Why are so many Muslims violent?

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If it were true in all cases I’d have no problem believing it … but as even the definition you provide points out it could be either affirmative belief in the non-existence of god, or a more passive and simple non-belief in god.
It is true in all cases, unless you embrace some sort of dualism by which you can say that you do not believe in the existence of God (affirmation of negatively-presented disbelief) and yet do believe that God exists (refutation of positively-presented disbelief), which would be easily as illogical as you claim religion to be. Accepting definition #1 has nothing to do with how strongly one asserts definition #2. It is a consequence of accepting definition #2. If you do not believe in the existence God, you must by definition therefore believe in the non-existence of God. I think it is split into two different definitions by the search engine in order to stress the existence of “strong” and “weak” forms of atheism, as you have outlined them (I accept that this is a real distinction in the mind of the atheist, by the way), but I am saying that whether one prefers definition #1 or definition #2, one cannot believe in either without simultaenously believing in both.

All I’m essentially saying is that atheism is a belief system. Are you so against religion that you cannot acknowledge any sort of belief system at all? Perhaps for fear that it be labeled a “religion”?
 
It is true in all cases, unless you embrace some sort of dualism by which you can say that you do not believe in the existence of God (affirmation of negatively-presented disbelief) and yet do believe that God exists (refutation of positively-presented disbelief), which would be easily as illogical as you claim religion to be. Accepting definition #1 has nothing to do with how strongly one asserts definition #2. It is a consequence of accepting definition #2. If you do not believe in the existence God, you must by definition therefore believe in the non-existence of God. I think it is split into two different definitions by the search engine in order to stress the existence of “strong” and “weak” forms of atheism, as you have outlined them (I accept that this is a real distinction in the mind of the atheist, by the way), but I am saying that whether one prefers definition #1 or definition #2, one cannot believe in either without simultaenously believing in both.

All I’m essentially saying is that atheism is a belief system. Are you so against religion that you cannot acknowledge any sort of belief system at all? Perhaps for fear that it be labeled a “religion”?
why should we accept your definitions of who we are? Do we demand Christians accept our definitions of them? The worse thing is you guys can’t even see how presumptuous this attitude is … and all this based on mythology that reduces to the absurd.

It’s the 21st century, we have the fossil, skeletal, and cosmological evidence of our evolution. The first law of thermodynamics is energy cannot be created or destroyed. The study of comparative mythology shows the mythological roots of Judeo-Christianity, beginning with the Sumerians on through the Egyptians and Greeks.

Yes, speaking for myself, I affirmatively believe that your religion (and all religion) is untrue. I believe the preponderance of the evidence supports me, while religion grasps at straws, latching onto anything it can spin into supporting its irrational beliefs (like absurd paranormal claims of miracles that are readily debunked, religious preachers who make ridiculous spectacles of themselves and insult our intelligence with their absurdities, and the more dangerous sort whose tactic is appealing to our tribal barbaric instinct).

I think it’s believers are so blinded they ignore logic, and view everything through an apologetic lens.

In the end the semantics regarding the definition of atheism is inconsequential. It’s always the same deal, theists will always wind up appealing to red herrings, false cause fallacies, and ad hominem attacks 🤷

Oh well … I’m used to it!
 
That’s right, it’s such a fallacy to say that belief in the non-existence of God is the flipside of non-belief in God…that’s you can’t affirm one and not affirm the other and still be an atheist (or sane). What a sneaky appeal to semantics! :rolleyes:

I’m sorry, I thought I was arguing with someone sane. I guess if a Christian says that the sky is blue, that must be “presumptuous” too.
 
In some cases atheists are indifferent (the type of people you could know for years & never know what they’re thoughts are on religion), or they could be the type who aren’t ashamed or intimidated by their beliefs.

If it were true in all cases I’d have no problem believing it … but as even the definition you provide points out it could be either affirmative belief in the non-existence of god, or a more passive and simple non-belief in god.

It should be noted that few if any modern western atheists (or even non-western atheists as far as I can tell) endorse violence on a small scale much less tyranny. I also think there’s a marked difference between intellectual atheism based on logical grounds, and “rebellion based” atheism (meaning people who haven’t given much thought to the substantive question, does god exist and is the bible true, but rather simply like living a certain lifestyle unimpeded by religion).

