why are some rejecting the cup

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Yes, Cardinal Arinze declared intinction to be an option “always and everywhere”.

Intinction is the standard method of offering both species in my parish. It has the advantage of being both more hygenic, and reducing the number of ministers needed.

Also, in the Eastern Catholic Churches, it is the ONLY way that the Eucharist is offered.
I think it should be in the Roman Rite as well.

The GIRM says that the diocesan Bishop may lay down norms for the distribution of Communion under both kinds for his own diocese, which must be observed. . . . The diocesan Bishop also has the faculty to allow Communion under both kinds, **whenever it seems appropriate **to the priest to whom charge of a given community has been entrusted as [its] own pastor, **provided that the faithful have been well instructed and there is no danger of the profanation of the Sacrament or that the rite would be difficult to carry out on account of the number of participants or for some other reason. **(36)

In practice, the need to avoid obscuring the role of the priest and the deacon as the ordinary ministers of Holy Communion by an excessive use of extraordinary minister might in some circumstances constitute a reason either for limiting the distribution of Holy Communion under both species or for using intinction instead of distributing the Precious Blood from the chalice.

I think is pretty self explanatory. The main problem as I see it is that not a small number of the faithful feel they not only have the absolute right to receive under both species, but that is in fact required. They feel deprived if the Chalice is not offered and that is just plain wrong. That demonstrates quite clearly to me that the majority of the people are not, as required, well instructed in the matter.

As far as not receiving under both species I see it as matter purely of personal choice. If it were offered via intinction I would do it, otherwise no.
 
In my wife’s country of origin, self-intinction is the accepted norm.
Which country would that be? I know it was done in many parishes over the years, including the one of which I’m a member, but that doesn’t mean that it’s allowed.
 
In my wife’s country of origin, self-intinction is the accepted norm.
“Accepted” by whom? The Church does not permit self-intinction. This is not an option that a local Ordinary can permit; the Church forbids it.
 
In my wife’s country of origin, self-intinction is the accepted norm.
Self Intinction is prohibited.
[104.] The communicant must not be permitted to intinct the host himself in the chalice, nor to receive the intincted host in the hand. As for the host to be used for the intinction, it should be made of valid matter, also consecrated; it is altogether forbidden to use non-consecrated bread or other matter.
Redemptionis Sacramentum
vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/ccdds/documents/rc_con_ccdds_doc_20040423_redemptionis-sacramentum_en.html

If they were doing it, they should have stopped when R.S. was issued.
 
The problem, as I see it, is if and when communion under both kinds is reduced, people will feel they’re being cheated of something, probably because there was never sound catechesis when the practice started. Do people know about concomitance, for example?
Yes, this is a problem with catechesis and it caused me some confusion and despair for a while a couple years back.

I asked the question to a priest, I won’t name names.
I asked him: During mass the bread becomes the Body of Christ and the wine becomes the Blood of Christ right? Also I’ve been taught that we receive all of Christ body, blood, soul and divinity even if we receive only the host or only the blood. This seems like a contradiction…if the the bread becomes only his body then how is it that the host is really the whole Christ Jesus?

So I asked him: “So really all of the bread must be transformed into the person of Christ, body blood soul and divinity and similarly with the wine, for us to receive him whole right”. And he sort of brushed me off by saying no, the Council of Trent (after he looked it up) says that all of the substance of the bread becomes his body only and similarly the wine becomes the blood only. He left it at that which didn’t help at all.

A member of the forum here told me about the explanation of concomitance, given to us by St. Thomas Aquinas…that Jesus is living…and for either his body or blood to exist on its own is impossible for Him to be our living Lord Jesus Christ. His body without his blood would be a dead body and Christ died once and does not die again during the mass or at any other time.

As I understand it, natural concomitance means that when the bread is trasformed into the body of Christ, the blood soul and divinity become naturally present as well since it is impossible for His body to exist alone without blood and soul and divinity.

Correct me if I’m wrong in my understanding.

