Why are there slaves in the Bible

[abucs]

Why did God the Father have to wait thousands of years for the second person of himself to arrive on Earth to say one bad word about slavery? When did Christianity start? How does that time compare to when slavery was abolished in Christian countries? Why did the Church do nothing in a vast majority of time to end slavery (including issuing papal bulls explicitly allowing for it)? If being against slavery is such a major facet of Christianity why were there so many Christians who either participated in it and/or endorsed it? If it’s such “a natural part of economics” then why did some nations not enslave others even back then?

History is the story of man. Slavery in all its different forms is part of that story.

Christianity was known as the religion of women and slaves and some of the early popes were slaves.

When Christianity gained ascendency slavery was ended. Then the west was invaded and conquered by the Germanic barbarians which caused the Dark Ages. Slavery came back. After the conquering Germanic tribes were converted (an amazing thing in itself) slavery was again ended.

With the conquering armies of Islam who practised slavery Europeans again exposed and participated in slavery until again putting an end to it, this time on a world wide basis when they gained military superiority over the whole globe.

This is part of the story of man. Christianity is part of that story.

As far as the issue of slavery is concerned it is a very good story of fighting against it although of course there were always setbacks which will continue to happen.

Unfortunately with the migration of sub Saharan Africans northwards in the last decades slavery has again become a feature of Northern Africa.

There are also stories today of Filipina workers going to some countries in the middle East as domestic helpers, having their passports confiscated by their sponsors/(owners) and becoming virtual slaves.

 

[NotThatHarvey]

Actually, the type of slavery found in the New World and institutionalized for centuries was unique compared to other types of slavery that history has known. In the Muslim world, slave concubines and enochs (casterated males) could rise to positions of great power. In Nero’s Rome, the richest man in the empire had once been a slave in the Imperial family.
In regards to the Catholic Church, an activist role for the church has only taken shape since world war II. Previous to that, regarding slavery the Church did not approve of Christians being abducted into slavery, of course, but otherwise were concerned only that the slaves be baptized into the Catholic faith and treated somewhat humanely.

 

[MonteRCMS]

Have all you all looked on Amazon? There are TONS of books about slavery! More categories than mentioned here!

You don’t have to buy the books … just read the reviews.

Or, maybe, you will purchase a few of the books.

 

[Athanasiy]

I saw this topic in the CAF chronicle and I have a desire to share the snippet of the book which I read.

“The Bible makes kidnapping a man and selling him into slavery a capital crime, and forbids the return of fugitive slave to his master.
The Babylonian code directed the ears of a slave to be cut off if he asked for freedom.
The Mosaic Code required that a slave should be freed if he suffered bodily injury at the hands of his master.
In the Mosaic Code the slave is not “an animated tool”, as Aristotle defined him: he is not a chattel but a person. In Greece slaves at work in the fields were chained, and if they multiplied to excess the surplus was exterminated.
In Rome the master could mutilate or crucify a slave at his pleasure and abandon the sick among them to die of starvation.
No such barbarities were practiced among the Hebrews.
The Decalogue proclaims the Sabbath a day of rest not only for the master but for his bondsman.
The Greeks and Romans, who had no day of rest, derided the Jewish Sabbath as the devise of a lazy people; their slaves were doomed to incessant labor.
Many a page of Greek and Roman history is red with slave uprisings; the history of the Jews in Palestine, which covers a much longer span, knows nothing of such eruptions.
Greek and Roman economy, in fact , like that of the South before the Hebrew Commonwealth was based on a small independent farmer and the free artisan.”
( “The Jews in America” by Abraham J. Karp. Chapter7)

I hope this bit from the book useful for reflection on this topic. God Bless!

 

[rose321]

He said they would all be equal in Heaven. He said all men on Earth were equal in needing to worship him. God does call slaves property and allows cruelty to be enacted on them that he doesn’t allow for non-slaves.

Respectfully opinion only commanded to search the Scriptures, test all Spirits, bring 2 or more witnesses, Jesus asked many questions, he continually all throughout his teaching, preaching, heavily quotes from, referring back to OT, mentions the great Prophets Isaiah, Jeremiah, Disciples being taught, corrected by Jesus, in knowing His Spoken Word??

