Why are the New Age movement and other exotic ideas so attractive?

[tqualey]

Hi, Sufjon.

You are so right! Why, just look at those famou oddball Galileo Galilei, Nicholas Copernicus and Issac Newton. Excellent credentials but not keeping in step with either the crowd or conventional scientific wisdom.

Your quote from the CDC was interesting - of course you realize we are not talking about experiments in labs - but, the reality of people using condoms in bed. You did see that towards the end of that quote they gave less than a ringing endorsement - and their ending came close to Catholic Church teaching.

But what I found most amazing from your response was your aversion to the actual statements and teaching of the Catholic Church on this matter. Considering your criticism of those churches who condemn condoms - I would have thought that as a practicing Moral Relativist you would want to know what the other side is talking about in detail and not in sound-bites.

Unlike you with PRmerger, I am not annoyed. I figure that the best way to maintain your position is to deny access to competing views. This is significant since it was you who brought up AIDS in Afircia and the veiled reference to the Pope. Personally, I would like you to be as knowledgeable as possible about a matter you are obviously concerned with - so, please consider returning to the URL that I provided and look it over.

Concerning Einstein, yes, the position of the observer determines a lot of just what is viewed - so, that is relaitve to position. Two witnesses to a motor vehicle accident will give different and sometimes conflicting accounts of the same accident - and neither is trying to be deceitful. My focus was not on position, but rather with Moral Relativism people are encourage to believe what ever it is that they think or feel or want to do is just an expression of their self - and self should not be inhibited but only enhanced and promoted into a better self. This is a flawed and failed theory.

God bless

PRMerger: You can always find one or two people with outstanding credentials who are at odds with the rest of the professional community in which they operate. Most epidemiologists and medical experts disagree with that conclusion. In fact, even the article you posted quotes the chief of the UN AIDS prevention unit in Geneva as saying that this conclusion is “ludicrous”. He cited it as akin to "saying that sales of mosquito repellent are higher in places where people are more likely to get mosquito bites,” he said. “If people are using condoms more in areas where they are more likely to get HIV, that is positive.”

I have already posted scientific data from exhaustive research that that concludes that condoms are very effective in the prevention of AIDS. The article you have posted, while interesting, posts no data.

When I get time, I’ll look around to see if I can find a few experts who conclude that seat belts and child seats kill more people than they save. I bet it won’t take long, and I can come up with some pretty impressive proponents of that idea.

Your friend
Sufjon

 

[PRmerger]

Harvard Aids expert says Pope ‘correct’ on condoms and spread of HIV.

timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article5987155.ece

More from this secular source: “We have found no consistent associations between condom use and lower HIV-infection rates, which, 25 years into the pandemic, we should be seeing if this intervention was working.”

And yet another secular source proclaims this:

In 2003, Norman Hearst and Sanny Chen of the University of California conducted a condom effectiveness study for the United Nations’ AIDS program and found no evidence of condoms working as a primary HIV-prevention measure in Africa.

Also, has anyone here heard of the great success Uganda has had in decreasing the incidence of HIV, due to the strong influence of the Catholic Church?

“If Thoraya Obaid is truly concerned about HIV in Africa, she should get the U.N. to endorse the teachings of the Catholic Church on matters sexual. That is because the only real success story on that continent is Uganda, a nation that has tailored its anti-HIV strategy to the wisdom of Catholic sexual ethics." source.

 

[Sufjon]

And yet another secular source proclaims this:

In 2003, Norman Hearst and Sanny Chen of the University of California conducted a condom effectiveness study for the United Nations’ AIDS program and found no evidence of condoms working as a primary HIV-prevention measure in Africa.

Also, has anyone here heard of the great success Uganda has had in decreasing the incidence of HIV, due to the strong influence of the Catholic Church?

