Why are you not Catholic?

[spedteacherita]

Out of curiosity what exactly has a Pope decreed that you can’t agree with? When you say Universal Jurisdiction I am taking that to mean infallibility and my finding is that most people don’t really have a correct understanding of that term.

There has only been two "ex cathedra’ teachings since the inception of the Church and those are:

The Immaculate Conception
The Assumption of Mary

Other than that the Church only says that the Pope is infallible when teaching on morals and faith but I’ve never seen anything I could argue with. Therefore I am curious if it is just the general concept or if you have a specific example.

Thanks

Can you clarify “ex Cathedra” for me? I’ve heard it but I’ve forgotten the meaning.

Had to go edit because I didn’t say “Thanks” and God bless!!

I’ve done it now, so I can post

 

[iDdraig]

I spent the majority of my life always accepting of my Agnostic beliefs. For me, structured religion seemed to come at a cost of having to conform to beliefs that were not mine and I spent many years being jugged by Christians that looked down upon me for not believing the way they did. However in 2005, I started to feel this calling towards the Church, like a calling to belong to something greater, even though I showed little devotion to following Christ. As more years passed, my wife convinced me to reach out to a local parish and look into RCIA. Even before my conversion, I struggled with both Church teachings and elements in the Bible and although I shouldn’t have, I converted to Catholicism two years ago and since then, I have struggled with my faith because I haven’t be able to fully accept it. There are those that say a Catholic must conform to all Church teachings, to accept the Bible as an infallible holy book. For me, the Bible is a collection of stories that tries to explain a particular event to a particular audience at a particular time whether divine inspiration was present or not and I have no issues with that, because I believe it serves as a foundation to something greater, something the Church has continued to deliver these past 2000 years even with its questionable history.

Because of this, I feel that I wear the mask of a Catholic, but I am not a true Catholic, a Christian, a follower of Christ. I don’t praise his name as I should, I don’t love him as I should, I don’t submit to all Church teachings and I don’t like how many Christians, not just Catholics, seem to forget “thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.” For me its not whether the Church is right or wrong, it’s a religion, a foundation of beliefs that people can choose to follow or not. I know that I may never fully embrace Christianity and I know that I will struggle with this for many years. However, I know in my heart that I would rather be a struggling Catholic than belong to any other Christian denomination. This past year I have began to study Buddhism as a philosophy, a way to help me focus on the present and help eliminate unnecessary distractions that I hope will allow me to one day embrace God and fully accept Him and the Church within my heart and my life. Till then, I feel that I will continue to look out from behind the glass and struggle with the possibility that I, not God, will prevent myself from ever walking inside and truly embracing my right to call myself a Catholic.

 

[Micosil]

The best way to summarize all of this is that in all the empirical ways I can verify, Catholicism looks like another broken part of the Church, with many strengths that the rest of us can learn from, including the Papacy with whom we should all seek communion. it may be that it is more than this and that I should have more faith.

Edwin

While I don’t agree that the the Catholic Church is another broken part of the Church, I commend you for the bolded out part.

 

[MaryT777]

Love is not condoning one’s sins but trying to help them avoid the occasion of sin altogether. That’s real love. Misguided compassion is not love. God Bless, Memaw

Yes, well said.

Mary.

 

[spedteacherita]

Pardon my interruption with your conversation with Share Love but from my point of view Catholics have been bullied into silence for almost as long as America has existed. If you research the history of our church in America you will see some very disturbing things. So, I don’t understand why is this so surprising to noncatholics? I never come out and tell people that I am a Catholic…I used to, but no more. My little corner of America is very anticatholic. I would go so far as to say many Catholics where I live know exactly what I’m talking about. I guess I could turn the question around and ask “why should we be very vocal about our faith when we might be ostracized for it?” There is only so much bullying and discrimination one can take. Sorry if I sound bitter, I don’t mean to. I truly love my faith. My heart aches to tell others about how I feel after I receive communion.

I am so sorry that you have felt this way!!! My best friend in high school was Catholic and we never had an issue. It was a beautiful friendship. I never heard anything out of my family about Catholics either. I apologize for what you went thru…Christians should be more Christ-like to everyone - but moreso toward other Christians…it doesn’t put out a good front for Christianity if we are backbiting each other.

God bless you and know that if I saw you and knew you were Catholic that you would be welcomed and honored as a fellow Christian.

God bless

Rita

 

[spedteacherita]

I think there’s strong evidence for both to be honest. That’s why in the end I left it up for God and found, as you say “Catholics aren’t as fellowship oriented as Protestants.”

Edit- actually I wouldn’t say that’s entirely true. I see that Catholics hang out with other Catholics in their families and schools; but still don’t take it seriously.

In my neighborhood there’s literally no difference between Catholic parents who send their kids to Catholic schools, and public parents.

