- Status
P
PJM
Guest
Because Michael,
God chooses whom He WHATS for the Priesthood and religious life.
**John.15: 16 **“You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit and that your fruit should abide; so that whatever you ask the Father in my name, he may give it to you”
IMO
Because protestant religions compete with what is clearly stated in the bible as Gods Divine and Perfect Will for:
Only One God
Having Only One set of Faith beliefs
And having founded ONLY One Church
Psalms 127:1
“Unless the Lord builds the house, those who build it labor in vain. Unless the Lord watches over the city, the watchman stays awake in vain.”
**Mt. 10:1-8 **
"And having called his twelve disciples together, he gave them power over unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of diseases, and all manner of infirmities. And the names of the twelve apostles are these: The first, Simon who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother, James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother, Philip and Bartholomew, Thomas and Matthew, and James the son of Alpheus, and Thaddeus, [4] Simon the Cananean, and Judas Iscariot, who also betrayed him. These twelve Jesus sent: commanding them, saying: Go ye not into the way of the Gentiles, and into the city of the Samaritans enter ye not. But go ye rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. And going, preach, saying: The kingdom of heaven is at hand. Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse the lepers, cast out devils
Romans 13: 2 “Therefore he who resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment.”
Eph. 2:19-20 “So then you are no longer strangers and sojourners, but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone, in whom the whole structure is joined together and grows into a holy temple in the Lord; in whom you also are built into it for a dwelling place of God in the Spirit.”
Acts.20: 28 “Take heed to yourselves and to all the flock, in which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to care for the church of God [singular] which he obtained with the blood of his Son"
One Church
**Eph. 4: 1-7 **“I therefore, a prisoner for the Lord, beg you to lead a life worthy of the calling to which you have been called, with all lowliness and meekness, with patience, forbearing one another in love, eager to maintain the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to the one hope that belongs to your call, one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of us all, who is above all and through all and in all. But grace was given to each of us according to the measure of Christ’s gift".
John.10: 16 “And I have other sheep, that are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they will heed my voice. So there shall be one flock, one shepherd”
R
rcwitness
Guest
Ok, i am really seaking protestant opinions. Obviously everyones opinion is cool, but I want this to be friendly and welcoming to the protestant view. I dont think accussations of not following the bible are appropriate. I have some opinions, but want to hear direct protestant thoughts about it. I think it is a very relavent question to their church life and opinion of God’s will.
Thanks,
Michael
Thanks,
Michael
O
Offdoodykcrn
Guest
I didn’t say celibacy is unnatural. I suggested one side of a hypothetical argument. Actually, it would be quite hypocritical of me to do so, since my husband passed away in 2011. I don’t ridicule, look down or condemn celibacy but I don’t see it as a ‘beautiful gift from God’. I believe it is a personal, private choice, and it doesn’t make anyone better or worse than anyone else.
Peace be with you.
4
4Squarebaby
Guest
The few off the top of my head I can think of have made public testimonies on overcoming homosexuality and child abuse. Like Pastor and gospel singer Donnie Mcclurkin
Well it depends upon the church organizational structure if a Pastor or a board of deacons/their deputy is most responsible for administration. The public face of the local body “pastor” is more the chief teaching elder, and is normally the senior pastor although at times the chief teacher may be being groomed to take over but for social reasons the emeritus pastor had not yet retired. The exception being in denominations which don’t allow women pastors so her husband would carry the title senior pastor
T
TC2
Guest
Celibate, or single?
I’m certain that there are protestant churches with single pastors, I just don’t know of any around here. There may be some, there are certainly plenty of churches.
Celibate? As in, vowed never to marry? Well, Baptists don’t do that, that I’m aware of. If a single pastor did, I’m not sure how he’d be received. Baptist churches are autonomous, so it would be on a church by church decision, I guess.
I’m certain that there are protestant churches with single pastors, I just don’t know of any around here. There may be some, there are certainly plenty of churches.
Celibate? As in, vowed never to marry? Well, Baptists don’t do that, that I’m aware of. If a single pastor did, I’m not sure how he’d be received. Baptist churches are autonomous, so it would be on a church by church decision, I guess.
J
jrtrent
Guest
I agree. I should think anyone who demonstrates, or, if older, has demonstrated, what those words say would make a much more desirable candidate for pastor than a man who has always been single.
He must be one who is a good head to his own family, and keeps his children in order by winning their full respect; if a man has not learned how to manage his own household, will he know how to govern God’s church? 1 Timothy 3:4-5
R
rcwitness
Guest
I agree its a personal, private choice. It doesn’t make anyone “better” than anyone else.
