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Yellow_Belle
Guest
Ah, I understand your point now. Thank you.
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chrisb
Guest
Grace and Peace to all,
‘All’ Catholics, male and female, are admitted to the Most Holy Sacrament because without it no Catholic would fulfill the divine command of Our Lord and Saviour to ‘eat of his flesh and drink of his blood to everlasting life’.
Our Lord promised the Jews at Caphernaum that He would give them His flesh to eat and His blood to drink (John vi.).
After the miraculous multiplication of the loaves and fishes the people went in search of Christ, and found Him in the synagogue at Capharnaum. They wanted HIm to give them bread again; but He promised to give them the bread of immortality. When they asked Him for it, He answered: “The bread that I will give is My flesh.” And when they refused to believe His words, he added: “Except you eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink His blood, you shall not hath everlasting life, and I will raise him up at the Last Day. For My flesh is meat indeed, and My blood is drink indeed” (John vi.52-56).
Your first error is to ‘limit’ your argument on the texts of the Sacred Text alone and not include the consensus of the early Church. Your second error is in ‘equating’ the Apostles present at the Last Supper as an indication that only men may be leaders in the Church and only men may have Everlasting Life… we know quite well through Mary Ever-Virgin that such is not so as she was admitted to heaven and so Crowned. Glory to God!
So to answer your question “Why are women allowed to receive Communion” we must say because God has extended to ‘all mankind’ (i.e. male and female) the gift of Everlasting Life.
‘All’ Catholics, male and female, are admitted to the Most Holy Sacrament because without it no Catholic would fulfill the divine command of Our Lord and Saviour to ‘eat of his flesh and drink of his blood to everlasting life’.
Our Lord promised the Jews at Caphernaum that He would give them His flesh to eat and His blood to drink (John vi.).
After the miraculous multiplication of the loaves and fishes the people went in search of Christ, and found Him in the synagogue at Capharnaum. They wanted HIm to give them bread again; but He promised to give them the bread of immortality. When they asked Him for it, He answered: “The bread that I will give is My flesh.” And when they refused to believe His words, he added: “Except you eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink His blood, you shall not hath everlasting life, and I will raise him up at the Last Day. For My flesh is meat indeed, and My blood is drink indeed” (John vi.52-56).
Your first error is to ‘limit’ your argument on the texts of the Sacred Text alone and not include the consensus of the early Church. Your second error is in ‘equating’ the Apostles present at the Last Supper as an indication that only men may be leaders in the Church and only men may have Everlasting Life… we know quite well through Mary Ever-Virgin that such is not so as she was admitted to heaven and so Crowned. Glory to God!
So to answer your question “Why are women allowed to receive Communion” we must say because God has extended to ‘all mankind’ (i.e. male and female) the gift of Everlasting Life.
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Disciple4Christ
Guest
My apologies To the OP if this was offensive to her.
My point was more that we were getting off the topic and on to things that have been well answered already.
Again I didn’t mean to offend and humbly apologize if my wording was incorrect.
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Brendan
Guest
Because we belive that women are part of the Community ( hence ‘Communion’). We hold that there is a Communion of Saints. In theological terms, that means that there is a Church Militant, Church Suffering, and Church Triumphant.
Women are clearly part of all three, therefore the Communion, which is the Body of Christ encompasses all women as well as men.
We also know that the Body of Christ has different gifts and different functions ( Romans 12:4). So we can see from Paul that simply being part of the ministerial priesthood does not mean that we are not part of the Body of Christ.
It is also a non sequitir to hold that because one cannot confect the Sacrament, that one cannot RECIEVE the Sacrament.
If that were the case, only priests could be absolved of their sins. We know that is simply untrue.
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Yellow_Belle
Guest
I certainly don’t hold to such an argument - did something I wrote imply this?
The OP’s question was based on the absence of women from the last supper and whether this had significance for the reception of both sacraments instituted there (Holy Orders and Holy Communion) or just one (Holy Orders).
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ProVobis
Guest
In the Latin Vulgate there is nothing gender-specific in the Latin, such as vir.
