Why are you Protestant?

[prodigalson12]

I love to visit protestant services on a regular basis, they all have some aspects I find appealing, yet often, I wonder, how many of the people that attend here are of their particular denomination that defines this one specifically as theirs compared to another. What is it in particular you choose this one and not another, what defines it specifically, how knowledgeable are you about it, compared to another and this being the very reason you stick to just this one?

I also wonder, how many of the members have given the Catholic church a second thought, much less, explore what it’s about and truly know what it means to be a Catholic? I know the question if asked of me would produce many reasons for why I choose it over the protestant denominations, I also think, are the same things that were in place during the reformation, the same now? Do they apply to today’s times, and if not, is there a reason to remain outside of it still to this day? I feel there are many that attend, not really putting forth an understanding of the times that existed during the formation of their denomination, and in many cases, they are there only because they have not explored other avenues at all, it seems often, simply saying the word Catholic, all of a sudden, a stream of thought, largely misguided about the church raises several red flags, like it’s this big unapproachable church and is beyond their reach to even bother entertain dialog with people that practice their faith within it.

I’m curious to see the response to it here, and I guess, in my case, I’m not afraid to attend and fellowship with Protestants, at their places of worship, I just don’t see that happening very often at mine and I want to know why as well.

 

[Dietz]

This could be a long response, but the long and short of it comes down to theological convictions, namely the “5 solas” of the reformation (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_solas). I have given the Roman Catholic church some thought and have had friends convert to it, which really prompted me to investigate it. I looked at parts of the council of trent, and decided that it was in contradiction to what I believed the bible taught. And holding to ‘scripture alone’ as the ultimate authority, and not the church (protestant, Roman Catholic, Orthodox, or otherwise), I wouldn’t join a church that held the belief that there is any authority next to scripture. So that’s the big reason why I’m not Roman Catholic (there are others too, such as baptismal regeneration, and the liturgical use of images, that I reject). This also answers you question about what I think in terms of the state of things now as compared to the reformation. Those 5 solas are still points of disagreement, and if not all 5 certainly scripture alone and faith alone.

Now the question of why I am Presbyterian over other protestant denominations, is a really long conversation, but it again comes down to doctrine. In a nutshell, I think the Calvinistic/Reformed protestants (i.e. those who agree with the John Calvin’s writings, who aligned himself with church fathers such as St. Augustine and others (these would be presbyterians, reformed baptist, congregationalist, and some others)) are the closest to the scriptures and early church fathers. Primarily in the area of what is known as “the doctines of grace”, calvinism, or sometimes as it is known by the mnemonic device TULIP. For a brief explanation of this go to: monergism.com/directory/link_category/Doctrines-of-Grace/The-Five-Points-of-Calvinism/

So to answer your question about sticking to Presbyterians, the answer is no, as there are other denominations that have close enough doctrine, as I listed above.

Now concerning your last question about protestants attending a Roman Catholic mass, there are a number of reasons why it would be avoided (mostly theological). For me, I went with my roommate (he’s Roman Catholic) to the Easter Vigil this past Easter, and he came with me to my church Easter Sunday. So speaking from that experience, I’ll give you 2 reasons I would really avoid going back. I think it is a violation of the second commandment to use images in worship, and to have any images at all representing God, because God is a jealous God. So with crucifixes all over and paintings of Christ, and all of that, I was a little bit in shock. Also, the Roman Catholic understanding of the Lord’s Supper is so different from protestants that both would exclude each other from the table, so this would stop most protestants from going to mass.

I hope that helps!

 

[prodigalson12]

Dietz, Thank you so much for responding, your reply was eloquent.

I’d like to know more about what you mean along how we as Catholics would differ from your Presbyterian perspective along the last supper, elaboration along the differences here would be invaluable.

