Why are there almost no monsignors any more?

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Just to clarify some confusion evident in some of the posts here. The title “Monsignor” as used in the United States is an honorary title granted by the pope at the request of the local bishop and given to a priest as a “reward” for his service. Some years ago the bishops of the United States agreed to limit the number of requests for these titles and some dioceses have been more restrictive than others in granting the title.

Outside the United States the title generally refers to a bishop and, thus, has an entirely different meaning.

As has been noted in an earlier post, there are several “grades” of Monsignor.

And, no, a monsignor is not, necessarily, one who runs a school.

Deacon Ed
 
We had one here in Phoenix, appointed by the “retired” Bishop who himself has now been"retired" - released from his duties. :o
Things here are much improved since Bishop Thomas Olmsted has taken over. 🙂
 
They tend to come in “clumps,” I think, as bishops make the recommendations and the Holy See approves them. About 5 years ago or so, something like 10 priests in our diocese were named monsignor all at once.
 
franksta said:
They tend to come in “clumps,” I think, as bishops make the recommendations and the Holy See approves them. About 5 years ago or so, something like 10 priests in our diocese were named monsignor all at once.
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That’s what happen here…all the Msgr. (We got around 15) were all made Msgr. the same time: that was about 10 years ago.

When the priests here where named Msgr. it was the first time our diocese had any Msgr in almost 20 years.

We just didn’t get 1 but we got around 15, but we haven’t had any more since then…
 
decn2b said:
Someone just posted here the other day attending the “consecration” (using the word losesly cause I don’t know the correct term) of a monsignior. Cleaveland? Know anything about Bishop Amos? PM me if you do.
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The correct term, I think, is Investiture. And, yes, I just posted about attending one.

Our ArchBishop just named 7. One from our parish.

I am in the South.
 
I have also observed that no priests have been given the title of monsignor in many years in our home diocese in the US. I don’t know why this is, but I think that it is a shame. Today we seem to only hear about priests who have engaged in scandalous behavior. I would like to see priests who have spent years in outstanding service to Christ and His Church honored publicly, and naming them monsignor would be one way to do it.
 
There may be no truth to this at all. But…

When I called the parish that was hosting the Investiture, they told me that it really happened only once in a while. That we only had so many since our Bishop is retiring.

Now, if I remember correctly, the Bishop said that he puts in the request to Rome and they say yes or no. And “they” have been saying no more often or telling him that he put in too many names.

Now this was for Monsignor, AND Papal medalists and Knights of St Gregory. When he put in the list this time, they told him to cut by one third.
 
Deacon_Ed said:
Outside the United States the title generally refers to a bishop and, thus, has an entirely different meaning.

Deacon Ed
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A little historical background here. As most know, the title “Mon Signor” is Italian for “My Lord”

That title was historically reserved to the landed gentry and their eccesiatical counterparts.

A parish priest, of whatever background was entitled to the respect due the ‘gentel’ class, so was of equivelant rank to what in England was the “Country Squire”, not of “gentel” rank, but of a higher dignity.

The Title of “My Lord” or Mon Signor" was given to priests who were raised to an office equal to that of Knighthood.

Diocesan bishops ranked at the same level as that of either Baron or Count\Earl, depending on diocesean size (and political clout). They were addressed by the same honorific as a Baron or Earl “Your Excellency”

ArchBishops held equal rank to a Duke, and likewise carried the same honorific “Your Grace”

But all of those ranks could (Knight to Duke or Monsignor to ArchBishop) could also be referred to as “My Lord”
 
A little off topic but I will chime in anyway 😃 .

Just want to give some love to my Uncle who is a Monsignor. He just turned 90 and also celebrated his 60th oridination aniversary.

He still lives in a parish recotry says mass everyday, hears confessions and drives everyday to say private masses for shutins within his parish among all the other day to day taks
of a parish priest.

He is a good humble priest who I have idolized my whole life.

I’m done now.
 
