Why are so many Muslims violent?

[frantony]

The present day violence of the Muslims can be traced back to the wrong notion of Jihad with weapons. Jihad had been taught seriously by a few so-called Muslim scholars. They forgot that Jihad was meant to purify the soul, i.e. to suppress the desires of the lower self and be a better man.

The Jihad was to be done with love not with weapons. Those so-called scholars gained cheap popularity. While they themselves did never took part in any of their own invented Jihad and they never sent their own children into the battlefield, they misguided the poor muslims and incited the poor muslims to go ahead and fight the non-Muslims. That was all wrong.

Take the present condition of any Muslim country. Are they Muslims?. Definitely NO. They have no morale. Nobody can speak out the truth in any Muslim country. The courts do not deliver justice. There is no real democratic setup. I feel that Islam (Peace) is now in the western countries. There is liberty in those countries.

There is no use any Muslim blaming the UK or USA as non-Muslim country. Every good principle is to be found in India, Israel, South Afrika and Europe and USA. Why the so-called Muslim countries are blind to the good things being done in nearby countries?? There is no respect and consultation (Mushawarat) system in Muslim countries. There is no inter-sect tolerance amongst muslim sects.

Muslims cannot be violent, should never be violent. If any one is violent, killing innocent people indiscriminately, he/she cannot be any Muslim.

Some so-called scholars took over the charge of the poor Muslims in India/ Pakistan / Egypt / Sudan and misled them into foolish ideas. The present condition in Muslim countries is like the life in Makkah in the time of Muhammad. There are Muslims having mosques and they are praying in very large numbers. But it is all useless, void of any love and beauty. The sooner the Muslims will get rid of their false ideas, the better it will be for them.

Otherwise they are doomed, due to their own bad deeds. They have to forget about their version of Islam and learn some human rights, human vaues. They should forget about other religions. They have to forget all teachings of hatred. They have to come to the principle of “Love for All Hatred for none.” There is no harm if they suffer. They should face the difficulty.

The best they can do is to flush out the black sheep from their ranks who are inciting the Muslims for Jihad against other nations / religions.

When Japan lost the war ( 1945, WWII), the Japanese King Hirohito addressed the Japanese nation " We have lost the war. Now bear the inevitable…" So the Japanese people obeyed their king and progressed.

**
Why is it that
62% of Koran is devoted to how Islam interacts with the Kafir (or, the unbeliever)
98% of the Sira is devoted to the struggle against kafirs.
70% is jihad; 28% is argument and insults.
20% of Bhukari Hadith is devoted to jihad.
Allah and Mohammed hate the kafir. In fact, the existence of kafirs is considered an affront to Allah and Mohammed. In the doctrine of Islam, the believer is required to “fight in Allah’s cause” (jihad) to remove this affront. Jihad is the only guaranteed method by which a believer can go to Islamic heaven and skip judgment. Jihad exists because unbelievers exist. Fundamentals of Sharia Law (Islamic Law)
1.Believers who leave Islam (apostates) are considered among the worst sinners, and can be given the death penalty.
2.Kafirs do not have legal rights under Sharia law.
3.Husbands may beat their wives legally (this follows the Suna of Mohammed).
4.Criticism of any aspect of Islam is considered a high crime of treason, even for those who are not believers, and can result in a death sentence.
5.The practice of homosexuality can result in a death sentence.
6.Adultery by a married person can result in death by stoning.
7. Punishment for petty crimes (i.e., theft) can result in mutilation.
8.No religion other than Islam is allowed.
9.No legal system other than Sharia is allowed.
10.Women must be covered (burka, niqab)
11.Rape victims must produce 4 male (believer) witnesses or be seen as an adulterer.
12.Non-Muslims cannot testify against a Muslim.
13.Jihad is an obligation for all believers.

We should only be surprised if there is no violence in a community where the above facts are true.
In the present day world when it is really a feat to maintain peace and harmony in a family with one husband and one wife, just imagine how much peace there would be, with the addition of one more wife - leave alone four!!
The above are exact opposites to what Christianity teaches- which is
Love your enemies
Love your neighbour as you love yourself,
Hate the sin, but love the sinner
and what Christ practiced during his life on earth.

