Why are you Protestant?

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I’m glad you are happy:) But Jesus never said: “blessed be the happy” or “happy ones will inherit the kingdom of God”. Jesus needs those who are obedient. Unfortunatelly you are not abedient, you are separated from the mistical Body of Christ - His Church, you disobey His vicar, you have no Eucharist, no confession and absolution. It means you are lukewarm. Sorry brother, but it’s not what Jesus wants.
And until Jesus tells me the same thing that you are saying, this will be just your opinion that I happen to disagree with.

But Jesus does not seem to be saying that to me. In fact I believe that Jesus is saying something totally different.

But you obviously do not want to hear that.
 
I believe in God who is logical and I also want to be logical, so:
the CC cannot be equally good as protestant denomitions,
priesthood cannot be equally good as no priesthood,
bread and wine cannot be equally good as Body and Blood, etc.
Yes, we are right and protestants are wrong. And if you want to be logical you have to believe that somebody is right and somebody else who believes in something different is wrong. And there’s nothing wrong in being logical:)

I’m glad you are happy:) But Jesus never said: “blessed be the happy” or “happy ones will inherit the kingdom of God”. Jesus needs those who are obedient. Unfortunatelly you are not abedient, you are separated from the mistical Body of Christ - His Church, you disobey His vicar, you have no Eucharist, no confession and absolution. It means you are lukewarm. Sorry brother, but it’s not what Jesus wants.
Wow, these are the kinds of comments that separate Christians rather than unite them. I am Lutheran and would dare say that many Catholics if they sat through a Lutheran service would be shocked, the services are probably 95% identical. I visited many churches and it was in the Lutheran Church where I most feel the gentle had of God on my shoulder and where I most felt as if I was at home. I pray that God gives leopolis a little more tolerance and provides a dictionary.:cool:
 
Wow, these are the kinds of comments that separate Christians rather than unite them. I am Lutheran and would dare say that many Catholics if they sat through a Lutheran service would be shocked, the services are probably 95% identical. I visited many churches and it was in the Lutheran Church where I most feel the gentle had of God on my shoulder and where I most felt as if I was at home. I pray that God gives leopolis a little more tolerance and provides a dictionary.:cool:
If you reject those sent by Jesus it wouldn’t matter if you are 99% similar in your services, they are not valid.

Jesus only started one Church.

He may accept your contrition given his mercy, but you are not where he wants you to be.
 
Why am I a Protestant? For the same reason Martin Luther was a Protestant. 🙂

Unless I am convicted by scripture and plain reason – I do not accept the authority of the popes and councils, for they have contradicted each other – my conscience is captive to the Word of God. I cannot and I will not recant anything for to go against conscience is neither right nor safe. God help me. Amen .

Martin Luther, at the Imperial Diet at Worms, 18 April 1521.
 
This could be a long response, but the long and short of it comes down to theological convictions, namely the “5 solas” of the reformation (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_solas).
You made me giggle probably out of my own ignorance.

I don’t get it…if something is “Sola” why would there be 5?

Doesn’t “Sola” refer to 1 and only?

Wouldn’t it be more correct to the call it 1 of 5 or 1/5 or 20% or .20? Why use the term “Sola” if it’s* really*** not **sola?
 
You made me giggle probably out of my own ignorance.

I don’t get it…if something is “Sola” why would there be 5?

Doesn’t “Sola” refer to 1 and only?

Wouldn’t it be more correct to the call it 1 of 5 or 1/5 or 20% or .20? Why use the term “Sola” if it’s* really*** not **sola?
You would think so. 🤷

I started a thread about this a few years ago, but never got an answer. Many Protestants want their 5 cakes and eat them, too.😛
 
Well, the point of this thread is not to debate between sides, it’s to clarify as to why one believes and attends their particular denomination, to get a feel for their own stance and to see how many are there, just because they have not explored other options. On a side note of it, to also help dispel the myths and misconceptions between our views, which in turn should bring us closer together, for we agree on the bulk of matters with faith in more areas then we disagree when the facts are put down on the table.

Now, with the strictly Sola scripture perspective. If this is to be the entire foundation of your faith, shouldn’t you have the entire scripture then? The protestant bibles originated from the Catholic cannon, how many protestants have read the rest of the books in the bible we as Catholics retained? Then ask yourself, why were they omitted with yours? There is also a common discussion as to the translations, and it seems that in many cases, it stops at the Greek, when it was originally Hebrew. With our orthodox brethren, we as Catholics should take note, their Eucharist is valid, so there is some deep rooted comradeship between them and the Catholic church in this area.