But it certainly is a gift from God! (1st Corinthians 7:7)What are you saying here? This person is single and overcame these temptations? And then became a pastor?
You raise a good question! I think celibate, because just single is not a commitment. And im curious if there are prtpotestant pastors decidedly single. I think like someone mentioned, if one begins single, its prob not for long. Girls dig em! I dont think many denominations would choose a single pastor.Celibate, or single?
I’m certain that there are protestant churches with single pastors, I just don’t know of any around here. There may be some, there are certainly plenty of churches.
Celibate? As in, vowed never to marry? Well, Baptists don’t do that, that I’m aware of. If a single pastor did, I’m not sure how he’d be received. Baptist churches are autonomous, so it would be on a church by church decision, I guess.
I agree (if i was in the protestant church) in choosing a pastor, i wouldnt think a single man better than a married just because of that fact. But they obviously are not choosing them. So either they exist and arent chosen or they just dont really exist for some reason.
R
rcwitness
Guest
I will share a little of my opinion because i think, it seems, to be a difficult question for protestants to answer.
I think it is a good question because Paul expresses how a married man is anxious about things of the world, how to please his wife and his interests are divided. The unmarried man is anxious about the affairs of the Lord, how to please the Lord. Now, i dont think being single or celibate as opposed to married should be a deciding factor in choosing a pastor. But only (and i sound like a broken record) that there apparently no, or extremely few, single men chosen to be pastors of these churches. I am not wondering if it is better or worse. I am not wondering if it is right or wrong to require celibacy for priests. I am curious why these churches are not choosing men who have, like Paul, realized that it is better for them to be single in order to devote themselves more undivided to the Lord…? So far, no one has said they knew a single pastor. One who is hired and pastoring a church. This is very strange to me. Not that there are many married pastors, but nearly NO single ones! Are there no protestant pastors who have this gift of self control and undevided devotion to the Lord? Or maybe if they do have this self control and devotion they are more directed to the Catholic faith?
Respectfully,
Michael
I think it is a good question because Paul expresses how a married man is anxious about things of the world, how to please his wife and his interests are divided. The unmarried man is anxious about the affairs of the Lord, how to please the Lord. Now, i dont think being single or celibate as opposed to married should be a deciding factor in choosing a pastor. But only (and i sound like a broken record) that there apparently no, or extremely few, single men chosen to be pastors of these churches. I am not wondering if it is better or worse. I am not wondering if it is right or wrong to require celibacy for priests. I am curious why these churches are not choosing men who have, like Paul, realized that it is better for them to be single in order to devote themselves more undivided to the Lord…? So far, no one has said they knew a single pastor. One who is hired and pastoring a church. This is very strange to me. Not that there are many married pastors, but nearly NO single ones! Are there no protestant pastors who have this gift of self control and undevided devotion to the Lord? Or maybe if they do have this self control and devotion they are more directed to the Catholic faith?
Respectfully,
Michael
4
4Squarebaby
Guest
That is his public testimony, along with a statement that gay political activist have a bounty out on him to find him with a man, much like Hustler magazine publisher Larry Flint once did against Republican politicians in sex scandals after the President Clinton impeachment.
As with many names in the music and gospel music world he has claimed abuse while a boy and singing in church.
C
Charolettestar
Guest
Thank you for this post. Among things my hubster and I are talking about. As far as Protestant pastors, not only did Luther put that into his “confession”, but especially here, it’s that it’s part of society. I also have heard the verses be paraphrased that if you need a wife, get one. We haven’t made it that far into the cathecism to hear it out, so I hope you get better answers from other people who have protestant background.
R
rcwitness
Guest
God bless you in your search! I want people to know that i am not against the denominations. I think of them as Catholic, just for different personal reasons not in full communion or understanding of the Catholic faith. So many of us Catholics who do believe in the teachings also struggle to honor them (theachings). And as a result do not follow God’s will in their actual life. But this aspect of protestant pastors being overwhelmingly married is something of a sign. Im not making any decided conclussions as to what it means yet. I want to hear opinions from them first as to why they think this is the state of their churches. After all, i hear plenty of accussations that required celibacy of Catholic priests is wrong, so i want to look at the result of their choice, which is by leaving it up to the choice of the ministers and congregation has resulted in almost zero single or celibate pastors in existence. And if anything, i feel the congregations only choose married men to be their shepherd as an “unwritten” requirement.
Easter blessings!