.**

 

[planten]

A man who does not get married is not 100% man?

One of my male cousins has never been married. I daresay he is still 100% man.

One of my brothers is a Benedictine monk, so, needless to say, he has never been married. I daresay he is 100% man, too.

Jesus is 100% man, but also 100% God. And not all men are required to get married.

Maria, when you are measuring manhood then please leave some margin for the marraige too. I would not believe a woman to be 100% woman if she does not marry and bear children. What is the necessaity of granting 100% marks to a person who does not marry?? Please leave some margin of error in the matter of Jesus for not getting married.

Also there is no need to called him 100% man. What need there is?? Why do you want him to be 100% man.Is it written in the bibleNT Gospels that Jesus was 100% man?? I hope not. Is it written in gospels (the biography of Jesus) that Jesus was 100 % God.

You are mixing up or tying up two opposing things by saying that Jesus was 100% man and 100% God. Well, it is your good wishes. There is no licence or limit on the good wishes. There seems to be a heavy contradiction in calling any one 100% man and at the same time 100% God. Now I know all Catholics will get together to blame me what I have written. But will they think over what they are saying??

There is another Catholic frantony who is flying all over the place with contradictory and accusative statements.

 

[planten]

From .frantony:

Any idol in any religion - Hinduism, Christianity etc. serves the same purpose- it serves as a point of concentration of thought while praying. No Hindu or Christian believes that a picture, or a photograph, or statue is GOD.
But a Hindu or Christian can pray facing any direction because their God is omni-present - meaning everywhere, and not sitting in the middle of a desert in Saudi Arabia.
Moreover, which direction will a muslim bow while praying on a location on earth diametrically opposite Mecca? Even Allah will not know that

.
The Jews too had a sense of direction. Keeping idols or images in church is a violation of the Mosaic commandments.

But I shall tell you the answer. The muslims can lie on their back, and pray facing the moon, because Allah is none other than the pagan moon god Arabs worshipped before Mohamet was born

.

You are wrong. You should look after your moon god and Sun God. Look after your greek pagan feeding into your religion and note your Sun day and Moon day please. Muslims do not worship any but One God (Allah). You do not have any serious teaching about One God in your bibleNT.

**He probably had not taken any lessons, because he would not have understood them anyway. But if you look at the various things mentioned in the koran, you can easily see that they are inaccurate copies of teachings plagiarised from Jewish and Zoarastrian holy books, which Mohamet may have picked up when he travelled to Israel and Persia for selling camels and visiting compromising widows and under-aged children **

frantony, we have the original book with us. You do not have any original book. You only have the translations. That is your problem. Nothing is taken from your corrupt books. Muhammad did not attend any lessons in theology like did Jesus son of Mary.

The original books of Hindus and Christians were written over thousands of years by learned people of those ages. They are time perfected, and those who followed their teachings became constructive, and peace loving people and nations, and are the reason why man still exists on earth today. But for such books, man would have killed and suicide bombed each other to extinction a long time ago

.

I admit Hinduism is a complete and very old religion, much older than Catholicism. But you cannot deny that Hinduism is a pagan religion. So if you go for that then youare also supporting pagan beliefs due to your own pagan feelings.

God at different ages had sent leaders, learned men, and Prophets to teach men lessons appropriate for the conditions at that time, just as a father would give different instructions to his son at different ages. The same father who instructed his two year old son not to touch an electric wall-socket may later ask him to plug an electric kettle, and boil some water, when he is older

.

Do you really believe that God sent messengers to other (all) nations?? I hope not. That is not a teaching of Christianity. You must be off balance catholic.

God is still in the process of making a perfect MAN. He started with mathematical rules which led to rules of physics, which led to rules of chemistry, bio-chemistry, biology, zoology, ten commandments, in that order, and finally the rule of LOVE- taught by JESUS who was GOD Himself

.

You can have Jesus as your God. I run far away from such bad sinful ideas. Pardon.

