Why are WE here?

[A_G]

We are here because GOD loves us!

 

[quirkyone]

We are here to serve the Lord. That is our main reason for existence. Although it is difficult at times, because we want to do our own thing, God created us to love Him and to serve Him.

 

[buffalo]

Remember I asked you to cite an article that demonstrates your rather strong assertion that, “evolutionary explanations of consciousness have failed.” So far, you’ve pointed me towards two articles by the same dude, both of which have been received with quite heavy criticism, and which in no way amount to “demonstration.” Tallis’ reasoning is faulty.

The other thing to remember is that, to date, there is no alternative theory that provides an explanation for the existence of consciousness. At best (for you), we can say that the question is still unanswered. But when it is answered, my money’s on science, rather than religion or philosophy to provide that answer.

Take a look here. Fascinating discussions pro and con.

Closer to Truth

Why a Mind Body Problem?

Do Humans Have Free Will

Can Brains Have Free Will?

 

[geekborj]

I agree.

I think that different people would very well have different answer for what the “greatest” reason is for them, but personally, I agree with you on this one as well.

Once again, I agree.

I agree that all people seek those things that they personally call “good, true, just, and happy.” The specifics of what fulfills those things varies extremely from one individual to another.

I believe that the “specifics of what fulfills those things varies extremely from one individual to another” is the effect of blurring of Man’s understanding of the Truth about the deepest longing of his heart. If one would see, all means to achieve this “good, true, just, and happy” state may be placed on a line with the nearest approximation to the universal Forms of the same. In the limit that one goes to the right, there is ONE TRUTH to this variation.

Relativity is a false premise based on the truth that Man does not know everything, until perhaps one dies and realizes Eternity.

 

[wanstronian]

Take a look here. Fascinating discussions pro and con.

Closer to Truth

Why a Mind Body Problem?

Do Humans Have Free Will

Can Brains Have Free Will?

I’ll have a look some time, but on the face of it I don’t know what value these videos would add, as the site is almost certainly motivated by a religious agenda rather than a scientific one.

 

[FurtherSuntime]

We are here to fulfill our purpose on earth and finally enjoy the beauty and beatitude of heaven which is nothing less than God Himself. Our purpose in these times is to evangelize and save sinners and bring all creation under God’s throne by enacting His commands and going out to serve our brothers and sisters, especially the very least of these. And who might be the least of our brethren but the helpless unborn and the little ones? Remember how Jesus took a child on His knee and told His apotles that to be like a little child is a share in the Kingdom of Heaven, and woe to those who would hurt such an innocent one, that it would be better had a millstone be put around his neck and he’d be thrown into the sea. (One of Jesus’ harsher sayings. Remember He didn’t just tiptoe through the tulips. He spoke with authority as many proclaimed).

Well stated . We can’t know exactly what everything is all about but the general theme and tone of a life of virtue is not only rewarding in itself, but self explanatory in meaning and purpose. Once fully grasped the hazy dissipates with sureness and confidence knowing that the joy in a good life is entirely fulfilling. I think getting lots of fresh air and positive thinking could be two commandments which may be worth thinking on for todays
indoor distractive lifestyle…Why are we here? well we must be required , so the emphasis on developing and nurturing the inner self is in view. The self is a growing maturing reality right until the last breath. Nothing which follows this scheme is wasted. , We are being herded into a process of infinity which requires innocence and fortitude in self knowing justification. If this is true, then there must be something which is in store for such a being at the end onto eternity… There must be a role which requires goodness, gotta be…theres so much that is unknown its ridiculous, whats not ridiculous though is the natural agreement in self, living with the attributes mentioned in post quoted above. (always have a good regard for notice of these words, the toddlers can teach and show quite a bit where trust and faith is concerned…do they worry like adults, nope, Maybe not worrying too much for some could be the third commandment for todays thinking…its always the ones who worry too much that I think may do well not to worry so much…life is natural and so is reasonable enjoyment without too much worry …

 

[tonyrey]

WHAT HAPPENED?

The universe was designed and created by the Supreme Being rather than popping into existence by itself** for no reason or purpose whatsoever** and magically producing freaks who succeeded in magically calculating out that they exist for no reason or purpose whatsoever…

 

[tonyrey]

I’ll have a look some time, but on the face of it I don’t know what value these videos would add, as the site is almost certainly motivated by a religious agenda rather than a scientific one.

Therefore it must be false because science will ultimately explain everything - including the power of biological machines to explain science - in the same way as the little kitten going around in circles furiously chasing its own tail!

