why are some rejecting the cup

  • Thread starter Thread starter Starbuck1
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
I do believe that receiving under both species would be best, however, I do not support the way it is currently done because I don’t believe that lay people ought to be handling the chalice.
 
Sarabande said:
Yes. I agree. Unfortunately, I’ve seen too many people receive while still sniffling and coughing and handling the cup after sneezing into their hands or wiping their nose. I guess that’s fine, but the last few times I received the Precious Blood, I got really sick, and I wasn’t sick before then. The last time, I actually got mono.
Click to expand...
Scary!:eek:
 
Anthony,

Try to understand it this way- everything in the world has certain properties that react to our human senses- what it looks like, what it feels like, tastes like, smells like. Yet these properties are separate from from substance- simply, what something actually is.

At Mass, Bread and Wine are consecrated and take on the substance of the Body and Blood of Christ. They retain the outward physical properties of bread and wine, but because the substance is purely the Sacramental Flesh and Blood of Our Lord the Eucharist altougather ceases to be bread and wine.
 
Ahimsa said:
When do the accidents no longer remain present?
Click to expand...
At the moment of the Consecration, when the priest raises the element up. At this moment, it is customary in many parishes for the Altar server to ring a bell to signify that the Consecration has taken place.
 
I have a terrible fear of eating and drinking in public. There are times I can’t even swallow and I’ll start choking and spitting stuff up. It’s much easier for me to take the Host than the blood of Christ so that’s what I do.
 
crenfro said:
I have a terrible fear of eating and drinking in public. There are times I can’t even swallow and I’ll start choking and spitting stuff up. It’s much easier for me to take the Host than the blood of Christ so that’s what I do.
Click to expand...
I am very sorry for you - it must make for a very difficult social life, not to be able to attend parties or dinners out. 😦
 
Starbuck1 said:
It came to my attention during the Mass tonight that some members are taking the bread but not the wine. They just walk past the person holding the cup of wine and smile at them. Why would they refuse the wine?
Ken
Click to expand...
Speaking ONLY for myself…I am a Recovered Alcoholic, 23-1/2 years sober. Jesus knows this, and I am quite sure he not only understands, but quite approves. And if ever Jesus did have anything to say to me about this, it would probably be “One Day At A Time”. 😃

It works the other way around. Some catholics are allergic to the wheat glutan in the Host, so take the cup only.
 
lak611 said:
They do not receive from the Chalice. There was a poster on another thread who received from the Chalice on an AA retreat because mustum, not regular wine was used. This is what alcoholic priests use. It contains such a minute quantity of alcohol that it is insignificant. It is not grape juice, though. Grape juice is not valid matter for the Eucharist.
Click to expand...
That was me. (Actually, ANY grape juice exposed to the air quickly becomes mustum. The required yeast is all around us.
 
Andruschak said:
That was me. (Actually, ANY grape juice exposed to the air quickly becomes mustum. The required yeast is all around us.
Click to expand...
There’s a difference, though, between mustum and Welch’s. Mustum is valid for Catholic Communion, but not the Welch’s that many Protestants use.
 
lak611 said:
There’s a difference, though, between mustum and Welch’s. Mustum is valid for Catholic Communion, but not the Welch’s that many Protestants use.
Click to expand...
Wanna bet:D Leaving grape juice exposed to air allows those busy little yeast buds to start their work. How much alcohol do the yeast have to produce to be officially mustum? Not much, and pprobably quite quickly.

Back in my good old days as an alcoholic, allowing grape juice, apple juice, and other fruit juices from the market to ferment was a cheap way to get drunk.

(Kids, don;t try this at home)
 
Andruschak said:
Wanna bet:D Leaving grape juice exposed to air allows those busy little yeast buds to start their work. How much alcohol do the yeast have to produce to be officially mustum? Not much, and pprobably quite quickly.

Back in my good old days as an alcoholic, allowing grape juice, apple juice, and other fruit juices from the market to ferment was a cheap way to get drunk.

(Kids, don;t try this at home)
Click to expand...
The difference is that the Welch’s is pasteurized and the mustum is natural. Yes, they will both turn to wine if left out. The mustum, being natural, though, is ok for Mass.
C. By ‘mustum’ is understood fresh juice from grapes or juice preserved by suspending its fermentation (by means of freezing or other methods which do not alter its nature).
Click to expand...
from this website. From the same website:
In order for mustum to be valid the process used for the suspension of fermentation must not alter the nature of the juice in any way. For this reason, pasteurized grape juice in which all alcohol has been evaporated through high-temperature preparations is invalid matter for Mass.
Click to expand...
 
Great question!

I have being wondering about that myself.

As a Eucharist minister, I have been told that you can take just the bread or the bread/the wine as Communion.

Some people reject the cup because of a health issue such as the flu or cold. Some people reject the cup because of a problem with the addiction of alcohol. Others just reject it because they can’t hold the chalice or can’t swallow. There are so many reasons as to why they don’t partake of the cup.

