Why are the New Age movement and other exotic ideas so attractive?

[benedictus2]

Hi PJM - if this is true, then some of this would not be like Hinduism. There are many austerities in Hinduism and it is a most difficult path if followed correctly. As far as judging other people is concerned, I have tried not to make that my business. I have my hands full watching me.

Your friend
Sufjon

I think you missed the point of what PJM meant about "don’t judge me’. She was talking about relativism.

 

[henrikhank]

Can you please clarify what you mean by “live with that religion”?

Brother David Steindl-Rast is a good example of someone who actually live with anothe religion.

Sr Mary of the Trinity SOLT

One of my favourite conversion stories is that of Sr Mary of theTrnity SOLT.

You can download her conversion story from this link (item no 125)
ewtn.com/vondemand/audio/seriessearchprog.asp?pgnu=5&SeriesID=-6892289

What is interesting about her conversion is because she was very much into Eastern Religions particularly Hinduism and Buddhism.

At around 19 minutes into the interview with Marcus Grodi she mentions of how she and her friend went to see this Hindu Holy man and expressed the wish to follow him because they were looking for the truth. They wanted to be disciples of this Hindu holy man. However this guru told them “Jesus Christ has everything you’re looking for. Go to him”. When they protested, all he said was “I have spoken.”

She also spoke of how in Yogananda’s biography, he said that his master told him that Jesus Christ is the only totally, fully enlightened being to ever come down from the seventh heaven.

If Christ is the only truly enlightened being then what He says is the fullness of Truth.

I would highly recommend downloading Sr Mary’s conversion story. It is quite amazing.

I think this was vey interesting. She was little into eastern religions but I don’t she was initiated by a Swami. I had an interest in the eastern religions, mostly hinduism. Although I met a Swami and met him many times I never really started to follow him. I took some geat advice fom him but nothing like being initiated. I also search for truth in books, internet and other places fo help (sometimes chistianity).
I think this catholic sister didn’t really follow the eastern religion with all ritiual and everything. If she had an real interest in hinduism why then did she never talk about vegetarianism and the church?

 

[Ahimsa]

Sr Mary of the Trinity SOLT

One of my favourite conversion stories is that of Sr Mary of theTrnity SOLT.

You can download her conversion story from this link (item no 125)
ewtn.com/vondemand/audio/seriessearchprog.asp?pgnu=5&SeriesID=-6892289

What is interesting about her conversion is because she was very much into Eastern Religions particularly Hinduism and Buddhism.

At around 19 minutes into the interview with Marcus Grodi she mentions of how she and her friend went to see this Hindu Holy man and expressed the wish to follow him because they were looking for the truth. They wanted to be disciples of this Hindu holy man. However this guru told them “Jesus Christ has everything you’re looking for. Go to him”. When they protested, all he said was “I have spoken.”

Thomas Merton had a similar experience. He was in NYC, ran into a Hindu holyman in a park, and asked him about Hindu scriptures. The holyman said to Merton, that he should go back and study more deeply his own Christian texts, like Augustine.

It should be pointed out that a Hindu can say “Jesus Christ has everything you’re looking for. Go to him”, not because the Hindu believes Christ is the sole and only Avatar, but because the Hindu knows that, for many Westerners, their spiritual path is the path of Christ. Plus, meditation develops psychic abilities, so that’s another way the Hindu holyman could have known what was best for Merton.

She also spoke of how in Yogananda’s biography, he said that his master told him that Jesus Christ is the only totally, fully enlightened being to ever come down from the seventh heaven.

I’ve read Yogananda’s biography, several times over. I would like to see where he says that Jesus Christ is the only totally, fully enlightened being to ever come down from the seventh heaven. Yoganananda does speak of Christ as being enlightened, but not the only enlightened being, not the only Avatar.

 

[PRmerger]

So the whole point of life is just about experience. No wonder your view of everything is so relative

It is also very egotistical because it centres on the self. The self experiencing all this is what life is all about.

Indeed.

It’s like saying that the point of pregnancy is the* experience,* not the final end: having a new baby.

 

[Ahimsa]

Because there isn’t and there couldn’t be any agreement.

If anything, the value of arriving at this point is to highlight the folly of so called Buddhist Catholics or Hindu Catholics or whatever kind non Christian -Catholic one is supposed to be.Has the Church declared that it is impossible to be both Catholic and, say, Hindu?

 

[benedictus2]

Has the Church declared that it is impossible to be both Catholic and, say, Hindu?

