Why are so many parents afraid to parent?

[kmuestwin]

On another thread, one poster said it was impossible to go to mass alone with two children (an infant and a two year old) because the two year old runs off during mass.

I am a twin and my father is in the military. My mom took us everywhere and neither me nor my brother ever ran off more than once or twice. The reason for this was because in our household, running off (or any misbehavior) resulted in a punishment.

Spankings when we were younger, time outs and loss of privileges as we got older.

It seems that now parents take a more laissez-faire approach when it comes to parenting.

I sat behind two children and their grandparents at mass the other day. During the mass, the grandparents and the children sat in this arangement:

:slapfight:

The children fought and pushed and argued the entire mass.

It was crazy to me! Grandparents should have cracked the code by now. They should be the pros in the parenting arena and their seating arrangement should have been more like this:

:blackeye::hey_bud::byzsoc::blackeye:

So apart from my little joke and crazy assumptions here’s my questions.

Are parents afraid to parent?

If so, what’s the difference between then and now?

 

[Nec5]

Oh my stars and garters. You just initiated the spanking/discipline argument. Prepare for a onslaught of posters arguing that spanking is abuse and unnecessary while others defend the traditional approach.

And in the end, the thread will be locked and not a single person will have had a change of mind.

 

[VeritasLuxMea]

Oh my stars and garters. You just initiated the spanking/discipline argument. Prepare for a onslaught of posters arguing that spanking is abuse and unnecessary while others defend the traditional approach.

And in the end, the thread will be locked and not a single person will have had a change of mind.

Well, I guess if some can argue that abortion isn’t murder, then why can’t others argue that spanking isn’t hitting?

If we all want to go ahead and embrace moral relativism then these threads will keep going nowhere and getting locked as you describe.

 

[kmuestwin]

Spanking isn’t the point.

The point is that discipline is missing. If a stern talking to is your method of discipline, enforce it with gusto. I just don’t understand why when a kid decides to sit on top of a table or drum on the walls with pencils, the first response is to say, “He’s so spirited,” and ignore the problem.

I don’t want an arguement about how to punish or how to discipline. I want to hear what people think about what I see as a change in the parent/child dynamic.

Also, I think this may be the first thread that I initiated so please let it begin and end amicably.

 

[Joan_M]

Spanking isn’t the point. I agree. But I also think that spanking is most definitely necessary and while it could become abuse, properly used it is not. Further, I do not care what others think of my opinion in this - I just sigh interiorly and bet that their children are probably brats.

The point is that discipline is missing. If a stern talking to is your method of discipline, enforce it with gusto. I just don’t understand why when a kid decides to sit on top of a table or drum on the walls with pencils, the first response is to say, “He’s so spirited,” and ignore the problem.

Exactly! Many, many parents are totally afraid of disciplining their children. I just don’t understand it. I think that they are more interested in being their child’s friend - something that never entered my mind!! There was a period when child psychologists seemed to think that disciplining a child would break their spirit, or something. Of course, I am convinced that is why we now are faced with so much crime. No discipline at home = I can do whatever I like.

I don’t want an arguement about how to punish or how to discipline. I want to hear what people think about what I see as a change in the parent/child dynamic.

Change in dynamic - as you rightly observe - parents afraid of disciplining whether because they want to be their child’s friend, or because they just don’t have a clue how to deal with a child (years ago they would have learned because either they had many siblings or they lived closely with cousins, etc.) or because they want to do things differently from how their parents did it. Whatever the reason, it seems like the kids are in charge.

Also, I think this may be the first thread that I initiated so please let it begin and end amicably.

 

[Aggies08]

I teach, and many of the parents are always asking questions about discipline- which is good!

My thought is that there are fewer larger families, basically, and so there are fewer chances for parents growing up/having adult friends to talk to about how to teach their children proper behavior. If your mom was a single child, or you were, then there isn’t much experience there to know from.

There is also a big attitude with some people “kids will be kids,” sort of thing, or “let them learn to work it out!” without really understanding how you facilitate that- they just let them bully.

I have a feeling, though, children are not really that much worse. It’s just so noticeable when you do see one who’s ill-behaved.

 

[Fireflylight]

The whole “my parents did it, why’s it so hard?” is quite frankly ******** and you talking out of your…well its not your mouth.

I promise you that regardless of what you remember or even what your parent remembers there were masses in which you were downright terrible…and made your parent feel like they could never enjoy mass again.

The grandparents most likely were introducing their grandkids to Mass…not an easy task.

As far as the other poster. Infants take alot of energy out of a woman…they take nutrients! They also have different needs than a 2yo who requires constant attention and education. Two infants or two todders would be easier.

 

[1ke]

Yes, there is a lack of discpline in this generation of parents and an unwillingness to BE a parent. They want to be “friends” with their kids and be the “cool” parent. It is really harming the children.

 

[Jersey_Jeepster]

Yes, there is a lack of discpline in this generation of parents and an unwillingness to BE a parent. They want to be “friends” with their kids and be the “cool” parent. It is really harming the children.