I don’t get where the heart is to let everyone know about Jesus? Why is it so lacking?

There are a lot of Lutheran Churches like this as well. (I know nothing about the ELCA as I’ve never been a member)

My lifetime of being a LCMS member has had me be a member of several churches along the way. Each of them really did not have an active enthusiasm for sharing Jesus - as well as welcoming new people…even new teachers into their “family.” I did find a church down in Southwest Michigan where the people were the friendliest Lutherans I had ever met. It was amazing to me!!! They consider themselves a “Forever Family” and it shows as they work to mission projects and welcome new people. They actually remembered my name the second Sunday I went!!

I had to leave my favorite church because of a disability that made my decision to come back to my hometown in Northern Michigan. I started attending my local LCMS (actually the one I was baptized in) and I had NO ONE come up and welcome me, invite me to fellowship or anything. I went back several times as it was the closest LCMS church for me to go to. Then I found out about an LCMC church (Lutheran Congregations in Mission for Christ) and found the same friendliness as my church “down below” (that’s an “up north” term for southern Michigan). They’re very mission-minded and, if, because of my disability they haven’t seen me for awhile they call or stop by to make sure everything is going fine.

Unfortunately, our Christian Churches of all faiths really do have to look back and see what and how the early church got excited and spread the news about Jesus. His disciples saw him after he rose from the grave and they suffered persecution and death for it. I can’t believe that 12 men would be martyred for a made up story.

Stepping of my corner soapbox. God bless all!!!

Rita

 

[MaryT777]

There are a lot of Lutheran Churches like this as well. (I know nothing about the ELCA as I’ve never been a member)

My lifetime of being a LCMS member has had me be a member of several churches along the way. Each of them really did not have an active enthusiasm for sharing Jesus - as well as welcoming new people…even new teachers into their “family.” I did find a church down in Southwest Michigan where the people were the friendliest Lutherans I had ever met. It was amazing to me!!! They consider themselves a “Forever Family” and it shows as they work to mission projects and welcome new people. They actually remembered my name the second Sunday I went!!

I had to leave my favorite church because of a disability that made my decision to come back to my hometown in Northern Michigan. I started attending my local LCMS (actually the one I was baptized in) and I had NO ONE come up and welcome me, invite me to fellowship or anything. I went back several times as it was the closest LCMS church for me to go to. Then I found out about an LCMC church (Lutheran Congregations in Mission for Christ) and found the same friendliness as my church “down below” (that’s an “up north” term for southern Michigan). They’re very mission-minded and, if, because of my disability they haven’t seen me for awhile they call or stop by to make sure everything is going fine.

Unfortunately, our Christian Churches of all faiths really do have to look back and see what and how the early church got excited and spread the news about Jesus. His disciples saw him after he rose from the grave and they suffered persecution and death for it. I can’t believe that 12 men would be martyred for a made up story.

Stepping of my corner soapbox. God bless all!!!

Rita

Eloquent post, and Amen.

Hope this finds you currently well.

Mary.

 

[SalusaSecondus]

Any of you come “this close” to embracing Catholicism, but haven’t been able to? How come?

Did any of you start as Catholic but ended up converting to Eastern Orthodox or Anglican or Lutheran or something else? Why?

Any of you “cafeteria Catholics” and are comfortable with it? How did you reconcile that?

Just trying to find my place in this world!

I started out as nonreligious, then I converted to Catholicism in college because I thought it was right for me. I deconverted about 10 years later because it wasn’t working.

 

[D0UBTFIRE]

I started out as nonreligious, then I converted to Catholicism in college because I thought it was right for me. I deconverted about 10 years later because it wasn’t working.

What do you mean by “wasn’t working”?

 

[SalusaSecondus]

What do you mean by “wasn’t working”?

It wasn’t giving me any peace. If Jesus said peace be with you, my peace I give you. And my burden is easy and my yoke is light, why was I feeling even more encumbered by sin and doubt? Either I was doing something wrong or what I was being taught was wrong. My faith was either going to break or it was going to break me. Luckily it was the former. I remember telling my wife that I have to switch churches or simply be non religious again, what I couldn’t do was stay where I was. Thankfully a local Lutheran told me the gospel and the law and gospel distinction. It all made perfect sense why I was in such spiritual agony.

 

[mek42]

I’m lapsed, unconfirmed. Now, my agnosticism comes from my sense of reason along with a great tolerance for uncertainty.

Why did I leave as an adolescent? My dad was an alcoholic who stopped drinking, but made no other changes in his life. He remained an unpleasant individual. I was dropped off at ccd and picked up after mass. Beyond trying to divorce myself from how my dad lived his life, another part of me thought, "If they don’t do what they espouse value to (attend mass) it must not be important.

