Why are you NOT Catholic, POLL

[Lucretius]

To me, Religion is a social construct created for unifying and sharing the values of a people.

In today’s world, I feel that religion is just humanity trying to make sense of a senseless world. We are scared when faced with the meaningless of life and the finality of death. It is a great coping mechanism to belief in stories or myths that are loved ones have passed down from generation to generation, especially when those faiths promise eternal life and a god who loves you and is so concerned about each and everyone of your actions.

The funny thing is, I, in a sense, agree with you. Without Grace, your nihilist despair is the only conclusion left. I always say that Ecclesiastes is what the world is like without the Incarnation.

Nevertheless, your view is wrong, terribly, terribly wrong.

Christi pax,

Lucretius

St. Peter and St. Paul, pray for us!

 

[Sy_Noe]

To Catholics, the Eucharist is the literal body and blood of our Lord and Savior. To take the Eucharist while simultaneously rejecting this reality is gravely sinful because it is a direct rejection of Christ. We do not prevent non-Catholics from taking the Eucharist to keep it to ourselves, we prevent them from taking it to prevent them from falling into sin.

Paul makes this abundantly clear in 1 Corinthians: (11:23-32) (Specifically, 27-29)

As Catholics, we wish that all people could partake int eh Eucharist. We cannot, however, ignore the reality that most Protestant religions do not have a proper understanding of what the Eucharist is and would therefore be bringing judgment upon themselves by taking it unworthily.

I’m refraining from voting since I have not yet joined another, although I understand the Church teaches OCAC nonetheless. I’ll just say some of the things already mentioned as to why people are not, papal supremacy, the lack of open communion and women clergy, birth control, LGBT matters, speak to why I am not practicing as well. I’ll just touch on one. Lack of open communion is huge to me.

Yes Catholics take some words literally whereas others may believe Christ spoke figuratively even in Jn 6 and believe that those who walked away did so because they were not understanding that Christ was speaking figuratively.

Others more or less agree with Catholic interpretation of a physical real presence as well a spiritual one. They may just not define the mystery of faith as elaborately as the Catholic Church attempts to.

But what I always find interesting is the quoting of Paul and I know people do like to quote Paul on this. But I personally just don’t find it impossible for Christians to discern that Christ gave up His body for us.

Far more important to me is what Jesus said in Jn 6:37 that he would turn no one away who is called by His Father. And I simply can not find myself sitting in judgment as to who is called.

Peace and blessings to all as we walk in faith not by sight.

 

[catholic1seeks]

To the person who mentioned it, yes I’m more interested in this thread out of curiosity and figuring things out for myself; it’s not necessarily to try to prove Catholic doctrines and have a debate here. I am glad clarifications can be made here, though, because I think many difficulties people have with Catholicism are due to misconceptions and misunderstandings.

That said, I find myself in a sticky situation because while I would find myself agreeing with some of the Episcopal/Anglican and Lutheran views and disagreements with the CC, I also at the same time acknowledge papal primacy. Maybe it’s not correctly understood or put into practice… but I do believe the Pope has a connection to Peter historically and thanks to divine prerogative.

 

[Lucretius]

To the person who mentioned it, yes I’m more interested in this thread out of curiosity and figuring things out for myself; it’s not necessarily to try to prove Catholic doctrines and have a debate here. I am glad clarifications can be made here, though, because I think many difficulties people have with Catholicism are due to misconceptions and misunderstandings.

That said, I find myself in a sticky situation because while I would find myself agreeing with some of the Episcopal/Anglican and Lutheran views and disagreements with the CC, I also at the same time acknowledge papal primacy. Maybe it’s not correctly understood or put into practice… but I do believe the Pope has a connection to Peter historically and thanks to divine prerogative.

Here’s some advise from personal experience: Faith is the Divine Working in your mind (I like to use the statement “Faith is the mind participating intimately with the Divine Thoughts”) and as such the first step is to accept doctrine as Divine Revelation, even if you don’t understand the reason, and then go on to (possibly) understand the reasoning behind it (you trust God on Revelation, and then He slowly explains the reasons). Thus, St. Anselm (a Bishop of Canterbury, IIRC), writes (paraphrasing) the axiom of Christian philosophy: “faith seeking understanding.”