Jesus motto was >>I am The Way, The TRUTH, The Life?

What does Holy Scripture say about deception, being deceived?
Genesis 3:12-13, 2 Kings 12:10, Isaiah 59:2
Jeremiah 8:8, Jeremiah 36:26 repeated 4 times elsewhere in Scripture OT, Job 15:31, could list more from OT but just a few.
Ephesians 5:6,Thessalonians 2:3, Colossians 2:8, Mark 12:38-29,
Matthew 24:24, Matthew 21:15, Matthew 7:9, Matthew 23:15, Matthew 23:2

Jesus gives His all His Woes to who, why? > in> Matthew 23:27-28 ,Matthew 13:22, Matthew 24:4-5
Hebrews 13:9:28, Luke 9:22, Luke 22:2, Luke 21:8, Acts 6:12, Mark 12: 38-39, 1 John 4:1, 1 Corinthians 1:20, 2 Corinthians 11:13-15, Timothy 3:13-14, Timothy 4:2, Timothy 3:13-14, Luke 21:8, Rev.12:9.

Jesus time had come, maybe what He knew others did not like to hear such truths?
Jesus teaches us, Let your ears Hear, not what one reads maybe?

Jesus only taught about the Ten Commandments and why?
Jesus taught about the Sermon on the Mount and why?
Jesus taught about >Love your neighbor as you Love yourself and why?
Jesus came to rebuke? identify?

Does not sound like slavery or human beings were the property to me of others? But those who served within ones household, are to be Loved, provided for like ones own family, given an honest days work for an honest days wage?

Pondering on the teaching of the great Prophets Jesus John Baptist, Disciples, all heavily quote from OT do they not? Interesting all what they quote from, teach on, choose from OT? Left out all the rest of what laws, why nor did they preach on such Laws, did they?

Pondering on Our Heavenly Father is Love, He destroys not, nor would He Transgress His own Righteous Laws would He?
Our Heavenly Father, would be a liar and a transgressor of His own Laws>> All His own Thou shall not?
All Life is Sacred in the Blood, destroy not?
A Righteous God, who is Love > is the fullness of Love > cannot be half and half can he,His own House is not divided is it, right?

Jesus time had come, a huge radical teaching was coming to pass in His day, awaken, first spark HE tells us?
Jesus did a lot of rebuking, strongly, boldly, harshly to whom, or who and why?
Jesus time had come to > fulfill > the Prophecies Spoken of Him>> by the Prophets, is this not true?

Jesus teaching us all, we had to know first who was > LOVE> Our Creator to know >who is not of Him and when it is HE > LOVE is speaking? >Jeremiah 8:8

Then >1 Corinthians 13:1-13> 1 John 4:8 All flows now from the beginning of time till the end, does it not?
Peace

 

[rose321]

The Mosaic Code required that a slave should be freed if he suffered bodily injury at the hands of his master.

Respectfully pondering on, opinion only.

In Rome the master could mutilate or crucify a slave at his pleasure and abandon the sick among them to die of starvation.

The Greeks and Romans, who had no day of rest, derided the Jewish Sabbath as the devise of a lazy people; their slaves were doomed to incessant labor.

Respectfully opinion only all one Biblical OT quotes giving>>do they seem to go against the >>the Truth and full measure of Jesus teaching of the Righteous Laws of God, taught by Jesus?

No such barbarities were practiced among the Hebrews.

Jesus motto and known by all who knew Him, was I am The Way, The Truth and The Life follow Me,was it not?
Jesus was a Hebrew Israelite > Love your neighbor as you love yourself>>His instructions, teaching, then one only can fulfill the Ten Commandments?
Do onto others what you would want done unto you?
Live in >>The Way and Obey all the Thou shall not?
Peace

 

[rose321]

Have all you all looked on Amazon? There are TONS of books about slavery! More categories than mentioned here!

Who created human slavery, God or man? Tons of books on? God gave all Free Will and He gave His Ten Kingdom Laws, Ten Commandments, that give us instructions, to teach All Human
Beings, to know right from wrong>> Ten Commandments are Righteous Laws given to distribute,>>>> “Equality Rights, Freedom and Protection for All” to live by.

