Why are some of you Catholic, Roman Catholc, Obl. OSB, etc

[SteveVH]

The Orthodox are not in union with Rome. We are talking about Eastern Rite Catholic Churches.

And I was not talking solely about those in union with Rome. I was responding initially to a question concerning apostolic succession and wanted to make it clear that we acknkowledge the Orthodox as having valid apostolic succession. I continued this line of thought by including them in the question of the CCC.

 

[1ke]

I’m really not sure what you mean by “liking” Orthodox more than Protestants.

 

[NovusAugustus]

On matters of theology, all “Catholics” are the same–be they Eastern or Western.

Orthodox–be they Russian, Greek, or whatever, are different in that they do not recognize the supremacy of the Pope. They also differ slightly in some matters of doctrine, a product of many long years of separation. But none of the differences are so large as to be unreconcilable.

All other “Christians” have wide theological gulfs separating them with the church and also do not acknoledge the pope as supreme representative of Christians on earth. They forsook the Apostolic succession when they broke with the church. This includes the many “almost Catholic” churches like Old Catholics, High Church Anglicans, etc.

 

[BVMFatima]

Catholic is the Universal Church
Roman Catholics are those that use the Latin Rite.
There are many Eastern Rite Churches that are in Communion with Rome. Waaaaay back in Biblical times, travel and communication were difficult. Different churches were founded and developed individual Rites apart from each other. Much like language. There are many similarities between French, Italian, and Spanish because they all evolved from Latin. It’s pretty much the same thing with Rites. They started the same, and evolved a little, but the roots are the same. Latin Rite is by far the largest, but it doesn’t mean anything more than observing that English is spoken by more people than Dutch is.

The initials after the names (besides the obvious like PhD) indicate members of religious orders. Sometimes the initials don’t seem to correspond with the name. Typically that is because the acronym is from the Latin names. FSSP is the acronym for Priestly Fraternity of Saint Peter. Huh? Well, in Latin it is Fraternitas Sacerdotalis Sancti Petri. :newidea:

I hope this answered things. You might also try the search box here or the encyclopedia tab at the very top of the page.

 

[WoundedIcon]

Really, the simplest way to put it is that there’s one Catholic Church with 23 subdivisions (one of which is the Roman Church). We’re all one religion, with the same beliefs, just having different cultures, rituals, emphases, and different ways of going about becoming holy. It’s kind of inevitable when you have a religion that spans so many different cultures, lands, and languages. Before our era – with all its attendant ease of communication – different ways of doing things were bound to develop. But we all count as the same religious group due to our shared beliefs. Now, there are some things we debate about, but nothing to the degree where we can say we cease to be one religion.

 

[1ke]

i was trying to avoid using the term particular Church, but yes I agree.

 

[Christian_Unity]

On matters of theology, all “Catholics” are the same–be they Eastern or Western.

Orthodox–be they Russian, Greek, or whatever, are different in that they do not recognize the supremacy of the Pope. They also differ slightly in some matters of doctrine, a product of many long years of separation. But none of the differences are so large as to be unreconcilable.

All other “Christians” have wide theological gulfs separating them with the church and also do not acknoledge the pope as supreme representative of Christians on earth. They forsook the Apostolic succession when they broke with the church. This includes the many “almost Catholic” churches like Old Catholics, High Church Anglicans, etc.

I thought the Great Schism occurred way before the Protestant Reformation. There are a lot more sects, division, and denominations that I realized in Christendom. I still think there is only one body of Christ consisting of those whom God united to Christ which is not about the particular church that you attend. For me, being in union with Christ is quite different than being in communion with the Roman Catholic Church. Thanks for the education and I will continue to read your postings on this thread… but the more you guys posts, the more confused I get. From my theology, individuals are either united to Adam or they are united to Christ. Everybody needs faith in Christ.

 

[Digitonomy]

I don’t believe the OP is talking about individual people who may be dissenters. He means do Roman Catholics, Byzantine Catholics, etc, all adhere to the CCC.

The answer is “yes”, the various Rites share the common Faith of the universal Church.

We may all share the same faith, but its explanation in the Catechism of the Catholic Church is clearly from a Western perspective. I think I’ve heard that at least one of the Eastern churches has its own catechism.
(name removed by moderator):

Orthodox Catholic is the name more properly used for the various Eastern Orthodox Churches…

I’m glad you explained this; I was about to mention it.

