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batman1973
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I’m gonna guess Presbyterian. They are liberal enough for the pot smoking, and I believe are Calvinist, and use the old creeds.
Why are some of you Catholic, Roman Catholc, Obl. OSB, etc
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choliks
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I don’t think any faith tradition is important for CU. 
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Christian_Unity
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I’m catholic and not Catholic. I’m for Christian Unity within orthodoxy… therefore I promote Christian unity and tolerance among Christians from the various Christian communities. Here is a summary of my beliefs:I don’t think any faith tradition is important for CU.
“Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?”And he said to him, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the great and first commandment. And a second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments depend all the Law and the Prophets.” Jesus
For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known. And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love. - Apostle Paul
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SteveVH
Guest
So why won’t you tell anyone where you go to church. Or do you go to church? What’s all the mystery about?
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Christian_Unity
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Well you know, a little mystery is good to have on a Forum site.So why won’t you tell anyone where you go to church. Or do you go to church? What’s all the mystery about?
I like mystery. I used to love Murder she Wrote. The problem here is that dialogue needs as a baseline a knowledge of everyone’s point of reference.
Jon
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Christian_Unity
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That’s my point. Why box me in based on the church that I attend? Hey, I’m Protestant with the flexibility to grow in knowledge and faith found throughout Christendom. I’m not afraid to fellowship and read books that are at the opposite spectrum from my apparent tradition. For me, the Westminster Confession of Faith, London Baptist Confession of 1689, 39 Articles of Faith, and the Catechism of the Catholic Church are all valuable resources in growing in the grace and knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ. It appears I need to study and read more work from Luther too.
That’s great, though there are some overt differences within said confessions. I’m pretty much done with the question, however. I’ve stated how I believe being open with each other helps dialogue. You see it differently, so there’s not much point in continuing to ask.
Jon
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Christian_Unity
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I’m a hybrid cafeteria Christian…finding food for the soul where truth is found. Protestants debate their church leaders all the time.
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SteveVH
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That’s not an answer. What do you do to “worship” the almighty God? Do you do this with other people?
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Aramis
Guest
The Catholic Church is a communion of 23 churches united under the pope, each with* separate hierarchies of bishops, and unique liturgical praxis, but sharing one Faith in the one God in three persons, The forgiveness of SIns, the Life everlasting, and the Authority of the Successor of St. Peter to be Christ’s visible agent on Earth and focus of Unity.
2 of those churches have multiple liturgical expressions (Ethiopian** and Latin***).
The graces, blessings, and salvation available in any of these 23 churches is the same; the liturgical expressions and practices differ, because people don’t all respond to the symbology and practices the same way, and the varied roads to Christ enable more people to more easily begin the faith journey to christ.
The various letter sets following peoples names are affilitations with specific institutions and/or indicators of specific degrees.
- Degrees and licenses
- JCL/JCD/JCOL/JCOD: Canon Lawyers - people approved by Rome to deal with the trials and rules the church has established as lawyers. Many have also JD or PhD(Law) degrees and are also civil attourneys.
- STL/STD: Theologians licensed by Rome.
- MA, MS, MTh, MDiv, MEd, PhD, EdD, ThD, DDiv: masters and doctoral degrees. Many people, both inside and outside the church, use these.
- Religious Community members usually list which community they are part of.
- OP, OFM, OFMC, FFV, OSB: Friars - a type of Consecrated Religious, with the letters telling you which community they belong to. In order, Dominicans (Order of Preachers), Fransciscans (Order of Friars Minor), Capuchin Franciscans, Franciscan Friars of Life, Order of St. Benedict. There are others.
- FSSP, SJ: Priestly societies. They are consecrated religious but primarily clergy. Priestly Fraternity of St. Peter and Jesuit (Society of Jesus), respectively. There are a few more.
- CSB, OPraem, DSP: Monastic Religious. Congregation of St. Basil, Norbertines, Daughters of St. Paul. They pray, mostly, but support their orders through other activities. The Basilians support the Eastern Churches with loaned clergy and working for the eparchies.
*The Russian Greek Catholic Church has no bishops of its own, but is cared for by the local Roman Bishops where it is present. This is, in fact, as it should be barring human frailties. Human frailties are why the various separate churches in the union exist.