 

[wanstronian]

The universe was designed and created by the Supreme Being rather than popping into existence by itself** for no reason or purpose whatsoever** and magically producing freaks who succeeded in magically calculating out that they exist for no reason or purpose whatsoever…

It’s telling that you have to poison the well with every statement you make. You spend far more words belittling what you think can’t have happened, than you do stating what you think did happen. (You also misrepresent naturalism, btw, which doesn’t claim that the Universe “popped into existence by itself for no reason.”)

Unfortunately, you’re still not actually explaining anything, just repeating your statement. A statement which has no explanatory power whatsoever. In fact, in terms of explanatory power your response falls far behind the many disparate yet cohesive scientific theories that form part of the naturalistic explanation. Partial though this explanation may be, it’s still infinitely more mature than your answer, which amounts to, “Goddidit.”

So one last time, to save the last shreds of your intellectual credibility - WHAT HAPPENED?. I’m looking for a description of what happened, not just a statement that it did. Include such things as: Who, what, when. Given that your answer presumes an intelligent decision, you also need to answer the question: “Why?”

To help you understand your responsibilities here, these are some of the questions I would expect you to answer:

1. What created the universe? Well, you’ve answered this one with “A supreme being” (which is a little vague to say the least), so follow-on questions are:
2. Who, or what, is this Supreme Being?
3. Where did it come from?
4. Why did it create the universe?
5. By what process did it create the universe?
6. When did it create the universe?
7. How did it give us consciousness?
8. What gave it consciousness?
   8a. And what gave that consciousness (and so on, ad infinitum)?
9. Why did it give us consciousness?
10. Do you consider that it gave other animals consciousness?
    10a. If so, which ones? At which threshold does consciousness not exist in animals?
11. Biology, Geology, Archeology, Homology, Genetics, Paleontology and other branches of science, all offer robust evidence that supports the Theory of Evolution. How do you explain this massive mistake? Why did this Supreme Being put all this false evidence in place?
12. Did this Supreme Being design all life forms?
    12a. If so, why did it make such a poor job? For example, why do men have nipples? Why do humans have body hair? Why does the vagus nerve take such a circuitous route in mammals? Why have we got five fingers on each hand and five toes on each foot? And so on?
13. And finally, the big one: what is the evidence for your responses to the above? How can the rest of us verify your hypothesis?

I’d ask you to refrain from your normal tactic of Argument from Ignorance - an usubstantiated assertion of “it’s preposterous to think that x could have happened naturally” is not a valid answer to any of the above questions.

If you are unable to answer the questions above, then the fact is that your “explanation” has less explanatory power, and consequently less plausibility, than the naturalistic explanation of our existence.

Basically, either you answer the questions or you implicitly admit that your position is nothing more than the Argument from Ignorance, which even you know is not a sound platform for discussion.

 

[wanstronian]

Therefore it must be false because science will ultimately explain everything - including the power of biological machines to explain science - in the same way as the little kitten going around in circles furiously chasing its own tail!

Ah, the old “science can’t explain itself” fallacy. Which not only ignores the fact that nothing else can “explain” it either, but also fails to acknowledge the fact that science has no need to explain itself. It’s self-validating because it works.

 

[tonyrey]

1. What created the universe? Well, you’ve answered this one with “A supreme being” (which is a little vague to say the least), so follow-on questions are:

Not the slightest vague in comparison with “I have no idea whatsoever”!

1. Who, or what, is this Supreme Being?

The Being who has far more** knowledge and insight **than those who use their knowledge and insight to proclaim that they have far more knowledge and insight than any other being - and that their knowledge and insight are derived from that which lacks knowledge and insight.

1. **Where **did it come from?

Your question assumes - without justification - that everything is located in time and space.

1. Why did it create the universe?

**One **of the reasons why the universe was created is that beings like you can enjoy proclaiming that the universe is purposeless!

1. By what process did it create the universe?

By a process analogical to that of a great composer or artist.

1. When did it create the universe?

Probably with the Big Bang.

1. How did it give us consciousness?

With love…

1. What gave it consciousness?

Consciousness is eternal.

8a. And what gave that consciousness (and so on, ad infinitum)?

Your infinite regress is the product of a finite intelligence…

1. Why did it give us consciousness?

Consciousness is a gift that cannot be understood by those who do not believe in love.

1. Do you consider that it gave other animals consciousness?

Consciousness is certainly not a product of electrical impulses which are unaware of what they are doing.

10a. If so, which ones? At which threshold does consciousness not exist in animals?

Consciousness is evinced by every form of life with its urge to survive.

1. Biology, Geology, Archeology, Homology, Genetics, Paleontology and other branches of science, all offer robust evidence that supports the Theory of Evolution. How do you explain this massive mistake?

