Why are the New Age movement and other exotic ideas so attractive?

[AntiTheist]

I will pray for you.

There’s an old atheist saying: you pray for me, and I’ll think for you.

In the mean time, would you admit that there is at least a possiblitiy that it is you who are deluded?

There’s a possibility in the same sense that virtually anything could be possible, but I think the odds that I actually am deluded are exceedingly low. This is because I base my thinking on evidence and reason.

Consider: there are hundreds (thousands?) of religions and “spiritual beliefs” in the world, all of which make incredibly different claims and all of which couldn’t be true at the same time. All of them could be argued to be beliefs that serve to “spice up” life, and all of them have at least some members who have had “internal experiences” that confirm their beliefs.

So there are only two mutually exclusive options:

1. One single one of these thousands of religions is the correct one, which means that every other single religious person (and “spiritual person”) is deluding themselves.

or

1. None of them are correct, and all religious people (and “spiritual people”) are deluding themselves.

Now, this dichotomy doesn’t at all prove that there’s no god(s), but it does make it clear that every religious/spiritual person believes that every other religious/spiritual person, except those in one special group, is “deluded.” Atheists just go one step further: maybe they’re all deluded.

 

[Edward_H]

So there are only two mutually exclusive options:

1. One single one of these thousands of religions is the correct one, which means that every other single religious person (and “spiritual person”) is deluding themselves.

or

1. None of them are correct, and all religious people (and “spiritual people”) are deluding themselves.

Actually, no. Some religions could be approaching the same Truth. Some could be stalled in their pursuit of Truth. Some could be heading away from Truth. And one religion might be closest to the Truth.

 

[Richard_Kastner]

Atheists just go one step further:** maybe they’re all** deluded.

Do they include themselves in this speculation?

 

[Richard_Kastner]

So, you’re committed to being noncommittal. Could you at least explain what you mean by
“although we have “piggybacked” onto the Jewish Messiah; and such things as ritual sacrifice, which are now impossible for everybody, given the Temple is no more.”

Who or what is the “Jewish Messiah”?

 

[GEddie]

So, you’re committed to being noncommittal. Could you at least explain what you mean by
“although we have “piggybacked” onto the Jewish Messiah; and such things as ritual sacrifice, which are now impossible for everybody, given the Temple is no more.”

Who or what is the “Jewish Messiah”?

Our LORD, of course. Although current Judaism, does not accept HIM.

There was conflict just after HIS time as to how much Judaism non-Jewish converts had to take on to “become Christian.” This would not have been an issue had HE, and HIS followers, not been understood as being a Messianic branch of Judaism.

Those of us who are not genealogically Jewish have, in effect, piggybacked onto HIM. HE was sent to “the lost sheep of the House of Israel” (Mt 15:24).

All I meant after the “;” was that the Law, in its entirety, is unkeepable now, because it requires Temple observances that have been impossible for over 1900 years.

And, BTW, kosher is just a modern term for clean vss. unclean. And in relation to the church, it was dealt with in the Acts of the Apostles.

God Bless and ICXC NIKA.

 

[Richard_Kastner]

Ya, sorry. You were this one.

Originally Posted by (name removed by moderator)
In a hodge podge borrow and chop and paste style with no consistency yes. Ultimately although we respect as Catholcis that Jews worship the same god as ourselves Christ fullfilled the old law and we no longer live under it.

You still refuse to explain what you mean by “Christ fullfilled the old law and we no longer live under it.”? Are you saying that the ten commandments have been done away with?

 

[Richard_Kastner]

Our LORD, of course. Although current Judaism, does not accept HIM.

There was conflict just after HIS time as to how much Judaism non-Jewish converts had to take on to “become Christian.” This would not have been an issue had HE, and HIS followers, not been understood as being a Messianic branch of Judaism.

You don’t think that all of Judaism were Messianic? Weren’t they all looking for the Messiah?

Those of us who are not genealogically Jewish have, in effect, piggybacked onto HIM. HE was sent to “the lost sheep of the House of Israel” (Mt 15:24).

I don’t know about this one. I believe Jesus was sent to the world, to save all mankind. Jn.3:16For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. I think that there is a misunderstanding of what is meant by “the lost sheep of the House of Israel” in this v.
Matt.15:24But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Paul explains in Rom.9:4Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;
5Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.
6Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
7Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

This is saying that all those that are ethnic Jews are not necessarily the children of God, but those that believe in Jesus Christ are.