Michael
B
BettyBoop416
Guest
You’ve obviously never seen the mothers of marriagable daughters in action! Those few single pastors do not stay single for very long. Sometimes I think they marry in self-defense.
T
Tomyris
Guest
I’m not faulting the Catholic Church here, and please do not assume that this is an attack. This is a viewpoint shared by many Protestants.
When an EPC church, for example, needs a new pastor, a pastoral selection committee is established. Candidates are sought, resumes and applications made, and one or a few candidates may be interviewed. The Scriptural guidelines such as in 1 Tom 3:1-7 are used to determine a candidate’s qualifications, among other things. There you will see it is normative for a candidate to be a ‘husband of one wife’ and to have children. How he manages his own family will be examined for his suitability for managing a church. The candidacy of a single person would be dead on arrival for that reason, or he would have to have something on the resume that tremendously outweighs this disqualification.
More than that, the congregation would object to an unmarried pastor. Frequently when a woman is meeting with the pastor for counseling, his wife is there. I would not feel comfortable meeting with him alone. And if he had a female “partner” who was in this role, that would be an invitation to scandal. He also would not understand what it is to be in a family situation as husband, so people would not ask his advice. I would not. I think there would be a suspicion that he is dysfunctional or “too heavenly minded to do any earthly good” and unable to win himself a woman, which is the real reason he is celibate. There would be an assumption of a lack of masculinity, being off track spiritually, and worse, homosexuality or other perversions. My husband just told me he would have no respect for an unmarried pastor (he would also be uncomfortable meeting with him alone) and if a church called one, at least half the congregation would leave. The view that it is not Scriptural for a pastor to be unmarried is one widely shared among Protestants.
Paul’s role was unique. He was also not a pastor serving in a local church, so his example of celibacy does not apply. He was the one who stipulated marriage as a requirement for a pastor, and he was not being hypocritical. I’ve known celibate missionaries serving in difficult areas of the world where their lives are threatened continually, but they are not called to plant or lead churches as much as simply preach, encourage and strengthen the believers in the churches they go to. That was more what Paul’s role was than what a pastor’s role is.
S
Sarcelle
Guest
I agree. There is a requirement for a pastor to be married. I remember when I was a member of the Church of Christ. Our pastor got divorced and was newly single. Although he was a qualified pastor and was a wonder shepherd the congregation “fired” him. The same goes for elders in the church. There were a lot of older single men who by one reason or another were single by reason of death of a spouse, divorce or were never married. They were never considered for the position of elders. Married men whose grown children were not devout members of the Church of Christ were not also considered for the position of elder.
There seems to be a suspicion of single people, especially single men in Protestant churches. To many, it seems unnatural, disordered. I know a lot of single Evangelical Christian men who have quit going to church because a lot of people had viewed them with suspicion at best and contempt and derision at worst.
C
Cat
Guest
I’m no longer Protestant, but I spent 47 years as an Evangelical Protestant, and I’ll try to give you some insight into why Protestant pastors are usually married.
First, I think you need to understand that there is a big difference between a Protestant pastor and a Catholic priest. A priest has two duties–to pray the Office (the prayers of the Church), and to offer Mass. All his other duties are done according to the needs of his parish, and can be done by others, including laypeople and often women laypeople, but the priest MUST attend to the Office and the Mass. The Mass is particularly important because laypeople can’t do this, only a priest can offer Mass.
But a Protestant pastor is not responsible for a “Mass.” He is a “shepherd.” (That’s what “pastor” means.) He uses whatever his spiritual gifts are in his calling to shepherd his congregation. Some pastors are administrators, some are teachers, some are preachers/exhorters, some are evangelists, some show mercy, some are hospitable, etc. There are some pastors who have multiple spiritual gifts, but most have their “areas of speciality,” and they are hired (or “called”) by a church based on whether their gifts match the needs of a specific church.
In most Protestant churches, the pastor is no more “spiritual” or “holy” than anyone else in the church. In fact, in many Protestant churches, there is no concept of “sainthood” because ALL Christians are considered “saints,” and ALL Christians are forgiven of all their sins, past, present, and future. So there is complete equality between the lay people and the pastor. The pastor is just the “hired” leader of the church.
Also, many Protestant churches have female pastors. Most Evangelical Protestant churches don’t have female pastors, but many have female teachers or administrators.
Second, I think you need to be very very careful about saying that an unmarried person can more fully devote themselves to the Lord. Yes, they have an undivided devotion to the Lord, but to imply that a single (celibate) person can be more fully devoted to the Lord just doesn’t set well. There’s something incorrect about that, but I am not theologian enough to be able to explain it. Perhaps someone else can do this.
