Why are the New Age movement and other exotic ideas so attractive?

[Sufjon]

That may be so, but it does not make him any less real. It would be good to get to know the wiles of the devil, for then you will know when you are being led astray. That is what spiritual discernment is all about.

Yes, discernment is important. When you place your life in God’s hands, He can help you with that discernment. Having done so, I am not worried about the Devil. You may worry about it all you like, and perhaps you should. I am certain that many people need to.

Sainthood is not about doing supernatural things. Sainthood means that one’s will is totally submitted to God so therefore we think and act according to His will.

I agree.

That is true again. But I wasn’t referring to those kind of gifts. The devil does give ”gifts” to drawn one from God. That is why I keep re-iterating discernment, discernment, discernment.

I agree again

Sorry but that is not Christian theology. The physical world does not exist within me. I am part of the physical world though. What you’ve just written there is Hindu thinking and just highlights the fact that Hinduism is contrary to Judeo Christian understanding. ]Again, that is opposed to Christian teaching. Consciousness does not create the physical world God did and does, but God is more than just consciousness.

Wrong again as far as Christian theology is concerned. My body is part of the physical world and I was created by God to be in covenant – in communion – with Him.

I can’t see where you are making sense here. I would have to say that God is consciousness. Before there was anything physical, something had to set it in motion. Something without form. I think this agrees with most everyone’s theology.

I have a separate consciousness yes and so do you. You may want to think that there is only one consciousness but that isn’t so. If you think that way, then sorry but that is not Christian teaching.

You are trapped in a body that blinds you into thinking that sense experience is consciousness. This would be sad indeed once all these instruments are rotting in a coffin somewhere down the road. And all that reanimation stuff at the end of the world doesn’t sound very likely or very attractive. That is an invention of people who were still very attached to their bodies. Yes, you can twist the words of Jesus to mean something like that, but it’s a matter of what you want to see. I am not worried about this body and don’t expect to see it again. I, however, will always be around. No fears, no worry, no guilt. It feels good.And it’s always going to feel good. Imagine how nice it would be to live your last days knowing that the thing that made you isn’t waiting somewhere maybe to punish you forever or maybe to accept you, without any certainty on your part as to which is the case. Perhaps there is the real work of the devil - making people to think God is that small or that petty or that dumb. Seriously.

Again that may be Hindu teaching but that is not Christian.

If that is the case, I am open to your explanation of how you have come to that conclusion.

SIZE=3]

Totally wrong again as far as Christianity is concerned. I have a beginning, God created me so I did not always exist. Neither did you even though you may want to think so.

So tell me, where did you begin, and where do you end? Can you define even at this moment where you start and where you end in relation to the world around you? Can you tell me even precisely where you are other than in relation to where your senses put you?

U]So here is a cross road for you. You either believe in Christianity or you believe in Hinduism.

Thanks for the advice, but I define my own crossroads, and I am not bound by any of the limitations that your mind might perceive, or any ultimatums born of these limitations.

Your friend
Sufjon

 

[tqualey]

Hi, Sufjon,

This was an interesting dialogue … requiring a lot of footwork to avoid the issues. But, in my opinion, it seems to me you are whistling in the dark when it comes to well recognized realities. And, that really will prove to be a problem you would do well to at least recognize.

You are trapped in a body that blinds you into thinking that sense experience is consciousness. This would be sad indeed once all these instruments are rotting in a coffin somewhere down the road. And all that reanimation stuff at the end of the world doesn’t sound very likely or very attractive. That is an invention of people who were still very attached to their bodies. Yes, you can twist the words of Jesus to mean something like that, but it’s a matter of what you want to see. I am not worried about this body and don’t expect to see it again. I, however, will always be around. No fears, no worry, no guilt. It feels good.And it’s always going to feel good. Imagine how nice it would be to live your last days knowing that the thing that made you isn’t waiting somewhere maybe to punish you forever or maybe to accept you, without any certainty on your part as to which is the case. Perhaps there is the real work of the devil - making people to think God is that small or that petty or that dumb. Seriously.

