Why are the New Age movement and other exotic ideas so attractive?

[cyberwolf001]

Actually not. Your promises appear to be kept. But in the end all they do is leave people wanting.

You can say it all you want my friend. But this is not so. Many can attest to this.

 

[JustaServant]

Personal religious ideologies aside (whether New Age thought is evil or not,) do you think Catholics are more apt to be interested in New Age thought because Catholicism itself is highly mystical?

What I mean is, Protestants pay little attention to Marian apparitions, weeping statues, stigmata, and the like, but there is a place for the mystical in Catholicism.

A simple remote click to your local TV evangelist channel (my cable system has four) shows that evangelical/Pentecostol Protestants have no problem with the mystical or miracles. More liberal Protestant denominations might reject the supernatural, but it is hardly something you can paint with a broad brush.

 

[GEddie]

I think that’s part of why the practice is so objectionable, actually. There’s a story I recall from my Medieval Studies classes where a peasant woman thought that “planting” the Eucharist in her garden would help her plants grow, so it’s by no means a new development. Again, though, the church strongly disapproves of such things…

That’s an understatement, when it comes to the descration of our LORD’s holy Body…

Still HE did allow the Lanciano Eucharistic Miracle of 1273 to come from this incident, so HE can bring good out of anything.

ICXC NIKA

 

[GEddie]

Personal religious ideologies aside (whether New Age thought is evil or not,) do you think Catholics are more apt to be interested in New Age thought because Catholicism itself is highly mystical?

What I mean is, Protestants pay little attention to Marian apparitions, weeping statues, stigmata, and the like, but there is a place for the mystical in Catholicism.

Additionally, what do you make of some “metaphysical” traditions drawing on Catholic ideas and traditions? For instance, Voodoo and Santeria rely heavily on the pantheon of Catholic saints.

Even a traditional Catholic (right or wrongly) might bury a statue of St. Joseph upside down and facing the house in order to sell said house? Is that a form of “magic?”

I’m curious what others have to say regarding this.

I think it is because in the great age of the Church, a lot of local beliefs and superstitions have become syncretized into the faith. These superstitions are more congruent to New Age and similar systems than to the Church, so they make those other systems more appealing.

ICXC NIKA

 

[Conor7]

A simple remote click to your local TV evangelist channel (my cable system has four) shows that evangelical/Pentecostol Protestants have no problem with the mystical or miracles. More liberal Protestant denominations might reject the supernatural, but it is hardly something you can paint with a broad brush.

I agree with you wholeheartedly! Incidentally, I grew up in that sort of tradition (and later left). I wasn’t even aloud to watch the Wizard of Oz because of the alleged witchcraft. Even poor Glenda wasn’t safe as she was the handmaiden of the devil. Point being (of my mostly pointless anecdote) is that these traditions really have a way of putting the fear of God in you (pun slightly intended) to avoid such matters.

 

[rinnie]

You are close dear friend. The reason our ways are attractive and I have had time to think on this is, our promises are kept. Practice, practice, practice and live a good moral life and you will have good things come to you!

Oh! Yes I agree but the problem is it does not always happen in this world.

Look what Happened to our Dear Lord and the Blessed Mother. Our Lord said that if the world hates you remember it hated me first.

You say that your promises are kept? What do you mean by that. Many people have lived a clean moral life as I have shown you and have not had good thing come to them. Not in this world. How do you explain that.

No one I know lived a more clean and moral and good life then my Mother and she lost her son, she does not see that as a good thing. Can you explain that? How about those people who worked their whole life and then the enron scandle. They lost every single dime they saved? How do you feel that you have kept these promises you feel you have the power to keep?

 

[tqualey]

Not exactly, Ahimasa,

You see, the Catholic scholars took Greek logic and adapted it to develop ways of explaining concepts and actions already presented by Christ.

What it appears you are trying to do is to take Catholic thought and run it through the lens of polytheistic pagan beliefs - and expect to improve on Christ’s teachings and His Church. This is where the conflict has become most obvious - and simply results in an impossibility.