From John (in interlinear form):
From John (in interlinear form):
sacredbible.org/studybible/NT-04_John.htm
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Orchanian
Guest
I think the feeding of the 5000 is more indicative of Communion than is the Last Supper, which was (as others have said) when the apostles were given the power and order to transform bread and wine into the body and blood of Christ. In both examples of the feeding of the thousands, men, women, and children were fed the bread.
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Emma87
Guest
I did use the search function, but I was unable to find an answer to the specific question I am asking. Perhaps it was there, and I missed it. If you have the time, and you know of a particular thread, perhaps you could point me to it? I would appreciate that.I would suggest familiarizing yourself with the search functions of this site. This topic has been covered extensively time and time again. All you need to answer your questions is already here.
I pray you can find what you need to quench the need to challange mother church.
My question for some is are you searching for the TRUTH or just trying to defy the Church teachings that have stood since Jesus walked the earth.
I am not trying to defy the teachings but to gain some insight into them, both for my own understanding and to be better able to answer others when they ask me about my faith. I know that faith requires trust beyond my understanding, and I am trying to get there. However, I’ve also found that learning as much as I can and asking questions when something confuses me has only deepened my faith. I am searching for the Truth.
I’m not trying to challenge the Church on this - I’m very glad I can receive Communion and will continue to do so gratefully regardless of any answers to this post. I am just wondering if anyone had any insight - from scripture, from the Popes, or from their own reflections.
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Emma87
Guest
I like this answer very much! I can’t believe this passage didn’t come to mind, but thank you for bringing it to my attention. I do respect the consensus of the early Church, but my question was why it is this way. But here is Jesus explaining and promising the Eucharist to a whole crowd, whoever wanted to come listen, men and women alike. Excellent!
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graceandglory
Guest
Wow, I’ve been here for years, and haven’t seen this topic come up. It’s totally new to me.I would suggest familiarizing yourself with the search functions of this site. This topic has been covered extensively time and time again. All you need to answer your questions is already here.
I pray you can find what you need to quench the need to challange mother church.
My question for some is are you searching for the TRUTH or just trying to defy the Church teachings that have stood since Jesus walked the earth.
Could you provide a link?
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graceandglory
Guest
Wow, I’ve been here for years, and haven’t seen this topic come up. It’s totally new to me. I did a words search and can’t find what you are talking about.I would suggest familiarizing yourself with the search functions of this site. This topic has been covered extensively time and time again. All you need to answer your questions is already here.
I pray you can find what you need to quench the need to challange mother church.
My question for some is are you searching for the TRUTH or just trying to defy the Church teachings that have stood since Jesus walked the earth.
Could you provide a link?
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chrisb
Guest
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thomasf
Guest
The answer here is simple. Not everyone is meant to partake in ALL of the sacraments. The sacramental priesthood is applicable to men only. Yet those men who are called to that vocation and sacrament cannot partake of the sacrament of marriage. Women are not called to the priesthood, yet they can receive the sacrament of marriage. Baptism, confession, the eucharist are all open to everyone equally.
The eucharist in particular is shown to be open to all when Jesus instructs that we should eat his flesh and drink his blood, otherwise we will have no life in us. To exclude women from that would exclude women from salvation, and we know that is not the case, Jesus came for us to all have eternal life.
The eucharist in particular is shown to be open to all when Jesus instructs that we should eat his flesh and drink his blood, otherwise we will have no life in us. To exclude women from that would exclude women from salvation, and we know that is not the case, Jesus came for us to all have eternal life.
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ChemicalBean
Guest
I agree; the answer above is too simple. The reality is, some are meant to partake in ALL of the sacraments. We have historical record of married clerics. Even today in the Eastern churches, priests may be married if they were ordained after marriage. And in the Latin church, deacons may likewise be ordained while married.
OP: Good question. You have me curious.
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Yellow_Belle
Guest
I agree: it’s a very good question, and I, too, was curious when I read it.