Truly, Sufjon, if anyone had a concern about ‘twisting the words of Jesus’ it should be you. Mark 9:48 paints a vivid picture for those who dismiss Christ’s warnings about real unending pain - they go to a place where the worm does not die. The entire 25 Chapter of Matthew is about people who failed to prepare - and suffered the greatest loss imaginable. And, just so you do not have any doubts, I am as serious as a heart attack! .
Sufjon;8066063:

So tell me, where did you begin, and where do you end? Can you define even at this moment where you start and where you end in relation to the world around you? Can you tell me even precisely where you are other than in relation to where your senses put you?

While we can say that our physical existence began at our own conception - we have always been in the Mind of God, Sufjon. What is truly amazing at least to my thinking is that from that moment on, we will never cease to be. Ultimately, we will never cease to be in Heaven adoring God, or in Hell being tormented by the Devil (the evil spirit you take such a casual view of). There are real limits to reality - one is really in one place and by that fact, really no where else. We can willingly wish ourselves to anywhere we want - but, the reality is far more mundane. For the time being, we are earth bound creatures. In the blink of an eye, that will change for each of us.

Thanks for the advice, but I define my own crossroads, and I am not bound by any of the limitations that your mind might perceive, or any ultimatums born of these limitations.

“Cross roads” are funny things, Sufjon. On a map they appear quite obvious and well marked - and still drivers miss them. Life’s actually cross roads are usually much harder to spot - and this is because we reach a series of them with the development of our attitude. This does not mean that real cross roads do not exist - there are four for sure that have my attention: life, death, heaven and hell. We have all begun the process with our human life - and death ultimately awaits us. What we do between these two major events will determine which place we will be for all eternity.

You may see these as limitations and think you are somehow unbound by them - but, if you did not consciously choose your parents and the circumstances of your birth - then you … like me … are on this journey together. It is not an illusion or something that we can change by just wishing it so. This is where attitude comes in. The good thing about it is that people can develop attitudes that are harmful and they realize this and actually work to change their attitude. The first part of this process is to recongize harmful or delusional attitudes that expose us to needless danger. Dismissing the devil as a real concern would be a specific example of what I am addressing.

If you are looking at followig Chrst, then it must be on His terms and not yours. There is no other way.

God bless

 

[benedictus2]

Yes, discernment is important. When you place your life in God’s hands, He can help you with that discernment. Having done so, I am not worried about the Devil. You may worry about it all you like, and perhaps you should. I am certain that many people need to

The devil is the father of lies so what we try to discern is the truth in the teaching. Before Christ, there is some truth, but the fullness of Truth is to be found only in Him.

I can’t see where you are making sense here. I would have to say that God is consciousness. Before there was anything physical, something had to set it in motion. Something without form. I think this agrees with most everyone’s theology.

God is not consciousness. God is pure Being.

You are trapped in a body that blinds you into thinking that sense experience is consciousness.

Only according to Hindu teaching. Christian theology does not teach that the body is a trap the bind one into thinking that sense experience is consciousness.

This would be sad indeed once all these instruments are rotting in a coffin somewhere down the road.

But we have the resurrection of the body. So here again, clear difference between Christianity and Hnduism.

And all that reanimation stuff at the end of the world doesn’t sound very likely or very attractive.

And re-incarnation sounds totally incredible, abhorrent and stupid so where does that leave us?

But then perhaps you savour the possibility of being a dung eating beetle in your next life.

That is an invention of people who were still very attached to their bodies.

That is a revelation of God – Jesus Christ. Again, this draws a very clear line between Hinduism and Judeo-Christinity. Fork in the road once more.

Yes, you can twist the words of Jesus to mean something like that, but it’s a matter of what you want to see.

No you twist the words of Christ according to what you want to see. it is a matter of what you decided to see according to you.

I could equally say that re-incarnation is an explanation that a pre –revelation people proposed in an attempt to understand the body.

I am not worried about this body and don’t expect to see it again.

Whether you are worried about it or no is neither here nor there.

I, however, will always be around. No fears, no worry, no guilt.

Yes, at our resurrection we will live eternally, no fear, no worry no guilt because God has redeemed us. And we will be in a deep loving relationship with God.

It feels good.

Not remotely half as good as knowing that one is tenderly loved by the Love who willed one into existence. Nothing could compare to that.

And it’s always going to feel good.

Not quite for those who are languishing in their next life in the bottom ranks of the India’s caste system nor those who came back as dogs ill treated by their owners.