Going back to scripture, where Paul talks about others preaching a different Christ, I think he is referring to Muslim, current Jewish, and Mormon versions of Christ, where he clearly is not the same one we as Christians believe in.

With the poster that stated how protestants do not believe in confession, they in fact do, yet not in the same format and structure we as Catholics take it, and then going back to scripture, it does clearly state to confess to God and one another.
 
You would think so. 🤷

I started a thread about this a few years ago, but never got an answer. Many Protestants want their 5 cakes and eat them, too.😛
LOL… well I guess you are going to have to study the 5 solas of the Protestant Reformation which is really just 5 solas in one. It’s kind of like the doctrine of the Trinity.

fivesolas.com/5solas.htm

Please read the link and let me know what you think.
 
Why am I a Protestant? For the same reason Martin Luther was a Protestant. 🙂

Unless I am convicted by scripture and plain reason – I do not accept the authority of the popes and councils, for they have contradicted each other – my conscience is captive to the Word of God. I cannot and I will not recant anything for to go against conscience is neither right nor safe. God help me. Amen .

Martin Luther, at the Imperial Diet at Worms, 18 April 1521.
? for you, how do you use plain reason to explain where the Bible you have came from?

What did the early follower’s of Christ do without a Bible or any New Testament Scriptures as the books of the New Testament had not yet been written for several decades after Christ’s death, resurrection and ascension into heaven?

Why was it okay for those early Christians to NOT BELIEVE in Sola Scriptura since there was no way the could considering they did not have a New Testament to read? How is it now against plain reason for you to Not Believe in Sola Scriptura?

What Church did the human writers that God used to Author the books of the New Testament belong to?

What Church was it that decided officially which books would and would not be considered a part of the Bible? Now, we all know that it was the Catholic Church…but you don’t believe that, so how do you personally justify the books you use in your Bible? Why do you consider them part of Scripture?

Have you personally read through all of the Christian Writings from the 1st and 2nd Century to determine that whoever it was that placed those books in your Bible are actually the ones and the only ones which should be in there?

If you have not personally read through all of the Christian Writings from the 1st & 2nd Century, then what person or Church are you relying on? And why have you placed your trust in them to make this huge decision for you?

I got to tell you, after learning how the Bible came to be, I was so happy that I am able to trust the Catholic Church! The Catholic Church members wrote the Bible, compiled the Bible, preserved the Bible, reads the Bible daily in Masses to all who attend and shares the Bible with all people of all Nations from generation to generation.
But that’s me, I want to know about you - without relying on the Catholic Church?
 
You would think so. 🤷

I started a thread about this a few years ago, but never got an answer. Many Protestants want their 5 cakes and eat them, too.😛
Cake? I’m hungry and cake sounds good - well it’s really the icing I like 😛
 
? for you, how do you use plain reason to explain where the Bible you have came from?

What did the early follower’s of Christ do without a Bible or any New Testament Scriptures as the books of the New Testament had not yet been written for several decades after Christ’s death, resurrection and ascension into heaven?

Why was it okay for those early Christians to NOT BELIEVE in Sola Scriptura since there was no way the could considering they did not have a New Testament to read? How is it now against plain reason for you to Not Believe in Sola Scriptura?

What Church did the human writers that God used to Author the books of the New Testament belong to?

What Church was it that decided officially which books would and would not be considered a part of the Bible? Now, we all know that it was the Catholic Church…but you don’t believe that, so how do you personally justify the books you use in your Bible? Why do you consider them part of Scripture?

Have you personally read through all of the Christian Writings from the 1st and 2nd Century to determine that whoever it was that placed those books in your Bible are actually the ones and the only ones which should be in there?

If you have not personally read through all of the Christian Writings from the 1st & 2nd Century, then what person or Church are you relying on? And why have you placed your trust in them to make this huge decision for you?

I got to tell you, after learning how the Bible came to be, I was so happy that I am able to trust the Catholic Church! The Catholic Church members wrote the Bible, compiled the Bible, preserved the Bible, reads the Bible daily in Masses to all who attend and shares the Bible with all people of all Nations from generation to generation.
But that’s me, I want to know about you - without relying on the Catholic Church?
We are told in Scripture to trust in God, or to trust in Christ. I’m not sure if you can give me Scripture proofs that you are called to trust and rely on the Catholic Church. The Holy Bible is the Word of God which is closed to those without the Spirit of God.

It is written, “‘Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that comes from the mouth of God.’” - Jesus
 
We are told in Scripture to trust in God, or to trust in Christ. I’m not sure if you can give me Scripture proofs that you are called to trust and rely on the Catholic Church. The Holy Bible is the Word of God which is closed to those without the Spirit of God.