With the imagery, often are taken in the context of Pagan idolatry, yet our persepctive about them is strictly adoration, which clearly are two separate perspectives. Never in our faith does an image or statue become it’s own entity, it’s only representative of a person or deity, in the same manner as what is put down in print within scripture. Different ways to convey the same information, or in simpler terms, a stickie stuck to the front door of the refrigerator…

I pray “at” Mary’s shrine pretty regularly these days, it’s a secluded peacful place, her statue looks nice, kind of sad, but makes for not only nice decoration, it reminds me of our Lords mother, and I feel her presence is around, regardless if I’m there or not, just as an example. Do you understand what I’m saying along this area?

 

[njackson88]

This could be a long response, but the long and short of it comes down to theological convictions, namely the “5 solas” of the reformation (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_solas). I have given the Roman Catholic church some thought and have had friends convert to it, which really prompted me to investigate it. I looked at parts of the council of trent, and decided that it was in contradiction to what I believed the bible taught. And holding to ‘scripture alone’ as the ultimate authority, and not the church (protestant, Roman Catholic, Orthodox, or otherwise), I wouldn’t join a church that held the belief that there is any authority next to scripture. So that’s the big reason why I’m not Roman Catholic (there are others too, such as baptismal regeneration, and the liturgical use of images, that I reject). This also answers you question about what I think in terms of the state of things now as compared to the reformation. Those 5 solas are still points of disagreement, and if not all 5 certainly scripture alone and faith alone.

Now the question of why I am Presbyterian over other protestant denominations, is a really long conversation, but it again comes down to doctrine. In a nutshell, I think the Calvinistic/Reformed protestants (i.e. those who agree with the John Calvin’s writings, who aligned himself with church fathers such as St. Augustine and others (these would be presbyterians, reformed baptist, congregationalist, and some others)) are the closest to the scriptures and early church fathers. Primarily in the area of what is known as “the doctines of grace”, calvinism, or sometimes as it is known by the mnemonic device TULIP. For a brief explanation of this go to: monergism.com/directory/link_category/Doctrines-of-Grace/The-Five-Points-of-Calvinism/

So to answer your question about sticking to Presbyterians, the answer is no, as there are other denominations that have close enough doctrine, as I listed above.

Now concerning your last question about protestants attending a Roman Catholic mass, there are a number of reasons why it would be avoided (mostly theological). For me, I went with my roommate (he’s Roman Catholic) to the Easter Vigil this past Easter, and he came with me to my church Easter Sunday. So speaking from that experience, I’ll give you 2 reasons I would really avoid going back. I think it is a violation of the second commandment to use images in worship, and to have any images at all representing God, because God is a jealous God. So with crucifixes all over and paintings of Christ, and all of that, I was a little bit in shock. Also, the Roman Catholic understanding of the Lord’s Supper is so different from protestants that both would exclude each other from the table, so this would stop most protestants from going to mass.

I hope that helps!

If you would not mind I would like to ask you a couple questions. You can either post them here or private message me. One concerning sola scriptura what did the early Christians use before the new testament was put into a canon. 2. Who are the ones who put the canon together. 3. Where in the Bible does it say that the bible is the sole source of authority. 4. Why in James does it say we are saved by works and not by faith alone?
Thank you for your response

 

[2nd_Adam]

I love to visit protestant services on a regular basis, they all have some aspects I find appealing, yet often, I wonder, how many of the people that attend here are of their particular denomination that defines this one specifically as theirs compared to another. What is it in particular you choose this one and not another, what defines it specifically, how knowledgeable are you about it, compared to another and this being the very reason you stick to just this one?

I also wonder, how many of the members have given the Catholic church a second thought, much less, explore what it’s about and truly know what it means to be a Catholic? I know the question if asked of me would produce many reasons for why I choose it over the protestant denominations, I also think, are the same things that were in place during the reformation, the same now? Do they apply to today’s times, and if not, is there a reason to remain outside of it still to this day? I feel there are many that attend, not really putting forth an understanding of the times that existed during the formation of their denomination, and in many cases, they are there only because they have not explored other avenues at all, it seems often, simply saying the word Catholic, all of a sudden, a stream of thought, largely misguided about the church raises several red flags, like it’s this big unapproachable church and is beyond their reach to even bother entertain dialog with people that practice their faith within it.

