Why are the Hobbit books considered edifying and Harry Potter books are considered "satanic"?

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First, I think Harry Potter is fine. But there are differences. Tolkien was a devout Catholic and that permeated his book’s themes and motifs. Also, Gandalf wasn’t a man or an elf. Gandalf, Sauron, Saruman, etc… are all Tolkien’s equivalent of angels created by God.

Also, whereas Middle Earth is a removed fantasy lands (even if there are suggestions of it being ancient Earth) Harry Potter is set in a relatively modern setting in the “real world” with “real children” and does involve forbidden practices such as divinization, even if Rowling just put a bunch of mumbo jumbo around it. And also presented “real witches” in the “real world” (not a made up alternate world) as benevolent and persecuted, which means even if she didn’t mention that she is putting witchcraft in the context of Judeo-Christian history as being fine, that there is such a thing as “good magic” in the “real world.”
 
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Just to clear a few things up for those who do not know there JRRT stuff, there is only one Hobbit book, The Hobbit, which is written as a children’s tale, bearing little resemblance in tone to the movie or the other works of Tolkien. The rest of Tolkien’s work are stories, but hardly just stories. They contain multiple languages with their own grammar and syntax, devised by a scholar in languages. Their mythology is complex, reflecting both the investment of time in them, as well as knowledge of European mythology. They are a scholarly work, as well as a tale. J K Rowling is an excellent author, but she did not invest either the time nor the scholarship in her work the Tolkien did.

The complaints about magic are always a caution, but it is not something the Church condemns. Yes, there are some in the Church that see this sort of story as problematic, but that’s about the most anyone can say. Likewise, the story of Harry Potter has redeeming qualities, like that of friendship and sacrifice, two things also seen in the LOTR.

Of course the LOTR is a Catholic tale. It could not be otherwise. Catholicism was as much a part of the author as was the love of language and myth. When a long tale was told, who the author was became a part of the tale. Tolkien hated allegory, so he did not set out to create a Christ figure like Aslan, but he could not avoid it and tell a tale that was his tale. Frodo had to lose the land for which he gave all. The greatest strength had to be found in weakness, not because of deliberate imagery, but because of the beliefs of the author about the nature of what is true.
 
If you can find Tolkien making these claims the LOTR or the Hobbit is a catholic tale, please paste a link. Tolkien constructed several different languages since he was around 13. There are thousands of constructed languages, I at one time spoke one, esperanto.

He is on record for saying his stories are just stories. There is no special meaning behind them. They are meant to be read and enjoyed for what they are.
 
I first read Tolkien in 1965, the LOTR in the Ace pb edition, beginning a roughly 55 year hobby of reading and collecting him, and studies on his work, inter alia.

BlueMaxx quotes him above. Didn’t you notice? It’s taken from THE LETTERS OF J.R. R. TOLKIEN, ltr. 142, p. 172. And it’s obviously a reference to the RCC and his RC faith. And BlueMaxx paraphrases other portions of it. The letter is written to Fr. Robert Murray, S.J.
 
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phil3 said:
If you can find Tolkien making these claims the LOTR or the Hobbit is a catholic tale, please paste a link.
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I did not say he did make such a claim. But they are what they are, and he is who he is.
 
And I said that if RKJ was catholic we wouldnt be having this discussion. In 75 years people would be claiming that HP held all types of catholic meanings
 
Winnie the Pooh…Piglet…Tigger…Eeyore… are talking animals…could it be they are demon possessed…we should stop reading them to our kids.
 
phil3 said:
Tolken said that his stories were just stories. Nothing more.
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Again, in his own words…

As Tolkien stated in his own words…

The Lord of the Rings is of course a fundamentally religious and Catholic work; unconsciously so at first, but consciously in the revision. That is why I have not put in, or have cut out, practically all references to anything like ‘religion’, to cults or practices, in the imaginary world. For the religious element is absorbed into the story and the symbolism. However that is very clumsily put, and sounds more self-important than I feel. For as a matter of fact, I have consciously planned very little; and should chiefly be grateful for having been brought up (since I was eight) in a Faith that has nourished me and taught me all the little that I know; and that I owe to my mother, who clung to her conversion and died young, largely through the hardships of poverty resulting from it.
 
phil3 said:
If you can find Tolkien making these claims the LOTR or the Hobbit is a catholic tale, please paste a link. Tolkien constructed several different languages since he was around 13. There are thousands of constructed languages, I at one time spoke one, esperanto.

He is on record for saying his stories are just stories. There is no special meaning behind them. They are meant to be read and enjoyed for what they are.
Click to expand...
As Tolkien stated in his own words…

The Lord of the Rings is of course a fundamentally religious and Catholic work; unconsciously so at first, but consciously in the revision. That is why I have not put in, or have cut out, practically all references to anything like ‘religion’, to cults or practices, in the imaginary world. For the religious element is absorbed into the story and the symbolism. However that is very clumsily put, and sounds more self-important than I feel. For as a matter of fact, I have consciously planned very little; and should chiefly be grateful for having been brought up (since I was eight) in a Faith that has nourished me and taught me all the little that I know; and that I owe to my mother, who clung to her conversion and died young, largely through the hardships of poverty resulting from it.
 
And I feel like my point that Tolkien was set in an alternate world where humans pretty much aren’t the ones using magic (it being rather unnatural to them) vs. Harry Potter where human adults and children practice magic in what’s supposed to be our world (with the claim that there can be good magic in our world and the use of practices like divination) was glossed over by phil.
 
Yes, if there were clear reflections of that in the book, I would agree, though I still do not put the books on the same level. Both are of value, but it is like comparing a symphony with a jingle; a life’s work versus a years work.

I think it important to understand too that Tolkien wasn’t just a Catholic. His faith was as central to him as it was to C. S. Lewis. I would not mistake his basic humility and self-abasement over his work as anything but embarrassment at a many whose career was not writing, when he managed to write what is arguable the one of the greatest works of the century, if not the greatest.

I do not mean to detract in any way from Rowling. She is an author, and a good one, but that is what she is. She turns out good materiel with solid moral lessons. But I believe the two to be apples and oranges.
 
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Well, then let’s go a brand new direction and start a new rumor. Tolkien was really a socialist. The poor simply hobbit had to steal from the evil dragon who had taken all the wealth unto himself, leaving his surrounding community in poverty. When his successor came (Thorin), it took an armed revolt to even distribute all the accumulated wealth.

It is an economic allegory. Just follow the money.
 
There’s a huge (unpaid) market for crossover fan fiction on the Internet. I actually once invested more time than I care to admit reading a very lengthy (500 000 words or so if memory serves) and surprisingly well written Stargate / Harry Potter crossover…if you wade through thousands of poorly written pieces of electronic rubbish, you can find unexpected gems.
 
Or one could imagine Kull saying it. If “By This Axe I Rule” included “The Road of Kings”.

But oddly compelling.
 
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