Why are you Protestant?

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Matthew 6:9-13
9.) "This, then, is how you should pray: "
‘Our Father in heaven, hallowed be thy name.
10.) your kingdom come, your will be done on earth as it is in heaven.
11.) Give us today our daily bread.
12.) Forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors.
13.) And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one.’
Yes I was very aware that this is located in the Bible. This we would consider an example, or an outline; to let us know the types of things to pray for: concerns, to thank God, and to tell him how awesome he is. I do not believe that we were meant to recite it word for word, or even to make our own version of it to recite form memory.
The Lord wants us to bring to him our personal concerns and thanks, not some recited prayer which he taught to us as an example of prayer.
 
Yes I was very aware that this is located in the Bible. This we would consider an example, or an outline; to let us know the types of things to pray for: concerns, to thank God, and to tell him how awesome he is. I do not believe that we were meant to recite it word for word, or even to make our own version of it to recite form memory.
The Lord wants us to bring to him our personal concerns and thanks, not some recited prayer which he taught to us as an example of prayer.
Regardless of your interpretation, that’s not the debate, back on topic, tell me why you are Protestant? Or do you just want us to place you in the “because it’s not Catholic” consensus and leave it at that? This is about discussion, not debate, the two are different things entirely.
 
So, you are unwilling to debate with me in this thread?
Alright, then could you at least explain to me where the Bible mentions that any of these rituals in which you Catholics perform are necessary, or even helpful?

And, I am a little confused:
First you say " that’s not the debate, back on topic," then you say that it’s a discussion not a debate. So, it is a debate, and it’s not a debate. :confused:
 
I believe as a follower of Jesus Christ that we are to live our lives as Christ did when he walked our Earth. I do not believe that all that hail marry, Lord’s Prayer, cross over your heart, etc, is necessary at all. God wants us to live out a lifestyle that would resemble the “fruits of the spirit.” I don’t believe he calls us to practice all these rituals.

{Rituals are for pagans, not for Christians.} --And I strongly believe this. If you can give me Biblical references, or even where in the Bible that you would get the idea to practice all of these ritualistic (un-Biblical) traditions; I would love to read through it, thank-you. 🙂

What do you mean by “ritual” ? And what is wrong with ritual ? Aren’t the Biblical feasts - the Passover, the “breaking of bread” - rituals ?​

STM that words are getting in the way of meaning.
 
Yes I was very aware that this is located in the Bible. This we would consider an example, or an outline; to let us know the types of things to pray for: concerns, to thank God, and to tell him how awesome he is. I do not believe that we were meant to recite it word for word, or even to make our own version of it to recite form memory.
The Lord wants us to bring to him our personal concerns and thanks, not some recited prayer which he taught to us as an example of prayer.

“After this manner pray ye” could mean that the Prayer is an outline of prayer, or, that it gives us the very words and order in which to do so.​

 
I’ve recently found a way to round out my prayers by including 4 separate sections to it, or more so, covering 4 areas.

Adoration prayer, saying praises to God and showing your gratitude for him being him with his ways.

Prayer of Thanksgiving, where you express more gratitude and express a thanks for all he does for us and has in our lives and the lives of others.

Prayer of confession where you admit to your shortcomings and how we all fall short of his Glory.

Then the prayer of intersession, any requests, or the like.

We actually find all of these elements with the Lords Prayer, pretty cool huh?
 
**Originally Posted by mpjw2 **
sckcd…As a baptist I am sure you receive communion as a spiritual remembrance of our Lord’s sacrifice

In Catholic church, catholics believe the bread and wine are miraculously changed during mass to the body and blood of Jesus.

Another reason I am not catholic is I do not believe it.

So as you are offered communion in a catholic mass, the priest says to you “this is my body”

before taking the host tell the priest you are a born again christian

What do you believe he will do?

I wasn’t the one who said that in what you quoted. It was someone else who was saying it to me, so no biggie. 🙂
I’m so sorry!! 😊 Thanks for letting me know. I guess I was absorbed in my thoughts pondering the phrases “born again Christian” and “Bible believing Christian.”

Anna
 
Regardless of your interpretation, that’s not the debate, back on topic, tell me why you are Protestant? Or do you just want us to place you in the “because it’s not Catholic” consensus and leave it at that? This is about discussion, not debate, the two are different things entirely.
So, you are unwilling to debate with me in this thread?
Alright, then could you at least explain to me where the Bible mentions that any of these rituals in which you Catholics perform are necessary, or even helpful?

And, I am a little confused:
First you say " that’s not the debate, back on topic," then you say that it’s a discussion not a debate. So, it is a debate, and it’s not a debate. :confused:
Christ Imitator:

I think Prodigalson was just trying to keep the discussion on topic for this Thread: "Why are you Protestant?

