Why are you not Catholic?

[lonegreywolf20]

It’s absolutely NOT wrong.

In fact, it is commanded upon us to do so.

I agree to disagree.

 

[PRmerger]

I agree to disagree.

You need to consider why you believe what you believe, and how it cannot stand up to questioning, wolf.

When the response is, “I don’t care what you say, I’m going to do what I want to do!” it ought to give someone pause and it ought to make him see that his position cannot stand up to scrutiny.

Always have a reason for the hope that is within you–1 Peter 3:15

 

[lonegreywolf20]

You need to consider why you believe what you believe, and how it cannot stand up to questioning, wolf.

When the response is, “I don’t care what you say, I’m going to do what I want to do!” it ought to give someone pause and it ought to make him see that his position cannot stand up to scrutiny.

Always have a reason for the hope that is within you–1 Peter 3:15

I agree to disagree.

 

[PRmerger]

I agree to disagree.

Then you are, sadly, disagreeing with Scripture. :sad_yes:

 

[Contarini]

Then you are, sadly, disagreeing with Scripture. :sad_yes:

I think it’s a bit of a stretch to suggest that the “going back and forth” on this forum is what Scripture is calling for. There’s a point where we need to be ready to just back off and give the appearance of conceding a point when it’s not worth while. (Not necessarily talking about your exchange with lonegreywolf here–more about my runaround with you and steve b earlier on the thread, which I kept going long after it had lost any utility it had ever had.)

Edwin

 

[lonegreywolf20]

Then you are, sadly, disagreeing with Scripture. :sad_yes:

No there comes a time when it is more beneficial to stop.

2 Timothy 2:14

Remind them of these things, and charge them before God not to quarrel about words, which does no good, but only ruins the hearers.

 

[PRmerger]

I think it’s a bit of a stretch to suggest that the “going back and forth” on this forum is what Scripture is calling for. There’s a point where we need to be ready to just back off and give the appearance of conceding a point when it’s not worth while. (Not necessarily talking about your exchange with lonegreywolf here–more about my runaround with you and steve b earlier on the thread, which I kept going long after it had lost any utility it had ever had.)

Edwin

Oh, please don’t misunderstand. I am not saying we are commanded by Scripture to participate in forums. #absurd

What I AM saying is that it’s absolutely contrary to Scripture to not be able to have a reason for the position you hold, esp. in the context of religious discussions.

So the position “I don’t care what you say. You’re not going to change my mind” in this context is absolutely contrary to Scripture.

Not to mention, it’s nothing a rational person with an intellect ought to ever embrace.

 

[PRmerger]

No there comes a time when it is more beneficial to stop.

2 Timothy 2:14

Remind them of these things, and charge them before God not to quarrel about words, which does no good, but only ruins the hearers.

But you have yet to offer any good reason for what you believe and why you believe it, and how the logical application of what you believe cannot be applied to my question.

 

[PRmerger]

I think it’s a bit of a stretch to suggest that the “going back and forth” on this forum is what Scripture is calling for. There’s a point where we need to be ready to just back off and give the appearance of conceding a point when it’s not worth while. (Not necessarily talking about your exchange with lonegreywolf here–more about my runaround with you and steve b earlier on the thread, which I kept going long after it had lost any utility it had ever had.)

Edwin

Incidentally, I am in the midst of a discussion with my 3 daughters (#4 is, thankfully, blissfully in agreement with whatever mom and dad say) who happen to think the SCOTUS decision on gay “marriage” is absolutely wonderful.

I would never present our position (and the CC’s position) with: that’s what we believe and nothing you say is going to change our mind!

Nor would I countenance their saying, “You’re not going to change my mind. No matter what you say.”

No. We are attempting to offer reasons for the hope that is in us, regarding what marriage is for and why gay unions contravene this purpose, and are listening to their arguments why gay unions are absolutely fine.

#dialogue
#praythatitsfruitful

 

[mek42]

Do you know much about this, medically?

What is involved in determining that? Would it be legal?

How would “continuation” be done? Would it require a surrogate?

Not much at all, it may well not be detectable with today’s technology. There would be no maternal hormone change prior to implantation.

A surrogate is the only way I can think of to preserve the unimplanted life in this case.

 

[mek42]

I have virtually no stake in this forum, but does everyone here but like two people have to discuss the schematics of marriages & weird what-if’s about ovaries? Can’t this be moved to its own discussion so as to not crowd out non-Catholics such as myself who want to engage in dialogue with others? Please?

