Why are the New Age movement and other exotic ideas so attractive?

[Sufjon]

Quite.

The fact that Catholics understand that there are demonic influences, and that you dismiss them is irrelevant.

Picture a 3rd world country which doesn’t have safety lights. People from this country are criticizing the US for having safety inspectors. We try to inform them of their need to provide safety lights and engineers to create and monitor them. However, “we don’t need no stinkin’ safety people” is their response.

Yet the mortality and morbidity from traffic accidents in said 3rd world country is staggering.

Now, they can certainly persist in their la-la land mentality that they don’t need to be warned about oncoming traffic or follow basic principles of traffic, but it is to their detriment, no?

And the fact that the US is the largest employer of safety people speaks to our, well, intelligence.

Or perhaps it’s just a case of sour grapes because everyone else isn’t bothered by what’s bothering you. Perhaps you are being bothered by demons because your faith has left you vulnerable. Your analogy about traffic lights illustrates a case where traffic lights are needed but not wanted. I am talking about a situation where what you are saying is needed simply isn’t needed. Just because you might have to go to an oral surgeon doesn’t mean that everyone needs one.

Your friend
Sufjon

Your friend
Sufjon

 

[Sufjon]

LOL!

Do you think these people are in desperate need of a Safety Inspector?

http://s4.hubimg.com/u/4836963_f520.jpg

Or should we just assume that, since they don’t have any, that they don’t need them? :doh2:

They might need a safety inspector, but they’re not looking like they need an exorcist.

By the way, if each of these people had a car, I am sure they would be in one rather than being in this picture. Do you feel better having had a good laugh at the poor? Sounds like you might be in the grip of a demon, or at least the grip of un-charitable behavior. Curiously, they do look rather happy in spite of all that. Perhaps it’s their faith.
BTW - those appear to be Muslims.
Your friend
Sufjon

 

[PRmerger]

But people can be fully aware of the doctor and not need to visit one because one is not needed. I know all about podiatrists, but I have never been to one because I don’t have feet problems, or at least my feet don;t bother me.

B2’s point is not that you don’t know what an oncologist or gastroenterologist is, Sufjon. But if you don’t know that bleeding from your rectum is bad, you won’t see one of those guys. You’ll persist in your disease…much to your detriment.

 

[PRmerger]

They might need a safety inspector, but they’re not looking like they need an exorcist.

Your inability to think in the abstract is puzzling, Sufjon. Do you not understand by analogy?

 

[Sufjon]

Your inability to think in the abstract is puzzling, Sufjon. Do you not understand by analogy?

You are far too nuanced and sophisticated for me PRMerger, so you may want to save your breath from now on. Looks like I’m condemned to a life without being tormented by demons, so just be glad that you have figured out what I need.

Your friend
Sufjon

 

[Ahimsa]

If I were denovo given the choice of the two alternative belief systems – one in which salvation depended on faith plus works and the other on works alone, I’d choose the former, because I don’t want to take the pain of doing leading a good life and then losing it all just for the sake of a wrong intellectual understanding of salvation!

Do you mean the “former” (salvation due to faith plus works) or the “latter” (salvation due to works alone)?

 

[Sufjon]

B2’s point is not that you don’t know what an oncologist or gastroenterologist is, Sufjon. But if you don’t know that bleeding from your rectum is bad, you won’t see one of those guys. You’ll persist in your disease…much to your detriment.

Great analogy PRMerger. You really do have a rather small view of people other than yourself. Yes, we Hindus wouldn’t notice it if we had the disgusting affliction you just described. We’re simply not smart enough to notice something like that. Face it, you have exorcists because you have a demon problem. If you didn’t, you wouldn’t have them, would you? It’s more likely that other people don’t have them because they don’t need them. In the typical fashion that I have noted from your faith, you simply attribute the fact that you got a traffic ticket and everyone else didn’t to the fact that they simply didn’t get caught, totally discounting the idea that you might be the only one who blew the light.

Your friend
Suifjon

 

[PRmerger]

You are far too nuanced and sophisticated for me PRMerger, so you may want to save your breath from now on. Looks like I’m condemned to a life without being tormented by demons, so just be glad that you have figured out what I need.

Your friend
Sufjon

Sarcasm is the protest of the weak, Sufjon.

I rarely use it.

Now, if you want to address the concepts in this dialogue, please do.

Otherwise, your protest seems to be quite shallow, weak and speaks to an inability to refute what’s been presented.