The teachings of the Catholic Church are very different Hindu teaching. Very, very different at the core. We have the Creed. When you profess that creed you renounce anything opposed to that. In that manner, the Church teaches that you cannot be both Catholic and Hindu. You either believe that Christ IS the ONLY BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD, or you don’t.

Furthermore, re-incarnation and resurrection are two different beliefs.

The Church however does not teach that those outside the Church do not receive the graces that flow from the Life, Death and Ressurection of Christ.

Every blessing that comes to every single being comes from Christ’s redemptive act.

 

[benedictus2]

Thomas Merton had a similar experience. He was in NYC, ran into a Hindu holyman in a park, and asked him about Hindu scriptures. The holyman said to Merton, that he should go back and study more deeply his own Christian texts, like Augustine.

It should be pointed out that a Hindu can say “Jesus Christ has everything you’re looking for. Go to him”, not because the Hindu believes Christ is the sole and only Avatar, but because the Hindu knows that, for many Westerners, their spiritual path is the path of Christ. Plus, meditation develops psychic abilities, so that’s another way the Hindu holyman could have known what was best for Merton.

And this where it becomes totally muddled.

The Christian path is totally different to the Hindu path.

If re-incarnation is true, then Christian teachng is false. Both can’t be true.

I’ve read Yogananda’s biography, several times over. I would like to see where he says that Jesus Christ is the only totally, fully enlightened being to ever come down from the seventh heaven. Yoganananda does speak of Christ as being enlightened, but not the only enlightened being, not the only Avatar.

In Sr Mary’s account, it was not Yogananda who said it but Yognanda’s master. But I have not read his life story so can’t really confirm the veracity.

Addedum: In Christianity we do not follow a few moral teachings, we follow a Person, the Second Person of the Trinity.

In Catholicism, we have a whole body of doctrines and a large part of it contradict the basic tenets of Eastern religions.

You cannot follow Christ and believe teachings that are contrary to what His Church teaches.

 

[stevekehl]

New age and eastern religions teach that man is a perfectable creature, Jesus taught that man can only be redeemed by accepting Him and His atoning sacrifice. New age and eastern religions teach that man can reach heaven through his own efforts, Jesus said that was impossible.

 

[Ahimsa]

The teachings of the Catholic Church are very different Hindu teaching. Very, very different at the core. We have the Creed. When you profess that creed you renounce anything opposed to that. In that manner, the Church teaches that you cannot be both Catholic and Hindu. You either believe that Christ IS the ONLY BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD, or you don’t.One could be a Hindu and believe that Christ is the only Son of God. There’s nothing inherently contradictory there.

Furthermore, re-incarnation and resurrection are two different beliefs.

Hasidic Jews believe in both reincarnation and resurrection, so there’s no inherent contradiction between these two ideas.

 

[Sufjon]

In Sr Mary’s account, it was not Yogananda who said it but Yognanda’s master. But I have not read his life story so can’t really confirm the veracity.

Addedum: In Christianity we do not follow a few moral teachings, we follow a Person, the Second Person of the Trinity.

In Catholicism, we have a whole body of doctrines and a large part of it contradict the basic tenets of Eastern religions.

You cannot follow Christ and believe teachings that are contrary to what His Church teaches.

You need to look at the context of what was said. Paramahansa Yogananda’s Guru was Lahiri Mahasaya, Lahiri Mahasaya’s Guru was Sri Yutkeshwar and Sri Yutkeshwar’s Guru was Mahavatar Babaji. This is important to know when talking on this subject, because Mahavatar Babaji was an Avatar of Vishnu, therefore, Yogananda, Mahasaya and Yutkeshwar would have believed that Jesus Christ and Mahavatar Babaji were one in the same, specifically that both of them were embodiments of the Christ Consciousness or Christ Kutashtha (Kutashtha Chaitanya) in human form.

This is the background on why Yogananda would have said that.

Your friend
Sufjon

 

[benedictus2]

One could be a Hindu and believe that Christ is the only Son of God. There’s nothing inherently contradictory there.

Christianity also demands that one believes that Christ is the ONLY Incarnation of God and there is no such thing as re-incarnation.

So, No, one can’t be both Hindu and Christian. They are both mutually exclusive.

Hasidic Jews believe in both reincarnation and resurrection, so there’s no inherent contradiction between these two ideas.

There is - from the Christian perspective.

Christian’s believe we have a beginning when we were created by God. There is only this life here on earth and afterwards the life after that.