Evolution by Design is not a mistake but the most adequate explanation of reality.

Why did this Supreme Being put all this false evidence in place?

N/A

1. Did this Supreme Being design all life forms?

Within the framework of Design there is an inevitable element of chance.

12a. If so, why did it make such a poor job? For example, why do men have nipples? Why do humans have body hair? Why does the vagus nerve take such a circuitous route in mammals? Why have we got five fingers on each hand and five toes on each foot? And so on?

Your criticisms presupposes that you can design a superior universe. Please provide a feasible blueprint… without which your objection is worthless.

1. And finally, the big one: what is the evidence for your responses to the above? How can the rest of us verify your hypothesis?

By taking a cursory glance at the marvels of nature and examining the extent to which you rely on reason rather than chance in your daily life…

If you are unable to answer the questions above, then the fact is that your “explanation” has less explanatory power, and consequently less plausibility, than the naturalistic explanation of our existence.

Precisely what is the naturalistic explanation of our existence?

1. What created the universe?
2. What** is** this mysterious source of energy?
3. Where did it come from?
4. Why did it create the universe?
5. By what process did it create the universe?
6. When did it create the universe?
7. How did it create consciousness?
8. How did it create the power of reason?
9. How can the rest of us verify your hypothesis?

Basically, either you answer the questions or you implicitly admit that your position is nothing more than the Argument from Ignorance, which even you know is not a sound platform for discussion.

Ditto.

 

[tonyrey]

Therefore it must

Do you mean that you use nothing more than science to make every single decision in your life? Are there no limits to the ways in which science works? Does it solve all your problems? Which textbooks do you use? Is your house full of scientific equipment on which you rely implicitly without ever having to use your own judgment?
If you believe science has no need to explain itself you obviously have never consulted a book on the philosophy of science… How would you justify the principle of induction?

 

[dingodile]

Explanations must terminate. The question is what end-points are acceptable to reason. The naturalistic account of the universe doesn’t terminate with the Big Bang. It terminates with the quantum vacuum and the laws of quantum physics that describe it, according to which a universe can arise from a singularity. The existence of quantum vacuum itself is said (by some) to be a consequence of the laws of quantum physics. What explains those laws? Nothing. They are not logically or mathematically necessary, and they are not explained in terms of further facts. They are brute facts.

The theistic account of the universe terminates differently. It terminates with the will of God. The laws of nature, which are brute facts in naturalism, are what they are in theism because God wills them. Even so, the will of God is itself a brute fact.

So the question is, Is there a reason to prefer one set of brute facts over the other?

Well, the laws of nature are not themselves physical entities. They are generalizations about physical entities. That is, the laws describe the way things happen. Laws are about physical things, states, and events, but aboutness itself is not a physical thing, state, or event. Aboutness is a property of mental states and events. It’s a property of thoughts. So, the so-called naturalistic explanation of the universe terminates in something that is fundamentally mind-like, something that is not intelligible in purely physical terms: laws. This gives some reason to favor a mind-first cosmology, which is precisely what theism is.

This isn’t proof, but it’s a demonstration that the theistic answer is at least as reasonable as the naturalistic one, and in some ways is more reasonable. I think that’s as good as it gets.

 

[ElizabethCorbel]

1. What created the universe? Well, you’ve answered this one with “A supreme being” (which is a little vague to say the least), so follow-on questions are:

What created the universe was the Big Bang. Who created the universe was the omnipotent, omnipresent, all-knowing Supreme Being

1. Who, or what, is this Supreme Being?

We call this Supreme Being God.

1. Where did it come from?

God did not “come” from anywhere. God always existed outside of time and outside of space. I know it’s a difficult concept to grasp. Physicists are still wrapping their heads around it. But if you don’t have space, you don’t have time. And vice versa. If you don’t have time, you don’t have space. And before the Big Bang, there was neither time nor space. Space and time have a beginning; God does not. So it is a moot question.

1. Why did it create the universe?

Personally, I think God created the universe because he enjoys company. He makes friends with anyone and everyone, so I think he must enjoy having us around.

1. By what process did it create the universe?

The Big Bang.

1. When did it create the universe?

Approximately 17.3 billion years ago, give or take a billion years.

1. How did it give us consciousness?

I think consciousness arose out of the process of evolution.

1. What gave it consciousness?

Back to the point of an eternal being vs. a created being. God was always conscious.

8a. And what gave that consciousness (and so on, ad infinitum)?

Nothing gave it. There’s no regression necessary. It’s only necessary if you exist inside space and time.