I was formerly a devout (you could even say something close to fundamental) Christian, who left religion for purely intellectual reasons. I can’t even say I recall any bad experiences with religion (overall my experiences with faith were good). However, in consideration of historical patterns, scientific facts, and numerous other factors … it has become my view that religion is simply untrue 🤷
Start a different thread, please. Several people have asked you to do that now, me included.
 
Yeah, sorry everybody. I should not have continued on either and am done with this thread and Mr. Doodle. Apologies for derailing things.
 
Start a different thread, please. Several people have asked you to do that now, me included.
I don’t recall you asking me to do anything (nevertheless I did get back on topic … anyway, are you really a SSG???.. now I know why our armed forces has become so screwed up :eek:).
 
OK you guys can get back to bashing Muslims now (are there even any Muslims on this thing???).

I’m trying to imagine of why a bunch of Catholics would bash Muslims (albeit they are easy enough to bash) … when there’s no Muslims listening? Is it like a sport or practice or something like that??? :confused:

You people are too funny
 
Israel - Palestine - Hudna video.
Hudna was first used in 628, when the Prophet Mohammed entered into a peace-pact with the elders of Quraysh. This pact was supposed to last for 9 years, 9 months and 9 days.
Less than two years later, when Mohammeds troops had gathered enough strength, they violated their oath and attacked the Quraysh, defeating their enemy and conquering the city of Mecca.
What does cease-fire really mean in the Middle East ?
And what do the Palestinians want? A three-month Islamic Hudna !
will give the Palestinians time to:
  • Run more of their famous summer camps to recruit and train the next generation of terrorists
  • Smuggle in better weapons and build more bombs
  • Carefully prepare for their next wave of human-bombs
    And while the Palestinians pretend that this Hudna is really a truce, Israel will be expected to stop all its efforts to prevent terrorism…
I have tried to say why there is so much violence in Islam because of the Koran, Sharia laws which are based on the Koran, and that Jihad is mostly taught as violence against the unbeliever. The mindset of Israel’s enemies just cannot make peace because of these things. They emulate their Prophet.

Hudna is one of these things their Prophet used and that is what is used today.
 
If the Muslims converted people by sword, it was wrong. They should not have done it. Such bad things happened in India when some Muslims from the North west (afghanistan etc) attacked India.

In the Quran, there is nothing to kill any innocent person. But it is written to fight the enemies of peace and religion. It is written to fight against the war mongers (Combatants, Kafirs)

If Muslims did something against their religion of peace, then we see that the christians also did many things (horrible) against their religious principles. You admit that your people (Christians) were violent, against the teaching of Jesus. That was bad. So the Muslims also did the bad things. They are not angels.

It is better not to accuse any one about the past. It is better to get along in a good way for a better future.

Thanks for correcting me about Hirohito.
If idolatory is prohibitted in ISLAM, why do moslems pray facing the Kabbah?
  1. Muslims claim that a proof the quran was from God, is that contains scientifically accurate information about embryology before man discovered it for himself.
However all the information in the quran regarding embryology is copied from 3 sources 1) a greek doctor called Galen, 2) a jewish doctor called samuel yehudi 3) the greek father of medicine Hypocrates.

In light of the fact that all the information contained in the quran was already in print, will you retract the argument on embryology.

4)Muslims claim that many different translations of the english bible will rendera single text whit different words and variations.

since the many english translations of the quran also render a single different text whit different words… does that proof that the quran is corrupted?

5)Muslims reject the doctrine of original sin of adam but theach the immaculate conception of mary. The reason the doctrime of the inmaculate conception was invented to remove original sin.

Since you reject the doctrine of inherited SIn and believe all men are born without sin. Why dom muslims teach the doctrine of immaculate conception of Mary.
  1. Given the fact that Isaac Watt, said in his book. “ISLAM AND CHRISTIANITY” TODAY: “By the standards of modern historiography. the crucifixion of Jesus is one ofthe most certain events in past history”.
What historical evidence do you give that jesus was not crucified.