Not one Ten Commandment , tells us only >>>Woman are to obey the adultery Law not man>> does it? There is no He or She mentioned within The Ten Commandments either?

Not even our Creator holds anyone as a slave unto HIM, but through His Righteous Laws, gives Freedom, Free Will and Desire, nor does HE force anyone to Love HIM, does HE?

Written is it not?
What is Love if one is forced to Love? You take that kind of Love I do not accept?

Our Creator, Our Heavenly, also >>has Free Will to choose, and He allows us all to >>Share with Him in His Free Will also? Peace

 

[Athanasiy]

I in any case do not want to show, historically, the Jews innocent and untainted in relation to exploitation and the slave trade.
I quoted the author whose book I read, and there was just an episode I read.
With regard to Christian enlightenment, it was indeed the beginning of the gradual liberation of man from slavery, first of all from spiritual slavery and, of course, also the gradual liberation from physical slavery.
Historically, Christian enlightenment on the continents of the earth gradually freed people from slavery, despite the fact that for some time the Church adhered to the old understanding of slavery.

 

[Athanasiy]

Unfortunately slavery exists today in some African countries and some Latin American countries, where there is a whole farms of slaves.
I worked as a manager at the hotel and I had to come into contact with different travelers.
An American teacher working in Niger told me that he personally saw real slaves in Niger.
An Irishman living in Ecuador told me that he was even on a farm where people were imprisoned like slaves.
I think that this is possible in Brazil and today in Venesuelа.
Sexual slavery also takes place in Russia, Ukraine, countries in East Asia.
This can happen in refugee camps in third world countries, also in countries where there is a war, hunger, or devastation.
This is also the case in some Muslim countries, where girls and women are the most frequent victims.
Of course, people of good will and above all Christians must continue to fight bravely against the manifestation of slavery in any form and anywhere in the world.

 

[Athanasiy]

Today, there are not a few skeptics who believe that religion enslaves people.
There are those who believe that the role of the mother enslaves the woman.
There are quite a few opponents of the Christian idea of marriage, who believe that the very idea of such a marriage enslaves not only a woman but also a man.
In their opinion, Christian education enslaves children.
Of course that is only superficial and frivolous arguments can be put to.
In fact, the Christian revelation only brings freedom and liberation.
Even at the very beginning of early Christianity, this freedom could be felt by many slaves who were freed from sin and eternal destruction.
The most terrible form of enslavement for many today is sin.
It is the sin that keeps a person in the grip and is the cause of countless shackles and sufferings.
So the role of the Savior of the liberation from the bondage of slavery is of primary importance.

 

[rose321]

I quoted the author whose book I read, and there was just an episode I read.

Opinion only in pondering on. Thank you for ones kind reply first, nicely said, doing so respectfully also! Thank you

Did Jesus come also for the time had come and ended with such understanding of slavery and sacrifice also? Is this why Jesus on the
Temple porch became very upset taking a whip to those selling and destroying innocent animals? Thus putting an end to such practices the
Temple was destroyed? Been 2,000 years and started preparing the Hebrew Israelites when they were held in bondage in Bablyon where there was no Temple for 70 years to offer sacrifices? Thus Jesus sought to put an end to such practices? Jesus refers to the great Prophet Isaiah often, throughout his teaching?
Isaiah on slavery and what is true fasting , he desires of all His
Creation >Isaiah 58: 6-14
His Word on Sacrifices> Genesis 1:29, Isaiah 1: 9-16, Isaiah 43-45-46-47 within Isaiah God states does he not he never commanded such, Moses only allowed such because of their harden hearts, the time would come and did with Jesus who followed and his mission given also to preach and teach such and put an end to such abomination and desolation practices ?
Peace

 

[midori]

Is this why Jesus on the Temple porch became very upset taking a whip to those selling and destroying innocent animals? Thus putting an end to such practices the Temple was destroyed?

The Temple was destroyed by the Romans in the Siege of Jerusalem, about 30-40 years after Jesus’ death.

