Why Are Some People Strongly Opposed to Communion on the Tongue?

[Cat]

I’ve never seen a dropped Host in five years.

I’ve talked to EMHC, who’ve never seen a dropped Host.

Honestly, I_Believe, I appreciate your zeal, but I cannot accept what you say because you are essentially criticizing the Church. The Church, led by the bishop(s), has said that receiving Holy Communion in the hand is acceptable.

If it were as irreverent as you and others say it is, the Church would immediately condemn the practice and end it. But the Church does NOT condemn the practice and end it. I have the feeling that what you are saying is that the Church (the bishop) is slacking, and I WILL NOT accept that. I absolutely will NOT accept it. End of debate.

Yes, I will accept that individual bishops are making mistakes in their interpretations of the rubrics, and I will accept…God have mercy on us…that individual bishops are “liberal” in their interpretations of faith and morals–they should be called in on the carpet for this and spanked.

But I will NOT ACCEPT that Pope Benedict XVI is lacking in brains and guts–he is the Vicar of Christ!

If the Vicar of Christ does not have the courage and fortitude to enforce ending something as seriously perverted and irreverent as you and others say it is (receiving Holy Communion in the hand), then he is a liar and a fraud, and the Catholic Church is nothing but an ancient manifestation of Christianity, just another denomination.

If you do not understand this argument, then you have no understanding of the way a convert thinks. To us, either the Church is correct, or the Church is a fraud. Either we obey all, or we reject all. Either the Church has balls, or it is pretending.

It can’t be any other way. We can’t be cafeteria Catholics and accept what we like and reject what we dislike. We accept ALL of the teachings of Holy Mother Church, including the teaching that the Church can and does grant indults, and that She has granted an indult to the United States to receive Holy Communion in the hand.

Yes, I will accept that the Church is divided on unimportant issues, like music (sorry brotherhrolf and benedictgal), and that Pope Benedict XVI and others have a much more conservative preference than many priests in the world.

But I will NOT accept that Pope Benedict XVI is willing to allow Catholics in the United States to continue a practice that is “banal” or “irreverent” or “that allows the Body of the Lord to be desecrated” or “allows the Lord’s Body to be spilled onto a glove and discarded onto the floor like trash”. If our Holy Father is willing to allow us all to continue this perverted and disgusting practice (as you would call it), then he is not only a wimp, but he is a sadist.

We clear now? You feel free to receive the Lord in the way that you feel comfortable. But do NOT accuse our Church of wimping out on this issue. If that’s the case, then I am OUT OF ROME. OK?

 

[Shin]

Interesting… so your cleaving to the Catholic Faith depends upon the impeccability of the Pope, rather than the very restricted limitations of infallibility.

I wonder how you deal with history.

I think you need to revisit your understanding what it means to -be- a Catholic and how -there is no other choice-, and how the Faith does -not- depend on the holiness of the hierarchy of the Church at any particular time in history.

You will find no religion full of holy membership high and low all throughout, not Judaism, not Catholicism, not any denomination, not any weird little sect that springs up with five people and dies out a bit later.

There is One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church. One.

When you say ‘I am OUT OF ROME’ you know, you really aren’t in, because when you’re REALLY in, you can’t get out, there is no choice. It doesn’t matter if the Pope is doing the hula with fifteen choir boys in New Orleans with the Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence. The Church is the Church. There are rules and doctrines that work out all the potential problems that can happen. Because Christ made it. Not mankind. Not even Popes committing the worst of deeds can destroy it.

You need to do some more studies and be less… emotional about this issue. You say that as if you are punishing people… but let me tell you… you’re the one you’re hurting most.

I will keep you in my prayers as I’m sure others will too. Peace.

May your faith and understanding be deepened. Amen.

 

[brotherhrolf]

Cat: I have seen it with my own eyes sadly on too many occassions…at a cathedral no less. I’ve heard the gasps of my fellow parishoners. I’ve also seen a disturbed man walk up at communion with a red plastic baseball bat who would have hit Father were it not for the deft actions of our cantor who grabbed the bat out of his hand. That you have not seen it in five years and that your EMHC’s have not seen it does not mean that it is a rarity.

