Why Are the Fervent Catholics usually Converts or Reverts?

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Kudos to you Dan Man. One thing that’s kept me involved with Opus Dei is the faith uncompromised. It will hurt but the truth will set one free. Years down the line, this pruning that you received will bear fruit. It kinda reminds me of Pope Benedict’s dictum: Love without truth is blind and truth without love is a clashing cymbal.

in XT.
 
I think one of the factors contributing to the fervor of many converts and reverts is the “wow” factor. Let me explain by telling my story: I grew up in the 70s, and attended a Catholic grade school. The religious ed materials were all about loving everybody and multiculturalism. I remember lots of pretty photographs and learning about reincarnation (never contrasted with Christianity or disputed, by the way), and made lots of collages. My parents were observant but not fervent. So, it was easy to leave…I became an atheist for a while, probably because my stupid 18-year-old brain thought that Ayn Rand was really on to something (a thought that strikes me as hilarious now). When I realized the foolishness of that, I became a Protestant for a while because, oh, there was nothing in the Catholic Church for me. It’s always satisfying to pronounce judgement on a whole institution, regardless of one’s ignorance of it—it makes one feel like a real rebel, independent and intellectually superior. But when I rediscovered the Church, it was—WOW! I never knew what what there. I had no idea. I have to admit that I have even felt more than a little angry for not being told about the treasure that is our Church, though of course we are all called to seek the truth. So, I think that some—some, not all—cradle Catholics have simply absorbed these treasures and perhaps they lack the wow factor. They’re used to it. At some point we were thinking of buying some land in South Dakota, and were a little surprised to find out how important water is—I mean, having water on one’s property (meaning, reachable with a well) was a real plus and was reflected in the price. Cisterns were common. Coming from Minnesota, where water availablity is a given and is just not even thought of, it was a bit of a surprise. It’s easy to take for granted the living waters of Christ’s Church if you have always had them available. Chesterton was tireless in his insistence that we need to regard the commonplace with wonder, and was a good example of someone who practiced what he preached.

I do know some very fervent cradle Catholics, however.
 
Convert, re-vert or cradle Catholic, those who are fervent Catholics are those who are madly in love with God. They hunger for the ‘Beloved’ and can’t wait to tell others about Him and His perfections.

I recognised this when my eldest daughter ‘fell in love’. She couldn’t eat, couldn’t sleep, kept telling me (before I had met him) , and everyone, how wonderful he is, and she walked around with a ‘glow’ about her.

Sound familiar. When Catholics are on fire with love for God, we are like this.
 
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Melchior:
Because Rome has lost it’s evangelical zeal and God seems to be using the Evangelical love of the Gospel to “fix” people up and bring them into, or back into the church to inject some life back into it.

This is why Catholics should be grateful for the Protestant Reformation. Catholics, by and large, simply do not know what it is like to be completely committed to Christ the way Evangelicals and traditional Reformed Christians do.

To be even more blunt, the best Christians are outside of the Church, but trickling back in. Why are they better mainly because the read and study the Bible ferevntly and take it very seriously. They also have a personal relationship with Christ. Not many Catholics live this way. I know this because I grew up in the Archdiocese of Boston with over a half dozen nominal Catholic siblings. We have one of the largest Catholic populations in the U.S. so my anecdotal evidence is extremely strong. 😉

Mel
I hate to admit it but I was just about to pounce all over Mel here especially for his opening line. I do not agree that Rome has lost its Zeal, far from it and in fact I see it stronger than ever and that is why I reverted beack Home. However the rest of your post is 100% bang on correct!! This is unfortunate but my wife and I had to first become on fire, evangelical protestants to become on fire, evangelical catholics. We were in our early twenties in 1989, wanting so much to love and serve God. Full of questions and looking for someone to lead us, but it came through a born again protestant business associate and not through a catholic.
 
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Melchior:
Because Rome has lost it’s evangelical zeal and God seems to be using the Evangelical love of the Gospel to “fix” people up and bring them into, or back into the church to inject some life back into it.