I agree with these statements and would add that some parents are all too willing to let teachers and sports coaches and scout masters, etc., raise their kids. Some parents are too concerned with their own life and know nothing about sacrifice, you know, giving up their own private time and interests and making their children the focal point of each day.

Now teachers are shaping kids’ morality in their classrooms, instead of teaching children how to read and write and do arithmatic. Teach the children how to think, not what to think. Only the parents can stop the indoctrination of their children, and they can stop it by, as you say, BEING parents.

 

[gardenswithkids]

In order to correct consistently and appropriately, parents themselves need to have self-discipline, support and encouragement. You were raised in a military environment and the adults surrounding your parents personally embraced a disciplined lifestyle and were willing to make serious personal sacrifices for a greater good. By contrast, the civilian world does not have that same level of discipline or willingness to make sacrifices. Even if they’d like to, it’s more difficult to develop that spirit of self-giving without training and encouragment. Many people are ill-prepared for the demands of parenting. We arrive at parenting like fresh recruits at boot camp, out of shape and unfamiliar with what lies ahead.

Who trains parents in self-discipline and self-sacrifice? In general, today we have a society of people afraid of self-sacrifice and self-discipline because those things are hard. So who will show us? Usually we first learn parenting techniques from our own parents, and then we learn even more on-the-job once we have children. Parenting itself teaches a lot about self-sacrifice and self-discipline. We learn a great deal from our children.

You mentioned in your op that neither you nor your brother ever ran off more than once. As you look at other parents, consider than perhaps your parents’ had easier children to raise. Maybe God didn’t find it neccesary to give your parents difficult children in order for them to learn about self sacrifice. Not every child steps into line and never repeats the same mistake again immediately after one correction. I have eight children, and I can personally attest that some children require significantly more correction and parental energy than others.

I understand what you are saying about how some parents seem afraid to parent, but I also understand sleep-deprived, exhausted parents who don’t have a lot of support or training because society in general doesn’t embrace self-discipline and self-sacrifice. If you see parents struggling with young children, please give them an encouraging glance instead of a judgemental glare. They have enlisted in parenting during the Culture War, and it would be a great pity if we suffered casualties from friendly fire.

(* Since the word “discipline” itself is often either misunderstood or understood *only *as punishment, below is the definition for anyone interested.)

dis·ci·pline

/ˈdɪsəplɪn/ Show Spelled [dis-uh-plin] Show IPA noun, verb, dis·ci·plined, dis·ci·plin·ing.
noun 1. training to act in accordance with rules; drill: military discipline.

1. activity, exercise, or a regimen that develops or improves a skill; training: A daily stint at the typewriter is excellent discipline for a writer.
2. punishment inflicted by way of correction and training.
3. the rigor or training effect of experience, adversity, etc.: the harsh discipline of poverty.
4. behavior in accord with rules of conduct; behavior and order maintained by training and control: good discipline in an army. …

verb (used with object)

1. to train by instruction and exercise; drill.
2. to bring to a state of order and obedience by training and control.
3. to punish or penalize in order to train and control; correct; chastise.

 

[Ninian29]

Parents cant win nowadays,if you spank your children in public you will be arrested and have the social workers on to you.If you dont you are accused of not discipline your children.It`s people attitude that are different and the political correct Gov that interfere and constantly undermine parents.

I remember struggling with a very adventurous two and a half year old that hated to sit for more than 2 mins and a colicy one year old girl that cried on and off during mass.I remember been told to keep" that child quite"and been lectured on disciplining.Actually I did however spanking a child during a homily and the consecration is hardly appropriate behavior is it?

I think people can be too judgmental and quick to correct other parents when they fall short of standards as a parent.We should actually offer to HELP those less fortunate than ourselves and struggling,sometimes alone.Not everyone was born into Catholic families,not everyone was shown how to behave as a child themselves sadly they are the most abandoned by society.
Many a time I left Mass humiliated and demoralised by the people in it who were meant to be Christians and my fellow Catholics.But I found out they were the worst behaved than my children because when they could have helped they choose to moan about" badly behaved children"at church and how they just cant behave as" good as us mentality".Thank goodness God does welcome little children and he loves EVERYONE regardless who they are in society,crying or otherwise!
Thankfully, I have passed that stage and my older ones have grown up,and still go to Mass daily.The adventurous boy is a daily communicant my girl also attend Mass daily: along with my other children.(It does pay to persevere) Nowadays I will always make a point in sitting beside the worst behaved child,just so I can help the struggling parent.:grouphug:

 

[dconklin]

My guess is Twin is not a parent.

My kids have always been perfect angels at Mass. They have never been spanked.

Kids are not robots that can be programmed properly. We are all imperfect. If were were perfect, we could attend Mass and ignore any distractions.

 

[mini_me640]

I am far more bothered by the adults playing with their smart phones and/or chatting with the person they are with at Mass than with a bored toddler getting a little rambunctious.