Imagine how nice it would be to live your last days knowing that the thing that made you isn’t waiting somewhere maybe to punish you forever or maybe to accept you, without any certainty on your part as to which is the case.

Only an impoverished understanding of Christianity would come up with such a scenario.

Imagine your living your last days knowing that you are going home to meet your eternal loving Father. That is so much more satisfying than just the absence of desire. It is the fulfillment of one’s most deepest desire.

 

[benedictus2]

 Perhaps there is the real work of the devil - making people to think God is that small or that petty or that dumb.

No the real work of the devil is to make people think (contrary to reason) that they have always existed and will keep coming back and that they are sometimes cat, sometimes, people, sometimes mouse or tree. Nothing could be dumber than that.

Seriously.

Yes, seriously.

I mean it is so evident in India. This re-incarnation lie is keeping people entrenched in poverty. Now how can you not call that the work of the devil?

If that is the case, I am open to your explanation of how you have come to that conclusion.

We are body and soul. Some put it this way: we are en-souled bodies.

So tell me, where did you begin,

In my mother’s womb when God created me.

and where do you end?

In heaven with God.

Can you define even at this moment where you start and where you end in relation to the world around you?

I just said so.

Can you tell me even precisely where you are other than in relation to where your senses put you?

I am in God’ presence, in God’s cosmos.

Thanks for the advice, but I define my own crossroads,

You may think you define it but you don’t.

It is there. You just refuse to move. You think you can straddle two divergent lines but you can only do it so far. And then you play mind tricks to avoid seeing that the divergent lines are indeed diverging.

and I am not bound by any of the limitations that your mind might perceive, or any ultimatums born of these limitations.

You are so bound. You just don’t know it. That’s the illusion.

 

[GEddie]

You are trapped in a body that blinds you into thinking that sense experience is consciousness.

You body doesn’t blind you. Your body enables you to see. Your eyes are part of your body. As is your head, which interprets what is seen.

This would be sad indeed once all these instruments are rotting in a coffin somewhere down the road.

That is very sad indeed, and there is no way around it. Fortunately, they will in Eternity be reinstated. Pneumatikon soma; “spiritual body” (to quote St. Paul).

And all that reanimation stuff at the end of the world doesn’t sound very likely or very attractive.

It’s infinitely more desirable than existing as a spirit forever, or being rebirthed up and down the Hindu caste system, then as various animals, until finally reaching the glorious reward of nothingness (isn’t that what Nirvana is??)

That is an invention of people who were still very attached to their bodies. Yes, you can twist the words of Jesus to mean something like that…Your friend
Sufjon

No twisting is required. That IS what JESUS taught. HE was very much attached to HIS body; in that HE resembled all other human beings. So much attached to HIS body, that HE reclaimed it from death: “Destroy this temple, and in 3 days I will raise it again…the temple of HIS body.”

You say you are not attached to your body. If so, you are not normally human. I imagine that you would desperately resist a choke hold on your neck, or a pressure crushing your limbs, with all the strength in you. “Attachment to the body” is part of a normal human being.

In any case, our LORD valued HIS body. You can cling to your beliefs as long as you care to, but you cannot make our LORD a part of them. He did not say what you want to have HIM say. You cannot torture HIS teachings enough to make them fit your beliefs.

God Bless and ICXC NIKA.

 

[PRmerger]

I think it’s a given that at some point many people will become dissatisfied with the traditions that they were raised in, so they go out seeking for something that does fit their needs.

This is called “creating a god in one’s own image.”

People seek something that makes them feel good about themselves, without having to be obligated to anything, to change their behaviors–they simply want affirmation that what they’re doing is fine.

The only thing is, this is the definition of insanity. Living in that which is not consonant with reality.

One should seek the Truth. Not that which “fits their needs.”

 

[tqualey]

Hi, Sufjon,

I just read Benedictus2’s excellent response to your post and would seriously request that you note the detail provided. As a matter of personal interest, you state you are learning about Christianity - but, what I see actually going on is an effort to conform Christianity to your own beliefs… and really this is more impossible than trying to mix oil and water.