Titus said:
There are certainly monsignors, and they are not merely limited to priests who run parishes with schools. Many different priests receive the honour for different reasons: those involved in the diocesan administration (it is particularly appropriate if they are filling a role often filled by a bishop); those with many years of service; those who lead large parishes (like cathedrals or basilicas) and the deans of areas. There are 3 grades of monsignor:
the highest is that of Apostolic Protonotary, who can be either numerary (traditionally there are just seven of these high-level Vatican officials); or supernumary, which is merely an honorific. The second is that of Honorary Prelates of His Holiness and the third is that of Papal Chaplain.

This is wikipedia’s explanation of the current dress rules (post Paul VI):
  • Chaplains of His Holiness use a purple-trimmed black cassock with purple sash for all occasions.
  • Honorary prelates use a red-trimmed black cassock with purple sash for all occasions. The red is the same shade as that used by bishops. They may use a purple cassock as their choir dress for liturgical events of special solemnity.
  • Supernumerary Apostolic protonotaries dress the same as Honorary Prelates. As an additional privilege, they have the option of also using a purple ferraiuolo or cape, a silk cape worn with the black-trimmed-red cassock for non-liturgical events of special solemnity (for instance, graduations and commencements). In English-speaking countries, they sometimes add the letters, “P.A.” (for Protonotarius Apostolicus) after their names.
  • Apostolic Protonotaries de numero (and other superior prelates of the offices of the Roman curia who are not bishops) have the same dress as other Apostolic Protonotaries, but wear the mantelletta in choir and a black biretta with a red tuft.
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For an excellent overview on the prior distinctions between monsignors, their vesture andtitles and positions, see here
 
lak611 said:
I am kind of confused about monsignors. 25-30 years ago, when I was a young kid, there were quite a few priests with the title monsignor. I know it’s something given by the Pope. Did John Paul II not bother with making a priest a monsignor so they are almost all gone now? I don’t know of any monsignors at all, and when I was a kid there were 2 of them just at my parish. Is Pope Benedict XVI going to make any more priests monsignors, or will that title be done away with?
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Maybe things are changing in this area . . . our diocese in Massachusetts just had 9 (yes, nine) new monsignori named by the Holy Father. Perhaps Benedict XVI has a different approach to this.
 
My post is also off topic, but kinda cool, so I thought I would share.
I know a Priest who is a Canon Lawyer in Rome. He was assigned to the Vatican for some work at one point. Everyone there was addressing him as Monsignor, and he had to keep telling them that he wasn’t one. No one believed him, because everyone who works there is Monsignor and up. When it was discovered that he really wasn’t one, he was made one!
However, he is not one now. He is a humble man, and being a Canon Lawyer, he found a loophole (I don’t know what it was), and relinquished the title when he was done with the work at the vatican. The lesson here is never go up against a canon lawyer, you won’t win.

Just thought it was a humorous story.

Yours in Christ,
Thursday
 
It might be your local bishop that’s the cause. Bishops request it from the Pope, and maybe your Bishop just never bothered.
lak611 said:
I am kind of confused about monsignors. 25-30 years ago, when I was a young kid, there were quite a few priests with the title monsignor. I know it’s something given by the Pope. Did John Paul II not bother with making a priest a monsignor so they are almost all gone now? I don’t know of any monsignors at all, and when I was a kid there were 2 of them just at my parish. Is Pope Benedict XVI going to make any more priests monsignors, or will that title be done away with?
Click to expand...
 
Deacon_Ed said:
As has been noted in an earlier post, there are several “grades” of Monsignor.

And, no, a monsignor is not, necessarily, one who runs a school.

Deacon Ed
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I recall telling my current pastor of a youthful memory I had of the installation of my pastor as Protonotary Apostolic, which I had been told was the highest order of Monsignor. He smiled and informed me that Protonotary Apostolic is the title given to assure one that he will never be a bishop.

JSA
 
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