Jesus was upset because of the people who had turned the Temple into a marketplace. You had to sacrifice perfect animals to God. Poor people would come and bring an animal to the marketplace to sacrifice, the people would check it over and say, “Nope, not perfect enough-- but you can buy a better animal over here…” etc.

So it wasn’t about “let’s sacrifice our best to God”, but it’s “let’s line our pockets at the expense of the poor who have come to worship God.”

 

[rose321]

Jesus was upset because of the people who had turned the Temple into a marketplace. You had to sacrifice perfect animals to God.

So it wasn’t about “let’s sacrifice our best to God”, but it’s “let’s line our pockets at the expense of the poor who have come to worship God.

Respectfully doing both which there are many Biblical Verses God clearly tells He never commanded either? God clearly in Isaiah states he never commanded such?
Innocent animals being destroyed all Life is sacred in the blood, destroy not? Man needed saving so did the animals and all forms of Life he created? Right in the early beginnings of Genesis God does he not speak of Human Life, shed not blood and animals also? Noah story where there not more animals saved then Human beings one family of 8?
Nor slavery, thus Free Will given to all and all given the responsibility and commanded us>> to multiply, cultivate the earth, care for, nourish, protect and continue building upon the Goodness of all His Creation, allowing all to share in His Creation>>all being heirs to? Our Father prayer begins with Our Father?

Peace Interesting is all when pondering on.

 

[midori]

Could you copy-pasta the verse that you’re talking about?

The verses that come to my mind are saying, “A clean heart is better than empty motions” or “I’m tired of the prayers of thieves and murderers”.

Or are we making the argument that all of Deuteronomy and Leviticus-- which dictates the animal sacrifices-- was something that the priests and Levites made up?

 

[rose321]

It’s all about hypocrisy, about being concerned more about appearances than fixing true problems, about pointing at the flaws of others instead of ourselves. All good things, but none of these have anything about slavery. If you’re trying to make a point about Matthew 23 and slavery then let’s hear it.

Respectfully Matthew Chapter 23 is all about slavery and those set out to mislead, deceive others to enslave others?
Make them their property, to control them, by adding to and subtracting from His Spoken Word, would this be true? Jeremiah 8:8, Jeremiah 36:26, foretold?

Jesus identifies who they are with his woes?
Jesus judges them and calls them such for a reason? > Soothsayers? Money changers? hypocrites x 3? White washers? Blood vipers Judges them for >Placing heavy burdens on His people he did ask for?
Jesus Identifies them as being the children of their Father of Lies?
Where they mixing truths with lies for self interest maybe?

Also In John 8:44? Rev 12:9 Will deceive the whole world?

Not right. God says to love one another and God says one can beat a slave to death so long as they don’t die the same day because they are property. That’s a contradiction using God’s own words.

Are your sure God said such things? Prophet Jeremiah 8:8 gives us His Spoken Word for a reason?
No human being is a property of another are they?
Has our Heavenly Father since the beginning of time, gives us continued instructions, teachings through His chosen Prophets, to show us all > The Way of Life for all to live by for the good of all?

And one will find no Biblical verse that tells us such, but many biblical verses one is not to steal or defraud the laborer of his honest wages earned and biblical verses where we are ALL aliens, foreigners living on land not our own?

In ancient times were they called servants and God calls all to be servants does he not in all walks in Life of one another?

Defrauding a labor of his fair value of worth, labor> is stealing?
Do not steal the Free Will given to all His Creation? Matthew 5:37 Jesus teaches us, does he not? Let your yes be yes and your no be no?

Jesus came to identify those, with all His Woes, judging them ( Woe to you scribes and Pharisees) and states the errors of their ways>>Then again in John 8:44?
Just interesting the prophet Jeremiah 8:8?

Interesting is all, asking kindly.
Has one ever read The Panarion of Epiphanius of Salomis who was a Catholic Bishop?
Has one ever read The Recognition of Clement ( aka The Nazerene Acts?
Has one ever read The Clementine Homilies?
Has one ever read Jerome Letter to Augustine Letter 75?

Our Pope in his homilies teaches us, not to just rote the Commandments, but to live them and to practice tolerance, Love our neighbor as we love ourselves.

