Why are there very few celebate protestant pastors?

[4Squarebaby]

That would be a conflict of interest and could lead to the Session or denomination asking him to step down. He would have to find his honey elsewhere.

After teaching to his flock that it may be best to find their honey among each other?

 

[nhylan]

I’m a little late to this discussion but I would agree with the commenter who said that it might be a little more pervasive that you thought.

A rather unique instance is Bishop Tom Shaw, head of the Episcopal Diocese of Massachusetts, who is a celibate monk. He is a member of the Society of St. John the Evangelist in Cambridge Ma.

 

[Tomyris]

After teaching to his flock that it may be best to find their honey among each other?

I’ve never heard a pastor address the subject, to my recollection. Christians should date other Christians, but I have NEVER heard anyone say never date anyone outside that particular church. That sounds like a cult. Eww.

 

[4Squarebaby]

I’ve never heard a pastor address the subject, to my recollection. Christians should date other Christians, but I have NEVER heard anyone say never date anyone outside that particular church. That sounds like a cult. Eww.

It depends upon how broadly the local church defines the church. In some cases as, with our host or the SDA the teaching does reccomend that home organization and unless you are in a big city that may leave one congregation within range for a traditional dating relationship. In other cases like the JW or INC should we get to marriage someone will have to convert.

 

[masuwerte]

From the Articles of Religion of the Philippine Independent Church:

“Bishops, Priests and Deacons are not commanded by God’s law to marry or to abstain from marriage, therefore they are permitted to marry at their own discretion, as they shall judge the same to serve better to godliness.”

Just my .7 piso

 

[rcwitness]

From the Articles of Religion of the Philippine Independent Church:

“Bishops, Priests and Deacons are not commanded by God’s law to marry or to abstain from marriage, therefore they are permitted to marry at their own discretion, as they shall judge the same to serve better to godliness.”

Just my .7 piso

But the question is:
Why are there so few single/celibate protestant pastors? Do you know any? Im not saying i dont think they should or shouldnt.
I personally think they should be Catholic but since they are not, and free not to be, they are not wrong according to what they are preaching. I do not accuse them. But this fact of a very, very few in existance, even to the point of most churches not allowing it is interesting to me. I think within Catholic celibacy there are pros and cons. but thats not the point of my question. And the fact that protestant pastors are free to marry or not is not the debate in my thread either.
Im glad you posted that teaching, i just hope you will share your opinion too

Thanks,
Michael

 

[Cat]

But the question is:
Why are there so few single/celibate protestant pastors? Do you know any? Im not saying i dont think they should or shouldnt.
I personally think they should be Catholic but since they are not, and free not to be, they are not wrong according to what they are preaching. I do not accuse them. But this fact of a very, very few in existance, even to the point of most churches not allowing it is interesting to me. I think within Catholic celibacy there are pros and cons. but thats not the point of my question. And the fact that protestant pastors are free to marry or not is not the debate in my thread either.
Im glad you posted that teaching, i just hope you will share your opinion too

Thanks,
Michael

You want my opinion?

Remember, I spent the first 47 years of my life as an Evangelical Protestant.

I think that most men, especially Christian men, should seek a wife, marry her, and have as many children with her as they are called to have. We need more children in this world, especially children who are raised up to love Jesus Christ and serve Him.

Yes, Protestants do not have the “full gospel” of the Catholic Church, but they have a portion of the Gospel, and according to the Catechism of the Catholic Church, that portion of the Gospel is good. And they have the hope of heaven because of their baptism.

When it comes to priests and marriage, from what I understand of Catholic Church teaching, priestly celibacy is a discipline, not a dogma or doctrine. Since it is a discipline, it can be changed at any time. As long as the Church asks that the priests remain unmarried, then I support my Church. If my Church should change this requirement, then I will support my Church.

I think it’s a very bad idea for Catholics to become hyper-attached to a Church DISCIPLINE, because then when the Church changes that discipline, or eliminates it entirely, the Catholic is upset, emotional, and often combative. It would be better to simply gratefully accept whatever disciplines the Church asks of us at the time in history when we are alive rather than longing for the past or fearing for the future.

 

[rcwitness]

You want my opinion?

Remember, I spent the first 47 years of my life as an Evangelical Protestant.

I think that most men, especially Christian men, should seek a wife, marry her, and have as many children with her as they are called to have. We need more children in this world, especially children who are raised up to love Jesus Christ and serve Him.