** Ethiopian Rite, Eritrean use of the Ethiopian Rite, and Roman Rite
*** Currently in use: Roman Rite Ordinary Form, Roman Rite Extraordinary Form (aka TLM), Dominican Rite, Mozarbic Rite (of Toledo, Spain), Bragan Rite (Of Braga, Portugul), Ambrosian Rite (of Florence, Italy), Anglican Use of the Roman Rite.
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Christian_Unity
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Thank you!
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Christian_Unity
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Can you provide someting like this about the Orthodox churches, or eastern churches? Protestants like me need education on this issue.
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Zooey
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guanophore
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I think some Catholics here also identify themselves as “orthodox” to mean that they cling to the Teachings of the Church, so as to clearly distinguish themselves from cafeteria “Catholics” who don’t.
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guanophore
Guest
I agree. The question then becomes, what does it mean to be united with Christ? for those in the Church founded upon the Apostles, it means that we embrace One Faith, and that we canot pick an choose which parts of it we like, or decide to reject or ignore. It is all, or nothing. Unity with Him means embracing all that He did and taught, and all that He entrusted to His Apostles, which includes the authority of His own that He gave to them. If one says she is united to Christ, yet rejects the authority appointed over her by Him, then what kind of unity is that?
Where does it say this in your bible? the Bible left to us by the Apostles strictly prohibits “theological distinctives”. On the contrary,t he Apostles taught that we are to have no “different doctrine”, and that if someone comes to us with any such different doctrine “let them be accursed”. Doesn’t sound very “moot” to me!
I agree, the doctrinal distinctives are very much rooted in the flesh.
Jesus taught His Apostles Truth, and how to tell the Truth from error. He gave them authority, and the promise of the HS so that they could exercise discernment. It falls to the Church, founded upon the Apostles and prophets, to be the pillar and the ground of Truth. This can only be if the infallible HS of God preserves the Church without error, for human beings of themselves can be no pillar or ground of Truth. The Apostles battled with heresies and divisions to their deaths, and after, their successors the Bishops have continued that battle. It is their duty to feed and care for the flock. If this sounds to you like “toddler sibling rivalry”, then perhaps you have a childish understanding of the purpose of Jesus’ Church.
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guanophore
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It is that, but it is also more than that. The Catholic faith is much bigger than the body of believers here on earth that belong to her. She also stands above and apart from all people of our day and age and is composed of all who have been in Christ since the beginning of time. Were all the Catholics now alive to abandon the faith, Catholicism would still be alive and well. This is the major difference in how we understand the nature of “church”. Jesus is the Head, and she is ensould by the Holy Spirit. It is these divine elements that make her infallible, not the human.
Proof that “doctrinal distinctives” are not moot.
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Aramis
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Other churches the Catholic Church considers valid but which are not in Communion with Rome…
Eastern Orthodoxy
There are about 30-some odd Eastern Orthodox Churches - most notably the OCA, Greek, Russian, and Antiochian Orthodox, all of whom are byzantine rite. Each Church was at one point a national church, and most still are.
There are several other groups that the Catholic Church considers Eastern Orthodox but who are not in communion with the EO. The Ukrainian Orthodox Church - Kyiv Patriarchate, for example.
Some EO churches use a Byzantified Roman Rite Liturgy. The Antiochian and OCA churches permit “Western Rite Liturgies” derived from the Roman Rite via the Anglican version of the Roman Rite, with some byzantifications. This is the only Non-Byzantine rite liturgical form in the EO.
Oriental Orthodoxy
The “Oriental Orthodox” or “Non-Chalcedonian Orthodox” are headed by the Pope of Alexandria - they just elected a new one, I don’t know his name. The Oriental Orthodox Communion includes the Coptic Orthodox, Ethiopian Orthodox, Eritrean Orthodox, Syrian Orthodox, and Malankara Syrian Orthodox, and Armenian Orthodox. They use the Alexandrian,Syrian, Armenian, and Antiocene Rites. They as a group are not in communion with the EO, either.
Assyro-Chaldean
The Assyrian Churches - Assyrian Church of the East and Ancient Church of the East, are nominally tolerant of communing Catholics of the Chaldean Catholic Church, and in practice, of most Catholics… the Assyrian Church is formally in “limited communion” with the Chaldean Catholic church - no priestly concelebration, but the faithful are permitted to be communed both ways.