If you are interested in debating/discussion whether or not certain things are “unnecessary rituals,” you could start a new Thread. That way, we can get back to the topic on this Thread. 🙂

We all digress. In fact, I think I digressed earlier. 😊 So, thanks Prodigalson for steering us back on track.

Christ Imitator: Would you comment on why you are Protestant? You could start with saying something like, "I am a Protestant, because I don’t believe in what appears to be unnecessary rituals in the Catholic Church. That would incorporate what you said above.

Anna
 
I believe as a follower of Jesus Christ that we are to live our lives as Christ did when he walked our Earth. I do not believe that all that hail marry, Lord’s Prayer, cross over your heart, etc, is necessary at all. God wants us to live out a lifestyle that would resemble the “fruits of the spirit.” I don’t believe he calls us to practice all these rituals.

{Rituals are for pagans, not for Christians.} --And I strongly believe this. If you can give me Biblical references, or even where in the Bible that you would get the idea to practice all of these ritualistic (un-Biblical) traditions; I would love to read through it, thank-you. 🙂
Do you not think Jesus gave the “Lord’s Prayer” while He walked the earth?

I agree that the Hail Mary was not used in Apostolic times. It did not become popular for about 1000 years It is entirely scriptural, though. I cannot understand why you would think otherwise. All of it comes from quotes directly from the NT,. 🤷

I never thought of prayer as “ritual” per se, but there is nothing at all wrong with ritual. If God had some objection to ritual, He would not have gone to such trouble to structure the ritual of Israel’s worship.

You also seem to be suffering from a misconception that all spiritual disciplines will be spelled out in the Bible.
 
Regardless of your interpretation, that’s not the debate, back on topic, tell me why you are Protestant? Or do you just want us to place you in the “because it’s not Catholic” consensus and leave it at that? This is about discussion, not debate, the two are different things entirely.
I think she is saying she is not Catholic because we use ritualized, unbiblical, pagan prayers.
 
Do you not think Jesus gave the “Lord’s Prayer” while He walked the earth?

I agree that the Hail Mary was not used in Apostolic times. It did not become popular for about 1000 years It is entirely scriptural, though. I cannot understand why you would think otherwise. All of it comes from quotes directly from the NT,. 🤷

I never thought of prayer as “ritual” per se, but there is nothing at all wrong with ritual. If God had some objection to ritual, He would not have gone to such trouble to structure the ritual of Israel’s worship.

You also seem to be suffering from a misconception that all spiritual disciplines will be spelled out in the Bible.
guanophore: I’m going off topic ( and so soon after I gave a speech on going off topic :D).

How did you find the time to post 15,000 times. Do you ever sleep? I’m really impressed. :clapping:

It’s 2:11 a.m. here. So, Goodnight All, :yawn:
Anna
 
I’ve recently found a way to round out my prayers by including 4 separate sections to it, or more so, covering 4 areas.

Adoration prayer, saying praises to God and showing your gratitude for him being him with his ways.

Prayer of Thanksgiving, where you express more gratitude and express a thanks for all he does for us and has in our lives and the lives of others.

Prayer of confession where you admit to your shortcomings and how we all fall short of his Glory.

Then the prayer of intersession, any requests, or the like.

We actually find all of these elements with the Lords Prayer, pretty cool huh?
The highest form of prayer is the Mass. It is the summit of our lives as Christians. In it the prayers of praise, thanksgiving, adoration and supplicaton reach their summit for it is Christ’s own offering and we are caught up in this offering of the Son to the Father.
And yes, fittingly, the Lord’s Prayer follows the doxology at Mass. 🙂

Scott Hahn wrote in the “The Lambs Supper”, that if you want to make a difference in the world, if you want to help bring an end to poverty and war, the first thing you should do is go to Mass.

Also, the differentiation of praise and thanksgiving centres on that aspect of God that we are addressing. We praise God for who He is, we thank God for what He has done.
 
So, you are unwilling to debate with me in this thread?
Alright, then could you at least explain to me where the Bible mentions that any of these rituals in which you Catholics perform are necessary, or even helpful?

And, I am a little confused:
First you say " that’s not the debate, back on topic," then you say that it’s a discussion not a debate. So, it is a debate, and it’s not a debate. :confused:
If no one is willing to spar with you, I offer my humble service.:tiphat:

So fire away. Let’s look at one ritual at a time. And the first one is…

Actually, let’s look at the Bible. That should be an interesting point of discussion. Why do you think that the Bible should be our unit of measure of what is and is not permissible?

Prodigalson, if you think this will derail the thread you can blast me and CI off to the other thread. 😃 Three, Two, One, we have ignition!
 
So, you are unwilling to debate with me in this thread?
Alright, then could you at least explain to me where the Bible mentions that any of these rituals in which you Catholics perform are necessary, or even helpful?