Sorry. Read this after my latest reply. Two threads is a better idea. Maybe one for just why one is not Catholic and another to discuss those reasons.

 

[exnihilo]

I have concerns with some Catholic doctrines (mostly Marian ones) but I have grown to deeply respect Catholicism to the point where I am leaning toward attending RCIA in the fall and see if I can overcome my obstacles with God’s help and that of the RCIA staff.

However, I will not convert if I cannot genuinely assent to all Catholic teachings. I am a genuine person who doesn’t want to pretend to be something I am not.

I admire your desire to stay true to yourself. As a convert myself after learning the truth about Catholic doctrine I became convinced of most of it. Even the more difficult matters I could at least see the logic of. But I had to get to the point of seeing the Church as teacher to really embrace all the doctrines and convert.

Another big obstacle is that my wife is a lifelong evangelical protestant who has a lot of misconceptions about Catholicism. We recently had a “discussion” about it and she threatened to leave me if I decided to join the Catholic Church.

After I convinced her that I am genuinely being led by the Holy Spirit to inquire more into Catholicism, she indicated she would not oppose it if I truly felt God was leading me to attend RCIA, especially after I told her that RCIA was several months in length and that I could leave it if I still had serious reservations after attending for a few months.

I had a similar problem. My wife thought I was nuts and was really mad about the idea of tearing her away from our church family. Some think the Catholic Church is wrong or even evil. For those folks they see a danger in Catholicism. My wife simply didn’t see any reason to be Catholic. She wasn’t concerned about doctrine. So I first had to get her to care about those differences. I was as patient as I could be. I said I would go to Mass by myself and then we’d go together to our old church. At first I really thought that was what I’d be doing and honestly wasn’t looking forward to it. But eventually my wife was converted and we joined the Church together. God bless you on your journey!

 

[Tommy999]

I admire your desire to stay true to yourself. As a convert myself after learning the truth about Catholic doctrine I became convinced of most of it. Even the more difficult matters I could at least see the logic of. But I had to get to the point of seeing the Church as teacher to really embrace all the doctrines and convert.

I had a similar problem. My wife thought I was nuts and was really mad about the idea of tearing her away from our church family. Some think the Catholic Church is wrong or even evil. For those folks they see a danger in Catholicism. My wife simply didn’t see any reason to be Catholic. She wasn’t concerned about doctrine. So I first had to get her to care about those differences. I was as patient as I could be. I said I would go to Mass by myself and then we’d go together to our old church. At first I really thought that was what I’d be doing and honestly wasn’t looking forward to it. But eventually my wife was converted and we joined the Church together. God bless you on your journey!

Thanks for the reply, exnihilo;. I’m glad to hear that you have been where I am now and you and your wife made it through fine. In my wife’s case, she cares about doctrine but she cares even more about plugging in to the fellowship of whatever local church we attend and making Christian friends.

I’m not sure how good a fit her attitude would be with Catholicism, because in my one visit to a Catholic Mass I found that worshipping the Lord and holy communion was the focal point of Mass which is as it should be and appeals to me. However, the friendliness of the people and finding a place of service that would allow her to make friends is very important to her. She is very outgoing and friendly, and some of her current friends say “she’s never met a stranger”.

I’m giving the situation to the Lord and will trust Him with our future and see what happens next.

 

[exnihilo]

Thanks for the reply, exnihilo;. I’m glad to hear that you have been where I am now and you and your wife made it through fine. In my wife’s case, she cares about doctrine but she cares even more about plugging in to the fellowship of whatever local church we attend and making Christian friends.

I’m not sure how good a fit her attitude would be with Catholicism, because in my one visit to a Catholic Mass I found that worshipping the Lord and holy communion was the focal point of Mass, which appeals to me. However, the friendliness of the people and finding a place of service that would allow her to make friends is very important to her.

My wife is also still plenty concerned about the fellowship. It seems to me not unusual for that to be more difficult in the Catholic Church. I’m like you where the worship appealed enough to me to not have fellowship be a hindrance. My wife, though initially like yours, eventually came to appreciate the worship above fellowship after better understanding the teachings, particularly the Eucharist. I wish I had advice for how to get plugged in but I’m still working on that myself!