“If Thoraya Obaid is truly concerned about HIV in Africa, she should get the U.N. to endorse the teachings of the Catholic Church on matters sexual. That is because the only real success story on that continent is Uganda, a nation that has tailored its anti-HIV strategy to the wisdom of Catholic sexual ethics." source.

Hi PRMerger: Looks like another play on words. Condoms have not been effective in Africa because they are not as available in Africa as moral teachings about abstinence. The problem is limited use in Africa. It’s the same as citing the failure of pork sales at the Hajj. In places where condoms are actually used, they are quite effective.

Your friend
Sufjon

 

[PRmerger]

Hi PRMerger: Looks like another play on words. Condoms have not been effective in Africa because they are not as available in Africa as moral teachings about abstinence. The problem is limited use in Africa. It’s the same as citing the failure of pork sales at the Hajj. In places where condoms are actually used, they are quite effective.

Your friend
Sufjon

And yet, in Uganda, where the Church has been able to influence the population, AIDS incidence is down.

And, as I said, this discussion is irrelevant. For unless you would be willing to engage in marital relations with your wife (your yogi/celibate status notwithstanding) with a condom and with HIV all over your seed, then you ought not be promoting this for the poor.

 

[GEddie]

Come on everybody, let’s drop it already.

Is there some principle analogous to Godwin’s Law for derailment of Internet topics into matters sexual???

ICXC NIKA

 

[afthomercy]

I told you (PRmerger) that the question is superfluous. Why would I start having sex after being infected with AIDS when I didn’t have sex before? The answer is no, I would not, but not because condoms are ineffective.

Sufjon, I think you are being deliberately obtuse. I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt and ask you PRmerger’s hypothetical question one last time: “If you were infected with HIV, would you engage in marital relations with your wife, using a condom, knowing there is a greater than 20% chance, with each and every act, that you could infect her with this fatal, horrific virus?”
If you choose not to give a direct answer to this fairly simple question, then the only conclusion is that you are afraid of being caught in a bind!
As a followup question, you have hinted at other reasons that have nothing to do with the efficacy or otherwise, of the condom. Can you then please state them?
As it is, this debate on condoms has practically derailed the OP, and as you can see from the previous post, people are tiring of it!

 

[afthomercy]

In my view, the attraction most people find in new age is the same attraction that prompted Adam and Eve to eat of the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil - the desire to be god. And New Age couples Hindu with pseudo science which makes it sound plausible.

I think this is it! You have put the finger exactly on the problem. The conclusion is that New Age (and not Islam) is the real antithesis of Christianity. At least the Muslims worship the Abrahamic God, and though some jihadis would like to kill our earthly bodies, the New Agers would like to have our very souls!

 

[Sufjon]

And yet, in Uganda, where the Church has been able to influence the population, AIDS incidence is down.

And, as I said, this discussion is irrelevant. For unless you would be willing to engage in marital relations with your wife (your yogi/celibate status notwithstanding) with a condom and with HIV all over your seed, then you ought not be promoting this for the poor.

-Actually, it is back up again in Uganda.

-As for the second question, I already told you that I would if I felt compelled to, and it was mutually desired and agreed. Yes, I certainly would.

Your friend
Sufjon

 

[Sufjon]

Sufjon, I think you are being deliberately obtuse. I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt and ask you PRmerger’s hypothetical question one last time: “If you were infected with HIV, would you engage in marital relations with your wife, using a condom, knowing there is a greater than 20% chance, with each and every act, that you could infect her with this fatal, horrific virus?”
If you choose not to give a direct answer to this fairly simple question, then the only conclusion is that you are afraid of being caught in a bind!
As a followup question, you have hinted at other reasons that have nothing to do with the efficacy or otherwise, of the condom. Can you then please state them?
As it is, this debate on condoms has practically derailed the OP, and as you can see from the previous post, people are tiring of it!

• I already answered it. Several times. I t is not my fault that some people only understand monosyllabic answers.