I’m curious to see the response to it here, and I guess, in my case, I’m not afraid to attend and fellowship with Protestants, at their places of worship, I just don’t see that happening very often at mine and I want to know why as well.

**Why am I Protestant? **

Because of the gospel of God’s grace about His Son.

The Righteous Shall Live by Faith

For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith for faith, as it is written, “The righteous shall live by faith.” - Paul

The true bibilical gospel which saves and transforms sinners to the image of Jesus Christ has justification by faith alone as the truth of the gospel. Please note that Pope Benedict acknowledges justification by faith alone within his own understanding of this truth. If you believe if your position before God is based on your personal good works, then you are outside of orthodox Christianity and biblical Christianity.

 

[Publisher]

I love to visit protestant services on a regular basis, they all have some aspects I find appealing, yet often, I wonder, how many of the people that attend here are of their particular denomination that defines this one specifically as theirs compared to another. What is it in particular you choose this one and not another, what defines it specifically, how knowledgeable are you about it, compared to another and this being the very reason you stick to just this one?

I also wonder, how many of the members have given the Catholic church a second thought, much less, explore what it’s about and truly know what it means to be a Catholic? I know the question if asked of me would produce many reasons for why I choose it over the protestant denominations, I also think, are the same things that were in place during the reformation, the same now? Do they apply to today’s times, and if not, is there a reason to remain outside of it still to this day? I feel there are many that attend, not really putting forth an understanding of the times that existed during the formation of their denomination, and in many cases, they are there only because they have not explored other avenues at all, it seems often, simply saying the word Catholic, all of a sudden, a stream of thought, largely misguided about the church raises several red flags, like it’s this big unapproachable church and is beyond their reach to even bother entertain dialog with people that practice their faith within it.

I’m curious to see the response to it here, and I guess, in my case, I’m not afraid to attend and fellowship with Protestants, at their places of worship, I just don’t see that happening very often at mine and I want to know why as well.

I am Protestant by birth…I am a “convinced” Quaker by choice.

The message of Friends is that God is a Present Reality. There is “that of God”, “Light Within”, “The Seed of God” within each of us. This Light guides each man or woman to faith if answered and followed.

I am a Friend because of their vision of new life in Christ. His life and work freed us from the “works of the Law”, he opened the Way for us to experience direct access to God as a Living Reality in our lives, without the requirements of rites and rituals performed for us by another. Each of us is priest and share in the Priesthood of Christ. No religious rite or ritual in and of itself bestows “grace”…grace is a gift from God to all. There is no “washing” or “sacred meal” or “special anointings” performed by another on our behalf. We need no priest, minister, book, ritual, rites or recitings to have access to the Life of Christ in our lives. Each of us can know the Truth experientially. It needs not be mediated for us by another man or woman for us or in our stead. No one stands “in the place of Christ” for us, we have access to God ourselves.

I have explored other faith traditions, but found them lacking…each other tradition told me I needed to perform some ritual or have it performed for me by another acting on God’s behalf…why have a representative of God when God Himself is available?

This is why I am a Friend.

 

[Departed_Light]