This is why Catholics should be grateful for the Protestant Reformation. Catholics, by and large, simply do not know what it is like to be completely committed to Christ the way Evangelicals and traditional Reformed Christians do.

To be even more blunt, the best Christians are outside of the Church, but trickling back in. Why are they better mainly because the read and study the Bible ferevntly and take it very seriously. They also have a personal relationship with Christ. Not many Catholics live this way. I know this because I grew up in the Archdiocese of Boston with over a half dozen nominal Catholic siblings. We have one of the largest Catholic populations in the U.S. so my anecdotal evidence is extremely strong. 😉

Mel
Garbage. If they knew the Gospel and really loved Christ they would take to heart his sayings such as “if you love Me keep My commandments”, “he who rejects you [the Apostles] rejects Me”. How can you have a superior personal relationship with Christ yet reject the Church He founded and make up your own rules?
 
Aquinas,

I look back and can’t believe that i partially blamed Opus dei for ushering me out of the Church when it was my own pride.
It really was only grace that brought me back through the ministering and patience of many Catholic friends who put up with my rants about how unfair the Church was.

And believe it or not, there were 2 things that really put things in perspective for me. I had a friend ask me what my faith was worth to me, and 2 weeks later, i was denied communion from a priest at a mass i went to with my family.
Well, let me tell you that i was mad as hell that i was denied communion. But what that friend said made sense, what was my faith worth to me, what was the Eucharist worth to me (I always believed in the real presence, even as an evangelical).

Sure, i could silently receive communion from an EME who didn’t know me and no one would be the wiser. But that priest made it real for me, and it was because of that “kick in the pants” that i had to honestly look at my pride.
Sometimes the most valuable lessons that make us the most devout are the lessons that are hard ones.
I’m glad that priest told me no, because it was becuase of that pivotal time, that i seriously dealt with my pride and sin thginking i could have Jesus on my own terms and with my own lifesstyle choices that were not pleasing to God.

I think that i am Catholic today because of the grace that came from that no. and a powerful grace it was. and i think many reverts have had those kinds of experiences that end up bringing us back into the Church with passion.
 
As a response to Melchoir post about Rome “losing it’s evangelical zeal” it’s amazing to me that as a revert, I don’t see that happening anymore. As a cradle catholic, the Church and the Magisterium seemed to be talking “past” me - I heard their words, but I didn’t really “hear.” By rededicating my life to Christ, whenever Rome speaks, I see the zeal, I see the sound teachings, I see the passion that the Church embodies in the Word of God. They’ve been doing it the whole time - I just didn’t catch it back then! 👍
 
Why Are the Fervent Catholics usually Converts or Reverts?

Because we succombed to the power of the Dark side of the force. We saw the light and came home to the body of Christ, His Catholic Church! We are passionate to keep others away from the Dark side of the force now.

Seeing the love and fun and games of the Protestant/JW/LDS sects makes them seem like they are great from the outside. When you are in one you see the kids go to AWANA meetings not to learn scripture but to play the pinball machine. Parents go to Sunday school to make arrangements for thier parties. Worship service is a motivational speach that needs to be repeated weekly lest one read Scripture and find out your sect doesn’t follow it (emotion overrides the brain). Closing mega-churches on Christmas is good. Soon they’ll have to close on Sundays too since that is also a ‘family’ day? No training is needed to be a preacher (OK, motivational speaking is a plus - Southern draw a bounus - repeating things three times and screaming and crying is good technique with atheletic ability). Just preach health and wealth and God loves us all and we love Him and ignore the rest of the Bible or tough moral questions.:whacky:

I’ll take a monotone, boring very old half-dead already priest that opposes abortion, female clergy, assited suicide, birth control, faith alone, bible alone, porography, homosexuality, schism, selfinterpretation, etc. anyday.

There may not be very many Catholics that love God more then the Protestants do. They have a true love for God and zeal that many Catholics could use and learn from. But then, did God tell us just to love Him or to be Faithful and obedient to Him also? Faith, Hope and Love. Faith is continued obedience. Hope is NOT assurance. Love is everything we do, not just singing about it.