In between, my faith became faith that God would do whatever was best for me in whatever came afterward. Ironically, this tenet of faith allowed me to bdcome non-spiritual and ‘devolve’ into just trying not to be a jerk to others.

 

[D0UBTFIRE]

It wasn’t giving me any peace. If Jesus said peace be with you, my peace I give you. And my burden is easy and my yoke is light, why was I feeling even more encumbered by sin and doubt? Either I was doing something wrong or what I was being taught was wrong. My faith was either going to break or it was going to break me. Luckily it was the former. I remember telling my wife that I have to switch churches or simply be non religious again, what I couldn’t do was stay where I was. Thankfully a local Lutheran told me the gospel and the law and gospel distinction. It all made perfect sense why I was in such spiritual agony.

Hmm, I think I can relate… so what did the Lutheran say? And did you officially convert to Lutheranism? How does that happen?

 

[SalusaSecondus]

Hmm, I think I can relate… so what did the Lutheran say? And did you officially convert to Lutheranism? How does that happen?

Yes I officially converted. I went to my local Lutheran congregation, and asked the pastor to become a Lutheran. There was some catechesis involved. My wife and I had to meet up wiTh the pastor once per week for a few months. Then we got confirmed in the congregation.

 

[rcwitness]

All of your evidence is anecdotal. A Catholic or any person of any faith can name examples of the exact same thing happening in Protestant churches.

It is important for us as followers of Jesus Christ (regardless of “denomination”) to look at what the church we are a part of stands for and not get caught up in the weeds of what the people in the church do or say. We are all fallen humans and if our barometer for a successful church is based on the humans within it we will be setting ourselves up for disappointment time and time again.

I just recently converted and did so because what the Catholic Church teaches and proclaims is far more fulfilling than any of the protestant teachings I came across. And that is completely different than which church has the best country club atmosphere or whether they have good programs, or whether you feel “welcomed” when you come into church.

Do you want the truth when it comes to the Gospel or do you want warm and fuzzy feelings because someone told you good morning and gave you a hug?

Just my two cents.

That’s what I believe too. This is going after the people and not Jesus. If you feel called to share Jesus with others, then do it. Don’t do it with only people who ‘feel’ the same way. Share Jesus when it’s not convenient. Take the time to grow into a parish. Engage Catholics about their faith. Enthusiasm doesn’t always mean genuine faith.

But yes, lots of Catholics are not genuine probably. That makes me want to be a genuine Catholic.

 

[lonegreywolf20]

Any of you come “this close” to embracing Catholicism, but haven’t been able to? How come?

Did any of you start as Catholic but ended up converting to Eastern Orthodox or Anglican or Lutheran or something else? Why?

Any of you “cafeteria Catholics” and are comfortable with it? How did you reconcile that?

Just trying to find my place in this world!

I used to be Catholic as my whole family is Catholic. So I was raised Catholic and did the sacraments because it was what my family wanted me to do. My heart was never really in it though. In my teens I rebelled and stopped going to mass. Then in my mid-thirties I met my wife who was non-denominational (she too at one time was Catholic) and she showed me the love of Christ through her. I also learned that Jesus can be accessed and visited at anytime and where ever you are. That a building of brick and mortar is not needed.

I still had issues though with different churches and bounced around 5+ years. I even went back to mass at the local Catholic Church for a time. However, me going back to the Catholic church didn’t last long as so many rules of the Catholic Church just do not line up with scripture and is the main reason why I am no longer Catholic.

An example would be marriage. No where in the Bible does it say that you must be married by a Catholic priest in order to be considered married by God. No where in the Bible does it say to betray your wife by getting a radical sanation (my wife would not get married by a Catholic priest as she believes that we are already married and I fully agree with her that we do not need to be married once again to have a valid marriage in the eyes of God) with or without her knowledge as I was told to do by Catholics.

Almost a year ago I went to a Lutheran service for the first time and I knew that I had found my church, since then my two children were baptized Lutheran and my wife and I have become Lutherans.

 

[Potter]

Short answer: because the Episcopalians got me first, and I love my parish church too much to leave it, even though I find the traditionalism of Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy far more attractive than modernism.

Longer answer: Back in 2011 I wasn’t Christian; my religious beliefs were Marcus Borg-like, roughly. When I decided to attend a Christian service again, I chose the Episcopalian church because they were liturgical, which I’d never experienced, and because they were liberal enough for me not to feel too out-of-place. Coming from a very modern Protestant sect (Oneness/Holiness Pentecostalism), discovering the Anglican tradition was like being introduced to Christianity for the first time. It was completely different from the faith I had rejected, and resonated with my love for beauty, truth, and order, as well as my passion for western history and civilization. With every passing year I’ve found myself less impressed by the liberality that attracted me, though, and more interested in traditional, orthodox Christianity. In the last year or so ,for instance, virtually all of my religious reading and podcast-listening has come from Catholic writers or those very close to them, like Lewis. If I had to leave my city, it’s very likely I would draw closer to Rome, but my home parish is fairly conservative and epitomizes my ideal of a village church.