It should also be pointed out that one can be orthodox (literally meaning “straight faith” or “straight opinion”) without being Orthodox. An orthodox Catholic may be distinguished from a heterodox Catholic by (to give an extreme example) whether they believe the Virgin Mary may be an equal member of the Godhead with the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. On less weighty matters, someone may be said to adhere to current Republican or Democratic orthodoxy on a political issue - in other words, they follow a strict party line, and do not compromise by incorporating ideas from the other side.

 

[KathleenGee]

You have to recall the words of Christ, that there are many mansions in His kingdom…but they all are meant to bear the same fruit of Scripture, consecrated ecclesial authority, creed, and unity.

All authentic charisms within the universal church bear only one fruit: Jesus Christ.

Also, another mindbender…is the different religious orders, and their particular charisms…where in their Biblical studies and reflections, they bring the themes and particular missions of their orders to interpret Scripture in light of their associations. I particularly like the Carmelite interpretive Scripture…

The feminists are also allowed to have their private interpretations in a feminist interpretation of Scripture…but as with religious orders, they are considered personal interpretation and not – orthodoxy.

Orthodoxy of belief is found in the universal catechism.

Belief in practice, attitude along side orthodoxy is the present Church Council, Vatican II that interprets the life of the Church for today and how to live out our faith today in context of today’s times.

But all the religious orders and congregations, as well as Roman Catholic rites of different cultures…such as the Lebanonese Marionites or the Catholic Ethiopians vs the Orthodox Ethiopians, there are 22 rites I believe…stand corrected here…that all are in communion with the Holy Father and their bishops.

They all are to adhere to Vatican II, the universal Catechism, norms and particular rubrics of their region for the liturgy, canon law, and in light of Sacred Scripture.

So what you see here is yet – another scenario of what context are you talking about.

The amazing thing in all these different peoples, races, tongues…we all have the same shepherd, same belief, same spirit and tone of belief centered in the Word of God and the Eucharist.

I can go to another rite, another religious congregation, go to Mass there, hear Scripture and experience the Eucharist, recognize the place of Peter in Benedict…I am entering another small ecclesial tradition, but within I am experiencing the living tradition of the Church that is universal.

We know our Shepherd and He knows us.

 

[Christian_Unity]

You have to recall the words of Christ, that there are many mansions in His kingdom…but they all are meant to bear the same fruit of Scripture, consecrated ecclesial authority, creed, and unity.

All authentic charisms within the universal church bear only one fruit: Jesus Christ.

Also, another mindbender…is the different religious orders, and their particular charisms…where in their Biblical studies and reflections, they bring the themes and particular missions of their orders to interpret Scripture in light of their associations. I particularly like the Carmelite interpretive Scripture…

But all the religious orders and congregations, as well as Roman Catholic rites of different cultures…such as the Lebanonese Marionites or the Catholic Ethiopians vs the Orthodox Ethiopians, there are 22 rites I believe…stand corrected here…that all are in communion with the Holy Father and their bishops.

They all are to adhere to Vatican II, the universal Catechism, norms and particular rubrics of their region for the liturgy, canon law, and in light of Sacred Scripture.

So what you see here is yet – another scenario of what context are you talking about.

The amazing thing in all these different peoples, races, tongues…we all have the same shepherd, same belief, same spirit and tone of belief centered in the Word of God and the Eucharist.

All Christians have Christ in common.

 

[KathleenGee]

True.

But not all have one shepherd personified in the Holy Father, consecrated bishops and priests, and the disciplines of a two thousand year old history of documented continuity of faith, discernment of spirits, public witness of the saints, and teachings that give us the full deposit of faith in Christ which results in the fruit of communion.

Remember, the Lord could have prepared His own way to us, He could have set up another format upon which to build His Church.

Yet there was St. John the Baptist and the Apostles and their successors.
How we wish and pray for a realized communion with all Christians.

 

[KathleenGee]

Also note my edit to my former post…that Biblical studies are allowed in the universal Church that have personal interpretation and are not considered orthodox.

And note that sacraments are concrete signs.

Without seeing you at Mass, Christian I mean to say, in context of the sacramental reality, where are you? your concept of Christianity is not realized in the concrete, it is merely symbolic or good intentional thinking.

 

[WoundedIcon]

I guess I should chime in and mention the Sacraments. While all validly baptized people are one in Christ, there’s a pretty big practical difference between a Baptist and a Confirmed, daily communicant Catholic. Ultimately one of the problems of our time is treating theology like it’s impractical. The Church and the list of dogmas you believe in changes your practical spirituality and can make the difference between sainthood and a little hut in Jesus’ back yard — so to speak.