1. Why did it give us consciousness?

I think God designed evolution so that consciousness could evolve because that’s what makes life interesting. It’s pretty apparent God likes things infinite and interesting. Also, by having consciousness evolve, it gives God interaction with us, which I think he clearly enjoys.

1. Do you consider that it gave other animals consciousness?

Yes.

10a. If so, which ones? At which threshold does consciousness not exist in animals?

I think all animals are conscious to some extent. Even an amoeba will try to get away from a bad environment. But I think what you’re getting at is what we term “higher consciousness”. That’s a little difficult to answer. But I think any creature that could ask the question, “Why am I here?” would qualify. Since we have yet to cross over into inter-species communication, we don’t know if any other creatures on Earth have come to that point other than ourselves. However, I think it’s possible that dolphins may have and maybe elephants. There could be many more.

1. Biology, Geology, Archeology, Homology, Genetics, Paleontology and other branches of science, all offer robust evidence that supports the Theory of Evolution. How do you explain this massive mistake? Why did this Supreme Being put all this false evidence in place?

Who said it was false? I firmly believe in evolution. And I don’t believe evolution was a mistake.

1. Did this Supreme Being design all life forms?

If you mean, did God sit down and say, "I think I’ll design a human to be a mammal, have binocular vision, walk on two legs, have big brains, etc., etc., then no, I don’t think he did. Did he put things in motion so that an infinite variety of life forms could evolve? Yes, I think he did. But if the asteroid had never wiped out the dinosaurs, I think he would be delighted if we were reptiles debating the existence of God.

12a. If so, why did it make such a poor job? For example, why do men have nipples? Why do humans have body hair? Why does the vagus nerve take such a circuitous route in mammals? Why have we got five fingers on each hand and five toes on each foot? And so on?

That all happens because evolution is a very slow and torturous process. Evolution does not “think forward”. It takes something already in existence and adapts it to the new environment.

1. And finally, the big one: what is the evidence for your responses to the above? How can the rest of us verify your hypothesis?

Unfortunately, you cannot prove the existence of God. However, I would also point out you cannot disprove the existence of God. It is a matter of choice which you believe. It always amazes me at how vehement people who disbelieve in God are towards those of us who do. It’s still only a belief. I have asked openly for anyone to disprove the existence of God so that a scientist would agree it was proven. So far, no one has taken me up on my challenge.

 

[tonyrey]

Explanations must terminate. The question is what end-points are acceptable to reason. The naturalistic account of the universe doesn’t terminate with the Big Bang. It terminates with the quantum vacuum and the laws of quantum physics that describe it, according to which a universe can arise from a singularity. The existence of quantum vacuum itself is said (by some) to be a consequence of the laws of quantum physics. What explains those laws? Nothing. They are not logically or mathematically necessary, and they are not explained in terms of further facts. They are brute facts.

The theistic account of the universe terminates differently. It terminates with the will of God. The laws of nature, which are brute facts in naturalism, are what they are in theism because God wills them. Even so, the will of God is itself a brute fact.

So the question is, Is there a reason to prefer one set of brute facts over the other?

Well, the laws of nature are not themselves physical entities. They are generalizations about physical entities. That is, the laws describe the way things happen. Laws are about physical things, states, and events, but aboutness itself is not a physical thing, state, or event. Aboutness is a property of mental states and events. It’s a property of thoughts. So, the so-called naturalistic explanation of the universe terminates in something that is fundamentally mind-like, something that is not intelligible in purely physical terms: laws. This gives some reason to favor a mind-first cosmology, which is precisely what theism is.

This isn’t proof, but it’s a demonstration that the theistic answer is at least as reasonable as the naturalistic one, and in some ways is more reasonable. I think that’s as good as it gets.

Well put, dingo! I like your expression “a mind-first cosmology” - which sums it up very neatly.

 

[tonyrey]

1. What created the universe? Well, you’ve answered this one with “A supreme being” (which is a little vague to say the least), so follow-on questions are:

What created the universe was the Big Bang. Who created the universe was the omnipotent, omnipresent, all-knowing Supreme Being

1. Who, or what, is this Supreme Being?

We call this Supreme Being God.

1. Where did it come from?

God did not “come” from anywhere. God always existed outside of time and outside of space. I know it’s a difficult concept to grasp. Physicists are still wrapping their heads around it. But if you don’t have space, you don’t have time. And vice versa. If you don’t have time, you don’t have space. And before the Big Bang, there was neither time nor space. Space and time have a beginning; God does not. So it is a moot question.

1. Why did it create the universe?

Personally, I think God created the universe because he enjoys company. He makes friends with anyone and everyone, so I think he must enjoy having us around.

1. By what process did it create the universe?

The Big Bang.