-The post got derailed because I used an example to make a point relating to the OP that always stirs up the CAF hive. Is that my fault, or the nature of the hive?

Your friend
Sufjon

 

[tqualey]

Hi, Sufjon,

B-z-z-z-z-z … sounds from the CAF hive …

You know, candid resonses would be a real improvement over what you have been posting. What you may call answers have fallen pretty short.

Try a little harder.

God bless

Tom

• I already answered it. Several times. I t is not my fault that some people only understand monosyllabic answers.

-The post got derailed because I used an example to make a point relating to the OP that always stirs up the CAF hive. Is that my fault, or the nature of the hive?

Your friend
Sufjon

 

[Sufjon]

Hi, Sufjon,

B-z-z-z-z-z … sounds from the CAF hive …

You know, candid resonses would be a real improvement over what you have been posting. What you may call answers have fallen pretty short.

Try a little harder.

God bless

Tom

Hi Tqualey: If you could point out a question I haven’t answered, I’ll be glad to try again.

Your friend,
Sufjon

 

[afthomercy]

ephesians-511.net/article.htm
The above’s a link to a website run by one Micheal Prabhu from Chennai, India, that is dedicated to exposing how New Age runs contrary to Catholic beliefs.
For general information.

 

[CHRISTINE77]

ephesians-511.net/article.htm
The above’s a link to a website run by one Micheal Prabhu from Chennai, India, that is dedicated to exposing how New Age runs contrary to Catholic beliefs.
For general information.

Thanks - that looks like a great site - very detailed. It covers just about every new age trick in the book! It’s a lot to read, but it looks like a great resource.

 

[rinnie]

I think this is it! You have put the finger exactly on the problem. The conclusion is that New Age (and not Islam) is the real antithesis of Christianity. At least the Muslims worship the Abrahamic God, and though some jihadis would like to kill our earthly bodies, the New Agers would like to have our very souls!

I agree. It seems to me to be just a modern way of trying to control someone.

I believe that People forget that praying the rosary or just sitting quietly and saying Jesus I love you please send me your Grace to do your worlk is good enough.

Why? Simply because everything with Jesus is FREE. But what People forget is that is why Jesus was killed. Simply because his way is not the way of the world.

But many People do not truly understand Christ and see the People who do and have him in their hearts. And they cannot understand this.

So they are empy and continue to search. That is when the New Age moves right in and sees the FINANCIAL gain here. And that is what its all about. Money.

But Sorry Guys its not going to work. God is not for sale. If you want God you go alone in your room get down on your knees and close your eyes and say Jesus I love You. Help me dear Lord. And its over. Pray for Grace. Its free. Thats why its AMAZING!!

 

[afthomercy]

-As for the second question (PRMerger), I already told you that I would if I felt compelled to, and it was mutually desired and agreed. Yes, I certainly would.

Sufjon, you pushed yourself into a corner, and so you have no choice but to give the answer you just did. You say “if it was mutually desired and agreed”, and that’s a very big IF. I put the same question to my wife. Suppose I had HIV, and asked her for sex with a condom, would she consent? Her answer was NO she would not, because if the condom was not fool-proof and its failure led to her contracting the virus, not only would she be throwing away her life, we would be jeopardising the future of our two innocent small children, plus risking the possibility of conceiving an HIV+ child.

Now would you like to reconsider your reply?

 

[Sufjon]

Sufjon, you pushed yourself into a corner, and so you have no choice but to give the answer you just did. You say “if it was mutually desired and agreed”, and that’s a very big IF. I put the same question to my wife. Suppose I had HIV, and asked her for sex with a condom, would she consent? Her answer was NO she would not, because if the condom was not fool-proof and its failure led to her contracting the virus, not only would she be throwing away her life, we would be jeopardising the future of our two innocent small children, plus risking the possibility of conceiving an HIV+ child.

Now would you like to reconsider your reply?