7)If you believe that the bible is so corrupted. why do you take deut18: 18 and john 16:13 as uncorrupted prophecies of Muhammad in the sixth century AD… and why the quran teach us to follow the gospels?
  1. Muslims claim that Muhammad always worshipped Allah in a 100% correct way without any need for any restoral.
Then why did muhammad pray towards jerusalem for the first 5 years of his prophethood. and later redirected his prays towards mecca? and did Jesus, moses, isaac, jacob, mary, peter or noah pray 5 times towards jerusalem or mecca?
  1. muslim teach that muhammad was sinless. however the quran specifically limits the number of wifes a muslim man can marry to 4. yet muhammad married at least 12 women. Is muhammad above the very law he gave in quran and isnt the definition of sin violating the law of god?
  2. Islam is not the fastest growing religion, is the dominant religion of the 3rd world where birth rates are the highest, in these same countries muslims are killed if they convert to christianity.
 

4)Muslims claim that many different translations of the english bible will rendera single text whit different words and variations.
since the many english translations of the quran also render a single different text whit different words… does that proof that the quran is corrupted?
Muslims have an answer for this: They say the only true Qur’an is in Arabic. According to this islamic-world.net/invitation.php?ArtID=338 Islamic website, learning Arabic is not necessary when converting to Islam, but, “Learning Arabic will be an advantage as there is a big difference between reading the translations of the Qur’an and the original text in Arabic.”

This poses some interesting questions. The website also says, “All that is required [to convert to Islam] is to submit to Allah and memorize a few prayers in the Qur’an.” But, to submit to Allah, it is necessary to know his will, and where do you find it but in the Qur’an? A Muslim told me that an Islamic scholar would explain it to me. OK. In what language will he explain it? He would have to use Arabic because, according to the same Muslim, “Only Arabic can convey the true meanings and translations of the meaning have lost total understanding of the verses.” Without knowing Arabic, I wouldn’t understand what the scholar was saying or what to believe; but according to them, I would be a “believer” nevertheless. How can you believe dogma you don’t understand? In short, you can’t get there without having been there first.
5)Muslims reject the doctrine of original sin of adam but theach the immaculate conception of mary. The reason the doctrime of the inmaculate conception was invented to remove original sin.
Since you reject the doctrine of inherited SIn and believe all men are born without sin. Why dom muslims teach the doctrine of immaculate conception of Mary.?] …
This is an amazing observation!!! I wonder why no one asked the question before.
 
If idolatory is prohibitted in ISLAM, why do moslems pray facing the Kabbah?
For the sense of direction and unity. You do not have any center of worship. Muslims do not worship Ka’abah. You see hundreds of thousands of Mosques in the world. They needed some direction.
  1. Muslims claim that a proof the quran was from God, is that contains scientifically accurate information about embryology before man discovered it for himself.
However all the information in the quran regarding embryology is copied from 3 sources 1) a greek doctor called Galen, 2) a jewish doctor called samuel yehudi 3) the greek father of medicine Hypocrates.
In light of the fact that all the information contained in the quran was already in print, will you retract the argument on embryology.
Do you think that Muhammad got down to reading the books of plato and Galen…?? Like Jesus took lessons in Jewish theology from his masters in the temples (synagogues).
4)Muslims claim that many different translations of the english bible will rendera single text whit different words and variations.
since the many english translations of the quran also render a single different text whit different words… does that proof that the quran is corrupted?
frantony, we have the original book with us. You do not have any original book. You only have the translations. That is your problem.
5)Muslims reject the doctrine of original sin of adam but theach the immaculate conception of mary. The reason the doctrime of the inmaculate conception was invented to remove original sin.
Since you reject the doctrine of inherited SIn and believe all men are born without sin. Why dom muslims teach the doctrine of immaculate conception of Mary
.
Okay, do you want that I should deny the birth of Jesus without the agency of Joseph the carpentar?? Do you want that?? It will help you?? Quran ( and Hadith) do not specifically say that the birth was immaculate. It is only a derived meaning.
  1. Given the fact that Isaac Watt, said in his book. “ISLAM AND CHRISTIANITY” TODAY: “By the standards of modern historiography. the crucifixion of Jesus is one ofthe most certain events in past history”.
I do not know that person and I do not believe him. Jesus did not tell me that he came back from the dead.
What historical evidence do you give that jesus was not crucified.
Please ask "What historical evidence is available that Jesus did not die on the cross?? That is the real problem. He was put up on the cross.But brought down very quickly within a few hours before dying. His legs were not broken. He was not buried. He was looked after in a room like tomb and treated by Nicodemus with herbs. He recovered and he was seen walking about after two days.