I have read on these very fora of people who have been refused communion on the tongue at certain parishes. I certainly understand, respect, and appreciate your thoughts as a convert. On the other hand, I am a cradle Catholic who was born before Vatican II. I stand by my sentiments as do many others of my generation. I attend a reverent OF cathedral parish and I would say a good 50% of us receive on the tongue.

I had previously read Fr. Z"s article demonstrating that which I already knew as a pre-Vatican II altar boy. Those patens that we stuck under peoples necks did indeed catch particles of the Precious Body. My mark II eyeballs were more than capable of seeing them against the gold of the paten. The patens were cleaned into the chalice where the priest had retained sufficient Precious Blood so that all might be consumed.

What gets lost on these Traditional Catholic threads is that, yes, there were many of my generation who overwhelmingly embraced what came after the Second Vatican Council. There were just as many of us who were happy with HMC and we have spent the last 40 years agonizing but ultimately submitting to the magesterium or, after 1983, voting with our feet and joining parishes where “traditions” were maintained.

I saw my parent’s generation marginalized in the 70s. We always attended the main Mass on Sundays. When the changes became too much, my folks and neighbors started attending the 8am Mass. When the changes came to the 8am Mass, my folks started attending the Vigil Mass and there they found a home since there was no music and little of the changes. My parents have been gone for ten years but I can assure you they never received in the hand.

Like it or not, Cat, part of being Catholic is that we do have traditions and Sacred Tradition. OK, the US does have an indult for communion in the hand. I submit to the magesterium. But I do not intend to go gently into that good night like my folks did. Nor do I intend to attend our indult TLM parish (another form of marginalization) since my bishop merely “acknowledged” the Motu Proprio. I am a living, breathing member of the Body of Christ. I am not a wild-eyed reactionary filled with zeal for the EF. I am simply a middle-aged, balding old man who does indeed prefer chant and sacred motets and remembers the words “Domine, non sum dignus.”

 

[ElizabethPH]

I’ve seen it as well, and once I didn’t see it but I heard it as a terrified inhale of breath went through the congregation. As well a few times while receiving in the hand, upon taking the host from my left hand I saw pieces left. I don’t receive in the hand anymore. Just afraid of that happening and me not catching it.

But I want to be clear. I am not so opposed to receiving in the hand, if that’s what you prefer.

 

[Cluny]

In the few times I have received in my hand, it has been the RIGHT hand, which I bring to my mouth.

THIS is the procedure that St. Cyril of Jerusalem describes, not transferring it from hand to hand.

I also would not budge from my spot until I had checked my palm and swallowed all the Host.

 

[rciadan]

quote=Cat;5150522]I’ve never seen a dropped Host in five years.

I’ve talked to EMHC, who’ve never seen a dropped Host

I have been Catholic for 11 years now and have been registered at a few different parishes. In that time I have seen;

• An EHMC drop an entire (glass) bowl of consecrated Hosts on the floor, thus mixing the Body of Christ with the broken glass
• multiple (at least six instances) of people pretending to eat the Body of Christ only to secret the consecrated Host in thier pocket and attempt to leave the church
• EHMC’s dropping the Host and not knowing what to do next
• Priests and Bishop refuse to allow kneeling to receive Communion on the tongue

In the parish I am in now, which is a very conservative one (We offer the Traditional Latin Mass every Sunday) I have witnessed;

• 2 attempts to steal the consecrated Host that I myself foiled
• 1 time when a whole family of four pocketed the Hosts! When confronted after Mass (in an extremely tactful and polite manner) three of them gave Him back and one of the kids refused to admit he had done so and the parents were adamant that, if he said he did not then the did not! I followed and saw myself the kid with Christ in his hand in the car as they pulled out of the parking lot!
• One time a man came up and grabbed a handful of consecrated Hosts and walked away. When the priest told him he could not do that, he flung them all over the church!
• EHMC’s make ugly faces at those who come up to them obviously wishing to receive on the tongue
• EHMC attempting to place the Host in someones hand when they are standing there with thier tongue out

I think that no-one, if any is going to be so honest as to say they are against Communion on the tongue, but many are. The OP’s question is quite valid.
I must also say that I have never seen these abuses at the Traditional Latin Mass, where all receive on the tongue and there are no EHMC’s.