God bless

Why not? Greek Neo-Platonic ideas were adopted by Christianity, so why not Hindu or Buddhist ideas?

 

[uglygal]

IMO the reason why neo-paganism has had such a resurgence is:

• social reasons - the two world wars that devastated Europe, saw the holocaust and the murder of millions all in a Christian Europe
• historical reasons - the pogroms and sectarian violence in Christian Europe between Catholics and non-Catholic Christians, the persecution of non-Christians, the Inquisitions, the burning of so called “witches” and “demon worshippers”
• the scandals in Christian churches, such as megachurches and so called “healers”, pedophile priests, pedophile pastors, crazy Christian cults

All in all imo this led many people to question how a religion based on “love” can lead to so much ugliness and violence and prejudice

• globalisation - the world is no longer insular and people have access to information about all sorts of cultures around the world. People can learn about and experience other religious traditions like never before
• Human rights - at least in the western word, people can explore different religious traditions without religious persecution

Other reasons why neopaganism is attractive:

• the innate human curiosity about the “occult” or the “hidden” - people want to know what the secret is
• a way to dissociate oneself from christianity
• to fit in with peers in some instances
• searching for a spiritual home. If one is going to look at Islam and Judaism and Christianity then why not paganism?
• people want to be able to cast spells and control the world they live in

Other reasons which I think are the main reasons:

• people find a spiritual home in paganism
• people find love, comfort and acceptance for the first time in their lives
• people find peace

 

[Elizabeth502]

IMO the reason why neo-paganism has had such a resurgence is:
*…[snip] ** the scandals in Christian churches, such as megachurches and so called “healers”, pedophile priests, pedophile pastors, crazy Christian cults

…[snip]

• globalisation - the world is no longer insular and people have access to information about all sorts of cultures around the world. People can learn about and experience other religious traditions like never before

The quantum leap in interest in New Age and neo-paganism (especially in this country) occurred over 40 years ago – in the decade immediately following Vatican 2 – long before public exposure about clergy pedophilia, and long before the level of globalization & instant information sharing that now occurs.

It is difficult to say, however, whether V2 (speaking to myself, not you) had direct cause or accidental coincidence. Concurent with the decade following V2 was the widespread availability of contraception, and the pre-emergence of various “liberation” movements (gender, race, etc.); in some of these movements, license (as opposed to genuine freedom) was an operative concept. With that license came an assumption of exploration, self-determination, and separation from authority and absolute standards. License to disregard systems of thought with defined boundaries, license to behave with regard only to personally derived standards, license to “try on” new religious affiliations and identities, and even to create hybrids from those out of whole cloth.

The one thing I will agree with – and I’m glad you brought it up, because I think this is underrated in discussions like this – is that globalization makes the retaining of all kinds of boundaries more difficult. Merely the plentiful availability of information, not to mention the unspoken pressure to obtain information, invites indirectly a kind of intellectual experimentation and even confusion (especially among those not solid in a single faith tradition to begin with). Globalization is both a positive and a negative, i.m.o. Modern society tends to look upon it with an extreme bias toward the positive, but I think it has brought, and still brings, a number of downsides to it, including the important illusion that faith tradtions are interchangeable and “united.”

• people find peace

I would take issue with how much genuine peace is demonstrated by the search for new age spirituality. I think there are a lot of claims of inner peace, but some of the least peaceful I have met are die-hard New Agists. Some of them have become rigid and slavish, not to mention cultish. Lots of them are very caught up in me, me, me, which ultimately does not bring peace but preoccupation and self-idolatry.

 

[Ahimsa]

A simple remote click to your local TV evangelist channel (my cable system has four) shows that evangelical/Pentecostol Protestants have no problem with the mystical or miracles. More liberal Protestant denominations might reject the supernatural, but it is hardly something you can paint with a broad brush.

Well, Pentecostals are different, and a special case.