I love my wife but I still have a job, help with the kids, do yard work, fix problems with the house, etc… How long would my wife keep me if I just said I loved her then sat my bottom on the couch and read the Bible and talked about it with my church budies and never worked, did chors, helped with the kids, etc… My wife would just say I my love her - but I sure don’t show it!
 
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Tonks40:
As a response to Melchoir post about Rome “losing it’s evangelical zeal” it’s amazing to me that as a revert, I don’t see that happening anymore. As a cradle catholic, the Church and the Magisterium seemed to be talking “past” me - I heard their words, but I didn’t really “hear.” By rededicating my life to Christ, whenever Rome speaks, I see the zeal, I see the sound teachings, I see the passion that the Church embodies in the Word of God. They’ve been doing it the whole time - I just didn’t catch it back then!
:thumbsup:Very well put Tonks. I couldn’t’ve said it better! Sums up my own experience exactly!
Thank you!
Pax tecum,
 
Because many of us cradle Catholics have taken too many things for granted. We were not fully taught some things and therefore we were lost once our teaching ended after confirmation. THis means we have very few programs for Catholics that teach or reteach our faith once you are in your 20’s and up. It is these converts or reverts who see it from new eyes and enliven the rest of us to what we have been taking for granted.

At my church we have begun a program to help this problem. It is slowly growing, and I am amazed by all of the people who tell me they wish they had something like this near them.
 
Malachi4U, Wow!. All I can say is Wow! That was one powerful statement. I agree with you. God Bless and have a great Christmas.
 
Cradle Catholic here, wanting to pay tribute to my fervent Cradle Catholic Family!
  • bows a respectful greeting *
My cradle-Catholic parents and grandparents have always shown loyalty to the Pope and the teachings of the Catholic Church. My mother and grandparents in particular have spoken up or published articles to defend the Catholic Faith, knowing full well that they risked persecution. As my grandma would say, “It’s more important to be popular with God than with men.” My mother would receive harrassing telephone calls after she wrote letters to the editor in support of such topics as the pro-life movement or the Pope, including Pope Paul VI’s stand on birth control as written in the encyclical Humanae Vitae. (I learned the phrase “Humanae Vitae” as a young teen.)

Both mom and grandma taught catechetics (CCD class), and always taught the Truth in all its fullness and beauty to the best of their ability … despite the opposition. I also taught CCD for a year, and made sure to bring in the Catechism of the Catholic Church to teach from when I was informed that the students allegedly would not read from a textbook and thus no textbook reading assignments had been provided for them. Felt like being in the catacombs, but it was my honor-bound duty to see to it that the kids in my Confirmation Class actually learned something meaningful rather than sitting around drawing posters of doves or tongues of fire. Believe me, the students all sat up straight with rapt attention when I placed the Catechism squarely on the table and announced, “Today we will discuss MORTAL SIN. I will define it by reading from the Catechism, give you a list of common mortal sins, and then I will answer any question you wish to throw at me, using the Catechism as a reference.”

And you know? When illness or other trouble struck our family, there was a hugely comforting feeling of, “It’s going to be all right, because grandma is praying about it.” And then the other hugely comforting feeling of just being able to count on dad and grampa being there for the family, quietly and humbly working like St. Joseph, and just as important, always ready to share good times. And being able to go to mom with spiritual questions, as though she were a professional spiritual director or advisor.

I also claim as my own Father Charles, a retired missionary priest who is a distant relative. So full of joy, and like a little child when Pope Benedict’s World Youth Day Mass was televised. When the Pope would pray in Latin, Father Charles would happily pray along with him, giving the proper responses, and making the sign of the cross with a touching enthusiasm. I think Father Charles will be a saint, because at our last meeting, he begged me very earnestly to please not send him money, because the retirement home was seeing to all of his needs … he is one of the Lord’s beautiful, trusting, humble little ones. He puts his whole heart into saying the Divine Office, gets up before dawn to read the Bible and prepare sermons, takes walks at various times of day to pray in beautiful solitude (though once I had the honor of being invited to walk and pray the Rosary with him) … and puts his whole heart into the Act of Consecration at Mass and then receiving Our Eucharistic Lord in Communion.