1. When did it create the universe?

Approximately 17.3 billion years ago, give or take a billion years.

1. How did it give us consciousness?

I think consciousness arose out of the process of evolution.

1. What gave it consciousness?

Back to the point of an eternal being vs. a created being. God was always conscious.

8a. And what gave that consciousness (and so on, ad infinitum)?

Nothing gave it. There’s no regression necessary. It’s only necessary if you exist inside space and time.

1. Why did it give us consciousness?

I think God designed evolution so that consciousness could evolve because that’s what makes life interesting. It’s pretty apparent God likes things infinite and interesting. Also, by having consciousness evolve, it gives God interaction with us, which I think he clearly enjoys.

1. Do you consider that it gave other animals consciousness?

Yes.

10a. If so, which ones? At which threshold does consciousness not exist in animals?

I think all animals are conscious to some extent. Even an amoeba will try to get away from a bad environment. But I think what you’re getting at is what we term “higher consciousness”. That’s a little difficult to answer. But I think any creature that could ask the question, “Why am I here?” would qualify. Since we have yet to cross over into inter-species communication, we don’t know if any other creatures on Earth have come to that point other than ourselves. However, I think it’s possible that dolphins may have and maybe elephants. There could be many more.

1. Biology, Geology, Archeology, Homology, Genetics, Paleontology and other branches of science, all offer robust evidence that supports the Theory of Evolution. How do you explain this massive mistake? Why did this Supreme Being put all this false evidence in place?

Who said it was false? I firmly believe in evolution. And I don’t believe evolution was a mistake.

1. Did this Supreme Being design all life forms?

If you mean, did God sit down and say, "I think I’ll design a human to be a mammal, have binocular vision, walk on two legs, have big brains, etc., etc., then no, I don’t think he did. Did he put things in motion so that an infinite variety of life forms could evolve? Yes, I think he did. But if the asteroid had never wiped out the dinosaurs, I think he would be delighted if we were reptiles debating the existence of God.

12a. If so, why did it make such a poor job? For example, why do men have nipples? Why do humans have body hair? Why does the vagus nerve take such a circuitous route in mammals? Why have we got five fingers on each hand and five toes on each foot? And so on?

That all happens because evolution is a very slow and torturous process. Evolution does not “think forward”. It takes something already in existence and adapts it to the new environment.

1. And finally, the big one: what is the evidence for your responses to the above? How can the rest of us verify your hypothesis?

Unfortunately, you cannot prove the existence of God. However, I would also point out you cannot disprove the existence of God. It is a matter of choice which you believe. It always amazes me at how vehement people who disbelieve in God are towards those of us who do. It’s still only a belief. I have asked openly for anyone to disprove the existence of God so that a scientist would agree it was proven. So far, no one has taken me up on my challenge.

Welcome to the club, Elizabeth! It’s good to have a perceptive lady in our ranks.

 

[buffalo]

I’ll have a look some time, but on the face of it I don’t know what value these videos would add, as the site is almost certainly motivated by a religious agenda rather than a scientific one.

Are you kidding me? Michael Shermer? Daniel Dennett? Lawrence Krauss?

This is a search for truth looking at it from many perspectives. It might be a problem though for someone who does not believe in truth. But then you disqualify yourself from any argument then.

 

[LayingHands]

Does humaity have a precise reason for existence?

GOD created humanity because he wanted friends. There is a 5,000 year old scripture which is called The Science of GOD. In it GOD has instructed, directed and controlled, who, what and why we are here…our human life has been a long time to revolve in evolution and we finally manisfested in becoming human, in this life time. In this human life time, you are required to prepare your spirit soul (the atom sized GOD spirit portion, sitting in the heart of all living entities) to return back to GODHEAD. This human life has NO other purpose than to awaken your GOD Conscious, to become one with GOD, openly and by your own will, decide to live in and as GOD’s goodness, for GOD is all goodness only…your humanity responsibility, during this human life time is to live/love godly and return your spirit soul to GOD’s spiritual heaven, as his servant and loving friend.

 

[heilotes]

Just throwing this out there even if it’s late in the thread.

I recall reading in Pope John Paul II’s call to artists that when an artists creates a piece, he/she echos the divine creation of the universe.

Being an artist of sorts myself, if one of my sculptures came alive and asked me why it is there. “I would reply, well, because you’re beautiful and you make me happy and it was a joy to design and create you.”

Not that I could ever speak for God, but I imagine His answer would be along the same lines.

 

[sunny29]

According to me, We are here to fulfill our life’s duty. God creates us to do a specific work on this planet. We all are different and our planet is also made up of different things, We have already given a task by God, just what we have to do is that we just create our life to fulfill that task.

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