To be more particular with a concrete example, I learned to first accept Papal Authority, even if my political beliefs and sentiments were against it, and then slowly learned the logic behind it. Otherwise, I would probably be Eastern Orthodox right now or something

Christi pax,

Lucretius

St. Peter and St. Paul, pray for us!

 

[Birdpreacher]

The funny thing is, I, in a sense, agree with you. Without Grace, your nihilist despair is the only conclusion left. I always say that Ecclesiastes is what the world is like without the Incarnation.

Nevertheless, your view is wrong, terribly, terribly wrong.

Christi pax,

Lucretius

St. Peter and St. Paul, pray for us!

nihilist despair eventually leads to liberation. This life is my only life. No infinite afterlife for me. I must love on my family as hard as I can in this life. I must experience all that I can in this life. This life is too short to let any organzed religion tell me what my purpose is, I must define my own purpose. For me that purpose is to help people, that is how I attain fulfillment.

I would love for there to be a heaven, a giant deity who was watching every decsion I made and rooting me on, its comforting to think about, but its also comforting to think I am destined to win the lotto someday.

 

[KnowtheSilence]

1. I’m a Secular Humanist, a metaphysical naturalist, and a convinced atheist, so I chose the last option.
2. I’m here for a couple of reasons. I’m interested in religion generally, and I have accounts on multiple religious forums. It’s interesting to have a more “on the ground” view of what various members think about things, the diversity of views, reactions to current events, etc, than you’d have if you only got news from the media or public statements by clergy and the like. I tend to mostly lurk, but I’ll chime in here and there if I feel the need.
   Being here has also helped me learn a lot about Catholic theology, which is something that gets frequently misunderstood since I’m in the US and most attitudes are geared towards Protestantism.
   I also like to discuss differences in worldviews, even debate, but I don’t do that much online these days since I’ve begun to have more face-to-face conversations, which I typically find to be more productive and less prone to get heated.

 

[HerCrazierHalf]

1. I’m agnostic, raised Seventh Day Adventist but fell away in my teens.
2. Of all things I ended up marrying a Catholic and came here while researching her faith. Luckily I was able to dispel a few negative beliefs about Catholics and I do find certain aspects interesting.

I suppose that if I was to believe again that I couldn’t be Catholic because:
Birth control - I’m convinced that NFP, the only approved methods other than abstinence is designed to fail. Fail in that it forces a life changing decision when is feeling amorous and slightly compromised in decision making. Plus the overall then of “it’s not your body” that’s included several other beliefs.

Papal infallibility/freedom from error - To declare any earthly person as infallible seems problematic. Additionally, the claim of being free from error and never changing is not something I can accept from organization staffed by people.

There’s many others but I suppose it mainly comes down to my personality quirks. As best I can tell, being Catholic means that in areas of disagreement one is to default to “they’re right, I’m wrong (or misunderstand the issue)”. I’m currently in a place in life where most times but not always I realize “I’ll right and the group is wrong.” This would lead to great frustration in Catholicism.

 

[Entwhistler]

I must experience all that I can in this life. This life is too short to let any organized religion tell me what my purpose is, I must define my own purpose.

I don’t know. I find the ‘I mush define my own purpose’ rather scary. If there is no God then the only thing that keeps Person A’s purpose from being massive school shootings, rape, etc, is the prospect of jail, lethal injection or lack of social acceptance.
If you take all those away…
The nihilistic liberation sounds a little too liberating.

 

[PumpkinCookie]

1. I’m a Noahide or I’m just a regular (Gentile) human being who believes that Judaism is the true religion, but that God does not require Gentiles to become Jews in order to live a good life and have a place in the “World to Come.”

I don’t believe because of many reasons:

God cannot be three.
God cannot be a man.
God cannot be bread.
Jesus cannot be the messiah.
Eternal Hell is a pagan myth.
Original Sin is a pagan myth.
Saints are intermediaries to God and clearly forbidden.
No human being or group of human beings is infallible.

Catholicism is confidently wrong (from my experience and according to my opinion) about the two most important things: God and Man. Their anthropology seems to clash with my experience of human beings. I don’t see original sinners or spiritual death everywhere I go, how over-blown! Further, God has been very clear that He is one, not three, not a man, is not born, does not change, and cannot die. We are not to worship idols or intermediaries. This is fundamental to worship of the true God. Catholic churches are full of both! The evidence is clear: there is no way the God(s) of Christianity are the God of Adam, Noah, Abraham, Issac, and Jacob.