This order and these stages can be seen in any authentic holy texts of any civilizations. Even the Hindu scripture, if you analyse, you can see the same things, may be in a different language, but having similar sounding names and meanings of titles. All these scriptures from various civilisations converge on one point, where God Himself comes at the opportune time, to seed the messy and orderless manure on earth with His own WORD from which would grow the in-corruptible Perfect Man

.

That is not true at all. Your perfect man could be a perfect God for you. Not for many other people (Jews and Muslims) of the world. Please try to teach your theology to the Jews. They will teach you some lesson.

** It is not your opinion or mine that matters. What we are after should be TRUTH,** and not winning an argument.

With all your false statements above, you could not be any where near the truth. You are far away from the Truth.

 

[planten]

I do not know that person and I do not believe him. Jesus did not tell me that he came back from the dead.
**And How well do you know Mohammed? and what did he tell you?
And what quality or accomplishment in Mohammed makes you believe in him?
His prowess with aged widows, or his antics with under aged girls? Or is it his cheating, lying, and killing of other people to meet his selfish ends? **

Please ask "What historical evidence is available that Jesus did not die on the cross?? That is the real problem. He was put up on the cross.But brought down very quickly within a few hours before dying. His legs were not broken - why?because the Romans saw that his blood had already coagulated and plasma had already separated- which is a 100% proof that he had died. He was not buried. He was looked after in a room like tomb and treated by Nicodemus with herbs. He recovered and he was seen walking about after two days.

It is all written in your bibleNT and no historical evidence is necessary.
**
Many things you have said is true- like what the serpent (Satan) told Eve in the Garden of Eden.
But like Satan, you have inter laced some lies along with a lot of truth, and also missed out some relevant Truths. This mixture is more dangerous than Pure Lies
For your benefit, I have coloured the untruths in your message green**, and the missing Truths in blue.
I know it is not required to show you what is missing, and what are un-truths; because you know them better than me - because you know it is from the NT. You are deliberately doing interlacing of Lies with Truth to mislead the readers.
It is also foretold in the Bible, that the false prophet of the end times would reject Jesus as the Son of God and His death on the cross. Your response is a clear indication of the origin of your argument.

Bible was a truely revealed book, revealed to Jesus (The Jew) by the God Almighty, the God of the Jews. It was a sacred book.He received messages and acted upon them. People have over the long time made changes in the bibleNT. But they could not corrupt all the book. Some parts remained in tact. We can recognise those parts of the bible.

You should not be upset if we consider some parts of bible as accurate.

Jesus is the Bible (the WORD of GOD which became Flesh on earth)- the spritual DNA for the perfect Man (ADAM) that God is creating. Anybody that conforms to that DNA will have ETERNAL LIFE. They will be healthy and fruitful. Those who grow by a corrupted DNA will be like a cancer that grows uncontrolled. It will destroy everything if it is not chopped off. Like a carpenter burns his waste wood and how a shell of an egg is disposed off after the chicken is hatched, everything else (other than the completed perfect MAN )on earth will be destroyed.

frantony, your extra ordinary long posts in bold RED do not impress any one. There is no substance in your post.

 

[dzheremi]

Before I get to Planten’s ideas, can I ask Franthony to please post in regular (not bright red and large) font? It is much, much easier on the eyes, and will be much appreciated by me and certainly many others. We can still process your arguments in the forum’s standard font.

Maria, when you are measuring manhood then please leave some margin for the marraige too. I would not believe a woman to be 100% woman if she does not marry and bear children. What is the necessaity of granting 100% marks to a person who does not marry??

We might just as well ask you why you apparently feel that someone needs to marry and bare children to be a “100%” person. A person is “100%” a person no matter if they marry or not, because person-hood is a intrinsic quality of the human being, not just the married, unmarried, widowed, etc. person.

Please leave some margin of error in the matter of Jesus for not getting married.

What does this mean? There is no error in our Lord not being married, just as there is no error in anything else He did. He was not incarnated in order to be among us and date or marry. You are being ridiculous.