All I meant after the “;” was that the Law, in its entirety, is unkeepable now, because it requires Temple observances that have been impossible for over 1900 years.

But you seem to lump a bunch of divers things together with the ritual law, like clean and unclean, which by the way is not the same as kosher, and the Sabbath which is one of the ten commandments. The ritual law of the sacrifices was done away with after the cross because Jesus was the perfect Lamb of God. But if you say the Sabbath was done away with aren’t you saying the Ten Commandments are done away with?

And, BTW, kosher is just a modern term for clean vss. unclean. And in relation to the church, it was dealt with in the Acts of the Apostles.

God Bless and ICXC NIKA.

Kosher is a fairly modern man made evolution of God’s commandments of clean and unclean. These laws contained many things that were not in God’s law. Jesus had something to say about these laws in Mark 7.

 

[Richard_Kastner]

Why would you think the laws of clean and unclean are done away with. Aren’t these health laws and if it was unhealthy for Noah to eat unclean things isn’t it unhealthy for us?

BTW I think I’m getting a nibble.

 

[Richard_Kastner]

BTW if the ten commandments are still in force why don’t you keep the Sabbath?

 

[mark_avery]

It was not so much the apple on the tree in the garden of eden that was the problem, but more so the pear on the ground.

With all the good intentions in the world, the old adage that you can lead a horse to the water but you can not make it drink, would seem to still stand.Especially with the ever increasing factions and toys so to speak,that there are now days, to occupy the mind with.

If you hate your life you can keep it,is not so appealing…

 

[GEddie]

If you hate your life you can keep it,is not so appealing…

???

I doubt most non-suicides “hate their life.” What are you referring to??

 

[Richard_Kastner]

So you’re not going to answer the question?

 

[Sufjon]

Now, this dichotomy doesn’t at all prove that there’s no god(s), but it does make it clear that every religious/spiritual person believes that every other religious/spiritual person, except those in one special group, is “deluded.” Atheists just go one step further: maybe they’re all deluded.

My faith doesn’t think the others are deluded, except perhaps in their delusion of believing that all others are wrong. What each person perceives to be God, or lack thereof are just synapses of the mind. They are not God. They are perceptions. Each person has their own experience, and each experience is valid as an experience. Since God is present in all things, these experiences or synapses of the mind are epiphenomenon of God as well, and in being so, are valid, even if they see no God.

You mentioned a cute atheist phase at the top of your post. I saw one I really liked. It said:

“Lord, save us from your followers.”

Your friend
Sufjon

 

[John_Paul_Jones]

There’s an old atheist saying: you pray for me, and I’ll think for you.

There’s a possibility in the same sense that virtually anything could be possible, but I think the odds that I actually am deluded are exceedingly low. This is because I base my thinking on evidence and reason.

You have faith in the interpretation of the evidence, and you faith that the reasoning behind it is sound and free from error. So basically there is no difference between you and someone who has a religion (any religion).

 

[meltzerboy]

There’s an old atheist saying: you pray for me, and I’ll think for you.

There’s a possibility in the same sense that virtually anything could be possible, but I think the odds that I actually am deluded are exceedingly low. This is because I base my thinking on evidence and reason.

Consider: there are hundreds (thousands?) of religions and “spiritual beliefs” in the world, all of which make incredibly different claims and all of which couldn’t be true at the same time. All of them could be argued to be beliefs that serve to “spice up” life, and all of them have at least some members who have had “internal experiences” that confirm their beliefs.

So there are only two mutually exclusive options:

1. One single one of these thousands of religions is the correct one, which means that every other single religious person (and “spiritual person”) is deluding themselves.

or

1. None of them are correct, and all religious people (and “spiritual people”) are deluding themselves.

Now, this dichotomy doesn’t at all prove that there’s no god(s), but it does make it clear that every religious/spiritual person believes that every other religious/spiritual person, except those in one special group, is “deluded.” Atheists just go one step further: maybe they’re all deluded.

But some religions are much less dogmatic and have no official creed, such as Unitarianism, Quakerism, and Religious Science (science of mind), albeit they still believe in one G-d. They even accept people of other faiths as part of their faith. Perhaps they can be called New Age religions of old (trying to get back to the OP question).

 

[Bob_Crowley]

Not sure if this is the correct forum, but here we go. The question I’m posing has really struck me for some time. I’ve wondered why all of these crazy ideas proposed by New Age “leaders” (for lack of a better word) and their followers are so attractive to people. I guess it’s true that in a way this reveals a great hunger in people for Truth and their purpose in life.