There are some very good, informative answers here, too - much food for thought - but I notice no reference to any of the early Church Fathers on the issue. Does anyone know if the issue of women being permitted to receive Communion was at any time debated in the early Church? Or if their absence from the last supper was ever construed (heretically, obviously
as a prohibition on their reception of the sacrament?
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flatlanderjenn
Guest
I have always been under the impression that women were present during the Last Supper. I’ve known people to think only the 12 Apostles were present, because of artwork by Leonardo, Juan de Juanes, etc, but more than just the 12 were present. When He instituted the Eucharist, many found it too hard to accept and left Him/were no longer His disciples.
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Bluegoat
Guest
I would make a suggestion from another angle - I don’t think the answer that women cannot be priests because none of the apostles were is the best or most comprehensive answer. I’m not saying that it has no truth to it, but it is kind of “circumstantial”. It explains to some extent how we know what God intended, and it is a point of tradition.
The real answer to the why that question has to do with the nature of the priesthood , the Eucharist, and Christ. As was indicated in the OPs post.
But, that part of the discussion is much less commonly explored, as the OP also noted - one usually heres the other explanation. But not, I think, because that is the more important of fundemental point. I think the reason is most people find an exploration of the nature of the Eucharist, the Priesthood, and Christ, a little heavy going in most cases. It is something that takes a long time to cover and by it’s nature is rather abstract and more theology than many enjoy.
So I would say, the theology of the priesthood and who can be ordained is simply different than the theology of the Eucharist and who it is meant for.
The real answer to the why that question has to do with the nature of the priesthood , the Eucharist, and Christ. As was indicated in the OPs post.
But, that part of the discussion is much less commonly explored, as the OP also noted - one usually heres the other explanation. But not, I think, because that is the more important of fundemental point. I think the reason is most people find an exploration of the nature of the Eucharist, the Priesthood, and Christ, a little heavy going in most cases. It is something that takes a long time to cover and by it’s nature is rather abstract and more theology than many enjoy.
So I would say, the theology of the priesthood and who can be ordained is simply different than the theology of the Eucharist and who it is meant for.
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puzzleannie
Guest
every place, after the Last Supper at which the apostles were present to be ordained to the priesthood, when the disciples are gathered the fact that the women are present is mentioned
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WhitSunday
Guest
There were no female Apostles because Jesus chose men for the priesthood (like He chose women for motherhood). The fact that there were no women at the Last Supper doesn’t really say anything about why or if women should receive communion; it points to the fact that male priests should be the ones to administer it (they were the first to receive it…)
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centurionguard
Guest
There leaves no doubt in my mind as to Jesus (“God”) having the soul authority to institute Men into the priesthood. Yet; many there are who would try to fathom under limited human rational as to why Jesus choose men for the priesthood. I believe Jesus (“God”) had far superior supernatural reasons as to why He instituted men only into the priesthood instead of trying fathom it by reason of esteemed human social status.
There are those in human history even in present times who would think that woman have always been the lessor of God’s creation. I would strongly argue against this due to the fact that the greatest supernatural creature ever created by God Almighty even when She was in human form was Mary the Immaculate Conception. Our Blessed Virgin Mary is God’s supernatural masterpiece in creation. And She being supernatural is a Woman.
Just because women may not have been present during the Lord’s Last Supper when Jesus instituted the Holy Sacrament of the Eucharist, makes the human role of a womanhood in the Church in no way less than that of men or the priesthood.
God created “both” man and woman equal in creation.
There are those in human history even in present times who would think that woman have always been the lessor of God’s creation. I would strongly argue against this due to the fact that the greatest supernatural creature ever created by God Almighty even when She was in human form was Mary the Immaculate Conception. Our Blessed Virgin Mary is God’s supernatural masterpiece in creation. And She being supernatural is a Woman.
Just because women may not have been present during the Lord’s Last Supper when Jesus instituted the Holy Sacrament of the Eucharist, makes the human role of a womanhood in the Church in no way less than that of men or the priesthood.
God created “both” man and woman equal in creation.
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