Also there is no need to called him 100% man. What need there is?? Why do you want him to be 100% man.

It’s not that we “want” Him to be; it’s that He is. This is a basic fact about the identity of Jesus that has been affirmed since well before the canonization of the Bible, and is affirmed by ALL churches, both Chalcedonian (who hold that He is 100% God and 100% man in two natures via the hypostatic union) and non-Chalcedonian (who hold that He is 100% God and 100% man without subscribing to the “separate natures” idea). You will not find any orthodox Christian sect that does not subscribe to this, only heretics and blasphemers.

Is it written in the bibleNT Gospels that Jesus was 100% man?? I hope not. Is it written in gospels (the biography of Jesus) that Jesus was 100 % God.

There is plenty about Jesus being God with us (the literal meaning of the Hebrew “Emmanuel”) in the Gospels, but one of my favorite passages on the nature of Jesus Christ is found in Philippians 2, which I will share with you now so that you can know why arguments about percents and formula are missing the point. It is written:

Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus:
Who, being in very nature God,
did not consider equality with God something to be grasped,
but made himself nothing,
taking the very nature of a servant,
being made in human likeness.
And being found in appearance as a man,
he humbled himself
and became obedient to death—
even death on a cross!
Therefore God exalted him to the highest place
and gave him the name that is above every name,
that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.

You are mixing up or tying up two opposing things by saying that Jesus was 100% man and 100% God. Well, it is your good wishes. There is no licence or limit on the good wishes. There seems to be a heavy contradiction in calling any one 100% man and at the same time 100% God. Now I know all Catholics will get together to blame me what I have written. But will they think over what they are saying??

How much thinking is enough? 2000 years worth? Because we’ve got that. What do you have, but your own sense that it is “two opposing things” to say Jesus Christ is both God and man? That is what makes Jesus Christ Jesus Christ - not the Father. Jesus Christ is the incarnation of God among us.

 

[planten]

I do not know that person and I do not believe him. Jesus did not tell me that he came back from the dead.
**And How well do you know Mohammed? and what did he tell you?
And what quality or accomplishment in Mohammed makes you believe in him?
His prowess with aged widows, or his antics with under aged girls? Or is it his cheating, lying, and killing of other people to meet his selfish ends? **

You are simply abusive person bent on mischief… It means you are upset and defeated.

Please ask "What historical evidence is available that Jesus did not die on the cross?? That is the real problem. He was put up on the cross.But brought down very quickly within a few hours before dying. His legs were not broken - why?because the Romans saw that his blood had already coagulated and plasma had already separated- which is a 100% proof that he had died **
That is not true. When asoldier pierced the body of Jesus with a spear, it is written in the bibel that blood and water gushed out. That means Jesus was alive.**

. He was not buried. He was looked after in a room like tomb and treated by Nicodemus with herbs. He recovered and he was seen walking about after two days.

It is all written in your bibleNT and no historical evidence is necessary.
…

Bible was a truely revealed book, revealed to Jesus (The Jew) by the God Almighty, the God of the Jews. It was a sacred book.He received messages and acted upon them. People have over the long time made changes in the bibleNT. But they could not corrupt all the book. Some parts remained in tact. We can recognise those parts of the bible.

You should not be upset if we consider some parts of bible as accurate.

Jesus is the Bible (the WORD of GOD which became Flesh on earth)- the spritual DNA for the perfect Man (ADAM) that God is creating. Anybody that conforms to that DNA will have ETERNAL LIFE. They will be healthy and fruitful. Those who grow by a corrupted DNA will be like a cancer that grows uncontrolled. It will destroy everything if it is not chopped off. Like a carpenter burns his waste wood and how a shell of an egg is disposed off after the chicken is hatched, everything else (other than the completed perfect MAN )on earth will be destroyed.

Word cannot become flesh and then the flesh turn into a God. It is totally unbelievable story that you have got from some where. Think rationally. I had to reply to you with curt denials because you falsely, directly attacked our prophet Muhammad.