There really can be no blending of beliefs - and Benedictus2 went to great lengths to point this out. I have tried to point out areas where there is profound incompatability. Now, there are several implications involved here - but, ultimately how one believes is how they will usually act. No easy answers here - there have been very few people who came back from the dead 1) the widow’s son [Luke 7:11-17], Lazarus of Bethany [John 11:38] and of course, Jesus Christ who raised Himself [John 20:9] of these three, nothing is recorded about what the first two said of the experience - Jesus, however, was quite clear that He had come to show us the Way to the Father - and His Resurrection proved He was God. Those who willfully reject the Way He has provided adn the Graces He has given to each individual to get there, will be punished in Hell forever… and that is that worm that does not die.

There were those, even after the Resurrection, who refused to believe - the Jewish religious leaders who beat the apostles and murdered Deacon Stephen for speaking about Jesus. There is only so much that even God will do - and for some exercising their free will to reject Christ is what they really want - and this is what they will have.

At this point I really do not know what more can be said, except we should all pray for one another.

God bless

 

[agent_grey]

The problem is scripture. Virtually all christian religions rely on scripture as the word of God. The problem is that if one truly believes in a Holy God all they have to do is read the bible and christianity goes in the garbage along with the bible.

Seriously… read the bible you will find that the so called bible God is anything but holy. The fact is that the biblical God is an invention of man. This revolves around the satanic doctrine of scriptural innerancy and scripture alone(Pagan literatue worship).

I am to this day amased that anybody could honestly believe the bible is the word of God. I would never insult God with such a blasphemy… but that is just me.

 

[afthomercy]

Hi, Sufjon…you state you are learning about Christianity - but, what I see actually going on is an effort to conform Christianity to your own beliefs… and really this is more impossible than trying to mix oil and water. There really can be no blending of beliefs…At this point I really do not know what more can be said, except we should all pray for one another. God bless

Sufjon, I totally agree with the above post. To my mind, you see Hinduism-New Age as encompassing Christianity, whereas the two belief systems, at a dogmatic level, are actually anti-thetical/diametrically opposed to each other. The only silver lining I see, is that since you are baptised (even though you may have converted for strategic reasons rather than out of true conviction ), the Holy Spirit has a good chance to lead you into the truth. So, as tqualey has said, we must all pray for one another!

 

[Sufjon]

The devil is the father of lies so what we try to discern is the truth in the teaching. Before Christ, there is some truth, but the fullness of Truth is to be found only in Him

This is your belief, I understand that.

God is not consciousness. God is pure Being.

What in your estimation is pure being? Please elaborate on what that is if you would.

Only according to Hindu teaching. Christian theology does not teach that the body is a trap the bind one into thinking that sense experience is consciousness

You can’t teach something you are unaware of.

But we have the resurrection of the body. So here again, clear difference between Christianity and Hnduism.

And re-incarnation sounds totally incredible, abhorrent and stupid so where does that leave us?

It leaves us disagreeing.

But then perhaps you savour the possibility of being a dung eating beetle in your next life.

I know this was intended as an insult, and that’s okay, but it only reveals a lack of understanding of how how reincarnation works. It is not possible for a person to come back as a dung beetle. Reincarnation also takes evolution into account, before evolution was even a part of science. We evolve up the chain, not down it.

That is a revelation of God – Jesus Christ. Again, this draws a very clear line between Hinduism and Judeo-Christinity. Fork in the road once more

You see a line, and I don’t. What can I say?

No you twist the words of Christ according to what you want to see. it is a matter of what you decided to see according to you.

I think I am only taking what Christ said in the context of what other Avatars have said, and I finf them to match. I know the only Avatar you believe in is Jesus, so I understand your perspective.

I could equally say that re-incarnation is an explanation that a pre –revelation people proposed in an attempt to understand the body.

I’m not seeing anything revealed in what Christ said to be counter to what I believe.

Whether you are worried about it or no is neither here nor there.

Fact remains that I am not worried about it.

Yes, at our resurrection we will live eternally, no fear, no worry no guilt because God has redeemed us. And we will be in a deep loving relationship with God.

Yes, I know this is what you believe.

Not remotely half as good as knowing that one is tenderly loved by the Love who willed one into existence. Nothing could compare to that.

I am very sure of God;s love for me. sans your fear of his Wrath. I don’t fear Him in the least. I know this is part of the guilt thing that Christians carry around, but it isn’t something that I am carrying around.