It is written, “‘Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that comes from the mouth of God.’” - Jesus
Matthew 18

17If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector.

Luke 10
16"He who listens to you listens to me; he who rejects you rejects me; but he who rejects me rejects him who sent me."

John 20
21Again Jesus said, “Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you.” 22And with that he breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit. 23If you forgive anyone his sins, they are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven.”

1 Timothy 3
15if I am delayed, you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God’s household, which is **the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth. **

2 Thes 2
15So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the teachings we passed on to you, whether by word of mouth or by letter.

Matthew 16

17Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven. 18And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it. 19I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.”
 
I’m a former fundamentalist who still connects with God through the Christian religion. I often visit a Catholic church to pray but most would not consider me Catholic if they talked to me. I practiced Catholicism for 5 years but find that you do not have much freedom of thought in the RC denomination. Mainstream Catholicism is quite fundamentalist in its own way and this kind of literalism tends to distort Christianity.
 
**My vision of Lutheranism is that it is fundamentally a Catholic movement and that we are by definition Catholics who are just waiting for the rest of the Catholics to catch up with us on some theological issues so we can go back home. ** Not all Lutherans see things this way, and certainly standing up and saying that openly in my church would earn me some funny looks. But in my mind, scriptures dictate that the default should be unity and only with some continued justification should one remain independent from the ancient churches. So, we must continually check ourselves against them and engage in the decision making process of whether continued division is justified.
What a fabulous statement!! I could not agree more. This is exactly what Lutherans are, or should be. May I borrow the bolded? 😃
So, we must continually check ourselves against them and engage in the decision making process of whether continued division is justifie
Exactly.

Jon
 
What a fabulous statement!! I could not agree more. This is exactly what Lutherans are, or should be. May I borrow the bolded? 😃

Exactly.

Jon
For the ecumenciall Lutherans. How can you unite with the Catholic Faith and still be Lutherarn in what Luther considered the most important article?

Volume Three — Article 4 Volume 3 | Archive | Home

The Importance of Justification by Faith
Selected from the writings of Martin Luther *

“This doctrine [justification by faith] is the head and the cornerstone. It alone begets, nourishes, builds, preserves, and defends the church of God; and without it the church of God cannot exist for one hour…. For no one who does not hold this article – or, to use Paul’s expression, this ‘sound doctrine’ (Titus 2:1) – is able to teach aright in the church or successfully to resist any adversary . . . this is the heel of the Seed that opposes the old serpent and crushes its head. That is why Satan, in turn, cannot but persecute it.”

“Whoever departs from the article of justification does not know God and is an idolater . . . For when this article has been taken away, nothing remains but error, hypocrisy, godlessness, and idolatry, although it may seem to be the height of truth, worship of God, holiness, etc.”

“If the article of justification is lost, all Christian doctrine is lost at the same time. And all the people in the world who do not hold to this justification are either Jews or Turks or papists or heretics; for there is no middle ground between these two righteousness: the active one of the Law and the passive one which comes from Christ. Therefore the man who strays from Christian righteousness must relapse into the active one, that is, since he has lost Christ, he must put his confidence in his own works.”

“When the article of justification has fallen, everything has fallen. Therefore it is necessary constantly to inculcate and impress it, as Moses says of his Law (Deut. 6:7); for it cannot be inculcated and urged enough or too much. Indeed, even though we learn it well and hold to it, yet there is no one who apprehends it perfectly or believes it with a full affection and heart. So very trickish is our flesh, fighting as it does against the obedience of the spirit.”

“The article of justification and of grace is the most delightful, and it alone makes a person a theologian and makes of a theologian a judge of the earth and of all affairs. Few there are, however, who have thought it through well and who teach it aright.”

“Of this article [justification] nothing may be yielded or conceded, though heaven and earth and whatever will not abide, fall to ruin; for ‘there is none other name under heaven given among men whereby we must be saved,’ says St. Peter (Acts 4:12); ‘and with His stripes we are healed’ (Is. 53:5). And on this article all that we teach and practice is based, against the pope, the devil, and the world. That is why we must be very certain of this doctrine and not doubt; otherwise all is lost, and the pope and the devil and all things gain the victory over us and are adjudged right.”

"The article of justification must be learned diligently. It alone can support us in the face of these countless offenses and can console us in all temptations and persecutions. For we see that it cannot be otherwise: the world is bound to be offended at the doctrine of godliness and to cry out constantly that nothing good comes of it, since ‘the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness unto him.’ "

“In short, if this article concerning Christ — the doctrine that we are justified and saved through Him alone and consider all apart from Him damned — is not professed, all resistance and restraint are at an end. Then there is, in fact, neither measure nor limit to any heresy and error.”