We are All Human Beings, we are All Brothers and Sisters, we all belong to The One Human Family > called > The Human Race.

We are all aliens or foreigners or strangers living on land not our own, as tenants, to share all with all our Brothers and Sisters for all have been freely given to. Peace

 

[Curious11]

I find that believers are the first to denounce moral relativism and the first to employ it in discussion.

Boy is that true. The fact that Jesus, the perfect, final revelation of the nature of God, who came to speak truth for all ages, didn’t condemn slavery, or even mandate universal literacy or free healthcare or whatever, says very little about God. Instead he came to die on a cross, and we’re supposed to thank him for that?

A bringer of un-relative truth for all ages didn’t condemn slavery for reasons of historical context? Seriously?

 

[goout]

All right, I know the answer. The Bible reports the facts. That does not mean it approves of the reported facts.
I just saw that question online and wondered how many of you have had the question posed to you as proof that Scripture condones slavery.

The bible reports facts.
It also has poetry, and many other types of genre.
The bible is a collection of books written in a specific culture at a specific time in history, in a specific language.

You say “the bible doesn’t approve of the reported facts”.
A book can’t approve of itself. Approval implies the authority to approve.
In Catholicism we see authority in God, as revealed in Jesus Christ. Fundamentalists and atheists want to have their own discussion. Ok…

There are many things written in the bible that are not explicitly condoned by Christianity or approved by their absence.
There are flawed scientific concepts.
Flawed theological concepts.
Flawed cultural and religious practices.
Sin.
Etc…

Inspiration accomplishes all that God wishes to accomplish, even through contradiction.

 

[Mike_from_NJ]

Hey, I forgot this thread existed for a time. Your posts deserve responses and I will get to them.

Until then I just want to note that I do want to make one distinction regarding slavery, which is as prisoners of war in defense of a land. Many ancient cultures did that. It’s not the greatest thing in the world. but it’s a far cry from the slavery as outlined in the Bible – which as I’ve pointed out includes the purchasing of slaves from neighboring nations, children born into slavery, children sold into slavery, and the blackmail of male Hebrew slaves to serve for life by witholding their families.

Back when CAF was down for several days between good ol’ yellow background CAF and the version we have now I called into EWTN’s Open Line Wednesday with Fr. Mitch Pacwa. I don’t know if they archive their shows, but if they do you should be able to find the one with my less-than-illustrious voice. Anyway, I specifically asked about the Church repeatedly allowing slavery of the peoples in the Canary Islands. I specifically chose that region because they were not at war with the people of the Canary Islands. Unfortunately, despite taking that distinction out of the equation, his response was to talk specifically about prisoners of war.

So I will respond back to all of your posts when I can. Thanks, and hope those of you that believe had a good Holy Week.

 

[MonteRCMS]

Presentism (historical analysis) - Wikipedia

some excerpts:

Presentism is also a factor in the problematic question of history and moral judgments. Among historians, the orthodox view may be that reading modern notions of morality into the past is to commit the error of presentism. To avoid this, historians restrict themselves to describing what happened and attempt to refrain from using language that passes judgment. For example, when writing history about slavery in an era when the practice was widely accepted, letting that fact influence judgment about a group or individual would be presentist and thus should be avoided.

Critics respond that to avoid moral judgments is to practice moral relativism, a controversial idea. Some religious historians argue that morality is timeless, having been established by God; they say it is not anachronistic to apply timeless standards to the past. (In this view, while mores may change, morality does not.)

Sam Harris also argues that morality is timeless but is based on a rational understanding of human well-being rather than ordained by a god.[5]

Others argue that application of religious standards has varied over time as well. Saint Augustine, for example, holds that there exist timeless moral principles, but contends that certain practices (such as polygamy) were acceptable in the past because they were customary but now are neither customary nor acceptable.[6]

Fischer, for his part, writes that while historians might not always manage to avoid the fallacy completely, they should at least try to be aware of their biases and write history in such a way that they do not create a distorted depiction of the past.[3]

 

[MonteRCMS]

In addition, there is the role of political correctness.

For example, there is ONE GROUP that maximized [and STILL DOES] the slave trade, but to mention their name is to invite death upon yourself.

No joke.