 

[Richard_White]

It wasn’t giving me any peace. If Jesus said peace be with you, my peace I give you. And my burden is easy and my yoke is light, why was I feeling even more encumbered by sin and doubt? Either I was doing something wrong or what I was being taught was wrong. My faith was either going to break or it was going to break me. Luckily it was the former. I remember telling my wife that I have to switch churches or simply be non religious again, what I couldn’t do was stay where I was. Thankfully a local Lutheran told me the gospel and the law and gospel distinction. It all made perfect sense why I was in such spiritual agony.

You know, the reason that we feel sometimes encumbered by sin is because we become very sensitive to the presence of sinfulness in our lives and in the world around us. This is a good thing, because it shows that are beginning to feel the True Love of God.

When it comes to doubt, there are many resources that can help you get over it.

I find it hard to believe that you could not find a nice send of peace from the Lord Jesus and that you would so quickly gave up the beauties of the Catholic faith for Lutheranism. I mean, listen to the name: why would anyone want to join a denomination that was founded by a man (a heretic, nonetheless), when you were already living in God’s Truth.

May God bless everyone on this thread and guide them to His Holy Catholic Church!

 

[Richard_White]

I used to be Catholic as my whole family is Catholic. So I was raised Catholic and did the sacraments because it was what my family wanted me to do. My heart was never really in it though. In my teens I rebelled and stopped going to mass. Then in my mid-thirties I met my wife who was non-denominational (she too at one time was Catholic) and she showed me the love of Christ through her. I also learned that Jesus can be accessed and visited at anytime and where ever you are. That a building of brick and mortar is not needed.

I still had issues though with different churches and bounced around 5+ years. I even went back to mass at the local Catholic Church for a time. However, me going back to the Catholic church didn’t last long as so many rules of the Catholic Church just do not line up with scripture and is the main reason why I am no longer Catholic.

An example would be marriage. No where in the Bible does it say that you must be married by a Catholic priest in order to be considered married by God. No where in the Bible does it say to betray your wife by getting a radical sanation (my wife would not get married by a Catholic priest as she believes that we are already married and I fully agree with her that we do not need to be married once again to have a valid marriage in the eyes of God) with or without her knowledge as I was told to do by Catholics.

Almost a year ago I went to a Lutheran service for the first time and I knew that I had found my church, since then my two children were baptized Lutheran and my wife and I have become Lutherans.

First of all, there is nothing that the Catholic Church teaches or practices that is not from God and can be found somewhere in the Bible.

In regard to marriage, Jesus clearly elevated it to sacramental level (and I believe that the Lutherans have it as a Sacrament, too). Anyway, although other marriages among non-Catholics are still recognized as valid, when you are Catholic, you must be married within the Church in order for it to be valid. In addition, the Catholic Church is the only one with the true Sacraments, and so therefore the only way to have a true Matrimony consecrated to God is through the Catholic Church.

Do you have any other objections that you would like me or anyone else to clear up for you?

May God bless you abundantly and lead you to His Catholic Faith!

 

[lonegreywolf20]

First of all, there is nothing that the Catholic Church teaches or practices that is not from God and can be found somewhere in the Bible.

In regard to marriage, Jesus clearly elevated it to sacramental level (and I believe that the Lutherans have it as a Sacrament, too). Anyway, although other marriages among non-Catholics are still recognized as valid, when you are Catholic, you must be married within the Church in order for it to be valid. In addition, the Catholic Church is the only one with the true Sacraments, and so therefore the only way to have a true Matrimony consecrated to God is through the Catholic Church.

Do you have any other objections that you would like me or anyone else to clear up for you?

May God bless you abundantly and lead you to His Catholic Faith!

You have cleared nothing up and only further prove why I am no longer Catholic.

Yes, it is a sacrament in the Lutheran church, but where the Catholic church fails by making a man-made rule that says if you are Catholic you must marry in the Catholic church, the Lutheran church accepts marriages that were not done in a Lutheran church. In other words, our marriage is valid and consecrated by God, no matter what the Catholic church wants to believe with it’s man made rule.

God already blesses us abundantly and get this, I do not need to be Catholic to receive His abundant blessings.

 

[KnitNut]

In addition, the Catholic Church is the only one with the true Sacraments, and so therefore the only way to have a true Matrimony consecrated to God is through the Catholic Church.

Actually, as a Catholic, your leadership has declared (officially) that multiple Churches (Oriental Orthodox, Eastern Orthodox, Assyrian Church of the East, the PNCC…can’t remember if there are others, you’ll have to check your church documents) maintain Apostolic succession and have so-called “valid” sacraments.