It is all written in your bibleNT and no historical evidence is necessary.
7)If you believe that the bible is so corrupted. why do you take deut18: 18 and john 16:13 as uncorrupted prophecies of Muhammad in the sixth century AD… and why the quran teach us to follow the gospels?
Bible was a truely revealed book, revealed to Jesus (The Jew) by the God Almighty, the God of the Jews. It was a sacred book.He received messages and acted upon them. People have over the long time made changes in the bibleNT. But they could not corrupt all the book. Some parts remained in tact. We can recognise those parts of the bible.

You should not be upset if we consider some parts of bible as accurate.
 
frantony part 2:
  1. Muslims claim that Muhammad always worshipped Allah in a 100% correct way without any need for any restoral.
Then why did muhammad pray towards jerusalem for the first 5 years of his prophethood. and later redirected his prays towards mecca? and did Jesus, moses, isaac, jacob, mary, peter or noah pray 5 times towards jerusalem or mecca?
The spiritual leadership of the world was in the hands of the Jews. Muhammad followed their principle until he was told to face to Makkah. There was no harm in facing Jerusalem.
  1. muslim teach that muhammad was sinless. however the quran specifically limits the number of wifes a muslim man can marry to 4. yet muhammad married at least 12 women. Is muhammad above the very law he gave in quran and isnt the definition of sin violating the law of god?
There is special rule for the prophet. He was allowed. But I wonder why your prophet (Jesus) did not get married. Was that good, as a human being??. They say he was 100% man. How could he be 100% man if he did not get married?? Was marraige a sin for him??
  1. Islam is not the fastest growing religion, is the dominant religion of the 3rd world where birth rates are the highest, in these same countries muslims are killed if they convert to christianity.
Perhaps. I do not have any data. Since you asked for it, I have replied to you. I say again “You asked for it.”
 
4)Muslims claim that many different translations of the english bible will rendera single text whit different words and variations.

since the many english translations of the quran also render a single different text whit different words… does that proof that the quran is corrupted?
Muslims claim that that original Arabic is needed to fully understand the true meaning of the Koran. This position renders two things quite cleary.
  1. If a thought or precept cannot be translated into another language, then that thought or precept is not truly understood even in the original Arabic
  2. If it can be truly understood in Arabic then Arabic must be a very inexact language and in such a state, no exact truth can be conveyed.
  1. Muslims claim that Muhammad always worshipped Allah in a 100% correct way without any need for any restoral.
Then why did muhammad pray towards jerusalem for the first 5 years of his prophethood. and later redirected his prays towards mecca? and did Jesus, moses, isaac, jacob, mary, peter or noah pray 5 times towards jerusalem or mecca?
When Mahomet started out, it was intention to be a Jewish prophet. It was only after he was rejected by the Jews that he started the practice of bowing towards Mecca during prayers. It was also at this time that he changed from a would-be prophet into the blood-thirsty murder/raper/pillager that is his major effect on the world at that time. It was during this time that further demonic visitations/visions resulting from madness occur and he begins the verses dedicated to murder and destruction that make up most of the Koran today.
 

frantony, we have the original book with us.
This is only your belief; it is not a fact. Otherwise, where is this original book kept? Why do you believe it is original? What’s your proof?
You do not have any original book. You only have the translations. That is your problem.
This is a problem only for Muslims. Why? Because to accept a translated Bible would undercut your argument that you have the original Qur’an.
…Jesus did not tell me that he came back from the dead…
We can play that game too:

Mohammed didn’t tell you about his night journey, either; but you believe it, don’t you? Mohammed didn’t tell you about his visions in the cave, but you believe it, don’t you? Mohammed didn’t tell you about his ascension to heaven, but you believe it, don’t you? etc.
Please ask "What historical evidence is available that Jesus did not die on the cross?? That is the real problem. He was put up on the cross.But brought down very quickly within a few hours before dying. His legs were not broken. He was not buried. He was looked after in a room like tomb and treated by Nicodemus with herbs. He recovered and he was seen walking about after two days.
It is all written in your bibleNT and no historical evidence is necessary.
Since the Bible is corrupt, how can you say this?
P.S. You forgot the part about him and his mother being buried somewhere in India.
Bible was a truely revealed book, revealed to Jesus (The Jew) by the God Almighty, the God of the Jews. It was a sacred book.He received messages and acted upon them. People have over the long time made changes in the bibleNT. But they could not corrupt all the book. Some parts remained in tact. We can recognise those parts of the bible.
And just what parts might those be?
 
For the sense of direction and unity. You do not have any center of worship. Muslims do not worship Ka’abah. You see hundreds of thousands of Mosques in the world. They needed some direction.

Any idol in any religion - Hinduism, Christianity etc. serves the same purpose- it serves as a point of concentration of thought while praying. No Hindu or Christian believes that a picture, or a photograph, or statue is GOD.
But a Hindu or Christian can pray facing any direction because their God is omni-present - meaning everywhere, and not sitting in the middle of a desert in Saudi Arabia.
Moreover, which direction will a muslim bow while praying on a location on earth diametrically opposite Mecca? Even Allah will not know that.
But I shall tell you the answer. The muslims can lie on their back, and pray facing the moon, because Allah is none other than the pagan moon god Arabs worshipped before Mohamet was born.


Do you think that Muhammad got down to reading the books of plato and Galen…?? Like Jesus took lessons in Jewish theology from his masters in the temples (synagogues).

**He probably had not taken any lessons, because he would not have understood them anyway. But if you look at the various things mentioned in the koran, you can easily see that they are inaccurate copies of teachings plagiarised from Jewish and Zoarastrian holy books, which Mohamet may have picked up when he travelled to Israel and Persia for selling camels and visiting compromising widows and under-aged children **

frantony, we have the original book with us. You do not have any original book. You only have the translations. That is your problem.

**The original books of Hindus and Christians were written over thousands of years by learned people of those ages. They are time perfected, and those who followed their teachings became constructive, and peace loving people and nations, and are the reason why man still exists on earth today. But for such books, man would have killed and suicide bombed each other to extinction a long time ago.
God at different ages had sent leaders, learned men, and Prophets to teach men lessons appropriate for the conditions at that time, just as a father would give different instructions to his son at different ages. The same father who instructed his two year old son not to touch an electric wall-socket may later ask him to plug an electric kettle, and boil some water, when he is older.
God is still in the process of making a perfect MAN. He started with mathematical rules which led to rules of physics, which led to rules of chemistry, bio-chemistry, biology, zoology, ten commandments, in that order, and finally the rule of LOVE- taught by JESUS who was GOD Himself.
This order and these stages can be seen in any authentic holy texts of any civilizations. Even the Hindu scripture, if you analyse, you can see the same things, may be in a different language, but having similar sounding names and meanings of titles. All these scriptures from various civilisations converge on one point, where God Himself comes at the opportune time, to seed the messy and orderless manure on earth with His own WORD from which would grow the in-corruptible Perfect Man.
After reaching this stage comes a false prophet, who wants to destroy the order set up to that time, and wants to bring back dis-harmony - with child marriages, polygamy, incest, chopping of heads, and limbs etc - (of olden times when men were un-civilised )- and newer techniques for destruction like suicide bombings, hijacking of planes, etc.- with promises of pleasure from 70 whores in heaven if men killed others and committed suicides. You Muslims do indeed have the original book of this false prophet…
Christians have Bibles which are translated to every language on earth- which is read, researched and understood by people more than any other book in the world.
That is indeed a problem Christians have to face, unlike most of the Muslims who can read their koran and even can recite verses from it without knowing the meaning of even one word.
The coming of Such a false Prophet is necessary for the fulfilment of God’s plan , and is prophesied in all the genuine Holy books of the world. Only then will there be destruction and chaos and suicide bombings in the end times as described in the genuine holy books of all genuine religions. But the genuine followers of genuine religions have nothing to fear, because God would have reaped his fruits by then. Only the weeds and garbage will be burnt. **