But I would say that, for most Protestants of the traditional denominations (Baptist, Presbyterian, Methodist, etc.), whether liberal or conservative, there appears to be less of an openess to the mystical/magical/sacramental compared to most Catholics, and that this is due to many factors, including (1) the deep tradition of contemplation and meditation in Catholicism; and (2) the willingness of Catholicism to utilize the rich philosophical traditions of the Hellenistic world.

And of course, Catholicism has the concept of divinization (or theosis), in which a person, by grace, realizes union with God (an idea not foreign to Neo-Pagans); not too many Protestants even know what divinization or theosis is, and if they do, they may likely think it pagan. (And this is why Pentecostals, and some Wesleyans in general, are a special case, since they do believe Christian Perfection, an idea similar to divinization/theosis.)

 

[tqualey]

Hi, Erethorn,

I think you need to view the entire set of documents to formulate an opinion. I think Benedictus2 is correct in her statement. Those who willfull remain outside the Chruch they know to be True (Jews, heretics, schismatics - and, anyone else for that matter) are denying God’s aurthority and will go to everlasting fire. Acting with the Graces God gives to each of us is how we will be judged - and, that concept pre-dates Vatican II.

By the way, maybe I misread your post … but, it sounded a bit edgy. Is there a problem here that attitude is going to fix?

God bless

Excuse me, but it teaches exactly that. To those outside the Church, grace and works have no salvific power:

The sacrosanct Roman Church, founded by the voice of our Lord and Savior, firmly believes, professes, and preaches …
…It firmly believes, professes, and proclaims that those not living within the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews and heretics and schismatics cannot become participants in eternal life, but will depart “into everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels” [Matt. 25:41], unless before the end of life the same have been added to the flock; and that the unity of the ecclesiastical body is so strong that only to those remaining in it are the sacraments of the Church of benefit for salvation, and do fastings, almsgiving, and other functions of piety and exercises of Christian service produce eternal reward, and that no one, whatever almsgiving he has practiced, even if he has shed blood for the name of Christ, can be saved, unless he has remained in the bosom and unity of the Catholic Church. - from the papal bull Cantate Domino.

As you can see from the above infailible teaching, you are not correct. Their status is clearly defined: the everlasting fire.

Of course, this leaves us the problem of Vatican II, and the other infailible teaching that says different.

 

[benedictus2]

Excuse me, but it teaches exactly that. To those outside the Church, grace and works have no salvific power:

The sacrosanct Roman Church, founded by the voice of our Lord and Savior, firmly believes, professes, and preaches …
…It firmly believes, professes, and proclaims that those not living within the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews and heretics and schismatics cannot become participants in eternal life, but will depart “into everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels” [Matt. 25:41], unless before the end of life the same have been added to the flock; and that the unity of the ecclesiastical body is so strong that only to those remaining in it are the sacraments of the Church of benefit for salvation, and do fastings, almsgiving, and other functions of piety and exercises of Christian service produce eternal reward, and that no one, whatever almsgiving he has practiced, even if he has shed blood for the name of Christ, can be saved, unless he has remained in the bosom and unity of the Catholic Church. - from the papal bull Cantate Domino.

As you can see from the above infailible teaching, you are not correct. Their status is clearly defined: the everlasting fire.

Of course, this leaves us the problem of Vatican II, and the other infailible teaching that says different.

Vatican II is not a problem. Vatican II is a council of the Church. So unless you can show where Vatican II condemns everyone who is not Catholic to hell then my post stands.

 

[Ahimsa]

Not exactly, Ahimasa,

You see, the Catholic scholars took Greek logic and adapted it to develop ways of explaining concepts and actions already presented by Christ.

There’s nothing to stop Christian theologians from taking Hindu and Buddhist ideas and adapting them to Christianity.