Which two mighty Powers have, as I was going to tell you, been engaged in a most obstinate War for six and thirty Moons past. It began upon the following Occasion. It is allowed on all Hands, that the primitive way of breaking Eggs, before we eat them, was upon the larger End: But his present Majesty’s Grand-father, while he was a Boy, going to eat an Egg, and breaking it according to the ancient Practice, happened to cut one of his Fingers. Whereupon the Emperor his Father published an Edict, commanding all his Subjects, upon great Penaltys, to break the smaller End of their Eggs. The People so highly resented this Law, that our Histories tell us there have been six Rebellions raised on that account; wherein one Emperor lost his Life, and another his Crown. These civil Commotions were constantly fomented by the Monarchs of Blefuscu; and when they were quelled, the Exiles always fled for Refuge to that Empire. It is computed, that eleven thousand Persons have, at several times, suffered Death, rather than submit to break their Eggs at the smaller End. Many hundred large Volumes have been published upon this Controversy: But the books of the Big-Endians have been long forbidden, and the whole Party rendered incapable by Law of holding Employments. During the Course of these Troubles, the Emperors of Blefuscu did frequently expostulate by their Ambassadors, accusing us of making a Schism in Religion, by offending against a fundamental Doctrine of our great Prophet Lustrog, in the fifty-fourth Chapter of the Brundrecal (which is their Alcoran.) This, however, is thought to be a meer Strain upon the Text: For the Words are these: That all true Believers shall break their Eggs at the convenient End: and which is the convenient End, seems, in my humble Opinion, to be left to every Man’s Conscience, or at least in the power of the Chief Magistrate to determine.

 

[Justy90]

I love to visit protestant services on a regular basis, they all have some aspects I find appealing, yet often, I wonder, how many of the people that attend here are of their particular denomination that defines this one specifically as theirs compared to another. What is it in particular you choose this one and not another, what defines it specifically, how knowledgeable are you about it, compared to another and this being the very reason you stick to just this one?

I also wonder, how many of the members have given the Catholic church a second thought, much less, explore what it’s about and truly know what it means to be a Catholic? I know the question if asked of me would produce many reasons for why I choose it over the protestant denominations, I also think, are the same things that were in place during the reformation, the same now? Do they apply to today’s times, and if not, is there a reason to remain outside of it still to this day? I feel there are many that attend, not really putting forth an understanding of the times that existed during the formation of their denomination, and in many cases, they are there only because they have not explored other avenues at all, it seems often, simply saying the word Catholic, all of a sudden, a stream of thought, largely misguided about the church raises several red flags, like it’s this big unapproachable church and is beyond their reach to even bother entertain dialog with people that practice their faith within it.

I’m curious to see the response to it here, and I guess, in my case, I’m not afraid to attend and fellowship with Protestants, at their places of worship, I just don’t see that happening very often at mine and I want to know why as well.

I’m not just a Protestant of any kind. I’m of the church who has kept sacred the 7 Sacrements which date all the way back to the Apostles and who was the church who attempted to keep all of what was good, wholesome and proper in tradition while screening out what was not useful, excessive and not appropriate for Christian worship.

 

[NotTooSmart]

Reason 1 is that I do not have a Catholic bone in my body. I was brought up and raised a Methodist. I was converted through a local Charismatic Pentecostal church.

Reason 2 is that I do not believe Catholic/Orthodox theology. If I were to become convinced that either the Catholic or Orthodox churches is in fact exclusively the the church of Jesus Christ (everybody else being of inferior status), then it would logically follow that your theology is correct. However, I do not believe that either denomination is exclusively the church. Instead I believe that when the Lord Jesus Christ looks at His Church, that He is not looking at a denomination, and instead is looking at all who love Him and have faith in Him.

Reason 3 is that I am reasonably happy in my current church, imperfect as it may be. We do a reasonably good job at spreading the gospel of Jesus Christ in our community and throughout the world. We do a reasonably good job at enabling Christians to grow in Jesus Christ. I do not have any biggie major disagreements with it that would motivate me to seek another fellowship in my community.

 

[mpjw2]

I am Protestant by birth…I am a “convinced” Quaker by choice.

The message of Friends is that God is a Present Reality. There is “that of God”, “Light Within”, “The Seed of God” within each of us. This Light guides each man or woman to faith if answered and followed.

I am a Friend because of their vision of new life in Christ. His life and work freed us from the “works of the Law”, he opened the Way for us to experience direct access to God as a Living Reality in our lives, without the requirements of rites and rituals performed for us by another. Each of us is priest and share in the Priesthood of Christ. No religious rite or ritual in and of itself bestows “grace”…grace is a gift from God to all. There is no “washing” or “sacred meal” or “special anointings” performed by another on our behalf. We need no priest, minister, book, ritual, rites or recitings to have access to the Life of Christ in our lives. Each of us can know the Truth experientially. It needs not be mediated for us by another man or woman for us or in our stead. No one stands “in the place of Christ” for us, we have access to God ourselves.

