Why are we talking to Constantinople instead of Moscow?

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Pope_Noah_I

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Yes, yes, I know that the Russians hate us and think of us as heretics, but, still, I was reading some stuff about Patriarch Bartholomew I the other day that blew my mind. He is actually pro-choice. PRO-CHOICE.

"Although the Orthodox Church believes the soul enters the body at conception and, generally speaking, respects human life and the continuation of the pregnancy,” Barthlomew said, the churchalso “respects the liberty and freedom of all human persons and all Christian couples . . . . We are not allowed to enter the bedrooms of the Christian couples,” he also said. “We cannot generalize. There are many reasons for a couple to go toward abortion.” (San Francisco Chronicle-7/20/90p.A22)

Yet we prop him up next to the Pope on major feast days like he’s actually someone we want to be negotiating with. I mean, it’s abortion. Not the filioque, not the Immaculate Conception, it’s abortion. Now, call me insane, but I’d rather take my chances with the Russian bear than this guy. Alexy II has at least maintained a pro-life position. What do you guys think?
 
Glory to Jesus Christ!+

wow I never knew that where did you find that ?

David
 
I’ve heard of this, the information isn’t terribly easy to find. These words were allegedly spoken before he was Patriarch. To my knowledge, if he did say that, he hasn’t repeated such disgusting words, but neither has he repudiated nor retracted them. The Orthodox Church has never and does not teach that abortion is acceptable, and if he indeed said those things, it’s to his own shame and he has put his salvation in serious jeopardy. If it is true it is beyond outrageous. :mad:
 
I do want to know why the Pope has made him the main Ecumenical partner, knowing this. How can we possibly give this man equal sitting with the Pope at our Masses when he espouses these positions? He’s no better than Rowan Williams! Again, at least Alexy II knows where he stands.
 
that’s very true we should step up efforts with Russia but Bartholomew is the Patriarch of Constantinople therefore the Ecumenical Patriarch and the spiritual leader of all orthodox now that’s a scary thought
:eek:

David
 
student_of_God said:
that’s very true we should step up efforts with Russia but Bartholomew is the Patriarch of Constantinople therefore the Ecumenical Patriarch and the spiritual leader of all orthodox now that’s a scary thought
:eek:

David
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Not quite… he isn’t an Eastern Pope. The idea that he’s the “spiritual leader of all Orthodox” simply isn’t true.
 
I know that I’m talking about spiritual leadership not administrative I guess another way to put it is a figurehead
 
Pope_Noah_I said:
I do want to know why the Pope has made him the main Ecumenical partner, knowing this. How can we possibly give this man equal sitting with the Pope at our Masses when he espouses these positions? He’s no better than Rowan Williams! Again, at least Alexy II knows where he stands.
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Please don’t compare His Holiness to Rowan Williams. We should have more respect for our Apostolic brethren than that! 🙂

Alloho minokhoun,
Andrew
 
student_of_God said:
I know that I’m talking about spiritual leadership not administrative I guess another way to put it is a figurehead
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He doesn’t have a “spiritual leadership” either. What ever gave you that idea? :confused:

I really wish you guys would learn a little more about what you’re talking about before you go posting about things you don’t fully understand. The Patriarch in not the Pope. He doesn’t define define doctrine or dogma, he doesn’t claim infallibility. If what he says is outside the deposit of faith it isn’t true. No single person or assembly of people is vested with the ability to infallibly define the faith.

The deposit of faith doesn’t belong to a Patriarch or bishop or council of bishops, it belongs to the Body of the Church as a whole, and there’s nothing any Patriarch can do or say to change that.

No wonder you don’t understand us…🤷

IC XC

NI KA
 
Glory to Jesus Christ+!

Your right he’s not infallible and I read it on an orthodox website sometime ago but guess they where wrong
sorry

In Christ
David:)
 
Harpazo said:
Please don’t compare His Holiness to Rowan Williams. We should have more respect for our Apostolic brethren than that! 🙂

Alloho minokhoun,
Andrew
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There is only one Pope or Leader of The Catholic Church. He is Pope Benedict XVI. The Eastern Orthodox Patriarch is similar to a Roman Rite Bishop.
 
Mike_Dye said:
There is only one Pope or Leader of The Catholic Church. He is Pope Benedict XVI. The Eastern Orthodox Patriarch is similar to a Roman Rite Bishop.
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Shlom lokh,

I’m sorry, but that’s incorrect. He is the Patriarch of Constantinople and in a certain sense, is the Pope’s equal. He is generally addressed as “His All-Holiness.” As he should be, since he is afterall carrying on Apostolic Succession.

Alloho minokhoun,
Andrew
 
student_of_God said:
Glory to Jesus Christ+!

Your right he’s not infallible and I read it on an orthodox website sometime ago but guess they where wrong
sorry

In Christ
David:)
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It’s a common mistake. I just warn anyone against assuming that when a Patriarch speaks he automatically speaks for the Church. Whether or not he speaks for the Church depends entirely on what he says.

IC XC

NI KA
 
Pope_Noah_I said:
I do want to know why the Pope has made him the main Ecumenical partner, knowing this. How can we possibly give this man equal sitting with the Pope at our Masses when he espouses these positions? He’s no better than Rowan Williams! Again, at least Alexy II knows where he stands.
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Generally, because the Rest of Eastern Orthodoxy either considers us Heretics, or is already quietly in limited communion with particular churches in union with Rome. (Like the Syrian Orthodox.)
 
Part of it is a total misunderstanding of the position of the Ecumenical Patriarch in world Orthodoxy.

Some people think he’s the Orthodox pope. He isn’t.
 
his website states his role

Patriarch Bartholomew’s roles as the **primary spiritual leader **of the Orthodox Christian world and a transnational figure of global significance continue to become more vital each day.
bpbasilphx said:
Part of it is a total misunderstanding of the position of the Ecumenical Patriarch in world Orthodoxy.

Some people think he’s the Orthodox pope. He isn’t.
Click to expand...
 
Because Ecumenism is reaching out to those who need unity yet do not see that themselves. Truth and unity comes from Christ, his Church is doing his will.
 
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