Why are we dividing ourselves?

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catharina,

I see you were my age in 1970. That explains alot. These heretics and clowns were king during your time. You probably studied these people as their lies were everywhere.

A fantasy life is ignoring history. Gnosticism, Arianism, and Protestantism are historical realities.

Don’t give me the Canon Law spiel, I know it pretty well. Of coarse official heretics are declared so by the Church, but the Church hasn’t disciplined anyone in decades. Serious Catholics know when someone is a heretic, we don’t need permission to oppose error. Anyone can figure out when a theologian says Jesus was a mere elightened man, he is a heretic.

I don’t care if people have a phd in theology, my first question would be to ask them if they believe in God.
Catholic Education has been a complete disaster for over forty years, especially in the 60’s and 70’s when tyou had every sort of kook, heretic, apostate teaching nonsense.
Catholics who know the Baltimore Catechism have more faith than the average Graduate School Catholic.
 
saint_rafael said:
catharina,

I see you were my age in 1970. That explains alot. These heretics and clowns were king during your time. You probably studied these people as their lies were everywhere.

A fantasy life is ignoring history. Gnosticism, Arianism, and Protestantism are historical realities.

Don’t give me the Canon Law spiel, I know it pretty well. Of coarse official heretics are declared so by the Church, but the Church hasn’t disciplined anyone in decades. Serious Catholics know when someone is a heretic, we don’t need permission to oppose error. Anyone can figure out when a theologian says Jesus was a mere elightened man, he is a heretic.

I don’t care if people have a phd in theology, my first question would be to ask them if they believe in God.
Catholic Education has been a complete disaster for over forty years, especially in the 60’s and 70’s when tyou had every sort of kook, heretic, apostate teaching nonsense.
Catholics who know the Baltimore Catechism have more faith than the average Graduate School Catholic.
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Saint Rafael, what is your goal? To help people get to the truth or to hit them over the head? Because it makes a difference.
 
saint_rafael said:
catharina,

I see you were my age in 1970. That explains alot. These heretics and clowns were king during your time. You probably studied these people as their lies were everywhere.

A fantasy life is ignoring history. Gnosticism, Arianism, and Protestantism are historical realities.

Don’t give me the Canon Law spiel, I know it pretty well. Of coarse official heretics are declared so by the Church, but the Church hasn’t disciplined anyone in decades. Serious Catholics know when someone is a heretic, we don’t need permission to oppose error. Anyone can figure out when a theologian says Jesus was a mere elightened man, he is a heretic.

I don’t care if people have a phd in theology, my first question would be to ask them if they believe in God.
Catholic Education has been a complete disaster for over forty years, especially in the 60’s and 70’s when tyou had every sort of kook, heretic, apostate teaching nonsense.
Catholics who know the Baltimore Catechism have more faith than the average Graduate School Catholic.
Click to expand...
If you are 35 yrs old now, then yes, that was my age in 1970 - very much a mature, all-grown-up woman. I was raised with the Latin Mass and like all my age, memorized the entire Baltimore Catechism by graduation from eighth grade. If the Church “failed” your parents, then that’s a shame - but it didn’t fail me. I’d be amazed to learn that you are actually 35 yrs old since you thinkpost like you’re about 16 yrs old. Live and learn. PS - can’t imagine who taught you to count (new math?) but do acknowledge THIS time now is still my time. I haven’t died.
 
catharina said:
If you are 35 yrs old now, then yes, that was my age in 1970 - very much a mature, all-grown-up woman. I was raised with the Latin mass and like all my age, memorized the entire Baltimore Catechism by graduation from eighth grade. If the Church “failed” your parents, then that’s a shame - but it didn’t fail me. I’d be amazed to learn that you are actually 35 yrs old since I’d have guessed you’re about 16 yrs old. Live and learn.
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Catharina, speaking as a senior citizen, and only in generalities, not towards any specific person, I can safely tell you that, since I have children about your age, that the young have a highly developed sense of justice, but that sense of justice is only tempered with maturity.
 
MelanieAnne said:
Catharina, speaking as a senior citizen, and only in generalities, not towards any specific person, I can safely tell you that, since I have children about your age, that the young have a highly developed sense of justice, but that sense of justice is only tempered with maturity.
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Melanie Anne - just checked your profile and can’t imagine how you could have children my age - since I’m four+ yrs older than you. Nonehteless, I understand and agree about the impetuosity of youth - however when one aims his little tin sword, accusations and threats against Holy Mother Church as st rafael is inclined to do - I do take offense and I say so.
 
I am actually 25. I must have miscounted a decade. You were my age in 1960. You were raised in the pre-Vatican II Church. I would give my right arm to have lived during those times.

The way you defended those thelogians I figured you were in college during the late 60’s and you studied them.

As for me posting as if I was 16, that is pretty insulting. I am blunt and honest about the crisis and apostasy in the Church. Division is not easy but the Church cannot continue in her contradictions. I make my arguments logically and I believe many of the current novelties will be cleared up.