 

[kmuestwin]

The whole “my parents did it, why’s it so hard?” is quite frankly ******** and you talking out of your…well its not your mouth.

I promise you that regardless of what you remember or even what your parent remembers there were masses in which you were downright terrible…and made your parent feel like they could never enjoy mass again.

The grandparents most likely were introducing their grandkids to Mass…not an easy task.

As far as the other poster. Infants take alot of energy out of a woman…they take nutrients! They also have different needs than a 2yo who requires constant attention and education. Two infants or two todders would be easier.

I obviously hit a nerve with you.

Regardless of what you think of the scenarios I described, do you think that the way people parent now is different from before?

Honestly, I’m completely ignorant to the art of raising kids. It’s a hard job and I am trying to understand it more and not belittle what others do.

Please help me learn and don’t pick a fight. Instructing the ignorant is a spiritual work of mercy.

 

[kmuestwin]

My guess is Twin is not a parent.

My kids have always been perfect angels at Mass. They have never been spanked.

Kids are not robots that can be programmed properly. We are all imperfect. If were were perfect, we could attend Mass and ignore any distractions.

I’m not really trying to debate the difference in spanking/ nonspanking households.

I want to hear if you think that today’s parent/child relationship is different than it was in the past.

I’m not a parent and I don’t plan on ever being one but families are neat and the one I mentioned got me thinking.

 

[kmuestwin]

I am far more bothered by the adults playing with their smart phones and/or chatting with the person they are with at Mass than with a bored toddler getting a little rambunctious.

That is far more egregious because an adult should know better.

My real point was to ask if you think that the dynamic between parents and children has changed.

 

[maryjk]

My guess is Twin is not a parent.

My kids have always been perfect angels at Mass. They have never been spanked.

Kids are not robots that can be programmed properly. We are all imperfect. If were were perfect, we could attend Mass and ignore any distractions.

Actually I think it is Joan that isn’t a parent, or at least I hope she isn’t. Instead of quoting Twin, Joan typed within the quote. This is what Joan wrote.

I agree. But I also think that spanking is most definitely necessary and while it could become abuse, properly used it is not. Further, I do not care what others think of my opinion in this - I just sigh interiorly and bet that their children are probably brats.

What is funny is that I have never spanked my child and I consistantly get complements about his behavior. Whereas I have a number of friends that have children that are brats, they have all been spanked.

Thinking that spanking is necessary IS abuse. And like Joan, I don’t care what others think about my opinion about that.

 

[jilly4ski]

Parents cant win nowadays,if you spank your children in public you will be arrested and have the social workers on to you.If you dont you are accused of not discipline your children.It`s people attitude that are different and the political correct Gov that interfere and constantly undermine parents.

I agree with this. Even with less harsh punishments, a parent might be afraid to use them in public. If my toddler runs out into the parking lot, because I have the baby and the bags, and I run out after him and roughly grab his arm and forcefully haul him back onto the sidewalk, while telling him how naughty that is, is some self proclaimed anti-child abuse advocate going to call the cops or CPS on me?

So far I have had one little angel in Mass, never made a peep and generally sat relatively still (He is now 3 and only now is starting to get a antsy). And one absolute terror in Mass, temper tantrums, screaming, head butting, whining when he doesn’t get what he wants, lots of noise and lots of movement (He is now 17 months and only in the last month or so have I been able to spend the entire time in Mass, and even that is a struggle). Kids are different.

 

[kmuestwin]

I don’t think my first thread is going well.



I feel like everyone jumped on the spank / nospank part of my ramblings and didn’t really focus on what I see as a change in the parent/ child dynamic.

Parents used to be for the first 5 years of a child’s life, their only source of information. Now, with the advent of technology, kids can learn and do learn much of their knowledge from media sources. I feel like this weakens the parent’s role as caretaker and teacher and it weakens the child’s role as pupil.

These are all assumptions. Please teach me and don’t get mad. I just want to learn more about something that I know very little about.

 

[Cristiano]

Parents are so afraid to parent because it is scary to parent. No ifs our buts about it. Parents failed in the past and they fail now. I do not think that things are worst now, and if children are taught to misbehave it is not just because parents are failing at that but simply because society allows or even supports misbehaving.
What amazes me is when the parents that have misbehaving children spend time complaining about or scolding other parents’ children. Role modeling is gone down the drain when fathers do not know to behave like men but they act like little boys and mothers compete with their daughters for being the coolest pretty girl.
I struggle with my duty as a father, often I am too strict and sometime I am too lax, I am not 100% consistent and that scares me. I do question myself and I realize that in certain occasions I do not know better and I cannot figure out the possible consequences of my decisions as a parent.
I do not think that the roles have changed has much as you think, it is just that what is tolerated today as a society is much different from twenty years ago and even more from 50 years ago. Cultural fashions come and go, do not be surprised to see a reversal of some parenting behaviors ahead of us.