In other words, we’re not just talking about having your name on a bureaucratic membership roster. We’re talking about who’s right about reality.

 

[batman1973]

You guys are just like us Protestants.

I’d have to agree, however, for me, I see Catholics (Romans especially) boast that they are the “One True Church” and that others are heretical, or apostate, and that there is no salvation outside of the Catholic Church. To me, this sound’s waaaay to much like Joseph Smith’s Mormon “church”.(Mormon Bruce R. McConkie said there was no salvation outside The Chuch of Jesus Christ of latter-day Saints) There’s not a snowball’s chance in a microwave that I’d hook up with any group which makes such boastful claims. I will also agree that while there are many Protestant Churches, they (with the exception of “fringe groups”) all believe in Faith Alone, Grace Alone, Christ Alone, Glory to God Alone, and Scripture Alone. The various Protestant Churches are no different than the various Catholic groups. All have the same core beliefs, just different expressions of that same belief.

-Edited for spelling, and grammar errors

 

[WoundedIcon]

I’d have to agree, however, for me, I see Catholics (Romans especially) boast that they are the “One True Church” and that others are heretical, or apostate, and that there is no salvation outside of the Catholic Church. To me, this sound’s waaaay to much like Joseph Smith’s Mormon “church”.(Mormon Bruce R. McConkie said there was no salvation outside The Chuch of Jesus Christ of latter-day Saints) There’s not a snowball’s chance in a microwave that I’d hook up with any group which makes such boastful claims. I will also agree that while there are many Protestant Churches, they (with the exception of “fringe groups”) all believe in Faith Alone, Grace Alone, Christ Alone, Glory to God Alone, and Scripture Alone. The various Protestant Churches are no different than the various Catholic groups. All have the same core beliefs, just different expressions of that same belief.

-Edited for spelling, and grammar errors

But your comparison falls apart when one realizes that Protestants can’t even agree on what a lot of the Solas mean. To a Baptist, your Lutheran teachings of baptismal regeneration and consubstantiation would be a violation of those first three Solas. To a Calvinist, an Arminian’s insistence on conditional election is an affront to Soli Deo Gloria and Sola Gratia. Traditional Protestants believe the Bible to be the ultimate authority, newer stripes believe it to be the only one.

I’ve been there, done that. It’s very different.

 

[Christian_Unity]

Oh come on guys, you are either united to Christ or you are not. All other theological distinctive which divide the body of Christ are moot point, and can tempt the flesh. We should simply attend the purest Christian church according to our own discernment and conscience before God. To say my church is more right than yours, or my church is the one true church is toddler sibling rivalry.

 

[1ke]

All other theological distinctive which divide the body of Christ are moot point

This simply is not true. Truth matters.

To say my church is more right than yours, or my church is the one true church is toddler sibling rivalry.

Truth matters

 

[Digitonomy]

That forum being Non-Catholic Religions? Although I’ll agree he paints with a broad brush.
ChristianUnity:

I still think there is only one body of Christ consisting of those whom God united to Christ which is not about the particular church that you attend. For me, being in union with Christ is quite different than being in communion with the Roman Catholic Church. From my theology, individuals are either united to Adam or they are united to Christ. Everybody needs faith in Christ.

The argument you seem to be advancing is “Love is more important than rules.” I think that’s true enough, and while it’s a very appealing argument, it’s also a very limited one.

Certainly there are those who believe and profess to be united to Christ, that we recognize are not. Just one example that I would submit is the Westboro Baptist Church, which engages in derogatory protests at military funerals. If you agree that there are people and groups that fall into this category, then you must accept that there are rules one can use to distinguish those most united to Christ from those who are not, and also that there are rules that one must follow, and rules that it is helpful to follow, to be and remain united to Christ.

If you can agree with me up to this point, then the rest is merely arguing about which rules are best, who has the authority to make and fine-tune the rules, etc. Rules need not negate love.

 

[Christian_Unity]

This simply is not true. Truth matters.

Truth matters

You guys can continue say the Catholic Church is the One True Church and hold your breath to your face turns blue… like a toddler pouting, but that Catholic belief is just that, a Cathoic belief shared by Catholics in which your Protestants siblings disagree.

 

[1ke]

You guys can continue say the Catholic Church is the One True Church and hold your breath to your face turns blue… like a toddler pouting, but that Catholic belief is just that, a Cathoic belief shared by Catholics in which your Protestants siblings disagree.

So, it is your position that Truth does not matter.