At any rate, in Protestant theology, there is no such thing as a “consecrated” religious, and no concept that a married person has “less” devotion than a single person.
Protestants do not look upon the “single” or “celibate” state as having any “spiritual superiority”. In fact, I would say that this is probably one reason why Protestants are not particularly impressed with or enamored of the Virgin Mary. They don’t see a virgin as more “pure” than a married woman who is having sex with a husband. To Protestants (at least Evangelical Protestants), there is no concept that virginity is “better” or “more pure” or “more holy” than married sex.
I hope I am explaining this adequately for you.
Third, the main and simplest answer to your question is that most Protestant pastors, male or female, are married because there is no requirement in their denomination for pastors to remained unmarried. So why would they avoid marriage?!
In fact, many male pastors in the smaller Evangelical Protestant churches count on their wives to be helpers in their ministry. When I first saw this topic on Catholic Answers, my first thought was, “Of course the pastor has to be married! He needs someone to play the piano during his worship services!”
I’m pretty serious about that piano answer! Almost every pastor I knew in the Protestant churches had a wife who played the piano during his worship services! If she didn’t play piano, she probably taught one of the biggest Sunday school classes (women only), or had some other huge ministry with women in the church. I grew up in the church where Evelyn Christenson was my pastor’s wife. (Evangelical Protestants will recognize that name and be very impressed!) She had a gigantic prayer ministry with hundreds of women in attendance at her meetings (including my mother). Look up her books. And yes, she also played the piano!
So I think it’s safe to say that for a lot of Protestant pastors, the spouse is almost equal with them when it comes to their ministry in their church. Yes, many spouses, especially the female spouses, take time out of ministry to raise their children (and there are often MANY children in the homes of Protestant pastors! In the last Protestant church that I was part of, the Senior pastor had ten children and the Associate pastor had eight children).
I think that you’re trying to compare pastors and priests, and it’s just not an accurate comparison. I also think you’re assuming that Protestant theology is the same as Catholic theology, and it isn’t.
Good question, though. If I were you, I would talk to some Protestant pastors about it.
First, I think you need to understand that there is a big difference between a Protestant pastor and a Catholic priest. A priest has two duties–to pray the Office (the prayers of the Church), and to offer Mass. All his other duties are done according to the needs of his parish, and can be done by others, including laypeople and often women laypeople, but the priest MUST attend to the Office and the Mass. The Mass is particularly important because laypeople can’t do this, only a priest can offer Mass.
But a Protestant pastor is not responsible for a “Mass.” He is a “shepherd.” (That’s what “pastor” means.) He uses whatever his spiritual gifts are in his calling to shepherd his congregation. Some pastors are administrators, some are teachers, some are preachers/exhorters, some are evangelists, some show mercy, some are hospitable, etc. There are some pastors who have multiple spiritual gifts, but most have their “areas of speciality,” and they are hired (or “called”) by a church based on whether their gifts match the needs of a specific church.
In most Protestant churches, the pastor is no more “spiritual” or “holy” than anyone else in the church. In fact, in many Protestant churches, there is no concept of “sainthood” because ALL Christians are considered “saints,” and ALL Christians are forgiven of all their sins, past, present, and future. So there is complete equality between the lay people and the pastor. The pastor is just the “hired” leader of the church.
Also, many Protestant churches have female pastors. Most Evangelical Protestant churches don’t have female pastors, but many have female teachers or administrators.
Second, I think you need to be very very careful about saying that an unmarried person can more fully devote themselves to the Lord. Yes, they have an undivided devotion to the Lord, but to imply that a single (celibate) person can be more fully devoted to the Lord just doesn’t set well. There’s something incorrect about that, but I am not theologian enough to be able to explain it. Perhaps someone else can do this.
At any rate, in Protestant theology, there is no such thing as a “consecrated” religious, and no concept that a married person has “less” devotion than a single person.
Protestants do not look upon the “single” or “celibate” state as having any “spiritual superiority”. In fact, I would say that this is probably one reason why Protestants are not particularly impressed with or enamored of the Virgin Mary. They don’t see a virgin as more “pure” than a married woman who is having sex with a husband. To Protestants (at least Evangelical Protestants), there is no concept that virginity is “better” or “more pure” or “more holy” than married sex.
I hope I am explaining this adequately for you.
Third, the main and simplest answer to your question is that most Protestant pastors, male or female, are married because there is no requirement in their denomination for pastors to remained unmarried. So why would they avoid marriage?!