BTW- The Priest, by himself, manages to give Holy Communion to at least one to two hundred people by himself every Sunday, and does so in less time than it takes to give Communion at the daily NO Mass…

One last question- What is so *Extraordinary *about these Ministers of Holy Communion if they **Ordinarily **do this every Sunday?

 

[ElizabethPH]

In the few times I have received in my hand, it has been the RIGHT hand, which I bring to my mouth.

THIS is the procedure that St. Cyril of Jerusalem describes, not transferring it from hand to hand.

I also would not budge from my spot until I had checked my palm and swallowed all the Host.

I don’t know if you are referring to my posting in regards to taking the host from my left hand. But what you describe is what I did. I would take the host that is cupped in my left palm with my right hand.

 

[Cat]

I have been Catholic for 11 years now and have been registered at a few different parishes. In that time I have seen;

• An EHMC drop an entire (glass) bowl of consecrated Hosts on the floor, thus mixing the Body of Christ with the broken glass
• multiple (at least six instances) of people pretending to eat the Body of Christ only to secret the consecrated Host in thier pocket and attempt to leave the church
• EHMC’s dropping the Host and not knowing what to do next
• Priests and Bishop refuse to allow kneeling to receive Communion on the tongue

In the parish I am in now, which is a very conservative one (We offer the Traditional Latin Mass every Sunday) I have witnessed;

• 2 attempts to steal the consecrated Host that I myself foiled
• 1 time when a whole family of four pocketed the Hosts! When confronted after Mass (in an extremely tactful and polite manner) three of them gave Him back and one of the kids refused to admit he had done so and the parents were adamant that, if he said he did not then the did not! I followed and saw myself the kid with Christ in his hand in the car as they pulled out of the parking lot!
• One time a man came up and grabbed a handful of consecrated Hosts and walked away. When the priest told him he could not do that, he flung them all over the church!
• EHMC’s make ugly faces at those who come up to them obviously wishing to receive on the tongue
• EHMC attempting to place the Host in someones hand when they are standing there with thier tongue out

I think that no-one, if any is going to be so honest as to say they are against Communion on the tongue, but many are. The OP’s question is quite valid.
I must also say that I have never seen these abuses at the Traditional Latin Mass, where all receive on the tongue and there are no EHMC’s.

BTW- The Priest, by himself, manages to give Holy Communion to at least one to two hundred people by himself every Sunday, and does so in less time than it takes to give Communion at the daily NO Mass…

One last question- What is so *Extraordinary *about these Ministers of Holy Communion if they **Ordinarily **do this every Sunday?

But surely you see that these things could happen if Communion were offered only to those who receive on the tongue? People could receive the Lord’s Body on their tongue, step away, take Him out of their mouth, and desecrate His Body later.

Several of the incidences that you describe above are almost devilish-sounding. Why would an entire family try to hide the Lord’s Body to take Him home? It almost sounds like some kind of superstitious practice, perhaps a “charm” or occult ritual. But again, a family who is doing this could do it just as easily by receiving Him on the tongue. So could the man who grabbed the Hosts. These kind of people aren’t going to be thwarted in their attempts to desecrate the Lord. It’s very disturbing, but I don’t think the answer is receiving Him on the tongue only, and I don’t think the answer is better catechesis about the True Presence. It’s obvious that these people BELIEVE strongly enough in the True Presence of God Himself to want to steal Him and have His Power in their homes (at least, that’s what they think). Or perhaps they are anti-Catholics who want to prove that the Host is not Jesus–well, they can steal Him on their tongue as easily as they can steal Him in their hand.