The Ancient Church of the East schismed off from the Assyrian Church of the East in 1964 over calendrical reforms.
Both are liturgically very close to the Chaldean Catholic Church in liturgy and practice, and all share the Chaldean Rite.
They are not in communion with the EO nor OO.
Polish National Catholic Church
The PNCC has maintained the Trent Liturgy, but uses it in Polish and English; it retains male-only priests and bishops, and clear apostolic succession. They don’t commune Catholics ordinarily, and are not in communion with the EO, OO, nor Assyrians.
Old Believers - Popovtsi
A schism from the Russian Othodox. They reject the Nikonian reforms of the 1650’s… and the Post-Nikonian Liturgy and Hierarchy.
Small communities exist in the American Pacific Northwest and in Alaska; Larger ones in various regions of Russia and the Ukraine.
Some groups returned to the Russian Orthodox Church late in the 20th Century.
Comparable splinter groups exist for other EO national Churches…
Not as Clear
Old Catholics
The Old Catholics are a schism from the Catholic Church over Vatican I. They do not all have valid orders by Catholic Reconing, but most do.
There are several major strains - The Union of Utrecht being the most noted. Utrecht left the Catholic Church over papal infalibility, and have been behind a lot of the apostolic succession outside orthodoxy and the Catholic Church. Generally, the Catholics have held that Utrecht has valid sacraments, but with recent changes in their policies, that’s likely to change.
Many Old Catholic jurisdictions ordain women, some ordain active homosexuals, and most practice open communion to some degree - Catholics are often welcomed to commune, but Catholics are not supposed to commune unless they have no other option for the Easter Duty. Most have married clergy, many allow priests to marry after ordination.
One Old Catholic splinter is the Polish Mariavite Church. Their bishops have been women since the early part of the 20th Century… They claim apostolic succession, but neither the Orthodox nor Catholics acknowledge their succession, as it doesn’t pass through women.
Visually, most OC jurisdictions look very VERY Catholic. Their social stance, however, is often very different.
Independent Orthodoxy
Most of these are actually Old Catholic clergy who have adopted the Byzantine Rite. Rarely, an Orthodox priest goes rogue, and establishes an independent parish. A few are far more dubious in origins.
A few use the Chaldean rite or Syrian Rite.
Priestless Old Believers - Bespopovtsi
Technically, most of these don’t have the Eucharist.
A few small groups use a lay-lead Eucharistic Rite. Their Eucharist isn’t considered valid by pretty much anyone outside their own group.
There are a number of such groups, almost all descended from Russian Orthodoxy, and they established themselves in the 1650’s and 60’s, rejecting the Nikonian Schism as proof the apostolic succession had been lost. There are groups of Bespopovtsi in Alaska, Russia, Oregon, and Washington, possibly more.
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minkymurph
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Because human nature is as human nature is - people fall out.
That’s the short answer, and I would say a lot of the historical context has already been discussed so I won’t go over it again.
People being as they are disunity exists among them. Disunity can exist within a family. However, people do not cease to be a part of or a member of that family when there is disunity - even when marriage breaks down. An exception to that is when there are no children involved, but I would not describe a couple as a ‘family’ in the full sense.
What makes the Catholic Church one is not the people or the labels they attach to themselves, but the faith they profess. It’s like the term ‘Christian.’ As we know disunity exists among Christians, but put simply a ‘Christian’ is someone who follows the teachings of Christ. This is the uniting factor - unity of belief in the person of Jesus Christ.
Another way to explain it, (which may not be the best way
) is bikers consider themselves one and will call each other ‘brother.’ There are different bike clubs and members of these clubs have a closer affiliation with each other than members of other clubs or bikers who don’t belong to a club, but they are all ‘bikers.’What makes the Catholic Church one is all Catholics profess the same Creed and the nature of their faith is the same in that they share the same core beliefs. The Creed is the Nicene Creed and the core beliefs, (put simply, and I acknowledge one could enlarge on this but at this stage I don’t wish to complicate matters at this stage) are; the Holy Trinity, Christ was the Incarnate God, Mary was mother of God, and Real Presence. Catholics are also one in that they are all baptized with the one baptism, and all share in the partaking of Holy Communion. These factors identify the nature of one’s faith as Catholic.
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