I have explored other faith traditions, but found them lacking…each other tradition told me I needed to perform some ritual or have it performed for me by another acting on God’s behalf…why have a representative of God when God Himself is available?

This is why I am a Friend.

wow publisher well said

why should I go to a place of worship that does not believe every word of what publisher said here?

 

[mpjw2]

Reason 1 is that I do not have a Catholic bone in my body. I was brought up and raised a Methodist. I was converted through a local Charismatic Pentecostal church.

Reason 2 is that I do not believe Catholic/Orthodox theology. If I were to become convinced that either the Catholic or Orthodox churches is in fact exclusively the the church of Jesus Christ (everybody else being of inferior status), then it would logically follow that your theology is correct. However, I do not believe that either denomination is exclusively the church. Instead I believe that when the Lord Jesus Christ looks at His Church, that He is not looking at a denomination, and instead is looking at all who love Him and have faith in Him.

Reason 3 is that I am reasonably happy in my current church, imperfect as it may be. We do a reasonably good job at spreading the gospel of Jesus Christ in our community and throughout the world. We do a reasonably good job at enabling Christians to grow in Jesus Christ. I do not have any biggie major disagreements with it that would motivate me to seek another fellowship in my community.

not too smart you also took the words out of my mouth

I agree with you 100%

God bless

 

[Harpazo]

Reason 1 is that I do not have a Catholic bone in my body. I was brought up and raised a Methodist. I was converted through a local Charismatic Pentecostal church.

Reason 2 is that I do not believe Catholic/Orthodox theology. If I were to become convinced that either the Catholic or Orthodox churches is in fact exclusively the the church of Jesus Christ (everybody else being of inferior status), then it would logically follow that your theology is correct. However, I do not believe that either denomination is exclusively the church. Instead I believe that when the Lord Jesus Christ looks at His Church, that He is not looking at a denomination, and instead is looking at all who love Him and have faith in Him.

Reason 3 is that I am reasonably happy in my current church, imperfect as it may be. We do a reasonably good job at spreading the gospel of Jesus Christ in our community and throughout the world. We do a reasonably good job at enabling Christians to grow in Jesus Christ. I do not have any biggie major disagreements with it that would motivate me to seek another fellowship in my community.

Have you read “Preaching Another Christ: An Orthodox View of Evangelicalism”? It’s a rather short read and certainly an eye-opener. The author makes the case that Evangelicals preach a different Christ from the one that Orthodox worship. I recommend it.

In Christ,
Andrew

 

[mpjw2]

If you would not mind I would like to ask you a couple questions. You can either post them here or private message me. One concerning sola scriptura what did the early Christians use before the new testament was put into a canon. 2. Who are the ones who put the canon together. 3. Where in the Bible does it say that the bible is the sole source of authority. 4. Why in James does it say we are saved by works and not by faith alone?
Thank you for your response

Hi, njackson

I believe my answer to your 4th question will answer the other 3.
the bible does say faith without works is dead

bible also says,

It is by grace you have been saved through faith…not by works

at first ssight seems thee bible contradicts itself

no it does not

works without faith is dead also

you can come across the best person in the world, the most generous, everybody’s best friend, never in his life stole, killed, cursed God’s name, dishonered his parents etc…

and when he dies he did having rejected the gospel of Jesus when his christian friend reminded him as he was on his death bed.

where do you believe this man wound up…

heaven or hell?

on the other hand had he accepted (work) the gospel of Jesus on his death bed he wpuld have done so because he first had faith his friend was telling the truth. before he died he repented and confessed of his sin of rejecting Jesus.

where do you believe that man will be after he died

heaven or hell

we are saved by faith alone, the works we do is because of the faith we have in him.

if we say we have faith and keep on doing what we have been doing before we found faith in Jesus, do we really have faith in the first place.