 

[Conor7]

Great analogy PRMerger. You really do have a rather small view of people other than yourself. Yes, we Hindus wouldn’t notice it if we had the disgusting affliction you just described. We’re simply not smart enough to notice something like that. Face it, you have exorcists because you have a demon problem. If you didn’t, you wouldn’t have them, would you? It’s more likely that other people don’t have them because they don’t need them. In the typical fashion that I have noted from your faith, you simply attribute the fact that you got a traffic ticket and everyone else didn’t to the fact that they simply didn’t get caught, totally discounting the idea that you might be the only one who blew the light.

Your friend
Suifjon

This makes a lot sense to me and does indeed beg the question: Do Christians, specifically Catholics, need exorcists because there are flaws in the Christian tradition that don’t necessarily offer enough protection from demonic attack?

Admittedly, this is a troubling proposition given that I am a devout Christian.

 

[GEddie]

This makes a lot sense to me and does indeed beg the question: Do Christians, specifically Catholics, need exorcists because there are flaws in the Christian tradition that don’t necessarily offer enough protection from demonic attack?

Admittedly, this is a troubling proposition given that I am a devout Christian.

Or, just maybe, since spirits are not stupid and attack only what they need to, that the Church is attacked by them BECAUSE it is the Holy Body of our LORD?

Put this way: In WW2, the anti-airraid defenses in England were centered on the cities, docks, and military installations. Those living out in the countryside did not require flak cannons or bomb shelters, because they rarely got hit. But that was not haphazard; it did not serve the enemy’s purposes to destroy farming fields.

If the Church gets “hit” by the spiritual warfare, while members of other faith systems do not, I’d say that the Church is likely doing something right.

ICXC NIKA.

 

[PRmerger]

Great analogy PRMerger. You really do have a rather small view of people other than yourself. Yes, we Hindus wouldn’t notice it if we had the disgusting affliction you just described. We’re simply not smart enough to notice something like that. Face it, you have exorcists because you have a demon problem. If you didn’t, you wouldn’t have them, would you? It’s more likely that other people don’t have them because they don’t need them. In the typical fashion that I have noted from your faith, you simply attribute the fact that you got a traffic ticket and everyone else didn’t to the fact that they simply didn’t get caught, totally discounting the idea that you might be the only one who blew the light.

Your friend
Suifjon

Here’s a review of very basic analogies for you, Sufjon.

Christmas tree: ornament :: Earlobe :

Answer: earring.

Now, when someone provides this analogy it does not mean she is saying a Christmas tree is an earlobe, 'kay?

Now, here’s your statement, and I will apply the analogy:

Face it, you have exorcists because you have a demon problem. If you didn’t, you wouldn’t have them, would you?

Face it, you have -]exorcists/-] Safety Officers because you have a -]demon /-]traffic problem. If you didn’t, you wouldn’t have them, would you?

Now, the fact that a 3rd world country (see my image in previous post) does not acknowledge that they are in desperate need of a Safety Officer does not mean they, in fact, don’t need one.

Rather, they are putting themselves in grave danger, increasing their mortality and morbidity greatly, by ignoring our warnings. They simply smile and say, “You’re the ones with the Safety Officers! You must be the ones with the problems, no?”

And then they laugh all the way to the hospital. :sad_yes:

 

[PRmerger]

Interestingly, I just read this:

[SIGN1]
The typical Hindu exorcism practices consist of blowing cow-dung smoke, pressing rock salt between the fingers, burning pig excreta, beating or pulling the victim’s hair, reciting prayers or mantras, and offering gifts of candy and other presents to get the evil or troublesome spirits to depart from the persons. source[/SIGN1]
It seems Hinduism actually has exorcists.

How 'bout that, Sufjon?

 

[PRmerger]

This makes a lot sense to me and does indeed beg the question: Do Christians, specifically Catholics, need exorcists because there are flaws in the Christian tradition that don’t necessarily offer enough protection from demonic attack?

Admittedly, this is a troubling proposition given that I am a devout Christian.

This would be troubling if only Catholics were afflicted by “demonic attacks”. This is not the case.

What is true is that those who are afflicted, even if they are not Catholic, usually seek succor from a Catholic exorcist.

 

[Conor7]

This would be troubling if only Catholics were afflicted by “demonic attacks”. This is not the case.

What is true is that those who are afflicted, even if they are not Catholic, usually seek succor from a Catholic exorcist.

Makes sense to me.

Pentecostals often perform exorcisms; I’ve even seen one. I had nightmares for months. Interestingly enough, I’ve recently learned that there is an Anglican rite of exorcism, although I wonder if we have any exorcists.