.
Okay, do you want that I should deny the birth of Jesus without the agency of Joseph the carpentar?? Do you want that?? It will help you?? Quran ( and Hadith) do not specifically say that the birth was immaculate. It is only a derived meaning.
**
It is not your opinion or mine that matters. What we are after should be TRUTH, and not winning an argument. **
 
There is special rule for the prophet. He was allowed. But I wonder why your prophet (Jesus) did not get married. Was that good, as a human being??. They say he was 100% man. How could he be 100% man if he did not get married?? Was marraige a sin for him??
A man who does not get married is not 100% man? :confused:

One of my male cousins has never been married. I daresay he is still 100% man.

One of my brothers is a Benedictine monk, so, needless to say, he has never been married. I daresay he is 100% man, too.

Jesus is 100% man, but also 100% God. And not all men are required to get married.
 
I do not know that person and I do not believe him. Jesus did not tell me that he came back from the dead.
**And How well do you know Mohammed? and what did he tell you?
And what quality or accomplishment in Mohammed makes you believe in him?
His prowess with aged widows, or his antics with under aged girls? Or is it his cheating, lying, and killing of other people to meet his selfish ends? **

Please ask "What historical evidence is available that Jesus did not die on the cross?? That is the real problem. He was put up on the cross.But brought down very quickly within a few hours before dying. His legs were not broken - why?because the Romans saw that his blood had already coagulated and plasma had already separated- which is a 100% proof that he had died. He was not buried. He was looked after in a room like tomb and treated by Nicodemus with herbs. He recovered and he was seen walking about after two days.

It is all written in your bibleNT and no historical evidence is necessary.
**
Many things you have said is true- like what the serpent (Satan) told Eve in the Garden of Eden.
But like Satan, you have inter laced some lies along with a lot of truth, and also missed out some relevant Truths. This mixture is more dangerous than Pure Lies
For your benefit, I have coloured the untruths in your message green, and the missing Truths in blue.
I know it is not required to show you what is missing, and what are un-truths; because you know them better than me - because you know it is from the NT. You are deliberately doing interlacing of Lies with Truth to mislead the readers.
It is also foretold in the Bible, that the false prophet of the end times would reject Jesus as the Son of God and His death on the cross. Your response is a clear indication of the origin of your argument. **

Bible was a truely revealed book, revealed to Jesus (The Jew) by the God Almighty, the God of the Jews. It was a sacred book.He received messages and acted upon them. People have over the long time made changes in the bibleNT. But they could not corrupt all the book. Some parts remained in tact. We can recognise those parts of the bible.

You should not be upset if we consider some parts of bible as accurate.

Jesus is the Bible (the WORD of GOD which became Flesh on earth)- the spritual DNA for the perfect Man (ADAM) that God is creating. Anybody that conforms to that DNA will have ETERNAL LIFE. They will be healthy and fruitful. Those who grow by a corrupted DNA will be like a cancer that grows uncontrolled. It will destroy everything if it is not chopped off. Like a carpenter burns his waste wood and how a shell of an egg is disposed off after the chicken is hatched, everything else (other than the completed perfect MAN )on earth will be destroyed.
 
frantony part 2:

The spiritual leadership of the world was in the hands of the Jews. Muhammad followed their principle until he was told to face to Makkah. There was no harm in facing Jerusalem.

So then why is it harmful to face Jerusalem or Rome or New Delhi now?

There is special rule for the prophet. He was allowed.

So Mohmet (PBUH) could go through red lights, have sex with under-aged children, marry 12 times, and kill people of other faiths and steal their wives. Some prophet of PEACE he must have been!!

But I wonder why your prophet (Jesus) did not get married. Was that good, as a human being??. They say he was 100% man. How could he be 100% man if he did not get married?? Was marraige a sin for him??

**Why only marriage? What about eating carrots, or wearing a tie?

Are people who don’t eat carrots 100% men?

Are people who don’t wear ties 100% men?

Are all muslims taught this kind of logic in their madarasas?**

Perhaps. I do not have any data. Since you asked for it, I have replied to you. I say again “You asked for it.”
 
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