I owe a tremendous debt of gratitude as a cradle Catholic for having been brought up in a family of cradle Catholics obedient to, and loving towards, the Pope !!! 🙂 :o 🙂

~~ the phoenix
 
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Photini:
This has been very difficult for me to understand!

I’ve been listening to some wonderful Catholic radio programs, but it turns out, as I learn the stories behind the speakers, they all seem to be converts, or in some cases, reverts to Roman Catholicism. I’m discovering the same thing about the authors of many current excellent books on our Faith.

Additionally, I must look at my own faith journey. I don’t believe I was properly evangelized until I left the Church, and even then, it was through a Protestant.

To make an incredibly long story short, it wasn’t until I spent over a decade in Protestant “Evangelicalism” that I was able to “get” the Mass, long for the Sacraments of Reconciliation and the Holy Eucharist, and eventually decide to come back.

Help! Anybody have any insights on this?

Blessings to you and your families this Advent Season.
It takes an ACT OF GOD to set us Catholics on fire.
and when that happens, we discover the secret that God wants us to Worship Him in Spirit and in Truth.
that is
To Love Him and serve Him VOLUNTARILY…
(Pre-meditated Worship)
rather than as an “obligation”.

gusano
 
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BlackKnight:
Sorry Dude, but this is BALONEY. People may have lost their zeal, but “Rome” meaning the church, has done no such thing. The “reformation” was/is a disaster of errant doctrine that IMO has done grave harm to Christianity for the last 500 years. Most converts and reverts will probably agree with me on that.

The best Christians are within the Catholic Church, because they are not roaming around being their own popes and teaching errors.
Well thanks for engaging my examples. You are living in a fantasy world if you think the average catholic is as committed a christian as the average Evangelical. I honestly believe you have the better doctrine but nominalism is a far bigger problem in the catholic church. I have spent years in both. Have you?

Plus any honest catholic, who knows history anyway, will admit that the Reformation was as much the Churches fault as the Reformers. There were real abuses and even Popes have admitted it. That is why you hads a counter reformation.

Mel
 
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mastda:
I hate to admit it but I was just about to pounce all over Mel here especially for his opening line. I do not agree that Rome has lost its Zeal, far from it and in fact I see it stronger than ever and that is why I reverted beack Home. However the rest of your post is 100% bang on correct!! This is unfortunate but my wife and I had to first become on fire, evangelical protestants to become on fire, evangelical catholics. We were in our early twenties in 1989, wanting so much to love and serve God. Full of questions and looking for someone to lead us, but it came through a born again protestant business associate and not through a catholic.
I will admit that my opening line was not very good. I should have said that the American Catholic church, due to many factors such as the confusion of implementing VII liturgical changes and catachesis, to cultural catholicism in areas such as mine - to the influx of liberal and homosexual clergy into lax seminaries in the 60’s and 70’s who subverted local parishes in many ways etc. has made things tough for the Amrican Catholic church.

I left as a kid because my priests and CCD teachers were so ill equiped they could not answer the question that tormented me “How can I go to Heaven” the negelect I and other received are inexcusable and we were forced to go elsewhere. This does not mean the Catholic Church is not the Church. But when I child is negelcted by their parents sometimes they have to go to a foster home until their parents can get their act together. They are still their parents but sometime a parent can harm their child greatly.

Mel
 
Also Blacknight,

You really have no business saying that I am full of baloney. Do you really want to defend my Archdiocese and the Bishop who confrimed me, Cardinal Bernie Law? Some folks need to get their head out of the sand. Because what was done on a wide scale to parishoners here in Boston was satanic. I know a guy who died very young two years as the indirect result of the hell that was inflicted upon him by one of the many evil perverts who were “zealous” but not for the gospel. Do you know how many dedicated Catholics left the church after that? How could you trust anyone up here? I just read a sad obituary about a lady who died in our town. And it said she was a dedicated life long Catholic who served the church and the poor her whole life. Well even she stopped going to church as she was so devistated. She di not give up her faith - only she was too disgusted and traumatized to trust any local priest.