 

[planten]

Before I get to Planten’s ideas, can I ask Franthony to please post in regular (not bright red and large) font? It is much, much easier on the eyes, and will be much appreciated by me and certainly many others. We can still process your arguments in the forum’s standard font.

Thanks for your timely advice to frantony.

We might just as well ask you why you apparently feel that someone needs to marry and bare children to be a “100%” person. A person is “100%” a person no matter if they marry or not, because person-hood is a intrinsic quality of the human being, not just the married, unmarried, widowed, etc. person.

I may ask youthe same question, why a perfect man would not like and wish to be married. It is not a question of 100% person. It is the question of a 100% man. Please understand.

What does this mean? There is no error in our Lord not being married, just as there is no error in anything else He did. He was not incarnated in order to be among us and date or marry. You are being ridiculous.

There may not be any error in your Lord not being married. I do not mind if you do not want your Lord (100% man) to be married. It is your wishful thinking. Do not please push it on others. What is ridiculous in my statement. I feel that your God or no God, he should have married and set a good example for you. But you dislike that.

It’s not that we “want” Him to be; it’s that He is. This is a basic fact about the identity of Jesus that has been affirmed since well before the canonization of the Bible, and is affirmed by ALL churches, both Chalcedonian (who hold that He is 100% God and 100% man in two natures via the hypostatic union) and non-Chalcedonian (who hold that He is 100% God and 100% man without subscribing to the “separate natures” idea). You will not find any orthodox Christian sect that does not subscribe to this, only heretics and blasphemers.

I do not blame you. But I would like to know why your elders did what they did about Jesus being unmarried and about being God. What made them do that? Was there such a message in the bibleNT?? I do not see any such thing there.

There is plenty about Jesus being God with us (the literal meaning of the Hebrew “Emmanuel”) in the Gospels, but one of my favorite passages on the nature of Jesus Christ is found in Philippians 2

sorry, dzhereme, I do not like Paul or his teachings. So your rest of post was useless for me…
…

How much thinking is enough? 2000 years worth? Because we’ve got that. What do you have, but your own sense that it is “two opposing things” to say Jesus Christ is both God and man? That is what makes Jesus Christ Jesus Christ - not the Father. Jesus Christ is the incarnation of God among us.

I know your religion is older than our Islam. Also, Old is Gold. You win. It would even be better to become a Jew because they are much older than you. Also because Jesus himself was a Jew. He never broke away from the Jews. he had never come to start a new religion.

Whether he was a perfect 100% man or not, I believe he was a perfect 100% Jew. What do you say? I am all for Jesus and what he came for, the blessed one of God…

 

[Maria65]

Before I get to Planten’s ideas, can I ask Franthony to please post in regular (not bright red and large) font? It is much, much easier on the eyes, and will be much appreciated by me and certainly many others. We can still process your arguments in the forum’s standard font.

We might just as well ask you why you apparently feel that someone needs to marry and bare children to be a “100%” person. A person is “100%” a person no matter if they marry or not, because person-hood is a intrinsic quality of the human being, not just the married, unmarried, widowed, etc. person.

What does this mean? There is no error in our Lord not being married, just as there is no error in anything else He did. He was not incarnated in order to be among us and date or marry. You are being ridiculous.

It’s not that we “want” Him to be; it’s that He is. This is a basic fact about the identity of Jesus that has been affirmed since well before the canonization of the Bible, and is affirmed by ALL churches, both Chalcedonian (who hold that He is 100% God and 100% man in two natures via the hypostatic union) and non-Chalcedonian (who hold that He is 100% God and 100% man without subscribing to the “separate natures” idea). You will not find any orthodox Christian sect that does not subscribe to this, only heretics and blasphemers.

There is plenty about Jesus being God with us (the literal meaning of the Hebrew “Emmanuel”) in the Gospels, but one of my favorite passages on the nature of Jesus Christ is found in Philippians 2, which I will share with you now so that you can know why arguments about percents and formula are missing the point. It is written:

Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus:
Who, being in very nature God,
did not consider equality with God something to be grasped,
but made himself nothing,
taking the very nature of a servant,
being made in human likeness.
And being found in appearance as a man,
he humbled himself
and became obedient to death—
even death on a cross!
Therefore God exalted him to the highest place
and gave him the name that is above every name,
that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.