Not quite for those who are languishing in their next life in the bottom ranks of the India’s caste system nor those who came back as dogs ill treated by their owners.

Another low minded insult that shows a lack of understanding of Indian culture and the concept of how reincarnation works. I will point out if I may that this is the forth time in the time that I’ve known you that you’ve suggested that I might come back as a dog. A slightly veiled insult, but low minded nonetheless. I would point out however that perhaps a dog better serves the glory of God than a person who continually insults others. You are not doing your best when you do that sort of thing, or using your intellect to the capacity that God enabled you to. It would better to be a dog who is using his energy and gifts at being a good dog. It also gives me good cause to discontinue any discourse with you, which I am seriously considering. Firstly because you have spent a good amount of time insulting things you don’t understand, and secondly because some of your remarks suggest that you might not be able to comprehend certain things anyway. That is not an insult, but an observation. That is another place where your scriptures match mine:

-Hindu version: Don;t trouble the ignorant with what you know.

-Christian parallel: Don’t cast your peals among swine.

Tell me why I should disobey these and answer you again?

Only an impoverished understanding of Christianity would come up with such a scenario.

Please explain.

I

magine your living your last days knowing that you are going home to meet your eternal loving Father. That is so much more satisfying than just the absence of desire. It is the fulfillment of one’s most deepest desire.

Desire will leave you with desire.

Your friend
sufjon

 

[tqualey]

Hi, Sufjon,

I think your presentation has gone as far as I can hanndle it -

Christ is not an avitar - He is the Son of God

Maybe you should keep this in mind being on CAF.

Good bless

This is your belief, I understand that.

What in your estimation is pure being? Please elaborate on what that is if you would.

You can’t teach something you are unaware of.

It leaves us disagreeing.

I know this was intended as an insult, and that’s okay, but it only reveals a lack of understanding of how how reincarnation works. It is not possible for a person to come back as a dung beetle. Reincarnation also takes evolution into account, before evolution was even a part of science. We evolve up the chain, not down it.

You see a line, and I don’t. What can I say?

I think I am only taking what Christ said in the context of what other Avatars have said, and I finf them to match. I know the only Avatar you believe in is Jesus, so I understand your perspective.

I’m not seeing anything revealed in what Christ said to be counter to what I believe.

Fact remains that I am not worried about it.

Yes, I know this is what you believe.

I am very sure of God;s love for me. sans your fear of his Wrath. I don’t fear Him in the least. I know this is part of the guilt thing that Christians carry around, but it isn’t something that I am carrying around.

Another low minded insult that shows a lack of understanding of Indian culture and the concept of how reincarnation works. I will point out if I may that this is the forth time in the time that I’ve known you that you’ve suggested that I might come back as a dog. A slightly veiled insult, but low minded nonetheless. I would point out however that perhaps a dog better serves the glory of God than a person who continually insults others. You are not doing your best when you do that sort of thing, or using your intellect to the capacity that God enabled you to. It would better to be a dog who is using his energy and gifts at being a good dog. It also gives me good cause to discontinue any discourse with you, which I am seriously considering. Firstly because you have spent a good amount of time insulting things you don’t understand, and secondly because some of your remarks suggest that you might not be able to comprehend certain things anyway. That is not an insult, but an observation. That is another place where your scriptures match mine:

-Hindu version: Don;t trouble the ignorant with what you know.

-Christian parallel: Don’t cast your peals among swine.

Tell me why I should disobey these and answer you again?

Please explain.

I

Desire will leave you with desire.

Your friend
sufjon

 

[seeker57]

Hi, Sufjon,

I think your presentation has gone as far as I can hanndle it -

Christ is not an avitar - He is the Son of God

Maybe you should keep this in mind being on CAF.

Good bless

I understand this is the teaching of your belief system and I am glad that works for you.

But remember not everyone belongs to your belief system.

And, while this is CAF, it is also the non-catholic religions forum.

Seeker

 

[Tyuiop411]

Sufjon, you said:

I know this was intended as an insult, and that’s okay, but it only reveals a lack of understanding of how how reincarnation works. It is not possible for a person to come back as a dung beetle. Reincarnation also takes evolution into account, before evolution was even a part of science. We evolve up the chain, not down it.