 

[I_Believe]

I’ve never seen a dropped Host in five years.

I’ve talked to EMHC, who’ve never seen a dropped Host.

Honestly, I_Believe, I appreciate your zeal, but I cannot accept what you say because you are essentially criticizing the Church. The Church, led by the bishop(s), has said that receiving Holy Communion in the hand is acceptable.

If it were as irreverent as you and others say it is, the Church would immediately condemn the practice and end it. But the Church does NOT condemn the practice and end it. I have the feeling that what you are saying is that the Church (the bishop) is slacking, and I WILL NOT accept that. I absolutely will NOT accept it. End of debate.

Yes, I will accept that individual bishops are making mistakes in their interpretations of the rubrics, and I will accept…God have mercy on us…that individual bishops are “liberal” in their interpretations of faith and morals–they should be called in on the carpet for this and spanked.

But I will NOT ACCEPT that Pope Benedict XVI is lacking in brains and guts–he is the Vicar of Christ!

If the Vicar of Christ does not have the courage and fortitude to enforce ending something as seriously perverted and irreverent as you and others say it is (receiving Holy Communion in the hand), then he is a liar and a fraud, and the Catholic Church is nothing but an ancient manifestation of Christianity, just another denomination.

If you do not understand this argument, then you have no understanding of the way a convert thinks. To us, either the Church is correct, or the Church is a fraud. Either we obey all, or we reject all. Either the Church has balls, or it is pretending.

It can’t be any other way. We can’t be cafeteria Catholics and accept what we like and reject what we dislike. We accept ALL of the teachings of Holy Mother Church, including the teaching that the Church can and does grant indults, and that She has granted an indult to the United States to receive Holy Communion in the hand.

Yes, I will accept that the Church is divided on unimportant issues, like music (sorry brotherhrolf and benedictgal), and that Pope Benedict XVI and others have a much more conservative preference than many priests in the world.

But I will NOT accept that Pope Benedict XVI is willing to allow Catholics in the United States to continue a practice that is “banal” or “irreverent” or “that allows the Body of the Lord to be desecrated” or “allows the Lord’s Body to be spilled onto a glove and discarded onto the floor like trash”. If our Holy Father is willing to allow us all to continue this perverted and disgusting practice (as you would call it), then he is not only a wimp, but he is a sadist.

We clear now? You feel free to receive the Lord in the way that you feel comfortable. But do NOT accuse our Church of wimping out on this issue. If that’s the case, then I am OUT OF ROME. OK?

Cat, you can twist my words all you want, but nevertheless, if you’ll send me an address, I’ll send you a T-shirt that says “It’ll All Good”, and you can wear that to Mass.

 

[I_Believe]

I just want to hear one good reason to continue CITH despite dropped Hosts and spilled Precious Blood.

Just one. That’s all I’m asking. One answer that will make me see how wonderful CITH is and how that reason renders enabling these accidents to continue justified. CITH by it’s nature increases the chance of these accidents happen.

Surely there is an answer other than the early Church did it before certain Doctrines were set in place, or simply to save our precious time.

Make me a believer.

 

[Charioteer]

Well, that condition that is in bold on that document has not been met friend. Seeing Hosts dropped is shocking.

And the original indult granted was for only those places where the practice of CITH was already in place.

How do you feel about dropped Hosts ?

Why are you now leaving the subject of “Why Are Some People Strongly Opposed to Communion on the Tongue?”

As to your NEW SUBJECT like any Catholic I am alarmed and saddened by even the prospect of a dropped host. I am also aware that hosts are at least as likely to be dropped when placing them on one’s tongue OR hands. I am also aware that communion patens can be used with either method of communion – although they are largely useless – a folded purificator works far better.