And, I am a little confused:
First you say " that’s not the debate, back on topic," then you say that it’s a discussion not a debate. So, it is a debate, and it’s not a debate. :confused:
You didn’t respond to this post:

Do you believe these verses?

Matthew 18

17If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector.

Luke 10
16"He who listens to you listens to me; he who rejects you rejects me; but he who rejects me rejects him who sent me."

John 20
21Again Jesus said, “Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you.” 22And with that he breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit. 23If you forgive anyone his sins, they are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven.”

1 Timothy 3
15if I am delayed, you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God’s household, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth.

2 Thes 2
15So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the teachings we passed on to you, whether by word of mouth or by letter.

Matthew 16

17Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven. 18And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it. 19I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.”
 
I am not sure what you are trying to teach me with these verses. 🤷

Here is just one that I will attempt to understand why you posted it:
15 So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the teachings we passed on to you, whether by word of mouth or by letter.
Are you saying that we are to believe that every tradition that is passed on (by word-of mouth, or letter) through Church history is really from God? Or that it’s something that makes us closer to God.

I simply don’t understand the reasoning behind the whole traditions thing. I asked one of my Catholic friends about it. He told me that he thinks that “Hail Mary’s” and confessing sins to a priest, and crossig over yourself with your hand are all ridiculous and unnecessary. But, he may just be a “bad catholic”?
From what I understand Christianity isn’t about all that stuff, it’s about having a relationship with the Lord. Practicing of traditions will not get me any closer to the Lord.
–At least, not that I am aware of?
17If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector.
Not sure what this one has to do with anything either? Jesus hung out with pagans and tax collectors. Also with prostitues and fishermen. Those are the people he was here for, not for the “religious” people; such as the pharases. I am not saying that Catholics on here are this way, but a lot of the Catholics that I know, all seem like pharases. They seem to think they are better than everyone else, and that prostitues, and homosexuals, and others can never go to Heaven. (If they repent, however, they are able to go to Heaven),
 
quote" but a lot of the Catholics that I know, all seem like pharases. They seem to think they are better than everyone else, and that prostitues, and homosexuals, and others can never go to Heaven. (If they repent, however, they are able to go to Heaven), quote"

Well, going to address something here for you, I don’t normally entertain troll posts, case in point with your frustration as to why nobody was giving you the time of day, that’s one of the ways we are supposed to react.

I have visted many churches, different denominations of Protestants included, and there are many members that only view it as a social club, and they think they are on their way to heaven because of their good deeds, for they love to pat themselves on the backs for what they have done. They wear really nice expensive clothes, “just like the pharisis”, they drive very expensive cars, they own grandiose homes, they are the epitome of affluence, success and are revered and respected in the community, for they follow the status quo. I then in the business world compete with large companies, they have giant, high end facilities, they have large staff members that wear really nice clothes, they drive fancy cars, they own nice homes, they think they are really going somwhere in life and are also respected in the business community.

Here is the reality to those types though. They surely are following the letter, but not the heart of the matter. They lack passion for what they believe in, for it’s all material and really makes no impact on the world. Once they are gone, all of their wealth turns to dust, once they are gone, nobody is going to sing their praises as to what they contributed to this world to help others, once they are gone, they are gone, over with, and they look back realizing how much in bondage they were for not getting down to basics, for thinking they are better then other people, and this world is almost better off without them. What I do in my world, in regards to religion, is show compassion and empathy, I show them there is a new way, a way the world doesn’t understand, and it so much more then they could ever imagine. What I do in the business world is produce works that even the best players with all of their might cannot compete with, and again, it’s because I have a lot of heart into it, I also have an edge they don’t, I have the All Mighty with me with this and all things, so when it comes to bidding, guess who ends up on top? When it comes to struggling through this failed economy, I don’t have to stress nearly as much with my low overhead, with making ridicoules payments just to support the stuff and staff I own. The friends I have are genuine, my faith and relationship with our Father, the Son, the Holy spirit is very real, and honoring Jesus’s Mother happens to be part of it, she also has taken a big roll in my life and it bugs me when people put her down, it’s taboo to put someones mother down, why on earth do people justify putting our Lords mother down is a total double standard.

At one time, I was like you, not wanting the ceremony, it was because I didn’t understand what it was about in the least, I had an idea, but it was because of my ignorance I didn’t give it the respect it’s due, or more so, what I learned as to what “really” was going on during it, has me in awe. From an outsiders perspective, they cannot possibly understand, they aren’t really expected to, but I can say, it is in no way what you imagine it to be in the least, and if you really wanted to know, you will educate yourself in this area on a formal basis, not trying to take a shortcut by thinking it can be done through some online forum.