 

[PRmerger]

Makes sense to me.

Pentecostals often perform exorcisms; I’ve even seen one. I had nightmares for months. Interestingly enough, I’ve recently learned that there is an Anglican rite of exorcism, although I wonder if we have any exorcists.

Yes. 'Tis true, this.

But I warrant that if you ask the general population, “If you had any fears that your loved one were possessed by a demon, would you seek the help of a Catholic priest, even if you weren’t Catholic”, most would say yes.

 

[Conor7]

Yes. 'Tis true, this.

But I warrant that if you ask the general population, “If you had any fears that your loved one were possessed by a demon, would you seek the help of a Catholic priest, even if you weren’t Catholic”, most would say yes.

To be fair, they would seek out a Catholic Priest because these priests are knowledgeable and trained in such matters, where priests in other traditions aren’t necessarily trained. Don’t make the error of assuming (and I don’t know that you are) that because one would seek assistance from a Catholic Priest that they are also acknowledging that the Catholic Church is the “true” church.

I used listen to radio interviews with Father Malachi Martin on “perfect possession.” That stuff will curl your hair, or in my case, straighten it.

 

[tqualey]

Hi, PRmerger,

Priceless!

Yes, the very presence of a dangerous situation exists whether those on the bus or those watching in amazement appreciate the danger. The idea of the bus driver hitting his breaks and throwing those on the roof down to certain injury and possible death is simply amazing to me. Thanks for sharing this picture.

The idea that the devil is a real and present danger for all people is not as firmly eastablihsed as I had once thought.

God bless

LOL!

Do you think these people are in desperate need of a Safety Inspector?

http://s4.hubimg.com/u/4836963_f520.jpg

Or should we just assume that, since they don’t have any, that they don’t need them? :doh2:

 

[tqualey]

Hang in there, Conor7,

There have been many accounts of demonic possession in the NT - and virtually all of these have involved Jews or Gentiles. We only get to Christ forming His Church in Matt 16:18 and in the Holy Spirit bringing His Gifts in Acts 2. Here is an interestig link: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demonic_possession

Personally, I thought PRmerger punched quite a hole in that smoke screen with her picture of the super-overcrowded bus picture. It is quite possilble that none of the people in that picture sees a safety problem or that they themselves are in personal danger. But, their perspective is irrevelant to the the fact that actual danger exists. Do you doubt that the Devil exists? - or that he has only one goal as far as you are concerned: to have you join him in Hell for all eternity?

But, try not to take this personally … the Devil is an equal opportunity spirit and does not discriminate against any soul - no matter what their beliefs (or non-beliefs!) A soul is a soul and his time is running out, Those that doubt his power, presence or determination will be quite overwhelmed when they get to meet this spirit that has spent so much time convincing humans he does not exist.

Now, get a grip … you have been bapitzed and that marks you forever as having been Chosen by Christ to be one of His. You are wise to fear the Devil for he is truly a damn spirit who does not have your best interest at heart. Your job is to pray for the Grace of God to ward off the wiles and temptations of this damned spirit - fail here and you will suffer numerous other failures.

God bless

This makes a lot sense to me and does indeed beg the question: Do Christians, specifically Catholics, need exorcists because there are flaws in the Christian tradition that don’t necessarily offer enough protection from demonic attack?

Admittedly, this is a troubling proposition given that I am a devout Christian.

 

[Conor7]

I was only playing devil’s advocate, no pun intended.

 

[benedictus2]

Right, because my point was that reincarnation and resurrection are not inherently incompatible. What Hindus, and Buddhists, believe about reincarnation is interesting, but not cogent to the main point.

And where’s there rest of your reply to the the core of my post.

You are trying to evade this but I am not letting you.

So here it is again, you said that re-incarnation started because we made separation from God,** so therefore, being God does not mean that one is enlightened enough not to make that separation **and even if one were to escape the cycle and become sufficiently enlightened to become God again, how can you know that you will not do the unenlightened thing of separating your self once again?

If you go back to the post that I replied to prior to this,** you said " *The reason a person re-incarnates in the first place, is because that person has created separation between himself and God" ***

Now you are saying that God created the soul to do a particular job.

Either God created the soul or the soul was part of God created the separation hence the reason he keep re-incarnating.

Since you claim to be Buddhist then it would probably help the discussion if you discuss it from your own viewpoint. How does re-incarnation begin from the Buddhist viewpoint. What did Gautama Buddha teach?