When I was 10 we moved from one City to a town 30 miles away. To my mothers great joy the priest who baptized my oldest sister some 30+ years earlier was at our new Parish. Well a week later the headline for local paper was about a 70 year old priest arrested in a local park for engaging in homosexual acts in a local park.

Sometimes people are forced to leave abusive parents even though they ar their legitimate parents. If you grow up surrounded by Catholics who who live like pagans and then you meet other Christians who are completely committed to Christ and who show you the love of Christ and embrace you and teach you would have left too.

I even had a popular priest down South say this in an email to me: “The Archdiocese of Boston is one of the most corrupt and spiritually dead places in the Catholic Church, and this has been true for decades.”

Does that carry more weight with you?

Mel
 
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Melchior:
Well thanks for engaging my examples.
**You are living in a fantasy world if you think the average catholic is as committed a christian as the average Evangelical.

I honestly believe you have the better doctrine **

but nominalism is a far bigger problem in the catholic church. I have spent years in both. Have you?

Plus any honest catholic, who knows history anyway, will admit that the Reformation was as much the Churches fault as the Reformers. There were real abuses and even Popes have admitted it. That is why you hads a counter reformation.

Mel
I will have to agree with you Mel,
On the surface the average Evangelical is more committed to his religios system than The average Cathilic to his.
But the problem is, Evangelicals are committed to** “wood, hay, and stubble”**
While Catholics are committed to The New Covenant, which the reformers threw away when they got rid of
the Altars, The Priesthood, the Sacraments, and all that is required to keep The New Covenant in place.

That is why The Catholic Church has a “Better Doctrine.”

We Catholics don’t have to “try as hard” to make wood, hay, and straw attractive…
We just get in (into our Baptism) and enjoy the Journey.

gusano
 
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gusano:
I will have to agree with you Mel,
On the surface the average Evangelical is more committed to his religios system than The average Cathilic to his.
But the problem is, Evangelicals are committed to** “wood, hay, and stubble”**
While Catholics are committed to The New Covenant, which the reformers threw away when they got rid of
the Altars, The Priesthood, the Sacraments, and all that is required to keep The New Covenant in place.

That is why The Catholic Church has a “Better Doctrine.”

We Catholics don’t have to “try as hard” to make wood, hay, and straw attractive…
We just get in (into our Baptism) and enjoy the Journey.

gusano
I agree to a point. But I would be careful to call the lilves of Baptized Christians wood, hay and stubble. Certainly they are missing much. But if the Church affords virtuous unbelievers the posibility of saving Grace then I would think misguided Christians have much much more. Even the Pope says that Lutheran and Anglican Eucharists are a spiritual participation in Christ. Protestants, if they are seperated, brethren have much of the truth, scripture, baptism, prayer, the Creeds and a spiritual Eucahrist. Far from wood, hnay and stubble. That would describe the unbaptized and their completely false religions such as Islam, Hinduism and Buddhism.

Mel
 
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Melchior:
I agree to a point. But I would be careful to call the lilves of Baptized Christians wood, hay and stubble. Certainly they are missing much. But if the Church affords virtuous unbelievers the posibility of saving Grace then I would think misguided Christians have much much more. Even the Pope says that Lutheran and Anglican Eucharists are a spiritual participation in Christ. Protestants, if they are seperated, brethren have much of the truth, scripture, baptism, prayer, the Creeds and a spiritual Eucahrist. Far from wood, hnay and stubble. That would describe the unbaptized and their completely false religions such as Islam, Hinduism and Buddhism.

Mel
I think Gus is referring to the biblical passage that supports purgatory: And each man’s work will be tested with fire…those who have built on the foundation with wood, hay, and straw, will suffer much loss and their work will be burned up though the themselves will be saved but only as one who escapes the flames." This would be the Protestant religions and very well could be some Catholics who are nominal in their faith. I think the unbaptized and the false religions have something completley different to face…
 
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