I just hit the lottery, send me your address so I can send you a share of the prize.

you may believe I won the lottery and possibly believe and say you have faith that I will share my prize with you.

but until you send me your address your faith without works is dead.

why I am not catholic

Romans 6:23

Bible tells us we are all going to hell because of our sin

in the same verse it tells us God has a prize(gift) for all of us so that we do not have to go to hell because of our sin and His gift is Eternal Life in heaven

I want His gift don’t you?

how do we claim it?

by faith and then exercise that faith by placing our trust in Him that He is telling us the truth and believing in Jesus as our Lord and Savior

I realize catholics do not believe this verse as I do

thats one reason I am not catholic

God bless

hope that helped

 

[NotTooSmart]

Have you read “Preaching Another Christ: An Orthodox View of Evangelicalism”? It’s a rather short read and certainly an eye-opener. The author makes the case that Evangelicals preach a different Christ from the one that Orthodox worship. I recommend it.

In Christ,
Andrew

Well, I can’t speak for the Orthodox, but I worship the Jesus that was born of Virgin Mary, suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, dead, and buried, and on the third day rose again. I also worship the Jesus who is the second person of the triune God, the Son of God and God the Son.

If the Orthodox worship this very same Jesus, then they do worship same Jesus Christ that I worship.

 

[mpjw2]

Well, I can’t speak for the Orthodox, but I worship the Jesus that was born of Virgin Mary, suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, dead, and buried, and on the third day rose again. I also worship the Jesus who is the second person of the triune God, the Son of God and God the Son.

If the Orthodox worship this very same Jesus, then they do worship same Jesus Christ that I worship.

not too smart, I worship your Jesus too

 

[James1982]

The short answer is I was born into a rather liberal protestant denomination, then married into a conservative Lutheran synod. My grandparents were Catholic until they went congregationalist and took my mom along for the ride and have never looked back. My dad’s side of the family is mostly LCMS or ELCA.

Interestingly enough, my parents are now non-denominational evangelical (read: some weird variant of baptist). Mostly because they like the format of the services, I think.

I remain a WELS Lutheran to this day.

My vision of Lutheranism is that it is fundamentally a Catholic movement and that we are by definition Catholics who are just waiting for the rest of the Catholics to catch up with us on some theological issues so we can go back home. Not all Lutherans see things this way, and certainly standing up and saying that openly in my church would earn me some funny looks. But in my mind, scriptures dictate that the default should be unity and only with some continued justification should one remain independent from the ancient churches. So, we must continually check ourselves against them and engage in the decisionmaking process of whether continued division is justified.

I think if you went to an old-style Lutheran service, you would notice a lot of similarities to a Catholic mass. I have been to a couple Catholic services and find myself generally comfortable with the format; I find my ‘muscle memory’ of when to respond to things with an “and also with you,” etc., is pretty good based off my years with the old WELS Lutheran red hymnal. What is really embarrassing is when Catholics say the Lord’s Prayer (“our father”), they don’t say the last line that many protestants do, “and the power and glory are yours, forever and ever, amen.” So when I start to say that line and everybody else goes silent I get a couple looks and remember to shut up.

I continue to hold to the ideal of being a confessional Lutheran because my theology is closer to that than the current teachings of Roman Catholicism in several areas, despite my agreement with Roman Catholicism in other areas. For example, one issue keeping me from Roman Catholicism is the church’s teaching on birth control, which I find to be extreme and self-contradictory.

That being said, I don’t want to turn this thread into an argument over doctrine, especially birth control; I merely bring it up as an example of why I continue to be Lutheran instead of jumping into the tiber, because that is in essence what I understand the OP to be asking. It’s a relatively minor thing in the scheme of things, especially if one can agree on the larger frameworks that actually split the church in the 1500’s. But it is what it is, and until I am able to reconcile those types of things with my own understanding of what God’s will is, it would not be right to convert.