In fact, many male pastors in the smaller Evangelical Protestant churches count on their wives to be helpers in their ministry. When I first saw this topic on Catholic Answers, my first thought was, “Of course the pastor has to be married! He needs someone to play the piano during his worship services!”
I’m pretty serious about that piano answer! Almost every pastor I knew in the Protestant churches had a wife who played the piano during his worship services! If she didn’t play piano, she probably taught one of the biggest Sunday school classes (women only), or had some other huge ministry with women in the church. I grew up in the church where Evelyn Christenson was my pastor’s wife. (Evangelical Protestants will recognize that name and be very impressed!) She had a gigantic prayer ministry with hundreds of women in attendance at her meetings (including my mother). Look up her books. And yes, she also played the piano!
So I think it’s safe to say that for a lot of Protestant pastors, the spouse is almost equal with them when it comes to their ministry in their church. Yes, many spouses, especially the female spouses, take time out of ministry to raise their children (and there are often MANY children in the homes of Protestant pastors! In the last Protestant church that I was part of, the Senior pastor had ten children and the Associate pastor had eight children).
I think that you’re trying to compare pastors and priests, and it’s just not an accurate comparison. I also think you’re assuming that Protestant theology is the same as Catholic theology, and it isn’t.
Good question, though. If I were you, I would talk to some Protestant pastors about it.
P
Publisher
Guest
Not all Protestants believe one’s sin’s are “forgiven, past, present and future”…but you are correct on the equality issue. “Consecrated” means “santified”…we all are to seek 'consecration/sanctification" of your lives…“In Christ there is neither male nor female…bond nor free…Jew or Gentile…but all are one in Him”…each of us have a role to play in the Body of Christ, be it “hand”, 'foot" or some “unseemly organ” no one wants to speak of.
If marriage is open to those who want to get married and not forbidden…why would a Protestant pastor not want to be married if he or she wanted to? There is no reason that celibacy is any more “holy” than marriage…better to marry than to “burn”. However, as I stated earlier…I have known celibate pastors…a few women pastors who decided to live a life time of celibacy and devote themselves to church work…but it wasn’t necessary for them to do so…they chose to do so.
If marriage is open to those who want to get married and not forbidden…why would a Protestant pastor not want to be married if he or she wanted to? There is no reason that celibacy is any more “holy” than marriage…better to marry than to “burn”.
However, as I stated earlier…I have known celibate pastors…a few women pastors who decided to live a life time of celibacy and devote themselves to church work…but it wasn’t necessary for them to do so…they chose to do so.
R
rcwitness
Guest
Tomyris,
Sarcelle,
Cat,
Publisher,
Great responses! Thanks for them. There are lots of reasons you’ve mentioned that i think are why these pastors are only married. I hope to hear more, though.
As for thinking I am comparing ptotestant pastors and Catholic pastors unfairly, well…that i dont understand. I realize they have different theology! I was raised non denominational/evangelical free. I became Catholic on my own (that is, without my familiy’s direction). I even worked as a youth group leader in an evangelical free church after becoming Catholic. I have many protestant friends including a pastor i have discussed this with. So, when i feel i have come to a conclussion, myself, about why they dont exist. I will lay it out. But i will give it some time and help from all who respond.
Thanks,
Michael
Sarcelle,
Cat,
Publisher,
Great responses! Thanks for them. There are lots of reasons you’ve mentioned that i think are why these pastors are only married. I hope to hear more, though.
As for thinking I am comparing ptotestant pastors and Catholic pastors unfairly, well…that i dont understand. I realize they have different theology! I was raised non denominational/evangelical free. I became Catholic on my own (that is, without my familiy’s direction). I even worked as a youth group leader in an evangelical free church after becoming Catholic. I have many protestant friends including a pastor i have discussed this with. So, when i feel i have come to a conclussion, myself, about why they dont exist. I will lay it out. But i will give it some time and help from all who respond.
Thanks,
Michael
C
Carina20
Guest
Most churches I have been to the pastor has already been married for a while before he even became a pastor (while in seminary). I mean, could you picture a pastor over a congregation trying to date? How would that look? With all the depserate single women in church, that could be a disaster.
Yes! On another Christian website it talks about ‘beautiful love story’ of Martin Luther and Katharina von Bora. Basically stating, “If a former nun and former priest can get married and have a happy life, so can you.”
T
Tomyris
Guest
That would be a conflict of interest and could lead to the Session or denomination asking him to step down. He would have to find his honey elsewhere.
- Status