I was under the impression that if you’ve been particularly wicked in your life you can reincarnate as a “lesser” form of life. Is your belief common among Eastern religions or do some affirm something a long the lines of what I said?

 

[tqualey]

Hi, Seeker,

Thank you for your understanding.

Please understand this: there are CAF prohibitions about insulting the Catholic Faith. Calling the Son of God an ‘avitar’ is insulting and I am offended by this terminology.

God bless

I understand this is the teaching of your belief system and I am glad that works for you.

But remember not everyone belongs to your belief system.

And, while this is CAF, it is also the non-catholic religions forum.

Seeker

 

[Sufjon]

Sufjon, you said:

I was under the impression that if you’ve been particularly wicked in your life you can reincarnate as a “lesser” form of life. Is your belief common among Eastern religions or do some affirm something a long the lines of what I said?

Hi Tyuiop411:That is a good observation and there are certain sects that believe this, however, mainstream educated Hindus consider reincarnation as part of the evolutionary process, where the progress of an individual follows a path up the chain of living beings. It is considered a great boon in Hinduism to make it to being a human being. A really bad person is usually thought to come back in such a way that makes them deal with what they did in the past. It is not punishment though, because we don’t believe that God has that in his vocabulary. It is more for growth and teaching a lesson so that the person can move on in their journey to God, so even someone like Heinrich Himmler isn’t abandoned by God. He just comes back with some terrible lessons to learn. Usually those lessons put you on the other end of what you did, in which case you might find someone like Himmler in this life doing time in a North Korean labor camp. I’m not wishing that on him, because that’s not my place, but this is the sort of thing we would expect. This is also in line with the teachings of most Hindu saints. In the end, it’s all God’s will.

Your friend
Sufjon

 

[Sufjon]

Hi, Sufjon,

I think your presentation has gone as far as I can hanndle it -

Christ is not an avitar - He is the Son of God

Maybe you should keep this in mind being on CAF.

Good bless

An Avatar is God in human form. Was Jesus not God? I am of the belief that He was.

Your friend,
Sufjon

 

[Sufjon]

Hi, Seeker,

Thank you for your understanding.

Please understand this: there are CAF prohibitions about insulting the Catholic Faith. Calling the Son of God an ‘avitar’ is insulting and I am offended by this terminology.

God bless

Tqualey: No insult has been intended on my part. If you feel I have insulted your faith then please let me know where and I’ll gladly address it, and if I have done so I will apologize. Meanwhile, I forgive the folks on here who have offered me a ticket to doghood time and time again without any intervention from the forum. Is that a one-way rule?

Anyway, please point out to me where I have insulted your religion and I will be most happy to make amends.

Your friend
Sufjon

 

[tqualey]

Calling Christ an avitar is to use a pagan term for the Son of God. I find this offensive as I said in a previous post.

According to Wiki:

**"In Hinduism, an avatar, Hindustani: ˈəvət̪ɑːr], English: /ˈæv.ə.tɑːr/, (avatāra: Devanagari अवतार, Sanskrit for “descent” [viz., from heaven to earth]) is a deliberate descent of a deity from heaven to earth, or a descent of the Supreme Being (i.e., Vishnu for Vaishnavites) and is mostly translated into English as “incarnation”, but more accurately as “appearance” or “manifestation”.[1][2]

The term is most often associated with Vishnu, though it has also come to be associated with other deities.[3] Varying lists of avatars of Vishnu appear in Hindu scriptures, including the ten Dashavatara of the Garuda Purana and the twenty-two avatars in the Bhagavata Purana, though the latter adds that the incarnations of Vishnu are innumerable.[4] The avatars of Vishnu are a primary component of Vaishnavism. An early reference to avatar, and to avatar doctrine, is in the Bhagavad Gita.[5]

Shiva and Ganesha are also described as descending in the form of avatars. The various manifestations of Devi, the Divine Mother principal in Hinduism, are also described as avatars or incarnations by some scholars and followers of Shaktism.[5][6] The avatars of Vishnu carry a greater theological prominence than those of other deities, which some scholars perceive to be imitative of the Vishnu avatar lists."**

As I appreciate your post, and within the context of continuously fitting what has been presented by others into Hinduism, you have attempted to identify Christ as a pagan god. If you are sincerely trying to learn about Christ - and have been repeatedly told that Hinduism and Christianity are totally incompatiable - using such terms is insulting.