Yes, Protestants do not have the “full gospel” of the Catholic Church, but they have a portion of the Gospel, and according to the Catechism of the Catholic Church, that portion of the Gospel is good. And they have the hope of heaven because of their baptism.

When it comes to priests and marriage, from what I understand of Catholic Church teaching, priestly celibacy is a discipline, not a dogma or doctrine. Since it is a discipline, it can be changed at any time. As long as the Church asks that the priests remain unmarried, then I support my Church. If my Church should change this requirement, then I will support my Church.

I think it’s a very bad idea for Catholics to become hyper-attached to a Church DISCIPLINE, because then when the Church changes that discipline, or eliminates it entirely, the Catholic is upset, emotional, and often combative. It would be better to simply gratefully accept whatever disciplines the Church asks of us at the time in history when we are alive rather than longing for the past or fearing for the future.

I agree with you. So…i just cant get too many opinions from non-Cats about almost zero pastors. There were a couple good direct responses.

Their main points being:

Some feel Paul made having a wife and family a recommendation because this is a way to determine if he could manage a flock

Some feel having a wife and children give the pastor a closer relation to the flock by means of experience

maybe some other points were made that arent coming to me right now. but I do think these are at least reasonable and good ones. however, it doesnt account for almost all of them choosing marriage, in my opinion. If being single according to Paul is also a gift from God and one that is, in his opinion easier to devote oneself wholy to God, then why aren’t there at least a more balanced number of them?

Is this question not making sense to anyone? Maybe I am making something out of nothing? Does anyone else think it strange?

 

[Bonnie]

St. Paul focused on the men, saying they would be better able to serve God while single.

I remember a survey of Protestant ministers & their wives done some years ago, & (IIRC) both husbands & wives said it was very hard on their marriages & many said that if they had to do it over again, they wouldn’t.

It’s similar to being married to a doctor or police officer with the stress, & on top of that, the wives are expected to “minister” too, as well as being perfect wives, mothers, & hostesses.

Some husband & wife ministering teams work, but on the whole, it’s hard on families.

 

[andrewstx]

I had a book written by a Methodist minister that said “It is imperative for a Protestant minister to have a wife he wishes to ascend to the bishopric. If he wants he can be as celibate as a Cistercian monk he may, but he must do so in the married state.”

The first church I was a member of after I escaped my parents church of Christ control was Episcopal with a celibate vicar who was ultra high church, I thought all Episcopal rectors and vicars were celibate as well. When I moved to a larger city I was very surprised, the church there was more middle stump Episcopal. With married clergy and only Mass 2 sundays a month. That was before RCIA and I started Catholic instruction very soon after.

 

[rcwitness]

Ok, so I will try to give my opinion
I think from protestants (non Catholic Christians) point of view, looking at Paul’s letter to Timothy and the qualifications for a Bishop give them a strong impression that a man “should” have a wife and children in order to attest wheather he is able to manage children of God. I believe the intention here is that a man should only have ONE wife and that most likely he was called to his service by God already being married. This is the first generation of converts! Being married most likely, he must have his family well managed. And what better way for a young Church to determine the integrity of a man than by his family? But thats a point, the Church was still young and still forming its grooming process for pastors, priests, deacons, and bishops.

Now, to the Corinthians (1st Cor 7) he expounds on his opinion, “as one who by the Lord’s mercy is trustworthy” and again, “But in my judgment…And I think that I have the Spirit of God.”

While, of course, he acknowledges if a man does not have the self control it is better for him to marry, he clearly expresses the benefit to those who have a gift of self control of remaining single in order to be free from anxieties, worldly troubles, and undivided devotion to the Lord.

“So he who marries his betrothed does well; and he who refrains from marriage will do better.”

I am not trying to interpret this because I don’t think it demands interpreting! He is as clear as day. So, I believe there is an unhealthy balance of married men in the protestant church. It is not my job to judge any pastor for choosing marriage. That is his choice and he probably should have. What I am saying, is that there should be a number of men who God has given the self control and gift of complete devotion to His service responding to the call of shepherding the flock. Definitlely not all of them, but some! How is it that many men are called to the vocation of Catholic Priesthood all over the world and celibacy doesnt hinder them, but we don’t see any protestant pastors desiring this kind of undivided devotion to God? I believe because protestantism has made too many compromises. It has chosen a more “worldy” system for church.