 

[Charioteer]

I just want to hear one good reason to continue CITH despite dropped Hosts…

Your question is flawed because your are inferring that a host is more likely to be dropped during CitH versus CotT and that’s simply not true. In fact in my personal experience, just the opposite is true – more hosts get dropped trying to place them on communicants’ tongues.

That said I will give you a prime and timely reason for communion in the hand. To halt the spread of disease during a pandemic.

You think people abstain from communion when they are ill? Nonsense. You think these fingers of even the most skilled communion distributors do not get saliva on them from time to time? Again, nonsense.

So there you go. Asked and answered.

 

[Charioteer]

People should be strongly opposed to communion on the hand.

Taken from Father Z’s blog, gives you something to think about.

I wonder if they had to use sandpaper to set-up that shot? Perhaps an extra special host that had been baked just a bit too long? In any event the hosts used in my parish certainly do not slough-off crumbs like that. No way no how.

 

[brotherhrolf]

I wonder if they had to use sandpaper to set-up that shot? Perhaps an extra special host that had been baked just a bit too long? In any event the hosts used in my parish certainly do not slough-off crumbs like that. No way no how.

Um, no, actually. Perhaps you missed my comments earlier. I was an altar boy before Vatican II and we used patens:

http://www.aquinasandmore.com/images/items/xl10421.jpg

Even though everyone knelt and received on the tongue, there were visisble particles on the paten. This is not hype or hyperbole unless I was on electric Kool Aid way back before 1967.

 

[I_Believe]

Why are you now leaving the subject of “Why Are Some People Strongly Opposed to Communion on the Tongue?”

As to your NEW SUBJECT like any Catholic I am alarmed and saddened by even the prospect of a dropped host. I am also aware that hosts are at least as likely to be dropped when placing them on one’s tongue OR hands. I am also aware that communion patens can be used with either method of communion – although they are largely useless – a folded purificator works far better.

“Why Are Some People Strongly Opposed to Communion on the Tongue?”
Sure I’ll offer my opinion of that. It’s simply ignorance of why the Church had us receive in the traditional manner in the first place.

Can you offer a reason we should continue with the accident prone method of CITH, despite the fact you are alarmed ?

 

[I_Believe]

I wonder if they had to use sandpaper to set-up that shot? Perhaps an extra special host that had been baked just a bit too long? In any event the hosts used in my parish certainly do not slough-off crumbs like that. No way no how.

There you go again. Trouble is, you are in denial. You have an answer for everything, but you can offer no justifiable reason to continue allowing an accident prone practice to remain in place.

 

[Cat]

Cat, you can twist my words all you want, but nevertheless, if you’ll send me an address, I’ll send you a T-shirt that says “It’ll All Good”, and you can wear that to Mass.

What does “It’ll All Good” mean?

 

[I_Believe]

What does “It’ll All Good” mean?

Sorry, typo. It’s all Good

 

[Cat]

I wonder if they had to use sandpaper to set-up that shot? Perhaps an extra special host that had been baked just a bit too long? In any event the hosts used in my parish certainly do not slough-off crumbs like that. No way no how.

I’ve visited one Catholic Church that had hosts that were “crumby.” I believe that they might not have been legitimate (or whatever the appropriate word is), but I’m not sure??? Far be it from me to question the work of the excellent priests of that parish.

I know that there are other recipes for hosts, and perhaps this parish used one of those recipes and the result was that “crumby” host that had the consistency of a pie crust–very flaky and crumbly. I know that someone told me that this was the first time they had used these hosts, so maybe it was something new?

At any rate, it was so crumbly that I don’t think receiving on the tongue or the hand would have made a difference. I think receiving on the tongue might have resulted in a lot of people choking on the crumbs that fell into their throat, and that would have been even worse.

I often wonder if the parish decided “Never again!” after trying that “brand” of host.

 

[I_Believe]

I’m done here, but I’ll check back to see if anyone actually has an answer.

Again,

"Does anyone on this forum believe there is any benefit of CITH and EMHC that would render these accidents tolerable ? Can we think of a single one that would not center on **our own needs **?