Hi afthomercy: I’m not feeling much like I’m in a corner. I gave you a truthful answer. Speaking of corners, I have to be blunt in my observation that you seem to be somewhat boxed in. Specifically, this is in regards to your thinking which seems to be centric to your own experience and circumstances in a world that is diverse and full of possibilities. I’ll explain in detail if I may.

-You have stated why you couldn’t in good conscience do what I would do because of your children who depend on you and the risk of having a child who has AIDS.

-That set of circumstances doesn’t apply to be, because:

     -One of my sons is already a senior in college.

     -My other son is working on his Masters.

     -Neither is dependent on me, because I have raised them to be smart and     independent, and while I am paying for their education, my estate would

allow for them both to stay in school; without working for about 40 more years each, if they chose to do so…

     -Having had a hysterectomy, my wife is not likely to give birth to a child 
     of any sort, including one with AIDS.

Yes, I would have sex with my wife using a condom if one of us had AIDS and both of us wanted to have sex.

BTW, you have to think outside the box more. Do you work in a cubicle?

That’s just a straight forward answer.

Your friend
Sufjon

 

[afthomercy]

Hi afthomercy: (Previous post)

Thanks for sharing. It gives us better understanding of your perspective. I congratulate you on your privileged position, but how many families, let alone African families, would have the luxury of making the same choice as you? I personally don’t see the charm in throwing away a life for the sake of physical pleasere, but that’s my perspective. My family situation comes closer to the actual ground situation of average families that we are talking about. Anyway, so as not to derail the OP any further, can we get back to the fundamental difference between Christianity and New Age that I broached earlier? I have supplied a link. If you get time, will you take a tour and come back with your observations?

 

[afthomercy]

In continuation

PS: Do I speculate correctly, that it is because of your belief in reincarnation that you are flippant about throwing away your precious human life? If so, what’s the guarantee that you will be reborn as a human, rather than as a lower life form? Even the proponents of reincarnation admit that to be born as a human is a very rare gift (since humanity is the only life form blessed with Buddhi, i.e. discernment), and one should grasp the opportunity and use it to attain moksha, which is freedom from the cycle of rebirth. And please don’t say that you are a bramhachari and were only responding to a hypothetical situation.

 

[Sufjon]

PS: Do I speculate correctly, that it is because of your belief in reincarnation that you are flippant about throwing away your precious human life? If so, what’s the guarantee that you will be reborn as a human, rather than as a lower life form? Even the proponents of reincarnation admit that to be born as a human is a very rare gift (since humanity is the only life form blessed with Buddhi, i.e. discernment), and one should grasp the opportunity and use it to attain moksha, which is freedom from the cycle of rebirth. And please don’t say that you are a bramhachari and were only responding to a hypothetical situation.

It is difficult to come back as a lower form of life than what you have achieved, because the material world is an epiphenomenon of consciousness. The consciousness of a human will manifest as another human, or evolve within that realm.

I don’t take my life lightly, but I will admit that I am less attached to it than a Christian might be. I try to take it as it comes and try to have too many expectations either this way or that.

Your friend
Sufjon

 

[tqualey]

Hi, Rinnie,

This was a great post!

God bless

I agree. It seems to me to be just a modern way of trying to control someone.

I believe that People forget that praying the rosary or just sitting quietly and saying Jesus I love you please send me your Grace to do your worlk is good enough.

Why? Simply because everything with Jesus is FREE. But what People forget is that is why Jesus was killed. Simply because his way is not the way of the world.

But many People do not truly understand Christ and see the People who do and have him in their hearts. And they cannot understand this.

So they are empy and continue to search. That is when the New Age moves right in and sees the FINANCIAL gain here. And that is what its all about. Money.

But Sorry Guys its not going to work. God is not for sale. If you want God you go alone in your room get down on your knees and close your eyes and say Jesus I love You. Help me dear Lord. And its over. Pray for Grace. Its free. Thats why its AMAZING!!