthful. They have Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Yemen, and a whole host of nations of their own.

The violence they are committing is always religious in their eyes. They are always shouting ‘allahu akbar’ and some video tape themselves and are quoting their koran and talking about (what they consider) holy things. And this post is misleading since Islam IS POLITICAL and RELIGIOUS. It is an all encompassing ideology.

And who is posting for planten because this does not read like planten’s posts that I went back and read a couple of days ago. I am new here so had to get acquainted with some like planten, and bosnian muslim, who replied to a couple of my posts on a different thread.

 

[jakasaki]

That post does not sound like planten. I have read several of his posts and he usually does not write like that.

You know, I’ve said that as well.

There is no big fonts that planten uses and no colors that planten uses. I think it’s someone else using plantens profile.

And the base of the (new) posts is nothing what planten has been posting all along.

Hmmmmmm!!!

 

[jakasaki]

I hope you are kidding…you must be pulling our collective leg or are you just another Muslim extremist that believes the indiscrimiate killing of non-believers is justified?

Catholics believe you must love your enemies, apparently you believe you need to kill them.

God Bless,

Iowa Mike

I believe you misunderstood (name removed by moderator)'s post.

 

[dzheremi]

I really hope this latest post by Planten is actually his. Not because I’m buying his sudden change of heart (I, like Mr. Carnelian, remember his past tirades about the “evil” and “abusive” Catholics), but because maybe this means he’s now taken to heart the requests made by many of us that he not post using 500 different colors and fonts! See, Virginia, there IS a Santa Claus!

 

[cthulhubryan]

Uthman (r.a)

wasalam

What is (r.a)?

 

[jakasaki]

What is (r.a)?

R.A. or (RA) = short for Radiallhu Anhu, in English “May allah be pleased with him”.

This phrase is commonly added after mentioning one of the companions of mohamad.

It’s same with the pbuh = peace be upon him

 

[AJTheMan]

Most followers of Islam are not violent. (It’s just that special .5% that gives the rest a bad reputation)

 

[dzheremi]

I do not like this “0.05%” business. It is not about how many people will follow bad ideologies (after all, much less than 0.5% of the world’s current Muslim population participated in the terrorist attacks in NYC, London, and Madrid combined), but about the ideologies that drive the terrorists themselves. Discussing individuals makes no sense. I know several wonderful Muslims who I would honestly trust with my life. To say they aren’t the problem, but some nebulous 0.5% (or whatever number) is totally misses the point of this thread. We all know that many Muslims are not violent; the question is why (so) many are.

Look at the Qur’an, Sunnah, Hadith, and the classical schools of Islamic jurisprudence. You can bet that Islamic terrorists do. You should know what they believe in before you decide who is behaving badly according to the letter of the shari’a.

 

[AJTheMan]

I do not like this “0.05%” business. It is not about how many people will follow bad ideologies (after all, much less than 0.5% of the world’s current Muslim population participated in the terrorist attacks in NYC, London, and Madrid combined), but about the ideologies that drive the terrorists themselves. Discussing individuals makes no sense. I know several wonderful Muslims who I would honestly trust with my life. To say they aren’t the problem, but some nebulous 0.5% (or whatever number) is totally misses the point of this thread. We all know that many Muslims are not violent; the question is why (so) many are.

Look at the Qur’an, Sunnah, Hadith, and the classical schools of Islamic jurisprudence. You can bet that Islamic terrorists do. You should know what they believe in before you decide who is behaving badly according to the letter of the shari’a.

Oh, you don’t know why some Muslims are angry? Simple: Qutbism

Some time ago, a man named Sayyid Qutb theorized that Islam is constantly under attack – thus making it morally acceptable to offensively attack others. The war verses of Islam are about defensive war and violence…that is to say that if you are attacked, then you have the right to attack back. For many years, Muslims held strict to this ideology that you can only attack if your country or religion was attacked first.

Well, Sayyid Qutb basically theorized that Islam is perpetually under attack from various forces: liberalism, the west, democracy, you name it. The people who subscribed to this ideology then believed that because Islam is perpetually under attack, they have a right to “Fight back.”

In their minds, they are merely defending themselves, their countries, their culture, and their honor. To the rest of the world who doesn’t follow Qutbism, (Which is basically everyone but these guys) it’s clear that they are waging offensive war.