God bless

Tqualey: No insult has been intended on my part. If you feel I have insulted your faith then please let me know where and I’ll gladly address it, and if I have done so I will apologize. Meanwhile, I forgive the folks on here who have offered me a ticket to doghood time and time again without any intervention from the forum. Is that a one-way rule?

Anyway, please point out to me where I have insulted your religion and I will be most happy to make amends.

Your friend
Sufjon

 

[Sufjon]

Calling Christ an avitar is to use a pagan term for the Son of God. I find this offensive as I said in a previous post.

According to Wiki:

**"In Hinduism, an avatar, Hindustani: ˈəvət̪ɑːr], English: /ˈæv.ə.tɑːr/, (avatāra: Devanagari अवतार, Sanskrit for “descent” [viz., from heaven to earth]) is a deliberate descent of a deity from heaven to earth, or a descent of the Supreme Being (i.e., Vishnu for Vaishnavites) and is mostly translated into English as “incarnation”, but more accurately as “appearance” or “manifestation”.[1][2]

The term is most often associated with Vishnu, though it has also come to be associated with other deities.[3] Varying lists of avatars of Vishnu appear in Hindu scriptures, including the ten Dashavatara of the Garuda Purana and the twenty-two avatars in the Bhagavata Purana, though the latter adds that the incarnations of Vishnu are innumerable.[4] The avatars of Vishnu are a primary component of Vaishnavism. An early reference to avatar, and to avatar doctrine, is in the Bhagavad Gita.[5]

Shiva and Ganesha are also described as descending in the form of avatars. The various manifestations of Devi, the Divine Mother principal in Hinduism, are also described as avatars or incarnations by some scholars and followers of Shaktism.[5][6] The avatars of Vishnu carry a greater theological prominence than those of other deities, which some scholars perceive to be imitative of the Vishnu avatar lists."**

As I appreciate your post, and within the context of continuously fitting what has been presented by others into Hinduism, you have attempted to identify Christ as a pagan god. If you are sincerely trying to learn about Christ - and have been repeatedly told that Hinduism and Christianity are totally incompatiable - using such terms is insulting.

God bless

Oh, well tqualey, that is why I didn’t see what insulted you. Calling Christ an Avatar is not in any way intended as an insult. An Avatar is a manifestation of the ONE GOD in living form. Hindus believe in One God expressed in many living forms. Was Jesus God in living form? If so, then I see the term Avatar as applying quite well. No insult even possible there. Would not the real insult here be to suggest that my praise of Jesus in calling Him an Avatar is somehow inferior to your praise of Jesus in accordance with your faith? Do you really believe that you have been given some spiritual right of way from God to look down on the earnest love that others have for God? That sounds like bigotry, but perhaps that’s not a formal sin in your faith. But it’s also probably not a path to God. Anyway, no insult was present or even intended in the use of the term Avatar/

Furthermore, it’s actually quite a term of endearment to call Jesus an Avatar. I have heard you describe Him as the son of God. But then I think to myself, that we are all children of God, so that term just makes Jesus another son of God, does it not? Regardless of unique conditions of birth, a son is but a son. How is one Son of God different than another son of God simply on the basis of the title son? Both are but children of God. Now the term Avatar, that gives a distinct place as God among us, rather than a sibling. I see the title Son, as being lesser than the title Avatar, but I understand that you didn’t mean to insult Jesus, even though I could take it that way. It’s your way of seeing Him and an expression of your love for Him, and that’s sacred to me.

I will agree that you have repeatedly told me that Hinduism and Christianity are completely incompatible, so what you said above is very true. You have indeed told me this many times. It remains, however, that I don’t feel that you have given me any compelling reason to believe that they are incompatible. I can only recall that you have insisted that this is so. You have on occasion cited your understanding of how they differ, but I have not found any of these arguments to hold up very well. .

Your friend
Sufjon

 

[PRmerger]

But then I think to myself, that we are all children of God, so that term just makes Jesus another son of God, does it not? Regardless of unique conditions of birth, a son is but a son. How is one Son of God different than another son of God simply on the basis of the title son?

Christianity teaches that we are sons of God by adoption. Jesus is the Son of God ontologically, at his essence.