 

[Justy90]

not too smart, I worship your Jesus too

And I do as well.

 

[Justy90]

The short answer is I was born into a rather liberal protestant denomination, then married into a conservative Lutheran synod. My grandparents were Catholic until they went congregationalist and took my mom along for the ride and have never looked back. My dad’s side of the family is mostly LCMS or ELCA.

Interestingly enough, my parents are now non-denominational evangelical (read: some weird variant of baptist). Mostly because they like the format of the services, I think.

I remain a WELS Lutheran to this day.

My vision of Lutheranism is that it is fundamentally a Catholic movement and that we are by definition Catholics who are just waiting for the rest of the Catholics to catch up with us on some theological issues so we can go back home. Not all Lutherans see things this way, and certainly standing up and saying that openly in my church would earn me some funny looks. But in my mind, scriptures dictate that the default should be unity and only with some continued justification should one remain independent from the ancient churches. So, we must continually check ourselves against them and engage in the decisionmaking process of whether continued division is justified.

I think if you went to an old-style Lutheran service, you would notice a lot of similarities to a Catholic mass. I have been to a couple Catholic services and find myself generally comfortable with the format; I find my ‘muscle memory’ of when to respond to things with an “and also with you,” etc., is pretty good based off my years with the old WELS Lutheran red hymnal. What is really embarrassing is when Catholics say the Lord’s Prayer (“our father”), they don’t say the last line that many protestants do, “and the power and glory are yours, forever and ever, amen.” So when I start to say that line and everybody else goes silent I get a couple looks and remember to shut up.

I continue to hold to the ideal of being a confessional Lutheran because my theology is closer to that than the current teachings of Roman Catholicism in several areas, despite my agreement with Roman Catholicism in other areas. For example, one issue keeping me from Roman Catholicism is the church’s teaching on birth control, which I find to be extreme and self-contradictory.

That being said, I don’t want to turn this thread into an argument over doctrine, especially birth control; I merely bring it up as an example of why I continue to be Lutheran instead of jumping into the tiber, because that is in essence what I understand the OP to be asking. It’s a relatively minor thing in the scheme of things, especially if one can agree on the larger frameworks that actually split the church in the 1500’s. But it is what it is, and until I am able to reconcile those types of things with my own understanding of what God’s will is, it would not be right to convert.

Do WELS Lutherans cross themselves as do Anglicans?

 

[leopolis1]

Reason 2 is that I do not believe Catholic/Orthodox theology. If I were to become convinced that either the Catholic or Orthodox churches is in fact exclusively the the church of Jesus Christ (everybody else being of inferior status), then it would logically follow that your theology is correct. However, I do not believe that either denomination is exclusively the church. Instead I believe that when the Lord Jesus Christ looks at His Church, that He is not looking at a denomination, and instead is looking at all who love Him and have faith in Him.

Reason 3 is that I am reasonably happy in my current church, imperfect as it may be. We do a reasonably good job at spreading the gospel of Jesus Christ in our community and throughout the world. We do a reasonably good job at enabling Christians to grow in Jesus Christ. I do not have any biggie major disagreements with it that would motivate me to seek another fellowship in my community.

I believe in God who is logical and I also want to be logical, so:
the CC cannot be equally good as protestant denomitions,
priesthood cannot be equally good as no priesthood,
bread and wine cannot be equally good as Body and Blood, etc.
Yes, we are right and protestants are wrong. And if you want to be logical you have to believe that somebody is right and somebody else who believes in something different is wrong. And there’s nothing wrong in being logical

I’m glad you are happy But Jesus never said: “blessed be the happy” or “happy ones will inherit the kingdom of God”. Jesus needs those who are obedient. Unfortunatelly you are not abedient, you are separated from the mistical Body of Christ - His Church, you disobey His vicar, you have no Eucharist, no confession and absolution. It means you are lukewarm. Sorry brother, but it’s not what Jesus wants.

 

[James1982]

Do WELS Lutherans cross themselves as do Anglicans?

No, generally we don’t.