I challenge you or anyone to debate honestly anything I have said.

You seem to be ticked off at all the war and battle speech, but the reality remains. There is a war. It is the war beteen good and evil. There are good Catholics and bad Catholics.
 
saint_rafael said:
I am actually 25. I must have miscounted a decade. You were my age in 1960. You were raised in the pre-Vatican II Church. I would give my right arm to have lived during those times.

The way you defended those thelogians I figured you were in college during the late 60’s and you studied them.
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You’ll be thrilled to hear that **I miscounted **- as I do quite often in calculating years. However I was degreed and out of college BEFORE Vatican II was implemented.

Of the men you named and accused of heresy, you are correct. You misjudged me entirely. I studied NONE of them or their adherents. I am far more concerned about defending the holiness and moral integrity of the Church than I am of defending ANY theologian. We (in the Church) do not declare others to be HERETICS. We do NOT. We can say ‘it sounds like he’s teaching heresy.’ but that’s as far as WE can go. You discredit yourself entirely when you leap to judgment that is NOT yours to pronounce. Perhaps you might curcb your venom.
 
saint_rafael said:
I am actually 25. I must have miscounted a decade. You were my age in 1960. You were raised in the pre-Vatican II Church. I would give my right arm to have lived during those times.

The way you defended those thelogians I figured you were in college during the late 60’s and you studied them.

**
As for me posting as if I was 16, that is pretty insulting. I am blunt and honest about the crisis and apostasy in the Church. Division is not easy but the Church cannot continue in her contradiction. I make my arguments logically and I believe many of the current novelties will be cleared up**.
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Maybe - but your reasoning sounds that immature. We can make logical arguments but we can NOT draw conclusions that fall beyond our right to do so.

It’s that venom, that need to demonize, that invalidates your arguments.
 
catharina said:
Melanie Anne - just checked your profile and can’t imagine how you could have children my age - since I’m four+ yrs older than you. Nonehteless, I understand and agree about the impetuosity of youth - however when one aims his little tin sword, accusations and threats against Holy Mother Church as st rafael is inclined to do - I do take offense and I say so.
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Catharina, sorry, I must have misread a previous post, I thought I had read that you were about 35, my mistake! Sorry! 🙂
 
saint_rafael said:
You seem to be ticked off at all the war and battle speech, but the reality remains. There is a war. It is the war beteen [SIC] good and evil. There are good Catholics and bad Catholics.
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I submit that the biggest problem that we face in the Church right now is not “good Catholics vs. bad Catholics” but is, instead, attendance. Every church I go to is packed, yet I’ve read that only 20% of the Catholics in the country go to church on a regular basis.

If everyone went to Church as they are meant to do (and that is only weekly while some of us crave attendance more often and bless the Priests, they give us that benefit!) I wonder where we would put them all. We don’t have enough priests and we don’t have enough church buildings to accommodate the current Catholic population in the US, should they all decide, today, to start going to church every Sunday.

My Mama always said you attract more flies with honey than with vinegar. Rather than railing against perceived problems we might spend our time more productively bringing Catholics back to church, not by hitting them over the head, but in a loving way.

And Saint Rafael, if you are a man, you could also study for the Priesthood. We’re importing Priests from other countries, don’t you think we should STOP DOING THAT? So if you are a man, step up and put your money where your mouth is.
 
MelanieAnne said:
Catharina, sorry, I must have misread a previous post, I thought I had read that you were about 35, my mistake! Sorry! 🙂
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No problem. I mis-stated my own age when I addressed S.R.
It’s the wacky age/number problem. Sound familiar?
 
catharina said:
No problem. I mis-stated my own age when I addressed S.R.
It’s the wacky age/number problem. Sound familiar?
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Yeah, it’s familiar. But age, in the end, is not the issue. Humility is the issue. And we all need more.

Catharina, you sound like a great lady. But then, when you think of the Saints with similar names, that’s pretty obvious. My confirmation name is Catherine, for Catherine La Bourre, of the Miraculous Medal. Peace be with you my friend.
 
catharina said:
You’ll be thrilled to hear that **I miscounted **- as I do quite often in calculating years. However I was degreed and out of college BEFORE Vatican II was implemented.

Of the men you named and accused of heresy, you are correct. You misjudged me entirely. I studied NONE of them or their adherents. I am far more concerned about defending the holiness and moral integrity of the Church than I am of defending ANY theologian. We (in the Church) do not declare others to be HERETICS. We do NOT. We can say ‘it sounds like he’s teaching heresy.’ but that’s as far as WE can go. You discredit yourself entirely when you leap to judgment that is NOT yours to pronounce. Perhaps you might curcb your venom.
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I would pose a slight caution. I believe Mr. Rafael (who is, gosh darn it, my very age) mentioned Von Balthazar as a heretic, probably for something he wrote suggesting the possiblility something akin to universal salvation. I have never read or studied anything by him; I only know his writings are greatly admired by our Pope, who is a man I would expect not to admire any author who is a heretic. Don’t get me wrong, I know that a Pope’s private reading tastes do not fall under the guidelines of infallibility; but I trust our Benedict’s theological judgment.