“There is this about the article of grace that if one diligently and sincerely remains loyal to it, it keeps one from falling into heresy and from undertaking anything against Christ or His Christendom. For with it comes the Holy Spirit, who enlightens the heart by it and keeps it in the true, certain understanding, so that it is able precisely and plainly to distinguish and judge all the other articles of faith and forcefully to sustain and defend them.”

“The papacy is shaken and shattered nowadays, not through these tumults of the sectaries but through the preaching of the article of justification, which has not only weakened the kingdom of Antichrist but has also till now sustained and defended us against its power.”
  • Selected from What Luther Says, an anthology compiled by Edwald M. Plass, Vol.2, pp.702-704, 715-718.

presenttruthmag.com/archive/III/3-4.htm
 
Have you read “Preaching Another Christ: An Orthodox View of Evangelicalism”? It’s a rather short read and certainly an eye-opener. The author makes the case that Evangelicals preach a different Christ from the one that Orthodox worship. I recommend it.

In Christ,
Andrew
Can you outline a few of the essential differences?
 
What a fabulous statement!! I could not agree more. This is exactly what Lutherans are, or should be. May I borrow the bolded? 😃

Exactly.

Jon
Feel free. If you want you can also re-word it so it’s not so much of a run-on sentence. 👍
 
=2nd Adam;5792714]For the ecumenciall Lutherans. How can you unite with the Catholic Faith and still be Lutherarn in what Luther considered the most important article?
For the ecumenical Lutherans. :rolleyes: I am LCMS, and James1982 is WELS. First time our two bodies have been thought of that way. But if you are speaking of us personally, I for one take it as a compliment.

Did either of us say we are uniting with Rome, which I believe is what you are asking?

The fact that we consider ourselves evangelical Catholic (as Luther did) probably does divide us in some ways from much of Protestantism. But James1982’s quote stands; we are obligated to reevaluate regularly whether or not our divisions in doctrine justify continued separation from the Bishop of Rome, in whom the councils placed jurisdiction over the west.

Jon

EDIT: Are you as willing to hop on board with Luther on the real presence?
 
We are told in Scripture to trust in God, or to trust in Christ. I’m not sure if you can give me Scripture proofs that you are called to trust and rely on the Catholic Church. The Holy Bible is the Word of God which is closed to those without the Spirit of God.

It is written, “‘Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that comes from the mouth of God.’” - Jesus
I really hope that you will answer each of the questions I posed to you. Based on your response, it appears you really have not thought through your position. You keep bring up Scripture; however, you have not been able to validate why you believe that the books that are in the Bible are Scripture.

Before you can base arguements on what only Scripture says, you first need to know and explain why you believe that the books in your Bible are considered Scripture.

Next you need to explain why it was alright for the earliest Christians to have had another “authority” besides the Bible, since the New Testament had not yet been written.

Finally, you need to explain why if the very ones who listened to Christ speak as well as those who were born after Christ’s Ascension, but died before any of the New Testament was written Could NOT Have BELIEVE IN THE BIBLE ALONE, considering there was only an Old Testament during those 30 or so years, and why you think that NOW-a-day Christians must believe in the Bible Alone/Sola Scriptura since quite clearly the early Christians did not and could not?

There are plenty of verses in the Bible which refer to Christians trusting in the Church, but there is no need to go there yet as you have not yet proved to me that you have any reason to trust in what you call the Bible since you don’t trust the Church who wrote it, you don’t trust the Church that complied it, you don’t trust the Church that preserved it, you don’t trust the Church that reads entire sections of it each and every day it it’s Faithful and finally you don’t trust in the Church that is continuing to give it to peoples of all nations. In my mind, if you don’t trust the Church, then there is NO WAY you can trust the Bible.

Prove me wrong! Answer each of my questions.
 
Matthew 18

17If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector.

Luke 10
16"He who listens to you listens to me; he who rejects you rejects me; but he who rejects me rejects him who sent me."

John 20
21Again Jesus said, “Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you.” 22And with that he breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit. 23If you forgive anyone his sins, they are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven.”

1 Timothy 3
15if I am delayed, you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God’s household, which is **the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth. **

2 Thes 2
15So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the teachings we passed on to you, whether by word of mouth or by letter.

Matthew 16

17Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven. 18And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it. 19I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.”
Great references!!!

Before any of us give anymore, let’s let these ones sink it. It may take awhile since it’s a hard concept for Protestants to take in…that the Bible, written by the Catholic Church, actually confirms the teachings / practices of the Catholic Church.
 
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