Repentance plays a vital roll in salvation, it’s a way of us purging from ourselves the ways of the world, you cannot be part of two kingdoms, you have to pick a side, and if you get it, you really get it and are working from inside out, not the otherway around, you will find the world itself is foreign to your being, it’s spiritual poison, for we are followers of Christ, not the world, the two are at odds with each other, and it’s not about forcing ourselves into compliance, it’s getting out of his way and letting him live in you, and I feel you have experienced too often people with counterfeit faith, they may seem like they are in compliance, that they are getting it, but they are not being true to themselves, they are again, just trying to fit in and do not know what I’m talking about.

Those worldly people I mention, in the end, are very miserable. Their quality of life with all of the lavish luxuries do not give them peace of mind, their pats on the back and acceptance by the community is conditional, it’s not genuine in the least and if they don’t keep up that affluent front, that all goes away, again more slavery. Their big business mentality in the business world has them dying like flies at an early age due to the stress levels. Those are the fruits of the world, and the path you are going if you think you can re-create religion in your own image, for your’s is very flawed, all of ours are, it’s only through the loving Guidance of our Lord that we must follow, and adhering to his church makes it much easier then trying to reinvent the wheel. The thing is, I too tested and prodded, questioned and scruitinized, I stumbled a lot, yet when I reached the discovery of the truth, I find myself back to the church, for all of the work in this area has already been done, it has been refined through the ages, and there is no need for me to have to start from scratch, all I have to do is believe and educate myself from within it to gain the whole truth and get exactly to the meat and potatoes, to the point without having to use the trial and error approach, of which the latter is the path you currently walk.

I struggled a great deal, I even have the Holy Spirit as a teacher, I can’t imagine how hard it would be for one to try that path without him, I feel so sorry for anybody that try’s, . I just thank God he knew me before I even existed, and he has never abandoned me, for I may not always remain faithful, he always will be as well as his church.

I consider myself lucky to have my church, I get to learn from it, from the Holy Spirit and from the bible, having all three, not just one or two makes a world of difference, and I so wish you could understand my perspective, but alas, as Paul mentions in regards to milk and real food, you are not ready for the real food since you are still struggling with just milk and this is a pity, for there is so much more for you. The bottom line here, Google up all of your questions if you insist upon just using the internet to learn from, from there, if you have researched it all, come back here and ask your questions. I have a good feeling your list in that area will be dramatically shorter, and more so, will be educated, not based upon total and complete ignorance.
 
Thank you for your post. I suppose I will have to quit trying to learn about Catholicism on here, and will just have to teach people what I know on the Protestant side.
as Paul mentions in regards to milk and real food, you are not ready for the real food since you are still struggling with just milk and this is a pity,
I don’t believe that I am that uneducated about the Christian faith, and how I should be living out my life as a Christian. I may not know a lot about Catholocism, but, that’s not a huge issue. I will learn some about it by talking with Catholic friends from school, hopefully they will know at least some things that I do not. I will agree that there is a lot more that I have to learn about the Lord, but so does every other person on this Earth. Again, in regards to “milk and food” I believe that I am quite familiar with the “real food.”
I have visted many churches, different denominations of Protestants included, and there are many members that only view it as a social club, and they think they are on their way to heaven because of their good deeds, for they love to pat themselves on the backs for what they have done. They wear really nice expensive clothes, “just like the pharisis”, they drive very expensive cars, they own grandiose homes, they are the epitome of affluence, success and are revered and respected in the community, for they follow the status quo. I then in the business world compete with large companies, they have giant, high end facilities, they have large staff members that wear really nice clothes, they drive fancy cars, they own nice homes, they think they are really going somwhere in life and are also respected in the business community.
Sure. There are people from any religion, denomination, church that are like this. People seem to think that acting good, and doing good things is what God is all about; and that is far from the truth. Sure, he likes to see us being respectufl to others, but it’s about giving up some of the worldly possesions and giving in to what he has planned for our lives.
 
=Christ Imitator;5815112]I believe as a follower of Jesus Christ that we are to live our lives as Christ did when he walked our Earth. I do not believe that all that hail marry, Lord’s Prayer, cross over your heart, etc, is necessary at all. God wants us to live out a lifestyle that would resemble the “fruits of the spirit.” I don’t believe he calls us to practice all these rituals.
Where does He say we shouldn’t? Where does He say it is wrong for me to cross myself - which I do - in celebration of my triune baptism when the Trinity is invoked? Where does He say not to pray His prayer? Where does he say not to repeat words of scripture, such as “Hail Mary, full of Grace, the Lord is with you. Blessed are you among women, and the fruit of your womb, Jesus. Amen.”

Where does scripture call thses things, specifically, pagan? Could one say it is ritualistic to intentionally avoid saying or doing these things?
 
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