I couldn’t find this explanation in any of the books I’ve read about the mass, even ones that attempt to expaling the consecration in some detail. I continue to find this very disappointing, that this is not taught, seemingly at all to anyone and that priests and learned authors would not know this and include some explanation of this otherwise seeming contradiction.

My understanding now is that the separate consecration of the blood and wine only symoblizes Christ’s death on the cross and when the priest takes a small piece of the host and puts into the wine, that this only symbolizes Christ’s resurrection and so in effect Jesus’ death and resurrection are re-presented to us at mass.

Again, correct me if I’m wrong in my understanding.

God bless,
Scott

PS this idea was explained well during the homily of daily mass on EWTN yesterday and I believe they have it available for download a few days after the mass.
 
PS this idea was explained well during the homily of daily mass on EWTN yesterday and I believe they have it available for download a few days after the mass.
I was mistaken, it was the mass of this past Friday where concomitance is explained. It is the only time I’ve heard this from any person who is speaking authoritatively as a Catholic teacher or author. I was absolutely deligthed to hear it.

click on:
ewtn.com/podcast/
and it’s the Friday mass you can download as an mp3

If you’re reading this after this week you can find it as April 11/08 daily mass here:
ewtn.com/vondemand/audio/series_index.asp?pgnu=6&T1=

and click on Today’s Homily (Archived homilies) and look for Apr 11/08

God bless,
Scott
 
Whether this is right or wrong, I don’t know. I am a teen, and I hate the taste of wine (I think my parents are kind of glad :D)… I would rather not take the Blood, than take it and think “Man, this is gross”.
 
So I asked him: “So really all of the bread must be transformed into the person of Christ, body blood soul and divinity and similarly with the wine, for us to receive him whole right”. And he sort of brushed me off by saying no, the Council of Trent (after he looked it up) says that all of the substance of the bread becomes his body only and similarly the wine becomes the blood only. He left it at that which didn’t help at all.
The priest incorrectly (or incompletely) read Trent. From Trent, Session 13, Chapter III (On the excellency of the most holy Eucharist over the rest of the Sacraments):
And this faith has ever been in the Church of God, that, immediately after the consecration, the veritable Body of our Lord, and His veritable Blood, together with His soul and divinity, are under the species of bread and wine; but the Body indeed under the species of bread, and the Blood under the species of wine, by the force of the words; but the body itself under the species of wine, and the blood under the species of bread, and the soul under both, by the force of that natural connexion and concomitancy whereby the parts of Christ our Lord, who hath now risen from the dead, to die no more, are united together; and the divinity, furthermore, on account of the admirable hypostatical union thereof with His body and soul.

Wherefore it is most true, that as much is contained under either species as under both; for Christ whole and entire is under the species of bread, and under any part whatsoever of that species; likewise the whole (Christ) is under the species of wine, and under the parts thereof.
So then, the bread, once consecrated, is a sign of the Precious Body, and the wine, once consecrated, is a sign of the Precious Blood, but they are both, in fact, the complete, whole Christ.
A member of the forum here told me about the explanation of concomitance, given to us by St. Thomas Aquinas…that Jesus is living…and for either his body or blood to exist on its own is impossible for Him to be our living Lord Jesus Christ. His body without his blood would be a dead body and Christ died once and does not die again during the mass or at any other time.
That sounds familiar to me, although I am not well-versed in Aquinas; but it certainly sounds right.
As I understand it, natural concomitance means that when the bread is trasformed into the body of Christ, the blood soul and divinity become naturally present as well since it is impossible for His body to exist alone without blood and soul and divinity.
That is what Trent taught: “that natural connexion and concomitancy whereby the parts of Christ our Lord, who hath now risen from the dead, to die no more, are united together”
I couldn’t find this explanation in any of the books I’ve read about the mass, even ones that attempt to expaling the consecration in some detail. I continue to find this very disappointing, that this is not taught, seemingly at all to anyone and that priests and learned authors would not know this and include some explanation of this otherwise seeming contradiction.
You and me both. I make it a point, in RCIA, when I am leading the lesson on the Eucharist, to make this point of concomitance. It might seem to be a bit much (it’s a heady subject!) but it must be known, if not understood.
My understanding now is that the separate consecration of the blood and wine only symoblizes Christ’s death on the cross and when the priest takes a small piece of the host and puts into the wine, that this only symbolizes Christ’s resurrection and so in effect Jesus’ death and resurrection are re-presented to us at mass.
Since Christ is not re-crucified at Mass, you are correct that the separate consecration is a symbol (although I would use the term “sign” or the phrase “sacramental presentation” to avoid misunderstands that arise from using the word “symbol” in close proximity to the Eucharist) of the physical reality of Christ’s death – that his body and blood were indeed separated, that he truly humanly died. Likewise, the mingling of the Host with the Chalice is a sign of the Resurrection; which then, I would suppose, makes it a profession of concomitance: the physical mingling of the Host and Chalice as an expression of our belief that the Body and Blood (and Soul and Divinity) of Jesus Christ are eternally united.