Please take my bold statements with a little salt I realize many men and women in the denominations have great faith. I am very low in the body of Christ. But my statements are concerning the doctrines and choices Protestants and Catholics make as a whole. Not that they are completely seperate either. I will always have brotherly fellowship with my protestant friends and family.

In the end, like Paul only not nearly as trustworthy I am only sharing my opinion. I may very well learn a better way…ok?

God Bless,
Michael

 

[Cat]

I agree with you. So…i just cant get too many opinions from non-Cats about almost zero pastors. There were a couple good direct responses.

Their main points being:

Some feel Paul made having a wife and family a recommendation because this is a way to determine if he could manage a flock

Some feel having a wife and children give the pastor a closer relation to the flock by means of experience

maybe some other points were made that arent coming to me right now. but I do think these are at least reasonable and good ones. however, it doesnt account for almost all of them choosing marriage, in my opinion. If being single according to Paul is also a gift from God and one that is, in his opinion easier to devote oneself wholy to God, then why aren’t there at least a more balanced number of them?

Is this question not making sense to anyone? Maybe I am making something out of nothing? Does anyone else think it strange?

I think one of the things that you and all the rest of us are skirting around is the sex issue.

Many men (and women, too, but the physiology is not the same as for a man) have a lot of sexual desires. It’s the way God made men, because their desire for sex compells them to seek a wife, marry her, and have sex with her, which brings about children. That’s the way our world keeps growing! It’s God’s plan.

Priests and others who are called to celibacy are given special graces by God to be able to deal with their sexual desires in a holy way.

But men who are NOT called to the priesthood or religious life should strive to get married. If they don’t, they “burn” as St. Paul said. Men risk losing control and getting involved with sinful sexual practices.

I’m not exactly sure that there is such a thing as a “vocation” to singleness. I don’t want to offend those who are single, but…I’ve never really heard compelling arguments about this. ALL the apostles who were not married were priests, right?

I’m not sure why people are single. I think…don’t hit me!..that it has something to do with our sin. War, homosexuality, self-centeredness, and other sins cause a shortage of men who are actively seeking a wife.

I could be wrong, and perhaps there really is a vocation to singleness without a religious life or priesthood. I’m open to arguments!

But at any rate, I believe MOST men should get married so that they have an outlet for their sexual desires.

Now I’m not stupid here, everyone! I know that most married men continue to masturbate, even if they get all the sex they want from their wife. I know that most men, married and single, are involved to a certain extent in pornography, even if they get all the sex they want with their wife. And some married men continue to have sex with mutliple female partners, or with other men, or with…well, let’s not go there.

Marriage is not a cure-all for sexual sin. Some men do not have control over their sexual desires even after they are married, and even if their wife willingly welcomes her husband to her bed whenever he asks.

BUT…at least marriage gives a man a holy way to deal with his sexual desires. It’s up to him to take that holy way, and cleave to his WIFE.

And St. Paul understood that, and wrote about it in the New Testament.

So, as long as you want my opinion, I would say that unless they are called to the priesthood or to a consecrated religious life, men SHOULD seek a wife (a WOMAN, not a man) and get married, because this is the way that God intended for a man to live out his sexual life–within the context of a marrriage to a woman. The man and his wife will have to spend their entire marriage working out the logistics of sex (how often, techniques, etc.), but that’s part of the “fun” of being married!

 

[rcwitness]

Thanks Cat,
I think you are making great points. I havent gotten into the details of sex and its desires, though that is the force behind the issue. Your statements about sexual sins not just being taken care of after one gets married is very true. And you also, in a matter of fact way, seem to express how men with the self control Paul talks about and choose to be single just go into the priesthood. But isnt that a bit like saying, men who have self control and are seeking more devotion to the Lord are becoming Priests. Obviously not all of the men becoming priests should have! And obviously not all the men who become protestant pastors are weak in faith or less devoted to God.

I dont think I am comparing this man to that man. That is wrong. But more of what Paul is saying. If “A” man gets married, he will have some worldly troubles and divided attention. Not sinfully! But if that same man remains decidedly single because he has control, then he will have less anxiety over wordly issues and more attention for the Lord. So, where are the men who have realized this and decided to offer this kind of devotion to the Lord? They are not in the protestant church. Save some very few exceptions.

Michael