1. I was born a Roman Catholic and believe that an early version of Catholicism is the foundational myth of western civilization so it is extraordinarily important to understand it if one is interested in western civilization and western peoples! I have an immense respect for my Catholic family members and friends, Catholic art, and the everyday morality of faithful Catholics (minus idolatry of course). I like CAF because we are free to discuss important topics. No one in my orbit wants to talk about anything of substance!

 

[Zabdi_Premjit]

WHY ARE YOU NOT CATHOLIC?

This poll lists different choices as to what prevents you*** intellectually*** from joining the Catholic Church. There may be practical issues relating to the intellectual issue, but this poll is more about Catholic doctrine and beliefs than issues regarding family or culture, for example.

I am genuinely interested, so any respectful feedback relating to your choice would be greatly appreciated.

PLEASE, in a post, identify

• (1) Your current religious adherence
• (2) Why you are interested in Catholicism – after all, you are here at CAF

I put “The nature of the Papacy: papal jurisdiction and infallibility,” as that is the primary reason my Church is not in communion with the Church of Rome.

(1) Orthodox
(2) I like theology, and religion in general interests me. To be honest, though, I mostly peruse the Eastern Catholic forum, and as a Christian of the Byzantine-rite, I don’t feel particularly out of place there. I joined CAF long ago as an Eastern Christian interested in Eastern Christianity.

 

[jane_doe]

WHY ARE YOU NOT CATHOLIC?

This poll lists different choices as to what prevents you*** intellectually*** from joining the Catholic Church. There may be practical issues relating to the intellectual issue, but this poll is more about Catholic doctrine and beliefs than issues regarding family or culture, for example.

I am genuinely interested, so any respectful feedback relating to your choice would be greatly appreciated.

PLEASE, in a post, identify

• (1) Your current religious adherence
• (2) Why you are interested in Catholicism – after all, you are here at CAF

1. I’m a Mormon. I am not a Catholic because I disagree with the Catholic doctrine.

The major issues that get me: the Eucharist (I see it as symbolic), confession to a priest, the trinity, the extended Catholic cosmology (purgatory, burning Hell, angel classes, etc), Saints

Medium-issues: Marian doctrines, BC, the Catholic arguments reliant on history

Non-isseus: the pope, the idea of Sacraments (I do have issues with the particulars).

On a more social side of things, I have had difficulties with Catholic culture. I find RCC culture/doctrine to be very lawyer-ish (no so with eastern Catholic churches). I also have had difficulties learning about the Catholic church from an actual Catholic person because instead people tell me to read a website (not a person) or attend RCIA (logistically non-feasiable for me).

1. While I do disagree with Catholic doctrine, it is a treasured faith by many, and I would like to learn and better understand the faith so many cherish.

 

[catholic1seeks]

1. I’m a Mormon. I am not a Catholic because I disagree with the Catholic doctrine.

The major issues that get me: the Eucharist (I see it as symbolic), confession to a priest, the trinity, the extended Catholic cosmology (purgatory, burning Hell, angel classes, etc), Saints

Medium-issues: Marian doctrines, BC, the Catholic arguments reliant on history

Non-isseus: the pope, the idea of Sacraments (I do have issues with the particulars).

On a more social side of things, I have had difficulties with Catholic culture. I find RCC culture/doctrine to be very lawyer-ish (no so with eastern Catholic churches). I also have had difficulties learning about the Catholic church from an actual Catholic person because instead people tell me to read a website (not a person) or attend RCIA (logistically non-feasiable for me).

1. While I do disagree with Catholic doctrine, it is a treasured faith by many, and I would like to learn and better understand the faith so many cherish.

I know I said that I didn’t really want this thread to be about debate and such, but I was wondering: why is the Pope more of a non-issue, when the Pope represents the Catholic understanding of Christian authority and interpretation of what is truly Divine Revelation? It seems like acceptance of the Pope would make the other issues lesser ones, ya know?