The universe is not a part of God, the universe was created by God.

 

[benedictus2]

You need to look at the context of what was said. Paramahansa Yogananda’s Guru was Lahiri Mahasaya, Lahiri Mahasaya’s Guru was Sri Yutkeshwar and Sri Yutkeshwar’s Guru was Mahavatar Babaji. This is important to know when talking on this subject, because Mahavatar Babaji was an Avatar of Vishnu, therefore, Yogananda, Mahasaya and Yutkeshwar **would have **believed that Jesus Christ and Mahavatar Babaji were one in the same, specifically that both of them were embodiments of the Christ Consciousness or Christ Kutashtha (Kutashtha Chaitanya) in human form.

This is the background on why Yogananda would have said that.

Your friend
Sufjon

From what you have written, this is more your interpretation of what was said.

I am basing this from what Sr Mary said and she said that according to the book, Lahiri Mahasaya (if he was the master of Yogananda) said that Christ was the ONLY truly enlightened being. He made no reference to Mahavatar Bahaji.

Again, I have not read the book so can’t vouch for its veracity. If you have it then maybe you can quote that part of the book here, verbatim.

 

[benedictus2]

New age and eastern religions teach that man is a perfectable creature, Jesus taught that man can only be redeemed by accepting Him and His atoning sacrifice. New age and eastern religions teach that man can reach heaven through his own efforts, Jesus said that was impossible.

I think that sums it up quite nicely.

 

[Ahimsa]

I am basing this from what Sr Mary said and she said that according to the book, Lahiri Mahasaya (if he was the master of Yogananda) said that Christ was the ONLY truly enlightened being. He made no reference to Mahavatar Bahaji.I can guarantee you that Lahiri Mahasaya said no such statement in Yogananda’s autobiography.

 

[Sufjon]

From what you have written, this is more your interpretation of what was said.

I am basing this from what Sr Mary said and she said that according to the book, Lahiri Mahasaya (if he was the master of Yogananda) said that Christ was the ONLY truly enlightened being. Again, I have not read the book so can’t vouch for its veracity. If you have it then maybe you can quote that part of the book here, verbatim.

Well, you would have to show me where he said that Benedicktus. You are a person who is bent on believing what you believe, and that’s okay but you need to start backing up your proclamations with facts, or I need to learn to stop talking to a wall… I am very familiar with the teachings of Mahasaya, Yutkeshwar and Yogananda, and they are very explicit in their understanding on this topic. Their explanation is lock step with the one I just gave you. Maybe the person you are quoting heard what they wanted to hear, but Mahasaya never said that Jesus was the only incarnation of God or only enlightened being. Mahasaya believed in all the other Avatars and was a devotee primarily of Mahavatar Babaji.(Mahavatar means Great Avatar, Babaji means Dear Father, hence Dear Father Great Avatar) He could not have been a devotee of Babaji (who was an Avatar) and say what you are suggesting. Although practical experience in any sort of dialog with you would suggest that I just wasted my time replying.

Now, please do me the courtesy of showing me where Mahasaya said anything like that or just stop with this.

He made no reference to Mahavatar Bahaji.

You will not be able to read anything on Lahiri Mahasaya and not find a reference to Mahavatar Babaji in it. Mahasaya, Yutkeshwar and Yogananda were all given their particular missions in life by Mahavatar Babaji.

Your friend
Sufjon

 

[Ahimsa]

Christianity also demands that one believes that Christ is the ONLY Incarnation of God and there is no such thing as re-incarnation.Some Hindus believe that Shiva is the one true Divinity, while Vishnu, Agni, etc., are lesser deities. Other Hindus believe the same about Vishnu. And still other Hindus have other beliefs.

It’s true that many Hindus see Shiva and Vishnu as different names for the one true Divinity, but it’s also true that many Hindus reject that, and claim exclusive true Divinity for one particular Name. So, there’s nothing inherently unHindu about claiming that Christ is the only full incarnation of God.

Christian’s believe we have a beginning when we were created by God. There is only this life here on earth and afterwards the life after that.

The universe is not a part of God, the universe was created by God.Some Hindus also believe in one-life, and that the universe is not part of God.

None of these ideas are absent among Hindus.

You see, the key to all this is that the word “Hindu” is a very broad term, a term that no one has monopoly over. You can be an atheist, and still consider oneself a Hindu (similar to how some Jews are atheist, but still see themselves as Jews).