I’ve always seen it as this: Qutbism is to Islam as Jim Jones Theology is to Christianity.

 

[dzheremi]

I prefer to let those who are doing the terrorist acts speak for themselves, rather than assuming that I as a westerner understand them so well that I can say why they do this or that. It’s not like they don’t post all kinds of videos, communiques, etc. telling us why they do what they do. Things have been silent lately at least here in the USA, but for a while there Bin Ladin couldn’t sneeze without ending up on the evening news. I think it is pretty clear why Islamist terrorists do what they do, and while Qubtism is certainly the ideological engine that drives many of these groups, the groups that actually do follow such a program don’t see it as any sort of aberration as you do (neither did Qubt, as I’m sure you know). It is as Islamic as…hmmm…apple pie? Well, whatever Muslims eat instead of apple pie. Dates and kabsa. Have fun trying to convince Jihad Inc. that they are actually the “Jim Jones” of Islam.

 

[AJTheMan]

I prefer to let those who are doing the terrorist acts speak for themselves, rather than assuming that I as a westerner understand them so well that I can say why they do this or that. It’s not like they don’t post all kinds of videos, communiques, etc. telling us why they do what they do. Things have been silent lately at least here in the USA, but for a while there Bin Ladin couldn’t sneeze without it ending up on the evening news. I think it is pretty clear why Islamist terrorists do what they do, and while Qubtism is certainly the ideological engine that drives many of these groups, the groups that actually do follow such a program don’t see it as any sort of aberration as you do (neither did Qubt, as I’m sure you know). It is as Islamic as…hmmm…apple pie? Well, whatever Muslims eat instead of apple pie. Dates and kabsa. Have fun trying to convince Jihad Inc. that they are actually the “Jim Jones” of Islam.

My main point is just that A) Muslims are generally not violent B) Islam is a non violent religion.

I find that in most religions that have a holy book, you can interpret it to say anything you want. (IE: Christianity is a religion that worships rocks! Come on, Catholics, come worship rocks with me!)

 

[staffsgt7]

This might put into perspective the numbers of people killed by the Irish and the number of people killed in Islamic Jihad.

The whole website keeps track of the Jihadist terror attacks that happen worldwide in the name of Islam.

And considering that many support the violence with things such as zakat and now a new thing called Sharia finance there is a larger number who are indeed taking an active part in this violence. So, I don’t always go for the claim that the ones who are the problem are the ones with a healthy awareness of what Islam perpetrates.

The article I provied about zakat goes into where zakat is allocated. Here is another article.

It takes money to fund the Jihadists of Islam.

 

[dzheremi]

My main point is just that A) Muslims are generally not violent B) Islam is a non violent religion.

I find that in most religions that have a holy book, you can interpret it to say anything you want. (IE: Christianity is a religion that worships rocks! Come on, Catholics, come worship rocks with me!)

And my main point is that you’re looking at things in the wrong way to actually effectively answer this question. The question is not “Have Muslims as a world community been subject to stereotyping?” or “What percentage of Muslims do you all think are violent”.

Also, I agree with your point (A) as much as my personal experience allows (I certainly did not grow up as a Christian in Najran in the 12th century, or Somalia in the 21st, etc., but the Muslims I have known have mostly been nice, or at least not mean to my face), but point (B) is seriously lacking in some sort of imperical evidence. The verses calling for violence and maltreatment against non-believers are well-known around these parts, as is the doctrine of abrogation that is unique to Islam and makes picking which verse to “trust” difficult, AND the historical (and contemporary!) implementation of various readings of the Islamic writings against the non-Muslim populations of the East, Islamic Spain, etc. It is your assertion of the way that you wish things to be against all that.

 

[staffsgt7]

My main point is just that A) Muslims are generally not violent B) Islam is a non violent religion.

I find that in most religions that have a holy book, you can interpret it to say anything you want. (IE: Christianity is a religion that worships rocks! Come on, Catholics, come worship rocks with me!)

I don’t know about Christians worshipping rocks, but you are forgetting one big rock in Mecca that the Muslims worship!! It sits in the Kabaa, and there is another rock they run to after they run around the black rock.

Do Christians worship rocks? LOL Does anyone know about this? Maybe the AJTheMan can give an example, or show us this rock that the Christians worship.