Catholic cosmology is not very complex in that people either A) Spend eternity with God if they so choose (HEAVEN) or B) separate themselves willingly from Him (HELL). Purgatory is just taking off your dirty shoes before entering the great mansion. It’s a natural result of needing to be ready to spend eternity with the All-Holy; we cannot be attached to anything that is not holy. I think part of the issue non-Catholics have with purgatory is giving a name to it. After all, even Eastern Orthodox believe in a concept similar to purgatory. It’s more about the purging than it is about a separate realm of its own.

 

[jane_doe]

I know I said that I didn’t really want this thread to be about debate and such, but I was wondering: why is the Pope more of a non-issue, when the Pope represents the Catholic understanding of Christian authority and interpretation of what is truly Divine Revelation? It seems like acceptance of the Pope would make the other issues lesser ones, ya know?

It’s more of the reverse: if I were to somehow resolve rest of the issues, the Pope would just follow along.

 

[steido01]

A question for you. What do you make of Matthew 16, and Jesus changing Simon’s name to Peter (I believe the Greek word is “Petros,” which literally mean “Rock,” and which was not a name prior to this in any recorded history.), and then saying “Upon this Rock (“Petros”) I will build my Church.” ?

'Bout the same as the Orthodox make of it. Peter demonstrated great faith and Christ acknowledged this. Peter deserves a place of honor. But he is not a “Vicar of Christ” on earth any more than any other bishop.

 

[catholic1seeks]

It’s more of the reverse: if I were to somehow resolve rest of the issues, the Pope would just follow along.

That could always work for you personally and others as well.

But since it is from the Pope and the bishops (the “magisterium,” or teaching office of the Church) that we get a correct understanding of what is authentic Christian teaching, I would have thought it would make more sense to be convinced of the role of the Pope (and bishops) first, as successors to the Apostles.

 

[jane_doe]

That could always work for you personally and others as well.

But since it is from the Pope and the bishops (the “magisterium,” or teaching office of the Church) that we get a correct understanding of what is authentic Christian teaching, I would have thought it would make more sense to be convinced of the role of the Pope (and bishops) first, as successors to the Apostles.

I can get that logic, it’s just not how I think. To me (as a non-Catholic), the argument that I should believe something because its from the Pope himself is weak because I do not recognize the authority of the Pope/Church. If I were to recognize the authority of the Pope/Church, then accepting the person would come easy.

Again, that’s just my view as a non-Catholic, and I respect that others see differently (and wish to understand them better).

 

[Jeanne_S]

Nope, I am no longer Catholic. Just because the church has a policy of once Catholic always Catholic, it doesn’t mean that it really has a bearing anyone or anything except for people who may believe that it makes a difference.

I have renounced Catholicism and will not be going back.

It isn’t Catholic Policy that once a Catholic always a Catholic.It is the effect of being baptized into the faith.The a Holy Spirit brand your soul with the mark of Catholicism.You can’t change that anymore than you can change your fingerprints.I may not have explained it perfectly,however it is a fact .

 

[Birdpreacher]

I don’t know. I find the ‘I mush define my own purpose’ rather scary. If there is no God then the only thing that keeps Person A’s purpose from being massive school shootings, rape, etc, is the prospect of jail, lethal injection or lack of social acceptance.
If you take all those away…
The nihilistic liberation sounds a little too liberating.

Look inside AMerica’s prisons. Virtually No Atheists. (0.07%)

Its very possible to good without a god. Nonbelievers just recognize the intrinsic value of being good, they are not doing it for a supernatural reward or trying to avoid eternal punishment.

 

[meltzerboy]

Look inside AMerica’s prisons. Virtually No Atheists. (0.07%)

Its very possible to good without a god. Nonbelievers just recognize the intrinsic value of being good, they are not doing it for a supernatural reward or trying to avoid eternal punishment.

This sounds a bit like Judaism. However, in the latter, “the intrinsic value of being good” is shaped by G-d’s will, and it is not primarily “being good” that is important, but rather “doing good.” This kind of behavior is not, or should not, be performed to reap reward or avoid punishment.

 

[Birdpreacher]

This sounds a bit like Judaism. However, in the latter, “the intrinsic value of being good” is shaped by G-d’s will, and it is not primarily “being good” that is important, but rather “doing good.” This kind of behavior is not, or should not, be performed to reap reward or avoid punishment.

Yeah, the few of the afterlife in Judaism is so surprisingly vague when you consider how detailed Catholicism is with Hell/Purgatory/Heaven.