Try googling “Ratzinger Balthazar.” You’ll find that Cardinal Ratzinger recommended his works.

As for the writings or beliefs of Von Balthazar himself, I have no desire to debate them, and know personal knowledge of them.

CC
 
consumedconvert said:
I would pose a slight caution. I believe Mr. Rafael (who is, gosh darn it, my very age) mentioned Von Balthazar as a heretic, probably for something he wrote suggesting the possiblility something akin to universal salvation. I have never read or studied anything by him; I only know his writings are greatly admired by our Pope, who is a man I would expect not to admire any author who is a heretic. Don’t get me wrong, I know that a Pope’s private reading tastes do not fall under the guidelines of infallibility; but I trust our Benedict’s theological judgment.

Try googling “Ratzinger Balthazar.” You’ll find that Cardinal Ratzinger recommended his works.

As for the writings or beliefs of Von Balthazar himself, I have no desire to debate them, and know personal knowledge of them.

CC
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OOPS and SO sorry. I can see how and why you misunderstood my statement.

It should have read:

Originally Posted by catharina
You’ll be thrilled to hear that I miscounted - as I do quite often in calculating years. However I was degreed and out of college BEFORE Vatican II was implemented.

Of the men you named and accused of heresy, you are correct IN SAYING THAT you misjudged me entirely. I studied NONE of them or their adherents. I am far more concerned about defending the holiness and moral integrity of the Church than I am of defending ANY theologian. We (in the Church) do not declare others to be HERETICS. We do NOT. We can say ‘it sounds like he’s teaching heresy.’ but that’s as far as WE can go. You discredit yourself entirely when you leap to judgment that is NOT yours to pronounce. Perhaps you might curcb your venom.
 
saint_rafael said:
The Wheat must be separated from the Chaff.

As painful as it is for the Church, the divisions will increase and get larger over the next couple of years.

The purification and chastisements from God must play out.

There are** two religions **in the Catholic Church. The last fifty years through negligence, sin, apostasy, and chastisement has allowed the weeds to continue to grow.
These are the times we live in.

There is no middle. The middle is no man’s land.
Tradition or Modernism. The war continues. There are only two sides.
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You are absolutely right Rafi. The Church has degenerated to the point we have only your religion and everyone elses.
 
saint_rafael said:
The Wheat must be separated from the Chaff.

As painful as it is for the Church, the divisions will increase and get larger over the next couple of years.

The purification and chastisements from God must play out.

There are** two religions **in the Catholic Church. The last fifty years through negligence, sin, apostasy, and chastisement has allowed the weeds to continue to grow.
These are the times we live in.

There is no middle. The middle is no man’s land.
Tradition or Modernism. The war continues. There are only two sides.
Click to expand...
saint_rafael said:
When did I ever say that I spoke for God? You are making that up.

All I did was talk about the crisis which has been explained by Marian apparitions like Our Lady of Fatima, Akita, and Nicaragua.

I make no apologies. I guess you are not used to Men talking like real Men since we have an emasculated society, Church, and priesthood, not to mention all the emasculated men that are around today.

Those theologians were agents of Satan because they taught and held heresies. Heresy comes from the devil because the devil is always trying to destroy the Church.

They have died and I cannot speak for their salvation. That is up to God. God has already decided their fate. They have recieved their judgement and God is mercy and justice. I wish hell for no man on this Earth.
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Hey, hey, how’s the blood pressure? It causes plaque in the arteries and can lead to an early death. You may never love (oops slip of the fingers) live, to see your dreams come true.
 
catharina said:
We (in the Church) do not declare others to be HERETICS. We do NOT. We can say ‘it sounds like he’s teaching heresy.’ but that’s as far as WE can go. You discredit yourself entirely when you leap to judgment that is NOT yours to pronounce. Perhaps you might curcb your venom.
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That is your opinion. You are not comfortable using that terminology. I am.

Catholics know that is not official. Only the Church can make it official. I still believe it is appropriate to oppose enemies of the faith. I got no hangups on calling enemies of Christ what they are, which is heretics. It’s a common word.

I have been mentored by two terrific traditional Catholic priests. (in good standing) and by a great traditionalist lay man who was a professor of Philosophy.

These men had no problem calling other priests, theologians, and dispicable men, heretics. These giants were alot tougher, harsher, than I am. I have been blessed to have learn alot from them and they taught me well.

By the way, there is a mainstream Catholic priest on EWTN, Fr. John Corapi. He is the same vein as I and many traditional Catholics. Try listening to his “venom”.
 
If someone is behaving uncharitably towards others, it is doubtful that Fr. Corapi would appreciate such behavior being explained as emulating him.
 
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