I partake of both species. If I am sick, then I would just take the body of Christ and be done with it.
 
anthony022071 said:
Catechism of the Catholic Church:

Quote:
1390 Since Christ is sacramentally present under each of the species, communion under the species of bread alone makes it possible to receive all the fruit of Eucharistic grace. For pastoral reasons this manner of receiving communion has been legitimately established as the most common form in the Latin rite.

Yes,but why? Why would a Catholic not also receive the wine?
Why avoid so fundamental a gesture? Phobias and allergies are no good reasons to avoid it.
Click to expand...
Probably because they have been doing it for so long under the Latin rite. They may not realize that you are now also welcome to take the Blood of Christ. They are so use to the old ways that it seemed odd to them that you would sip from the cup.
 
ukdal1 said:
I can only speak for myself, but I don’t recieve from the cup because I am scared of catching something from someone else (and backwash).I REALLY don’t want to sound disrespectful of our Lord’s Precious Blood, I would really love to receive It, but it’s just a phobia I have. 😊
Click to expand...
As an EMHC, I can tell you that there is no backwash. We have glass chalices, and people bring the wine to their lips VERY slowly, and only allow a little past their lips. It’s something that no one is taught, but everyone seems to do.
 
anthony022071 said:
Catechism of the Catholic Church:

Quote:
1390 Since Christ is sacramentally present under each of the species, communion under the species of bread alone makes it possible to receive all the fruit of Eucharistic grace. For pastoral reasons this manner of receiving communion has been legitimately established as the most common form in the Latin rite.

Yes,but why? Why would a Catholic not also receive the wine?
Why avoid so fundamental a gesture? Phobias and allergies are no good reasons to avoid it.
Click to expand...
There was a heresy (Utraquism) in the 15th century that posited that unless you received both the Host and the Chalice, you were not receiving Christ’s Body and Blood. The Church combated this heresy. It was formally declared at the council of Trent that receiving under one form, you still received the whole of the Eucharist: Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity.

This “fundamental … gesture” has only recently been commonplace in the Church.

Trent on the Eucharist: ccel.org/ccel/schaff/creeds2.v.i.i.vi.html
Trent on Communion Under Both Kinds: ccel.org/ccel/schaff/creeds2.v.i.i.viii.html
Trent on the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass: ccel.org/ccel/schaff/creeds2.v.i.i.ix.html
 
Sheeniac said:
We have glass chalices, .
Click to expand...
Glass chalices are not to be used.

*Redemptionis Sacramentum

Reprobated, therefore, is any practice of using for the celebration of Mass common vessels, or others lacking in quality, or devoid of all artistic merit or which are mere containers, as also other vessels made from glass, earthenware, clay, or other materials that break easily.*
 
I kinda figured that glass was bad. I knew that they weren’t to be used by the priest, but wasn’t sure about distribution by EMHCs. They certainly are devoid of any artistic merit as well.

The paperwork in my parish referred to ‘special ministers of Holy Communion’.

Sigh…

We’re not as bad as a lot of wayward parishes, but we certainly have our issues. Pope St. Pius X, pray for us.

I’m not too keen on the usage of EHMCs either, but I figured since they were going to be used anyway, better that a very orthodox person like myself get and stay involved. I offer it up to Jesus.
 
lak611 said:
Those of us who do receive from the Chalice are receiving the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Christ, not wine. Those of us who only receive the Host are receiving the same Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Christ. We do not receive “bread” and “wine”. Have you read the links I provided regarding Transubstantiation?
Click to expand...
Yes,I read them. But we do receive bread and wine. To deny the existence of the bread and wine after consecration is absurd – it’s like denying the validity of sensory experience. Jesus not only said “This is my body” and “This is my blood”,he also said that his body is true bread and his blood is true wine. The body and blood of Christ take the form of bread and wine,and that is the palpable form in which we consume him. To say that we don’t receive bread and wine is like saying we don’t receive Christ. So there need be no dichotomy between what our senses tell us and what we know by faith.

If the wine is absent after consecration,then no one can say that they avoid drinking from the cup because they are allergic to wine. Rather,they would be allergic to Christ.
 
Caesar said:
Anthony,

Try to understand it this way- everything in the world has certain properties that react to our human senses- what it looks like, what it feels like, tastes like, smells like. Yet these properties are separate from from substance- simply, what something actually is.

At Mass, Bread and Wine are consecrated and take on the substance of the Body and Blood of Christ. They retain the outward physical properties of bread and wine, but because the substance is purely the Sacramental Flesh and Blood of Our Lord the Eucharist altougather ceases to be bread and wine.
Click to expand...
Yes,but the body of Christ is true bread and his blood is true wine,as he himself said. So when we speak of the body and blood of Christ we are still speaking in terms of bread and wine.
The conversion of bread and wine does not mean that they cease to exist. If you say that the Eucharist altogether ceases to be bread and wine,that is like contradicting the palpable presence of Christ out of existence.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top