Glad to help support you in your faith. Benedicite!
 
Hi Japhy!

Thanks for your clarifications and additional information about the council of Trent and the distinction between symbol and sign and everything else. I agree.

Perhaps we can pray that this may be taught to those who need to hear it.

God bless you,
Scott
 
Thanks for your clarifications and additional information about the council of Trent and the distinction between symbol and sign and everything else. I agree. Perhaps we can pray that this may be taught to those who need to hear it.

God bless you,
Scott
Thank you. 🙂 I’m working on an instructional and catechetical guide to the Mass and Scripture, and when I get to the Eucharist, there will be plenty of didactic instruction of this sort. I’ll make sure to alert CAF to its whereabouts when I have it completed.
 
I have a question about this. Isn’t it self communicating? At least at my church the people each hold the cup themselves.
 
I have a question about this. Isn’t it self communicating? At least at my church the people each hold the cup themselves.
It is far safer to hold the Chalice and drink from it yourself than to have someone standing in front of you place it to your lips and tip it.

But this is not the only way to receive from the Chalice. Use of a metal straw or spoon are possible, but not customary in the Latin Rite dioceses of the US. Use of intinction, however, is a viable and practical option.
 
I’m not asking if it’s easier. I don’t take it. I was just wondering if it was self communication.
 
I’m not asking if it’s easier. I don’t take it. I was just wondering if it was self communication.
Juridically speaking, since the Church does not permit self-communication by the laity, no, it is not. Self-communication of the Precious Blood would be taking the chalice without someone offering it you; it is for this reason that a lay person may not take the chalice from the altar, but must have it presented to them by a minister of Holy Communion.

Juridically speaking, Communion in the hand is not self-communication either (but taking a Host from the paten yourself would be).

However, there’s more than just the juridical understanding… theologically, you could argue that Communion in the hand and drinking from the chalice yourself are self-communication.
 
Speaking for myself. We partake of Holy Communion of both kinds. Reason being is that Christ didn’t say: “Take, eat, this is my body…” and end it there. He told us to eat AND drink his body and blood. But, I can see the reason for not drinking the wine (due to contagious illness or such).

Why did the Atheist cross the road?

He didn’t. His worldview fails to ground
the Logical Law of non-contradiction. So for the
consistent atheist, the other side doesn’t exist.
:dancing:
 
I’m willing to die from germs in the cup because I love Jesus.

Is love like that OK?
 
Jesus’s blood is fully present in the bread. i don’t see any reason to recieve the cup considering the wine is probably mixed with everyone’s saliva.
 
Lately I have not being receiving the blood. Our communion goes very fast, we don’t have a large church so it doesn’t take very long to perform the sacrament, maybe 10 minutes. And the lines for the precious blood are always long. I find that if I do receive it, by the time I get back to the pew communion is almost over. I like to have time to pray after I receive. If I wait in the line for the precious blood, I have no time to pray.
 
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