Now, if you argued that one cannot be both (1) a Roman Catholic (a specific Christian community) and (2) a member of the Saiva Siddhanta Church (a specific Hindu community, under the spiritual direction of Satguru Bodhinatha Veylanswami, successor to the Church’s founder, Satguru Sivaya Subramuniyaswami), then you would have a strong argument, in part because these are two communities with very well-defined boundaries.

 

[GEddie]

Hasidic Jews believe in both reincarnation and resurrection, so there’s no inherent contradiction between these two ideas.

There is. If you undergo reincarnation, the original “you” disappears. There’s no “you” anymore to resurrect.

While debates will continue even into the Last Day as to what, exactly, of the dead human body goes into the pneumatikon soma, there is no doubt that the being who experiences your resurrection will be the same “you” who are reading this stuff right now.

How do the Hasidim reconcile this conflict?

 

[Sufjon]

If you undergo reincarnation, the original “you” disappears. There’s no “you” anymore to resurrect.

The original “you” doesn’t disappear. The passing thing that you mistake for “you” disappears.

In regard to the Jewish view on that, you should probably ask Meltzerboy. Hopefully he’ll pop up on this thread. He always has really good insight.

Your friend
Sufjon

 

[benedictus2]

Well, you would have to show me where he said that Benedicktus. You are a person who is bent on believing what you believe,

That is a really ridiculous coming from you. So you are saying that you are not a “person who is bent on believing what you believe/?
Do you realize what a stupid statement that is? If you are not “bent on believing what you believe” then why do you take great pains to tell us and convince us of what you believe? If you are not “bent on believing what you believe” then why are you still a Hindu inspite of having taken your baptismal vows as a Catholic.

If anything, you are more bent on believing what you want to believe because you twist and contort Catholic teaching according to what you want to believe. And there is ample evidence of that fact in your posts.

and that’s okay but you need to start backing up your proclamations with facts,

Perhaps you can tell me which of my “proclamations” you are asking me to back up with facts.

or I need to learn to stop talking to a wall.

Yes, perhaps that you need to do.
But better still, what you need to do is start backing with facts your own proclamations and perhaps try to read carefully what I have written because your answers are so off tangent.

. I am very familiar with the teachings of Mahasaya, Yutkeshwar and Yogananda, and they are very explicit in their understanding on this topic. Their explanation is lock step with the one I just gave you. Maybe the person you are quoting heard what they wanted to hear, but Mahasaya never said that Jesus was the only incarnation of God or only enlightened being. Mahasaya believed in all the other Avatars and was a devotee primarily of Mahavatar Babaji.(Mahavatar means Great Avatar, Babaji means Dear Father, hence Dear Father Great Avatar) He could not have been a devotee of Babaji (who was an Avatar) and say what you are suggesting. Although practical experience in any sort of dialog with you would suggest that I just wasted my time replying.

Now, please do me the courtesy of showing me where Mahasaya said anything like that or just stop with this.

I asked you a very simple question. If you are familiar with the book that St Mary read, (the life of Yogananda) then maybe you can quote that part verbatim.

Until then, all I am saying is Sr Mary read it and that is what she said Yogananda said. If you know the exact part, prove it wrong and quote the text from the book verbatim.

Simple really. Then **I **won’t be talking to a wall.

You will not be able to read anything on Lahiri Mahasaya and not find a reference to Mahavatar Babaji in it. Mahasaya, Yutkeshwar and Yogananda were all given their particular missions in life by Mahavatar Babaji.

See, this is where you get so confused and so out of tangent. If you will just read what I have written and stick to that then we can avoid this muddiness.

I did not say that this is something Lahir wrote. It was supposed to be something that Lahir said to Yogananda. That is why going on and on about what Lahir has written is pointless.

If you have read Yogananda’s life story then, it is supposedly there according to Sr Mary.

You tried to interpret what Sr Mary said without having read the particular book and particular phrase. So until you do and can contradict what Sr Mary said with a verbatim account from this book, then I suggest you take your own advise and stop with this.

Focus. You need to focus. Otherwise you are flying off on this tangent and that and you will keep missing the point.

 

[benedictus2]

Hasidic Jews believe in both reincarnation and resurrection, so there’s no inherent contradiction between these two ideas.

I just saw GEddie’s reply to this and I would like to add that whether Hasidic Jews do not see the inherent contradiction is beside the point.

You need to show how they are not inherently contradictory. The resurrection I am talking about is the resurrection as Christians understand it.

So I await your explanation. And yes, you can take that from what you think Hasidic Jews believe.