 

[AJTheMan]

I don’t know about Christians worshipping rocks, but you are forgetting one big rock in Mecca that the Muslims worship!! It sits in the Kabaa, and there is another rock they run to after they run around the black rock.

Do Christians worship rocks? LOL Does anyone know about this? Maybe the AJTheMan can give an example, or show us this rock that the Christians worship.

Well, when the Jews are in the desert and need water, God gives it to them through a rock!

UNDENIABLE PROOF!

 

[staffsgt7]

Well, when the Jews are in the desert and need water, God gives it to them through a rock!

UNDENIABLE PROOF!

Well, from what I understand that is also in the koran. And that rock is not worshipped by either the Jews, Christians or the Muslims. The only ones who still worship a rock are the Muslims and that rock was the one that the pre-Islamic pagans used to worship.

I almost forgot that the story is not proof of worship, but that their God gave them a miracle.

 

[Reuben_J]

Please take any burning book topics to the proper thread. Or make your own thread about it if you want.

Apparently you did not read the OP (original post) where he mentioned about the Quran (revealed at one time). I meant to correct that because it was revealed not at one time but during a period of many years.

BTW, by all means debate with Muslims but at least get your fact right. It will help in a long way for a ‘scholarly’ (in the word of the OP) discussion.

 

[ZAKI]

I wish that all muslims believed as our friend Planten a few posts back, but as you put it Iowa Mike, there are passages in the Quran that really open up the way for unmitigated violence against unbelievers - another passage from Sura 9 states (and I apologize to any muslims that the Arabic isn’t with this - but I don’t know Arabic and can’t put it in with my keyboard anyway - so this is the translation I have on my ipod which does have the Arabic alongside)

verse 5

“So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them; surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.”

funny this would you care to share the verse before and after this verse?
I hate it when christians share one verse when they need three or four to understand the entire thing and then if a muslim does it to their bible they fly into a rage…how hypocritical.

wasalam

 

[dzheremi]

funny this would you care to share the verse before and after this verse?

I know this isn’t directed to me, but I’ll do it, since you are apparently under the impression that the context in which this verse is found somehow justifies it. I am willing to bet that no non-Muslim will think so. But anyway, let’s see what we have here in verses 9:1 through 9:14 (is this enough for you?), from the Shakir translation available here. I’ve bolded the verse original verse which you think is contextually justified, just so everyone can keep track of it in its original environment.

(This is a declaration of) immunity by Allah and His Messenger towards those of the idolaters with whom you made an agreement.

So go about in the land for four months and know that you cannot weaken Allah and that Allah will bring disgrace to the unbelievers.

And an announcement from Allah and His Messenger to the people on the day of the greater pilgrimage that Allah and His Messenger are free from liability to the idolaters; therefore if you repent, it will be better for you, and if you turn back, then know that you will not weaken Allah; and announce painful punishment to those who disbelieve.

Except those of the idolaters with whom you made an agreement, then they have not failed you in anything and have not backed up any one against you, so fulfill their agreement to the end of their term; surely Allah loves those who are careful (of their duty).

So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them; surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

And if one of the idolaters seek protection from you, grant him protection till he hears the word of Allah, then make him attain his place of safety; this is because they are a people who do not know.

How can there be an agreement for the idolaters with Allah and with His Messenger; except those with whom you made an agreement at the Sacred Mosque? So as long as they are true to you, be true to them; surely Allah loves those who are careful (of their duty).

How (can it be)! while if they prevail against you, they would not pay regard in your case to ties of relationship, nor those of covenant; they please you with their mouths while their hearts do not consent; and most of them are transgressors.

They have taken a small price for the communications of Allah, so they turn away from His way; surely evil is it that they do.

They do not pay regard to ties of relationship nor those of covenant in the case of a believer; and these are they who go beyond the limits.

But if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, they are your brethren in faith; and We make the communications clear for a people who know.

And if they break their oaths after their agreement and (openly) revile your religion, then fight the leaders of unbelief-- surely their oaths are nothing-- so that they may desist.

What! will you not fight a people who broke their oaths and aimed at the expulsion of the Messenger, and they attacked you first; do you fear them? But Allah is most deserving that you should fear Him, if you are believers.

Fight them, Allah will punish them by your hands and bring them to disgrace, and assist you against them and heal the hearts of a believing people.