But certainly have hope and patience. My wife is now extremely enthusiastic to be Catholic. I used to listen to Catholic podcasts surreptitiously and now she is listening to them and Catholic radio all the time. She now feels bad that I had to hide my interest and passion. But it was worth it get to where we are today.

 

[Tommy999]

My wife is also still plenty concerned about the fellowship. It seems to me not unusual for that to be more difficult in the Catholic Church. I’m like you where the worship appealed enough to me to not have fellowship be a hindrance. My wife, though initially like yours, eventually came to appreciate the worship above fellowship after better understanding the teachings, particularly the Eucharist. I wish I had advice for how to get plugged in but I’m still working on that myself!

But certainly have hope and patience. My wife is now extremely enthusiastic to be Catholic. I used to listen to Catholic podcasts surreptitiously and now she is listening to them and Catholic radio all the time. She now feels bad that I had to hide my interest and passion. But it was worth it get to where we are today.

Thanks again, exnihilo. There appear to be a lot of similarities in our stories. I would very much appreciate your prayers. I am encouraged by your experience.

 

[Tomdstone]

We have come to a point in our lives where we do not want anymore children. I already have a total of seven children. Two is more than enough for my wife and I because of her illness. We do not need anymore children as it is already tough on her as it is not being able to be the mother that she wants to be. She is generally too fatigued to do anything with them that a normal mother can do. Most of the care of our children already falls on me, along with cleaning the home, cooking our meals, driving everyone everywhere. Our calendar is full of doctor’s appointments for both my children and my wife.

All the above on top of me trying to earn at least a small income to add to my wife’s disability…
We have talked this over with our pastor and our pastor says that we are fine and clear.

For a family to have seven children is extremely admirable. In the local Catholic parish here, most families will have two or at most three children. Except at the local SSPX where you will see families of eight children or more. And across the street, there is a Muslim family with six children and more on the way.

 

[Tomdstone]

No idea.

Look it up yourself right here:

google.com/

So you present statistics, but have no idea where they come from and expect others to research what you claim is true?

 

[rcwitness]

I’m not sure how good a fit her attitude would be with Catholicism, because in my one visit to a Catholic Mass I found that worshipping the Lord and holy communion was the focal point of Mass which is as it should be and appeals to me. However, the friendliness of the people and finding a place of service that would allow her to make friends is very important to her. She is very outgoing and friendly, and some of her current friends say “she’s never met a stranger”.

I’m giving the situation to the Lord and will trust Him with our future and see what happens next.

I completely understand!

I am like you and I know many people, like my mother, who cling to such a concept as your wife. Here is something important about this: There are genuine Christians in all legitimate communions. The more “social” and/or “fellowship” oriented churches will have outgoing and engaging personalities who put a large emphasis on these things. But they are people just like in the Catholic parishes. The Catholic Christians put more emphasis on Sacraments and holy prayer/reverence in their worship.

What I have learned, is that becoming close to Christians in a Catholic parish requires long lasting devotion. Not an immediate shallow friendship (not to accuse all protestants of being shallow at all!). But that relationships will come out of a genuine devotion to Jesus and our “coming together” in the public worship and prayer of Mass.

One thing I am learning about ourselves, is that we (as husband and wife) need to do a better job of this. We are close with our families, but not as much with our parish members. As a result, we need to find God parents for our son’s Baptism! It is forcing us to engage in fellowship with couples our age who we like.

I think Catholics can be a little more reserved when it comes to fellowshipping. I believe a lot has to do with so many cafeteria Cats in the Church. We need to be more engaging, but that does NOT mean abandoning the Sacraments! It means working at it where Jesus is. Not taking the easier path to a more “friendly” or “outgoung” crowd. Paul never compelled this kind of direction to his communities. He worked on converting their hearts and attitudes to change, not to go somewhere which was doing better in some areas.

 

[PRmerger]

So you present statistics, but have no idea where they come from and expect others to research what you claim is true?

I make no expectations whatsoever.

I simply offered a statistic from a rather reputable source re: the number of US Catholics who dissent from the CC re: birth control.

If you dispute that statistic, then, what is the** actual **percentage of US Catholics who dissent on this issue?

And please cite your source.

 

[Tomdstone]

I make no expectations whatsoever.

I simply offered a statistic from a rather reputable source re: the number of US Catholics who dissent from the CC re: birth control.

If you dispute that statistic, then, what is the** actual **percentage of US Catholics who dissent on this issue?

And please cite your source.

That wasn’t my question.