 

[tqualey]

Hi, Ahimsa,

One of the problems with trying to combine human religions with the Author of Truth is that you wind up with statements and concepts that give every indication of a ‘hideous melange’. Adding water to oil and vigorously shaking does not produce oily water or watery oil - the two simply do not mix. Now, you can keep on shaking the container so that it looks like they are mixing … but, this is just an illuson.

Talking fast about how the One God in Three Divine Persons is in any way compatable with paganism, polytheism and/or pantheism just will not work. Eventually you must stop shaking the container and look at what you have produced with these two liquids. Sure enough, they just separate - oil on top, water below.

God bless

Resurrection is not limited to ‘physical’ things. Resurrection simply means a ‘rising again’, and can refer to matter, thoughts, feelings, spirit, etc.

The human body is the culmination of billions of years of evolution, through single-celled creatures, fish, reptiles, primates – all that history can be found in the human body, and yet the human body looks pretty good, and not a “hideous melange”. Surely, the process of reincarnation would not need to culminate in a resurrected, “hideous melange” body.

 

[benedictus2]

You know Benedictus, I am not chopping up any words of the bible. My point is that they didn’t recognize Jesus at first. I know they must have recognized Him at some point, but there was a point where they didn’t. This was in response to a statement wherein I was told that they recognized Him. After a number of explanations from you and others, I am still left to believe that they didn’t recognize Him at least at first.

If you read the account about the appearance to Mary, it happened within seconds. With the Emmaus disciples, it was after a few hours.

As I said earlier, I think it was because none of them were expecting him to be alive. I think their brain cannot accept that this is Him.

Once they had accepted that He is indeed alive, they recognized HIm whenever He appeared.

 

[benedictus2]

There are many moderate to liberal Christian churches who would argue that the resurrection of the body does not necessarily refer to a physical resurrection.

There comes a time when you have to answer the question. You can’t forever hide behind these generalizations that you are unable too support with fact

**So again, w****hich Christians and which parts of the Bible say that the resurrection is not the resurrection of the physical body?
**

There are many Christians who believe in reincarnation, and even a church or two that teach that.

Again, which church and what is it that they exactly teach?

I need to point out here again that re-incarnation (with the many lifetimes) is incompatible with the Bible. So anyone who claims to be a Christian an believes in re-incarnation is NOT a Christian.

 

[benedictus2]

No more alien than Neo-Platonic philosophy.

Can you tell me which Neo-Platonic philosphy that is inconsistent with Scripture has been adopted?

 

[benedictus2]

The reason a person re-incarnates in the first place, is because that person has created separation between himself and God.

But if he was part of God in the first place,** then obviously being God is not enough to keep you enlightenened enough to stop you from creating the separation?** You are basically saying that you are coming from a totally enlightened state, decides to be unenlightened and now works back to the point of being enlightened again which of course does not precludes you from choosing to not be unenlightened again and so the cycle goes.

 

[benedictus2]

I would strongly recommend that you read An Exorcists Tell His Story by Father Gabriele Amorth.

He is the Vaticans head Exorcist and mentions things like these lead to demonic possesion, and what you have stated about her premonitions, visions, etc… could be demonic possesion caused by her activities. You should look for a Catholic exorcist for consul.

Yes, I’ve got that book and it is quite scary.

Another exorcist (the one in the DVD In interview with an Exorcist) was asked why demonic possesion seems to be on the rise. He said it was because of people’s fascination with the occult and new age.

 

[benedictus2]

Resurrection is not limited to ‘physical’ things. Resurrection simply means a ‘rising again’, and can refer to matter, thoughts, feelings, spirit, etc.

Not in the Christian sense.

The latter senses you refer are more a figurative application of resurrection not the literal resurrection that the Bible speaks of.

In the same way that to imbibe a drink (water, softdrink, wine) is not exactly the same as saying one imbibes a philosphy, poetry etc.

The human body is the culmination of billions of years of evolution, through single-celled creatures, fish, reptiles, primates – all that history can be found in the human body,

No. The reptile, fish, primates is no longer found in you. If you think that they are still part of you then that is sad.