How much thinking is enough? 2000 years worth? Because we’ve got that. What do you have, but your own sense that it is “two opposing things” to say Jesus Christ is both God and man? That is what makes Jesus Christ Jesus Christ - not the Father. Jesus Christ is the incarnation of God among us.

Great post! Thanks for responding to planten’s lunacies while I was at lunch.

 

[Maria65]

What is ridiculous in my statement.

Planten, most of your statements are ridiculous.

 

[sedonaman]

… What is ridiculous in my statement.?]…

You confuse your beliefs with facts. To paraphrase, you have a right to your own beliefs but not to your own facts.

 

[KathleenGee]

(I felt like I was reading a debate up in the sky for the Fourth of July…the responses were like fireworks!

Not being funny, but the red and blue with the white background, the colorful imagery and language…

Now back to dreary black and white…)

 

[frantony]

There is question of violence. It is being suggested that it is innate in the teachings of Quran. That is not true. The acts of violence are being attributed to the prophet Muhammad. That is not good.

Every christian should think over the teachings and preachings of Jesus and those of Muhammad. How they started and how they were opposed. While there was a very quick showdown in th case of Jesus, such was not in the case of Muhammad. Muhammad and his followers suffered too much in the first 13 (long) years. They had to flee to a nearby chrstian country (habshah) for refuge from the violence of the polytheists of Makkah.

The polytheists of Makkah even went to that christian country to bring the muslim refugees back from there. But the christian king of Habshah refused to give up the poor Muslims.
Muslims were beaten and slaughtered in the streets of Makkah like sheeps. Muhammad saw all that and did not permit revenge. he only told his followers to be patient.

Then there was a boycott of all Muslims and they were locked up in a vast area (field) for three years. No food or water was allowed to enter there. The very young children wept and cried for food or water. The polytheists used to listen to the wailing and crying of the poor Muslims and they used to laugh at the Muslims condition. Please keep all these things in mind before deciding anything about violence.

Would you not count those bad deeds as violent?
Then the infidels planned to kill Muhammad by attacking him at night, all tribes striking together. He had to flee for his life with one companion (Abu Bakr) to Madinah. The people of Madinah welcomed him and made him the leader. Muhammad immediately struck a deal (a written agreement) with the people of Madinah including the Jews and the christians, that they would live and die together. If any one attacked Madinah, they would fight the attackers together to defend the city of Madinah.

Muhammad was expecting attack on the city. Muhammad had never killed any one in Makkah. He had never committed any crime there. Why the Makkans intended to attack Madinah? Were they not violent? I am sure, they were criminals.
The makkans attacked Madinah with a 1000 strong force of armed men within one year. The prophet had to come out of the city to face the enemy at the field of Badr. He had only 313 unarmed men with him. There was a very tough battle and the many Makkans were either killed or taken prisnors. This was the first combat.

And so it goes. Please note that there is no case of violence in Quran or on the part of Muhammad. It is only against the enemies of god and the prophets. It is a similar case as it happened against Jesus. He was caught too quickly and put up for death on the cross. that was violence. That was cruel act. The man of God suffered much.

We Muslims will not discuss anything seriously with christians because we disgaree at many points of the basic history. I will come back to explain the reason why the present day Muslims are violent. It is nothing to do with Islam or Quran. It is something to do with their ignorance of the true and peaceful religion i.e. Islam.

Mohammed is the False Prophet in the Bible who has to come towards the end of the world. He has come and have acted exactly as God had planned, and his followers will be the reason for the end of the world. So they naturally have to be violent.

 

[tomarin]

Mohammed is the False Prophet in the Bible who has to come towards the end of the world. He has come and have acted exactly as God had planned, and his followers will be the reason for the end of the world. So they naturally have to be violent.

So according to your framework we’ve been in the End Times for 16 centuries (since Mohammad lived and died in the 7th century)? How much longer will this last, do you think?