The last item that I emphasized here is truly affecting my sister. She’s been driving herself further and further away from the teachings of the Catholic faith and immersing herself into these New Age ideas. I guess I’m not even sure how deeply she is into this but I know that she’s always wondering about what her purpose is, that she is trying to find her “inner self”, and other stuff like that. She claims of having premonitions, visions, hauntings by demonic beings in her dreams, having a past life, belief in reincarnation, etc. etc.

I’ve been praying for her, but this is quite frustrating as she no longer has the desire to attend Mass. I don’t know what happened to cause her and her husband to no longer attend. Long story, but I thought I could start this discussion by asking the question I posed in this thread’s title.

It’s attractive as it appeals to the ego in one way or another. If you read an astrologer’s predictions, they’re always positive. If you listen to John Edwards (?), the spirits he’s supposed to be contacting always say they’re fine, they’re hunky dorey etc. Not one of them will mention being judged and in hell.

If they’re getting some sort of limited power from the devil (and his followers do get certain powers - read “From Witchcraft to Christ” and you’ll find that out, although I’m a bit suspicious about the author. Apparently my old Protestant pastor heard her speak once, and he said he felt a very deep sense of unease. She’d been a chief witch; not just any old witch), then there’s an ego pay off. Never mind of course, there’ll be another payoff at a later date, when they’ve got to answer for it.

Finally there is no talk of self sacrifice, no need to reform one’s character, deal with one’s sins and all the rest. Nor is there any discussion about a God, who in the words of the writer of Hebrews, is a “consuming fire”.

It’s a cop out. That’s why it’s attractive. Like going to the pub instead of going to church.

 

[AntiTheist]

Some religions could be approaching the same Truth. Some could be stalled in their pursuit of Truth. Some could be heading away from Truth. And one religion might be closest to the Truth.

Actually, no. The religions in question all make contradictory claims, which means that they cannot all be true at once.

Now, you’re free to make up a story about them “approaching the same Truth” and just veiling this Truth in different symbols – that is, to reinterpret all religions as different exoteric cloths wrapped around some esoteric truth – but to do so is to 1) run counter to the claims of these religions themselves and 2) to disregard their claims of in favor of making up any old unfalsifiable story you please just because it gives you the warm and fuzzies to tell yourself parables about blind men and elephants.

 

[AntiTheist]

You have faith in the interpretation of the evidence, and you faith that the reasoning behind it is sound and free from error. So basically there is no difference between you and someone who has a religion (any religion).

This is a typically disingenuous tactic of the religious believer: try to pretend that real knowledge is just as much “faith” as believing in anything that gives you warm and fuzzies inside.

The thing is, real knowledge is based on evidence and not faith. You can try to twist the words around and claim, “Oh, but you need faith in the evidence, so really you’re operating on ‘faith’ just like any religious person is! Aha!” but it’s just an empty equivocation fallacy.

If we follow your line of reasoning to its conclusion, what you’re saying is that everything is based on “faith” and that we thus have no basis for determining a true belief from a false one – so therefore, any claim is just as likely to be true as any other claim.

Incidentally, this means, by your own logic, that Scientology is just as likely to be true as Christianity, since it’s just as much an act of “faith” to believe in either one. It also means that, by your own logic, the claim “Jumping off a mountain will kill me” and “Jumping off a mountain will cause me to fly under my own power” are each equally likely to be true since it’s just as much of an act of “faith” to believe in either one.

Your position is based on the deification of ignorance. It’s a good thing for the rest of humanity that most of the people inventing the things that improve our day-to-day lives don’t share this ridiculous philosophy.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

so therefore, any claim is just as likely to be true as any other claim.

Or it could be certain truths are only discernible via certain means.

 

[TEPO]

I don’t feel restricted at all. I feel liberated knowing that God is my Father, knowing what REAL love is, knowing how to love (not that it’s easy, not that I don’t fail), knowing that God has a purpose for me, and that purpose definitely involves lots and lots and lots of giving until I die. Knowing that God gives us dignity by allowing us to cooperate with Him in the salvation of the whole world also gives me great joy.

Good points.

But I would like to add: the more good one does, the more the devil attacks. At this point I feel as if I’m surrounded by savages who test me all day long.

I often wonder if other Catholics feel this way… Or if I’m imagining things.

In any case, you are correct overall, I’m just exhausted.